Submission Information:
Series: Bomberman
Game: Bomberman
Console: Nintendo Entertainment System
Title: Stage Theme
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: LeviR.star (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5007)
Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/mus/4087) | MIDI (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/mid/4087) | PDF (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/4087)
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)
[attachment deleted by admin]
I can't stand the reverb this guy adds to his soundtrack uploads, but it was the only video I could find, so whatever...
In hindsight,
The Tower of Druaga's OST may not have been small enough to fit into one sheet, but this one certainly is. Some notes:
- I'd like to clarify that this submission is
not necessarily meant to replace Jacopo and his student's sheet (though it needed some fixing anyway), but to cover all of the game's music into one convenient, compact arrangement; you may recall that my "Music from Dig Dug" sheet was submitted for the Replacement Project in a similar manner
- by "fixing", I'm referring in part to the copyright year at the bottom of the on-site sheet; yes, the original
Bomberman was released in 1983 to a line of personal computers, but not only was it an entirely different game, it had no music whatsoever.
This game was released to the Famicom in 1985, and in North America two years later.
Did I mention this sheet (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/4223) is labeled incorrectly, too?- "Bonus Stage" will sound a lot less energetic on my sheet, but I had no choice but to simplify the repeated sixteenths into eighths, and the two-octave span of the LH part into one. I'm sure you could've figured this out yourselves, but I felt it was still worth mentioning
- the last two bars of "Ending" were repurposed for the "Stage Clear" theme (or was "Ending" built off of "Stage Clear"? Who knows). So, for this reason, I've notated them as interconnected segments (see the double barline), and the performer may start at the seventh bar in if they so choose
- the NES/Famicom release of
Bomberman has six sound effects in total, and I've chosen to transcribe one of them. It sounds like it might be used for when the player gains an extra life, but information on this subject matter is sparse. I'll be doing more research on this, but in the meantime, it shall be titled "1-Up?". You may listen to it for checking purposes here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jevgxxh4dfm1tmm/Unidentified%20Sound%20Effect%20-%20Bomberman.wav?dl=1)
Quote from: LeviR.star on June 19, 2022, 05:49:11 PMI can't stand the reverb this guy adds to his soundtrack uploads, but it was the only video I could find, so whatever...
In hindsight, The Tower of Druaga's OST may not have been small enough to fit into one sheet, but this one certainly is. Some notes:
- I'd like to clarify that this submission is not necessarily meant to replace Jacopo and his student's sheet (though it needed some fixing anyway), but to cover all of the game's music into one convenient, compact arrangement; you may recall that my "Music from Dig Dug" sheet was submitted for the Replacement Project in a similar manner
- by "fixing", I'm referring in part to the copyright year at the bottom of the on-site sheet; yes, the original Bomberman was released in 1983 to a line of personal computers, but not only was it an entirely different game, it had no music whatsoever. This game was released to the Famicom in 1985, and in North America two years later. Did I mention this sheet (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/4223) is labeled incorrectly, too?
- "Bonus Stage" will sound a lot less energetic on my sheet, but I had no choice but to simplify the repeated sixteenths into eighths, and the two-octave span of the LH part into one. I'm sure you could've figured this out yourselves, but I felt it was still worth mentioning
- the last two bars of "Ending" were repurposed for the "Stage Clear" theme (or was "Ending" built off of "Stage Clear"? Who knows). So, for this reason, I've notated them as interconnected segments (see the double barline), and the performer may start at the seventh bar in if they so choose
- the NES/Famicom release of Bomberman has six sound effects in total, and I've chosen to transcribe one of them. It sounds like it might be used for when the player gains an extra life, but information on this subject matter is sparse. I'll be doing more research on this, but in the meantime, it shall be titled "1-Up?". You may listen to it for checking purposes here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/jevgxxh4dfm1tmm/Unidentified%20Sound%20Effect%20-%20Bomberman.wav?dl=1)
Excuse the question, but why did you put on "replacement" if you don't intend to replace our score?
Quote from: JacopoTore on June 20, 2022, 08:40:46 AMExcuse the question, but why did you put on "replacement" if you don't intend to replace our score?
That submission title is automatically generated, and the updaters need to manually change the title to "Music from Bomberman" for me.
I think Jacopo is asking if this is serving as a replacement to his sheet - which to be clear, it is. You have rearranged the Stage Theme in this collection.
Edit: Also, if I didn't already imply this from the above, this sheet is fine to be a replacement. We've had collections replace single sheets in the past. Not a big deal.
Quote from: Static on June 20, 2022, 09:00:43 AMI think Jacopo is asking if this is serving as a replacement to his sheet - which to be clear, it is. You have rearranged the Stage Theme in this collection.
Edit: Also, if I didn't already imply this from the above, this sheet is fine to be a replacement. We've had collections replace single sheets in the past. Not a big deal.
I'm sorry Static but I don't understand if Levir want to remove my score, I'm a little confused by your answers
He plans on replacing your sheet/score with his own version, so yes.
Quote from: XiaoMigros on June 22, 2022, 06:33:13 AMHe plans on replacing your sheet/score with his own version, so yes.
Why do you want to replace my score? Do you think my student and me are unable to replace ourselves?
Happy One Month!
To mark this special occasion, I'd like to report on my findings regarding the mystery sound effect: it plays when you defeat the last enemy in the stage. Technically, doing so will reward you with an extra life, but only if you manage to clear the stage afterwards. If you die before reaching the exit, the game will revoke your bonus. In addition, I've shifted beat 4 of the RH part in measure 2 of "Title Screen" up an octave for ease of playing, similar to the same spot in measure 4 before the backwards repeat. Let me know if you've got any questions for me!
Sorry for the wait on this
Quote from: JacopoTore on June 22, 2022, 06:41:56 AMWhy do you want to replace my score? Do you think my student and me are unable to replace ourselves?
To include the whole soundtrack on one sheet. As mentioned previously, this has been done before in the past. Anyone is able to replace anyone else's sheet, so don't take it personally.
Anyways, some feedback:
- "Title Screen": Since this is in B major with some bluesy/mixolydian stuff, I would recommend writing the last Gxs as Ans instead. It goes down to the b7 then back up, rather than an approach to the major 7 with the #6, if that makes sense.
- "Power-Up" m4 RH, move the quarter rest up a bit
- "Miss" would probably look better in G# minor. Also, in the cross-staff beam, you can break the 2nd beam only so the 2nd beat is still shown. Up to you though.
- For "Miss", I don't think the 3/2 measure really makes sense. It sounds like it's in 4/4 and ends on a downbeat in a third measure. You could also write it in cut time. Either way, I wouldn't recommend using a time signature change here.
- "Stage Clear" m1 LH: The G on beat 4 sounds like it should be an octave lower, I don't think it would add much difficulty.
- In "Game Over", the Ens/Bns in the RH should be Fbs/Cbs
- "Defeated Last Enemy" implies Db major (to my ear at least), so I think it'd make more sense to write the RH as Db-C instead of C#-B#.
Quote from: Static on July 24, 2022, 10:33:15 AMSorry for the wait on this
No worries; since it's summer, I have ample time to address submission feedback. During the school year this would be a different story, but for now, I don't mind as long as I'm not left out of an update.
Quote from: Static on July 24, 2022, 10:33:15 AM- "Title Screen": Since this is in B major with some bluesy/mixolydian stuff, I would recommend writing the last Gxs as Ans instead. It goes down to the b7 then back up, rather than an approach to the major 7 with the #6, if that makes sense.
- "Power-Up" m4 RH, move the quarter rest up a bit
- "Miss" would probably look better in G# minor.
- In "Game Over", the Ens/Bns in the RH should be Fbs/Cbs
- "Defeated Last Enemy" implies Db major (to my ear at least), so I think it'd make more sense to write the RH as Db-C instead of C#-B#.
I changed all of these, thanks for pointing them out.
Quote from: Static on July 24, 2022, 10:33:15 AM- For "Miss", in the cross-staff beam, you can break the 2nd beam only so the 2nd beat is still shown. Up to you though.
- Also, I don't think the 3/2 measure really makes sense. It sounds like it's in 4/4 and ends on a downbeat in a third measure. You could also write it in cut time. Either way, I wouldn't recommend using a time signature change here.
- "Stage Clear" m1 LH: The G on beat 4 sounds like it should be an octave lower, I don't think it would add much difficulty.
Here's where I had some questions:
- would you mind showing me a screenshot of what this would look like? I'm having trouble visualizing what you want. Is the cross-staff beam unnecessary?
- understood. Would it be okay if I wrote it entirely in cut-time then? I don't know how the rules of beaming apply here for sixteenths
- I see where you're coming from, but I'm hesitant to bump it down an octave. I have no trouble believing the performer can make that jump, but the note is supposed to be longer than the one on beat 3. Do you think it'll be that noticeable? Should the slur in the right hand bridge the entirety of beat 4 through 1?
I'll post the current draft for now, in case I'm unavailable for when the update approaches.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 24, 2022, 10:04:35 PM- would you mind showing me a screenshot of what this would look like? I'm having trouble visualizing what you want. Is the cross-staff beam unnecessary?
(https://i.imgur.com/uqPScJ9.png)
Special Tools > Beam Break Tool > double-click box above the fifth 16th note (on beat 2) > check the box that says "16th" (this will check all the boxes automatically)
It keeps the cross-staff part, but also makes it so the beat is visible like it would be otherwise. Sorry for the confusion there.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 24, 2022, 10:04:35 PM- understood. Would it be okay if I wrote it entirely in cut-time then? I don't know how the rules of beaming apply here for sixteenths
Yes, beaming in 2/2 is the same as 4/4.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 24, 2022, 10:04:35 PM- I see where you're coming from, but I'm hesitant to bump it down an octave. I have no trouble believing the performer can make that jump, but the note is supposed to be longer than the one on beat 3. Do you think it'll be that noticeable? Should the slur in the right hand bridge the entirety of beat 4 through 1?
Makes sense to me, let's keep it then.
Everything else looks good
Quote from: Static on July 27, 2022, 04:30:55 PM(https://i.imgur.com/uqPScJ9.png)
Special Tools > Beam Break Tool > double-click box above the fifth 16th note (on beat 2) > check the box that says "16th" (this will check all the boxes automatically)
Thanks for clarifying, did that. Also went and removed every tenuto from the sheet, as they seemed a little redundant.
Looks good, though maybe keep the tenuto in Stage Clear, since all the other notes are staccato. Might be overlooked or played shorter than you intended
Firstly, feedback.
-Maybe place one of the harmony notes on beat 4 of bar 4 in title screen? Kind of like what you do elsewhere in this piece.
-Beat 2 in bar 1 of stage theme sounds like a Dn, and this should probably be written in Bm. This was correct on Jacopo's sheet.
-The bass in bar 1 of stage clear/ending doesn't sound like it jumps up an octave on beat 4, and the C# on beat 1 sounds like it should be an octave lower as well.
-Maybe a courtesy accidental on the C on beat 1 of bar of Game Over? There are a lot of accidentals here so I can see someone easily misreading this.
-The bar numberings are off in Game Over.
Quote from: JacopoTore on June 22, 2022, 06:41:56 AMWhy do you want to replace my score? Do you think my student and me are unable to replace ourselves?
Quote from: Static on July 24, 2022, 10:33:15 AMTo include the whole soundtrack on one sheet. As mentioned previously, this has been done before in the past. Anyone is able to replace anyone else's sheet, so don't take it personally.
While I do think this replacement should stand, this isn't an ideal situation, and I on behalf of the updating team apologise to you Jacopo. Despite what Static has said, everyone's sheets are not 'fair game' for replacement; replacements should really be focused on before our quality control was tightened (i.e. ~ pre .org). This is an unfortunate situation as I agree that the sheet makes more sense in this format due to the short length of the OST, so the replacement will stand. In an ideal situation, this would have been pointed out when Jacopo submitted this sheet originally, but it is not always easy for us to identify this sort of thing.
Just to be clear, if you think something is wrong with a sheet currently on-site and the arranger is still around,
you should not just submit a replacement to their sheet. It's quite frankly, rude. Reach out to them: it can probably be sorted out with minor edits. I would also like to add that while I understand there is something of a language barrier, I don't appreciate the way that you have ignored Jacopo in this thread, Levi. It is not hard to be civil. The easiest way to navigate these slight grey areas of the submissions process is by talking to each other.
Of course, if you have any questions regarding this, feel free to ask, but I hope this clears some things up for everyone.
Quote from: Libera on July 28, 2022, 01:40:31 AMJust to be clear, if you think something is wrong with a sheet currently on-site and the arranger is still around, you should not just submit a replacement to their sheet. It's quite frankly, rude. Reach out to them: it can probably be sorted out with minor edits. I would also like to add that while I understand there is something of a language barrier, I don't appreciate the way that you have ignored Jacopo in this thread, Levi. It is not hard to be civil. The easiest way to navigate these slight grey areas of the submissions process is by talking to each other.
If this were anyone else's sheet, I would have felt inclined to reach out first, but
Jacopo has had a history of ignoring my input on submissions, and I don't appreciate it. I also don't think it's a language barrier problem as much as a general disregard for my opinions because I'm not part of the updater team, though it's clear I'm more knowledgeable about these particular games than anyone else here. Had the on-site version been of higher quality, I'd have asked for permission to include him and his student's names in the arranger credits, but that was not the case here. Jacopo's sheets should have been given proper updater attention at the time of their submission, but instead, I feel many of them have been rushed out to meet our arbitrary quota, which probably wouldn't be happening if communication wasn't such an impeding factor. I did not anticipate having to explain myself in such detail, but here we are. I'll apply those edits to the sheets later today, Libera.
Quote from: Libera on July 28, 2022, 01:40:31 AMDespite what Static has said, everyone's sheets are not 'fair game' for replacement; replacements should really be focused on before our quality control was tightened (i.e. ~ pre .org).
My apologies as well to Jacopo for my rather cold response here, I was genuinely under the assumption that anything could freely be replaced (though it's quite rare). This is probably because I had a few of my own sheets replaced years ago, though these were changed to edit replacements... probably what this should've been, too.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 28, 2022, 03:25:30 AMIf this were anyone else's sheet, I would have felt inclined to reach out first, but Jacopo has had a history of ignoring my input on submissions, and I don't appreciate it. I also don't think it's a language barrier problem as much as a general disregard for my opinions because I'm not part of the updater team, though it's clear I'm more knowledgeable about these particular games than anyone else here. Had the on-site version been of higher quality, I'd have asked for permission to include him and his student's names in the arranger credits, but that was not the case here. Jacopo's sheets should have been given proper updater attention at the time of their submission, but instead, I feel many of them have been rushed out to meet our arbitrary quota, which probably wouldn't be happening if communication wasn't such an impeding factor. I did not anticipate having to explain myself in such detail, but here we are. I'll apply those edits to the sheets later today, Libera.
What you said was very rude, Levi, and disrespectful to both Jacopo and the updaters. If you take even a cursory glance through Jacopo's subs, you'll find he sometimes doesn't implement our own feedback at first either - this is very much a language barrier thing. No one is purposely ignoring your feedback. Secondly, I find it a bit pretentious for you to claim Jacopo's version was so far below your standards that you couldn't possibly contact him... especially considering you made an error in "Stage Theme" that he did not make. And thirdly, while we do try to get a decent number of subs in per update, we do not force sheets through to meet an arbitrary quota. As I'm sure you've noticed, many submissions linger around for 2-3 sub cycles (or more) based on extended feedback, arranger inactivity, etc. The reason why we left Jacopo's sheets as they were is because 1. we have (and have had) short fanfare/theme sheets already and 2. requiring an arranger to basically make a new sheet is something that should be done outside of submissions anyway. In my opinion, I think it is acceptable to have each individual theme as a separate sheet for these short OSTs. A compilation is fine as well.
Quote from: Libera on July 28, 2022, 01:40:31 AM-Maybe place one of the harmony notes on beat 4 of bar 4 in title screen? Kind of like what you do elsewhere in this piece.
-Beat 2 in bar 1 of stage theme sounds like a Dn, and this should probably be written in Bm. This was correct on Jacopo's sheet.
-The bass in bar 1 of stage clear/ending doesn't sound like it jumps up an octave on beat 4, and the C# on beat 1 sounds like it should be an octave lower as well.
-Maybe a courtesy accidental on the C on beat 1 of bar of Game Over? There are a lot of accidentals here so I can see someone easily misreading this.
-The bar numberings are off in Game Over.
- good call, did that
- huh, so it is. I've been hearing it wrong all these years, then, this is quite humbling
- Static and I already discussed this, I bumped up the beat 4 note so that the player can reach the C-sharp more comfortably (and yes, that second note is in the right octave.) That said, given that two updaters have already suggested I change it, I had better (not the C-sharp, though, that is correct)
- I'll assume you mean bar 2's beat 1, and add that courtesy natural. Do I need a courtesy sharp for bar 2, beat 1 RH of "Miss"?
- I think the custom numberings got adjusted when I removed the time signature change in "Miss", and I didn't notice. Fixed
Quote from: Static on July 27, 2022, 05:46:19 PMLooks good, though maybe keep the tenuto in Stage Clear, since all the other notes are staccato. Might be overlooked or played shorter than you intended
Was going to put it back until Libera's feedback, so now it won't be necessary.
Quote from: Static on July 28, 2022, 09:41:50 AMSecondly, I find it a bit pretentious for you to claim Jacopo's version was so far below your standards that you couldn't possibly contact him... especially considering you made an error in "Stage Theme" that he did not make.
Normally I'd be cheeky enough to ask why you didn't notice my error yourself, but it's a moot point and I've already admitted to my fault.
If this wasn't made clear already, the only reason I submitted this as a replacement was out of convenience, not out of spite towards Jacopo and his student. And it wouldn't have been fair of the staff to ask him to arrange the entire OST just so he can have the stage theme on the site, so I took this into my own hands. I could root through old forum messages to support the claim that my feedback has been actively ignored to meet deadlines, but I'm not that petty. All I wanted was act on what I thought was in the site's best interest, communication barrier or not. I apologize for being pretentious and rude in my previous post, but I don't believe I needed permission from anybody to submit this sheet.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 28, 2022, 01:17:56 PMI apologize for being pretentious and rude in my previous post, but I don't believe I needed permission from anybody to submit this sheet.
I think we've already run the topic of the replacement into the ground and are all on the same page that the replacement is justified, but some more courtesy would be nice in the future, so I'll not dwell on that.
About your apology - have you read your own most recent post?
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 28, 2022, 01:17:56 PMNormally I'd be cheeky enough to ask why you didn't notice my error yourself, but it's a moot point and I've already admitted to my fault.
I'd like to remind you to please keep your attitude in check... you're continuing to be snarky and disrespectful to the people who are only trying to help you.
As for this:
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 28, 2022, 03:25:30 AMJacopo's sheets should have been given proper updater attention at the time of their submission, but instead, I feel many of them have been rushed out to meet our arbitrary quota, which probably wouldn't be happening if communication wasn't such an impeding factor.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 28, 2022, 01:17:56 PMI could root through old forum messages to support the claim that my feedback has been actively ignored to meet deadlines, but I'm not that petty.
I've mentioned to you in the past - if there's something you're dissatisfied with about the updating process, bring it up with me and the updaters to discuss instead of complaining that we're not doing our job right. I don't agree with these claims that you've made from the submissions I remember looking over lately, but perhaps I missed something. If you feel strongly about this, please DO provide us with examples where we can do better.
All that said, I don't see any reason to continue this discussion in this submission thread when the sheet's just about ready to go. Let's get this submission wrapped up and I'd be happy to take this to a private or small group discussion with the updaters elsewhere.
I'm going to refrain from commenting on the behaviour here as I believe it has escaped the scope of this thread.
Quote from: LeviR.star on July 28, 2022, 01:17:56 PM- I'll assume you mean bar 2's beat 1, and add that courtesy natural. Do I need a courtesy sharp for bar 2, beat 1 RH of "Miss"?
I don't think so.
Stage Theme should still be in Bm, not B.
This submission has been accepted by Libera (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5291).
~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot