The Formatting Guidelines (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=481.0) is all nice, but I think they could need some improvement. Here's some ideas I had in mind, most of them are just clarifications:
Formatting Template:
-Maybe use that template Deku created. I think Bespinben got one. It looks great so I guess it could be used as a a template here. I think it got wider margins and a bit sized down page which seems useful as it can fit a 4 measure hyper measure which frequently is used.
-Also I think it might be a good idea to make it easier finding the template. As of now when it is just in regular text it can easily be missed. My suggestion is either a title like "Template" in bold or understroke, that will probably make it easier for people to find it. And also maybe write something like "with proper formatting", also might make more people use it.
-I think it would be nice with a duet template too (or two, one for 1 piano, and another for 2 pianos).
Title:
-Use official soundtrack titles if possible. If not use the most common title for the song.
Game Name:
-Use American (NTSC) game names as the game name. For games only released in Japan, use translated titles. If the titles differers between American (NTSC) and European (PAL) region, use the American (NTSC) titles.
Composer:
-Try to find the specific composer for the song you've arranged if there were multiple composer composing for a game. If you can find the one, name only that composer since he/she is the one who composed the song. If not, name all composers from the game.
-If the song is an arranged/remixed version of a previously composed song, both the composer of the original song and the arranger of the arranged version should be given credit. For example: Vampire Killer in Castlevania Harmony of Dissonance: Original composition by Satoe Terashima Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance arrangement by Michiru Yamane, and Piano arrangement by ...
Key Signature:
-If a song is atonal. Make the key signature as Open Key signature (no sharps or flats) but place a courtesy neutral at every neutral note. (don't know how necessary this is)
Clefs:
-Only use treble and bass clefs, octave clefs are not allowed.
URL:
-NSM's url: http://www.NinSheetMusic.org/ needs to be included. This goes just under the Copyright.
Duets:
-Duet for 1 piano: Should have "Primo" as first stave and "Secondo" as second stave followed by the abbreviations "I" and "II".
-Duet for 2 pianos: Should have "Piano 1" as the first stave and "Piano 2" as second stave followed with the abbreviations "Pno. 1" and "Pno. 2".
Pedal markings:
-Either write out using signs(Ped. and *) or using lines or using expressions(con ped. senza ped.) for a section or the entire song.
-Other pedals Una corda. and sostenuto are also welcomed if you feel they are befitting. Use "una corda" and "tre corde"/"tutte le corde" for notating the una corda pedal. And use Sost. Ped. and a pedal line, and also diamond-shaped note heads for the notes that are going to be sustained by the sostenuto pedal, for notating the sostenuto pedal.
Pages:
-Try reducing the amount of pages if possible, by resizing pages, fitting more systems on pages and using repeat marks.
Aesthetics:
-If you're using multiple layers make sure that they are beamed so that one layer is beamed upwards and the other one downwards.
-Try to avoid any type of collision if possible. Whether be by stems, beams, slurs, dynamics, expressions etc. This will make your arrangement look more aesthetically appealing.
Finger notation:
-It's not required but appreciated especially during technical parts of a song.
Playability:
-Keep this in mind when arranging. The arrangement must at least be playable, this means no too big intervals and no too fast runs and too big leaps. This doesn't stop your arrangement from being difficult, sometimes the song just happen to be so, but it has to at least be playable.
By that try keeping within an octave reach, and only use higher intervals such as 9ths and 10ths if necessary, you also have to be aware of the speed the big intervals are going to be played, if it's feasible.
When notating fast runs, it's important to be aware if the runs includes double-notes (thirds,fourths, sixths etc.).
If your unsure of your arrangement is playable or too fast, you can look up difficult pieces of Chopin, Liszt and other of classical composers to compare if it's as fast, or if it's too fast. If it's not as fast and technical as those pieces, then an advanced pianist should be able to play your arrangement.
It is almost always the case in two piano scores that each pianist has a copy of the duet arrangement, that way they see what the other part is doing.
This derives from the notation of piano+strings and other instruments (anything from concerti to a cello sonata for piano and cello ((Rachmaninoff and Chopin wrote one), and is common practice among many small ensembles (1-5 people, though some orchestras give each section a sectional score- the wind score for each flute, etc.).
OK, didn't know.
Planning to make a huge post about this once I get home.
Nice Tobbeh. I agree with everything you wrote!
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMFormatting Template: Maybe use that template Deku created. I think Bespinben got one. It looks great so I guess it could be used as a a template here.
What's wrong with the current template? I'm on mobile right now, but last time I checked it was fine.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMTitle:
Use official soundtrack titles if possible. If not use the most common title for the song.
Adding this clarification seems like a good idea.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMGame Name: Use English game names as the game name. For games only released in Japan, use translated titles. Games with different titles between NTSC and PAL region, these cases we'll be treated individually, but will probably use the most well-known game name.
We've always opted for the North American titles whenever possible. I guess like he last one its never been written down though.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMComposer: Try to find the specific composer for the song you've arranged if there were multiple composer composing for a game. If you can find the one, name only that composer since he/she is the one who composed the song. If not, name all composers from the game.
Another clarification, duly noted.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMIf the song is an arranged/remixed version of a previously composed song, both the composer of the original song and the arranger of the arranged version should be given credit. For example: Vampire Killer in Castlevania Harmony of Dissonance: Arranged by Michiru Yamane Original composition by Satoe Terashima, and Piano arrangement by ...
Yep, except that the composer name goes above the arrangers names.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMKey Signature: If a song is atonal. Make the key signature as C-major(no sharps or flats) but place a courtesy neutral at every neutral note.
Care to clarify? And when something is atonal, it's called being in "open key." I'd also prefer to say something like "put no sharps or flats in the key signature" than say it's in the key of C.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMClefs: Only use treble and bass clefs, not octave clefs.
Good idea. Noted.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMURL: NSM's url: http://www.NinSheetMusic.org/ needs to be included. This goes just under the Copyright.
This is already there, though I guess we could add the url to that section.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMOther Formatting Guidelines:
Multiple Layers: If you're using multiple layers make sure that they are beamed so that one layer is beamed upwards and the other one downwards.
That's another common one, good.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMDuets:
Duet for 1 piano: Should have "Primo" as first stave and "Secondo" as second stave followed by the abbreviations "I" and "II".
Duet for 2 pianos: Should have "Piano 1" as the first stave and "Piano 2" as second stave followed with the abbreviations "Pno. 1" and "Pno. 2.
Good, I'll add this to the duet section.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMPedal markings:
Either write out using signs(Ped. and *) or using lines or using expressions(con ped. senza ped.) for a section or the entire song.
Other pedals Una corda. and sostenuto are also welcomed if you feel they are befitting. Use "una corda" and "tre corde"/"tutte le corde" for notating the una corda pedal. And use Sost. Ped. and a pedal line, and also diamond-shaped note heads for the notes that are going to be sustained by the sostenuto pedal, for notating the sostenuto pedal.
I like the simplicity of the pedal section that already exists, and this seems to just elaborate on the first bullet point. Perhaps we could add this in a spoiler tag with it?
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMAesthetics: Try to avoid any type of collision if possible. Whether be by stems,beams,slurs, dynamics, expressions etc. This will make your arrangement look more aesthetically appealing.
A bit too common-sense-y for me. This is so obvious it should be a given.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMExpressions: Feel free to write any expressions you feel are necessary, either in English or by using Italian musical expressions.
I could see this working well added to the "Articulations and Slur/Phrase Markings" section.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMFinger notation: It's not required but appreciated especially during technical parts of a song.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 27, 2015, 09:28:10 PMI could see this working well added to the "Articulations and Slur/Phrase Markings" section.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMPlayability: Keep this in mind when arranging. The arrangement must at least be playable, this means no too big intervals and no too fast runs and too big leaps. This doesn't stop your arrangement from being difficult, sometimes the song just happen to be so, but it has to at least be playable.
By that try keeping within an octave reach, and only use higher intervals such as 9ths and 10ths if necessary, you also have to be aware of the speed the big intervals are going to be played, if it's feasible.
When notating fast runs, it's important to be aware if the runs includes double-notes(thirds,fourths, sixths etc.). If your unsure of your arrangement is playable or too fast, you can look up difficult pieces of Chopin, Liszt and other of classical composers to compare if it's as fast, or if it's too fast. If it's not as fast and technical as those pieces, then an advanced pianist should be able to play your arrangement.
Playability is an extremely sensitive topic that would either need a much better text wall written about it or nothing at all. It's something that kind of has to be learned, and it would be hard to summarize it all into something like this. Hell, it'd be easier to buy a book on the subject, lol.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 03:55:56 PMOther thoughts: maybe be more clear about what is required and what is optional. Such as a metronome mark is required but a text such as presto is optional.
I thought that was already pretty clear:
Quote from: G-Han on April 28, 2008, 05:26:18 AM(5) Metronome Marking:
- You have to include one of these with your sheet. It must include "note value = number" like in the picture.
- You can also add a musical direction (eg Presto) if you wish but don't substitute a Metronome Marking for a musical direction.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 27, 2015, 09:28:10 PMWhat's wrong with the current template? I'm on mobile right now, but last time I checked it was fine.
Nothing technically wrong, but there's a little too much space everywhere (between systems, in the margins...) and also I think people wanted the Deku template at least as an option.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 27, 2015, 09:28:10 PMPlayability is an extremely sensitive topic that would either need a much better text wall written about it or nothing at all. It's something that kind of has to be learned, and it would be hard to summarize it all into something like this. Hell, it'd be easier to buy a book on the subject, lol.
We don't have to go into specifics but just a small note saying "must be playable" would be nice just in case new people didn't know.
Also someone make a new picture it looks like the old one's link expired or something
Pics for the guidelines and the submission guidelines are on my list of things to do. I'll try to get it done tomorrow.
Another thing I missed in the OP:
Pages: try reducing the amount of pages if possible, by using repeats and having more systems per page. For example having 5 systems on page 2 instead of 4 systems on page 2 and 1 on page 3.
Quote from: Latios212 on July 27, 2015, 09:34:48 PMNothing technically wrong, but there's a little too much space everywhere (between systems, in the margins...) and also I think people wanted the Deku template at least as an option.
I agree. That's why I quit using the old one.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 27, 2015, 10:51:06 PMAnother thing I missed in the OP:
Pages: try reducing the amount of pages if possible, by using repeats and having more systems per page. For example having 5 systems on page 2 instead of 4 systems on page 2 and 1 on page 3.
Maybe all of these kind of suggestions can go under a "Tips" section.
yet another thing I missed:
All arrangements being submitted to site must have been made in a Finale program. A bit obvious, but so that people know.
Here's a thought.
For space reasons, if there are more than, say, three or four composers in the game, list two and then write "et. al", as you might in a citation if you are citing a book with multiple authors for an essay.
Quote from: Tobbeh99 on July 30, 2015, 09:47:41 AMAll arrangements being submitted to site must have been made in a Finale program. A bit obvious, but so that people know.
This is unfair to the people who can't afford Finale, or wound up with Sibelius through some strange twist of fate.
Although, to tell the truth, Finale sheets look much more professional than Musescore or Sibelius sheets. Maybe just require the PDFs to be made from the .mus file?
Tobbeh said "a Finale program," not the program, Finale (totally confusing nomenclature, btw). This would include Notepad, which is free.
Quote from: Maelstrom on July 30, 2015, 11:25:40 AMThis is unfair to the people who can't afford Finale, or wound up with Sibelius through some strange twist of fate.
Although, to tell the truth, Finale sheets look much more professional than Musescore or Sibelius sheets. Maybe just require the PDFs to be made from the .mus file?
Isn't this already the standard?? And if I'm not mistaken you can export XML-files and finish of the work in notepad. I wanted to add this because I just looked at a submission that, as he claims it, had followed the formatting guidelines, but the sheet look nothing like how it's supposed to look, the size and style on the title and etc. And he said that he uses noteflight, so he had probably formatted it according to the formatting guidelines but in noteflight.
I've also seen someone use a Siblius sheet, so this is just to get people on the right track from the start. Maybe I expressed myself wrongly in my previous comment I meant that the formatting and exporting must be done from a Finale program. Am right about that?
Quote from: Brawler4Ever on July 30, 2015, 11:39:16 AMTobbeh said "a Finale program," not the program, Finale (totally confusing nomenclature, btw). This would include Notepad, which is free.
yes this exactly what I meant. Any Finale program: Notepad, Songwriter, Printmusic, Full Version.
Personally I find the idea we'd even need an .mus at this point in the site's progression is a bit antiquated, considering we post both PDF and midi files for every arrangement. I'm curious as to what the download rates on the .mus files versus the pdf and midi files are. I don't know, what's the argument for putting the .mus files on the site again?
I think mus. are great, I used them a lot when I look at sheets. It's great because you can both hear and follow the sheet at the same time!
Quote from: MaestroUGC on July 30, 2015, 11:46:48 AMI don't know, what's the argument for putting the .mus files on the site again?
Well for one thing it helps to watch the sheet scroll by itself while the sound plays instead of opening up both the midi and pdf and trying to follow along. (ninja'd by tobbeh)
Also, it makes the files readily available for editing and replacement around here - if we need to fix something, we just click the link on site and make a couple of edits instead of searching for them wherever else we would store them.
Oh I'm not doubting the behind the scenes functionality of them, but I'm just wondering how many of our visitors (i.e. not any of us here) actually use those files.
For what it's worth, yes, I did use the .mus files before I joined the forums. If nothing else, Notepad does playback just fine.
Quote from: Latios212 on July 30, 2015, 11:55:59 AMFor what it's worth, yes, I did use the .mus files before I joined the forums. If nothing else, Notepad does playback just fine.
same here.
Notepad does not count as a valid music notation software. No one should be forced to use that instead of something with actual features just because they want to submit something to the site.
MaestroBespinFan has a word to say about this:
[1:05:19 PM] Bespinben: I'm now not the only one who thinks Finale-centricism is hogwash. Thank you.
[1:06:47 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally it was outdated once PDFs became a requirement.
[1:07:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Sure it helps create a uniform standard in the creation process.
[1:07:36 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: But I seriously doubt most passerbys have Finale to make the MUS something they want.
[1:08:01 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Most of our intended audience are kids/teens between 9-16.
[1:08:23 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Who are just looking for an easy resource for their favorite VG tunes to show off to their friends.
[1:08:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Not exactly the kind of demographic who would even have Finale.
[1:09:13 PM] Bespinben: If we allow other programs, the less I have to deal with Notepad junk in submissions
[1:09:35 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And even if a few of them had Notepad (mind you, that's maybe 10% at best) what could they even do with it?
[1:09:42 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It's a pretty worthless program.
[1:11:01 PM] Bespinben: Even if a XML import turned out alright, I usually make a "tidied up" version anyway
[1:11:14 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: I'm sure we can get a uniform quality across all other programs.
[1:11:48 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Hell, it's not like most of the cosmetic requirements can only be done in Finale.
[1:12:02 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And as long as the music itself is correct and legible.
[1:13:29 PM] Bespinben: If we're using Finales spacing and typefont as the basis of "uniformity", I've already broken that rule
[1:13:49 PM] Bespinben: (Having used custom settings)
[1:14:12 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: So then it's a moot point ultimately.
[1:14:22 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Since there's apparently some give to those rules.
[1:15:06 PM] Bespinben: I've seen plenty sheets made in other programs that have a "Finale look" to them, on the other hand
[1:15:28 PM] Bespinben: So this whole uniformity thing is yes a moot point
[1:15:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Start the crusade and I'll back you.
[1:15:58 PM] Bespinben: Gogogogogo
[1:16:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally I prefer Finale, but that's largely because it's all I've used these past 10 years.
[1:16:44 PM] Bespinben: Oh same. I just think forcing it on everyone else is counterproductive.
[1:17:11 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It is, especially since it has such a steep learning curve.
[1:17:30 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And since most people don't have $150 for the next level above Notepad.
I wonder, can other music software programs beyond Musescore and Finale programs make XML files? Maybe we could require just PDF, MIDI and XML or MUS and then the updaters could plug the XML in to create a MUS file if the arranger isn't able to do it themselves.
Quote from: Bespinben on July 30, 2015, 12:23:45 PMSpoiler
MaestroBespinFan has a word to say about this:
[1:05:19 PM] Benjamin Persinger: I'm now not the only one who thinks Finale-centricism is hogwash. Thank you.
[1:06:47 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally it was outdated once PDFs became a requirement.
[1:07:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Sure it helps create a uniform standard in the creation process.
[1:07:36 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: But I seriously doubt most passerbys have Finale to make the MUS something they want.
[1:08:01 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Most of our intended audience are kids/teens between 9-16.
[1:08:23 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Who are just looking for an easy resource for their favorite VG tunes to show off to their friends.
[1:08:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Not exactly the kind of demographic who would even have Finale.
[1:09:13 PM] Benjamin Persinger: If we allow other programs, the less I have to deal with Notepad junk in submissions
[1:09:35 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And even if a few of them had Notepad (mind you, that's maybe 10% at best) what could they even do with it?
[1:09:42 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It's a pretty worthless program.
[1:11:01 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Even if a XML import turned out alright, I usually make a "tidied up" version anyway
[1:11:14 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: I'm sure we can get a uniform quality across all other programs.
[1:11:48 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Hell, it's not like most of the cosmetic requirements can only be done in Finale.
[1:12:02 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And as long as the music itself is correct and legible.
[1:13:29 PM] Benjamin Persinger: If we're using Finales spacing and typefont as the basis of "uniformity", I've already broken that rule
[1:13:49 PM] Benjamin Persinger: (Having used custom settings)
[1:14:12 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: So then it's a moot point ultimately.
[1:14:22 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Since there's apparently some give to those rules.
[1:15:06 PM] Benjamin Persinger: I've seen plenty sheets made in other programs that have a "Finale look" to them, on the other hand
[1:15:28 PM] Benjamin Persinger: So this whole uniformity thing is yes a moot point
[1:15:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Start the crusade and I'll back you.
[1:15:58 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Gogogogogo
[1:16:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally I prefer Finale, but that's largely because it's all I've used these past 10 years.
[1:16:44 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Oh same. I just think forcing it on everyone else is counterproductive.
[1:17:11 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It is, especially since it has such a steep learning curve.
[1:17:30 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And since most people don't have $150 for the next level above Notepad.
I'm Maestro and I endorse this message.
Maestro for President 2028
Quote from: Altissimo on July 30, 2015, 12:27:08 PMI wonder, can other music software programs beyond Musescore and Finale programs make XML files? Maybe we could require just PDF, MIDI and XML or MUS and then the updaters could plug the XML in to create a MUS file if the arranger isn't able to do it themselves.
XML files are sort of the "bridge" file between notation programs. However, they sure are FAR from perfect, and often look like complete shit when imported.
I actually haven't had to do much editing when I port an XML file from Musescore to Notepad. I guess other programs handle XML files differently?
While I'm ok with other people using other programs, encouraging a "Finale Look" should be a high priority for non-finale programs just for consistency's sake. A short stickied guide for musescore and sibelius would go a long way in that regard.
edit: But the .mus files make it much easier for updaters, as only one of the three files would need to be updated each time for feedback.
And .mus files help for edits and replacements, but, with our current quality standards, replacements would not be needed for anything added recently.
Quote from: Maelstrom on July 30, 2015, 12:52:28 PMWhile I'm ok with other people using other programs, encouraging a "Finale Look" should be a high priority for non-finale programs just for consistency's sake. A short stickied guide for musescore and sibelius would go a long way in that regard.
Yes and a updated picture in the guide so people can see how it should look.
I have mixed feelings on this topic. On the one hand I do like the idea of welcoming everyone regardless of arranging software - this would allow more people to contribute and not have anyone feeling left out. For example, Jester Musician uses MuseScore to make some very nice arrangements, and there haven't been any real problems when putting his sheets through the submissions system, because his sheets are, well, very good.
The problem, though, is when it comes to less experienced arrangers. It's easy for updaters and feedbackers to make some changes through Finale as opposed to opening up different programs and changing things there. We all know submissions take forever as is - I don't think we should try and work around different software if the arrangement's not already almost ready to go. The back-and-forth becomes more work.
Not to mention if we have no MUS an admin would have to rework the way the main site works. It'd be weird too if we had MUS files for every sheet except for a few current ones.
But most importantly, if we ever needed to make mass changes again (like the URL change) (or even just a simple mistake in a sheet that someone notices later on) we'd have to track down the arranger and ask them to change the thing in their program, and wait for them to make new PDFs as opposed to simply opening up Finale and clicking a couple of things.
In my opinion, to be more user-friendly, main site users should always be able to download Notepad and follow along with the playback. But I'm open to ideas about how to integrate sheets by other notation programs.
Well I still want to know what the download numbers look like for the various files we offer. I'm legitimately curious how that runs.
Same here.
Guys. We've always been a finale-based database. That isn't changing.
Isn't that the same line of thinking that went into justifying slavery? ie "We've always been a slave owning nation, that isn't changing".
It doesn't change if we're all close minded and refuse to accept the change.
Personally I would love to see the acceptance of other notations programs like musescore and the lot accepted, we'd have a lot more arrangers on site who can do their stuff.
Finale is horribly expensive for anything above notepad, as well.
The only issue I see arising, as Latios pointed out, is when a lot of updating is required, whereas a mus file helps do quick edits and things.
emm... really sorry to say this but.. this getting a bit of topic. The topic to be discussed in this thread is about improving the formatting guidelines. So, stick to the topic. Guess we won't write anything about using Finale, or the use of other notating programs in the formatting guidelines since so many people have different opinions about it.
So I hereby close this discussion. If someone feels really interested in discussing this, please create a new thread for discussing this.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on July 31, 2015, 11:18:16 AMIsn't that the same line of thinking that went into justifying slavery? ie "We've always been a slave owning nation, that isn't changing".
It doesn't change if we're all close minded and refuse to accept the change.
Personally I would love to see the acceptance of other notations programs like musescore and the lot accepted, we'd have a lot more arrangers on site who can do their stuff.
Finale is horribly expensive for anything above notepad, as well.
The only issue I see arising, as Latios pointed out, is when a lot of updating is required, whereas a mus file helps do quick edits and things.
No, it's not like that at all, actually. Everyone has a choice as to where they want to host their arrangements, you're not being forced to do anything. If you WANT to arrange for this site, then you'll need to adhere to our system-but it's COMPLETELY your choice. There's no need to over complicate everything. Hell, for the longest time we only hosted MUS and MIDI files.
Not to mention, the addition of yet another file type would require everyone to learn ANOTHER notation program. It's completely unnecessary.
The point of allowing other programs is that we would only require PDFs, if I'm not mistaken, which we already require.
We're not going to stop uploading MUS files just because a couple members don't want to use finale notepad. We all (myself included) had to use notepad at one point in time, and it's not like our community is really bad about helping out lower finale users (quite the opposite, actually).
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 31, 2015, 05:13:00 PMWe're not going to stop uploading MUS files just because a couple members don't want to use finale notepad. We all (myself included) had to use notepad at one point in time, and it's not like our community is really bad about helping out lower finale users (quite the opposite, actually).
But back in the day, Notepad was pretty much the only free music notation program we could use. Back then, it was pretty much Finale, maybe Sibelius, or nothing. Back then, it was the best we had to work with.
But nowadays there are (possibly better) alternatives. More recent users seem to have a preference for Musescore because it allows them more options than Notepad (I think, I actually haven't tried it yet). People with the more complete versions of Finale might be willing to help (certainly more so than a few years ago), but it still slows down the process with the constant back and forth, and it doesn't let the
filthy peasants people that don't want to invest in the better Finale programs to finish an arrangement independently. It just causes frustration for those arrangers, and more work and wasted time for the generous users that help the Notepad arrangers. I don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing to just have the submission requirements be PDF + MIDI + a customizable sheet (whether it's a Finale file, or a Musescore file, etc.).
However, if I did have one suggestion for making arranging for the Notepad users to be more accessible, it'd be to make the template file contain what Finale Notepad users would want to include in their arrangements, but can't. By this I mean simple things like making it have a variety of time or key signature changes within the sheet (including ones not available by default, like 5/4), a bunch of expression and dynamic markings, pedal lines, treble/bass clefs for the opposite hand, 8va, grace notes, etc. That way, Notepad users could simply copy/paste things that they normally don't have access to, and could accomplish more on their own. They'd probably still need help with stuff like moving the staves/systems, but for the most part I think it'd be helpful if Notepad users could have a "resource pool" all in one sheet to work off of.
But mandating them is unnecessary and requires people who already have a high end program like Sibelius to go down in quality.
I think what would work best is to stop mandating MUS files. Many people here already use Finale and that's great, but mandating that new users use a very counter intuitive notation program isn't necessarily a good idea.
^Yeah, that's not going to happen. Sorry. Here at NinSheetMusic we've always hosted MUS files and have made it possible for people to arrange without the full version via our template file and our "help for notepad users" topic. I do, however, like the idea of a file with copy/pastable tools. I'll look into something like that.
If you would like to submit arrangements without a finale file, Ichigo's Sheet Music doesn't require it.
Quote from: Echo on July 31, 2015, 05:38:11 PMI don't think it would necessarily be a bad thing to just have the submission requirements be PDF + MIDI + a customizable sheet (whether it's a Finale file, or a Musescore file, etc.).
I'm not trying to bash or be insulting, but that would be taking a huge chunk of what order we do have and chaosifying it.
Ok, this thread has run to down into a side topic, but I want to hear what happen to the original question. Are we going to update the formatting guidelines as I said in the OP? Is it happening?
In working on a revision.
So I edited the OP a bit, added a few things and removed stuff I thought was unnecessary.