Submission Information:
Series: Super Mario
Game: Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
Console: Game Boy Advance
Title: Teehee Valley
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Rain Shinotsu (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5544)
Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/mus/384) | MIDI (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/mid/384) | PDF (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/384)
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)
[attachment deleted by admin]
To check the arrangement, if need be.
I'm pretty sure that I have everything except tempo marking (Quarter = 96 BPM). I couldn't put that in with Finale NotePad; could someone with a paid version please add it for me? (Update: Thanks, Rwars!)
Also, how do I change my arranger name? It should be Rain Shinotsu, but I have no idea where to find that field. (Update: Thanks, Latios!)
Here's a copy of it with the tempo marking! https://puu.sh/Bs4xu/17dc2eea11.mus
Also, I don't think we ever really add "repeat ad nauseam" for our sheets. At least, I don't, and I don't think anyone I knows does.
Thanks for adding the tempo marking! Also, I like the file name; can I keep it? (Update: I guess not. All right.)
I figured that not a lot of if any people use "repeat ad nauseam" but I also figured that it better distinguishes a repeating piece from a piece that has a definitive end (like pretty much all of the Rhythm Heaven soundtrack). Nevertheless, I'll take it out.
Update 1: I updated the files so that they include the tempo marker and remove the "repeat ad nauseam"
Update 2: I fixed the file name and some of the rhythm denotations as recommended by Latios in the message following this.
Welcome to NinSheetMusic! :D I've updated your arranger name.
Hmm... the file names really should correspond to the sheet so if you could change that back it would be nice :P
Sheet looks pretty good, but there are a few things I'd like to mention as I'm passing by.
- Try and avoid dotted rests (like in m. 2)
- I think the rhythm in m. 13 would be more clearly written as a quarter tied to a dotted quarter, rather than a half tied to an eighth
- We should consider writing the LH part present in m. 2 and other places to avoid tying over the bottom note like that (no concrete suggestions from me at the moment, kinda tired)
Great looking replacement in the works here; thanks for that!
Thanks for looking it over, and thanks for updating my arranger name.
I updated some of the details in accordance with your recommendations. However, to avoid tying the bottom note over, I'll need another (layer? voice? In Musescore, my native program, it's called a voice). If I could have done it, I would have, but I don't know how to do that efficiently in Finale NotePad*. Advice or volunteering would be appreciated if it's possible in Finale products.
*I know how to add layers in NotePad, but if I add a second-layer eighth note midway through, it leaves behind plenty of second-layer rests. If I delete them, it moves the eighth note to a position earlier in the measure.
Quote from: Rwars on September 08, 2018, 11:53:05 PMHere's a copy of it with the tempo marking! https://puu.sh/Bs4xu/17dc2eea11.mus
Also, I don't think we ever really add "repeat ad nauseam" for our sheets. At least, I don't, and I don't think anyone I knows does.
Well, there is this
https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/3575
Quote from: mastersuperfan on September 09, 2018, 08:32:49 PMWell, there is this
https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/3575
I mean, isn't that sheet years old anyhow?
Quote from: Rwars on September 10, 2018, 12:36:58 AMI mean, isn't that sheet years old anyhow?
Not really; it's sheet #3575, but the marking is referring to the tone of the song.
I think that what was being talked about was the "repeat ad infinitum" at the end.
(bump?)
Some comments from me:
-Places like the last half of bar 2 you drop the upper part of the left even though it's still there. Every time this occurs the right hand is actually free and I don't think it'd be too hard to play it with the right hand and hence you'd never have to leave it out.
-Really nitpicky but in bars 10-11 I feel like the minim should be a dotted minim.
-No bar numbers? I forget whether they are a requirement on sheets but I feel like they should be there.
-I know you corrected it for Latios, but when I saw that rhythm in bar 13 I was confused for a second. I think it'd be clearer as a minim tied to a quaver as you had before... I'd see if anyone else has any opinions on this particular section.
-Sounds like beat 1 of bar 20 is rolled to me.
This was a nice and easy one to check so thanks for that I guess. Good job!
Edit: I am a moron. Expect some actual criticism in a few minutes.
Ok I accidentally was reviewing the old sheet rather than yours when I first looked at this because I just clicked on the first link I saw like an idiot. Anyway, quite a bit of my criticism actually still applies strangely enough.
- I actually prefer the chords the octave up, although I realise that would make them harder to play. If you're worried about not being able to include the bass as well, every time they're both playing the right hand is free to play the chords so it should be ok in that regard. Edit: If you still want to keep them together for ease of play, I'd put the whole thing up an octave so it sounds less muddy.
- I still feel like bar 13 would look better as minim tied to quaver, but I'll see what other's have to say.
- I don't see the purpose of having the whole section pasted again from bar 21. It'd be better to repeat back to bar 4.
- Bar 20 should be rolled.
(Also I found the list formatting...)
I made some edits according to Libera's recommendations. Here are my addresses to the points given:
1. I moved the left-hand part an octave up. I had them down in the first place because of the D4 notes in the melody always coinciding with a D4 in the chords had they been up. This only occurs four times, though, so it isn't a big issue, I guess.
2. I'm not sure. If it's decided so, I'll change it back.
3. I did that because I found it better to repeat where the phrases begin and end (essentially where the piece loops) but I guess I'm one of the only people who do that. I have a version with it being longer saved to my computer, but in case shortening it like this is ideal, I used this one in the submission update. I'm not very fond of where it cuts off, though...
4. It should be, and in my main arrangement, I had it like that, but I haven't found that feature in Finale NotePad (someone with paid Finale, please help?)
edited for wording
It doesn't look like you've put the left-hand up an octave.
Weird - I thought I updated it. I must have saved it at an incorrect point or something. It should now be updated properly.
No problem. Sorry for the delay in my response.
Quote from: Rain_Shinotsu on September 09, 2018, 07:10:47 PMHowever, to avoid tying the bottom note over, I'll need another (layer? voice? In Musescore, my native program, it's called a voice). If I could have done it, I would have, but I don't know how to do that efficiently in Finale NotePad*. Advice or volunteering would be appreciated if it's possible in Finale products.
*I know how to add layers in NotePad, but if I add a second-layer eighth note midway through, it leaves behind plenty of second-layer rests. If I delete them, it moves the eighth note to a position earlier in the measure.
Actually on second thought how about just putting those 16th notes in the right hand instead? Everywhere that figure occurs the right hand is idle, and you could avoid messy layers AND making the left hand play a slightly awkward figure.
That isn't true in every instance. In measure 11, the right hand should be holding an A4 when an instance occurs. That would transfer the weird pattern from the left hand to the right, which doesn't get rid of it. What should be done there?
Other than that, the idea of moving the sixteenths to the other hand feels wrong, but probably because I take a technical look at the sheet more than the performance aspect of it. Nevertheless, I'm working on it, and I will update the score and this post when it is ready.
UPDATE: I moved the sixteenth notes in the weird patterns to the right hand, but in m. 11, it required sacrificing note length.
Check bar 11 again. This is looking a lot better though.
Adding the pattern to the right hand is only half the battle. Thanks for pointing out my forgetting to remove it from the left hand. Updated.
Try fiddling around with the measure and system distribution a little. This could be formatted a lot better, methinks. Play around with it.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that. I don't usually focus on the sheets as much as I do the audio, so I'm not sure what aspects can be improved in that regard.
Alright. Imma give you how to sheet music 101 right here, right now. So, pay attention, and take notes.
Here. We. Go.
So, first and foremost, let's talk about page margins.
A decent sheet will have all sides of the page evened out. I go for about 0.5625 in for all my page margin needs. 0.5 also works, but going any smaller would probably not be good for the sheet.
This is yours:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/g6GEdfi.jpg)
This is after with even margins:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/UxtA3Nn.jpg)
Hopefully, you can see the notes open up with new life. Having space that wasn't there before, making the manuscript more readable than ever.
This next part requires the use of google, if you're used to the standard system of the US like I am.
Bes gave me this neat table describing the different widths of each type of staves for piano music, choral music, etc. Today, we're focusing solely on the piano side of things.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/HU9rus5.jpg)
Imma go for a solid 6.5 millimeter on this sheet. I tried 6.0 millimeters and that looked a little too small for our work here.
(https://i.imgur.com/HzrNhXg.jpg)
We'll use that number in inches and plug it in into the resize tool into Finale.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/VLmLNS8.jpg)
Before with the new size plugged in.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/5PDyMn2.jpg)
Resize after with 0.255906 in resize. It should affect the whole system. This should leave all the text-based stuff like expressions etc the same, but I'm not sure as I just learned it a couple of days myself.
After that, we apply some space on the bottom system, about 1.0 in then "space systems evenly" in the documents dropdown menu.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/p89R5Yl.jpg)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/jb2s0W7.jpg)
After all that tedious work, you should be left with this beauty.
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Rw6emYZ.jpg)
I hope this has been helpful. And don't be afraid to ask for help regarding improving your spacing or whatnot. We hope to strive to a better looking sheet to read. Margins, spacing, percentages, etc, are just the start of being able to take real control of your notation program.
Carry on!
Wow, that's quite a guide. But there's a problem: I can't find a lot of these menus. Maybe it has something to do with my only having Finale NotePad. Someone who is more familiar with NotePad: Do these menus exist, and if so, where? If not, then could somebody please make these fixes for me?
You're lucky I'm a merciful god.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv9qw5efak9ecds/Teehee%20Valley%20Piano%20edit1.mus?dl=0
Jk, hope this helps.
What program do you use? It probably has the same features, and the majority of them should carry over musicXML.
@Brassman: Thanks for the formatting edit. I updated the score accordingly.
@Trasdegi: I use MuseScore. I know you have a guide, and while it was helpful, I still encountered some complications that made it more worthwhile just to try to put up with NotePad. It has been a while, so I don't remember exactly what was the issue, but I do recall having some difficulties with it.
Feedback:
- I think this sheet would benefit with some slurs on the melody as phrase markers.
- In m6, m11, and m15, the melody is held across the entire measure. I would put the sixteenth notes into Layer 2 so that you can make the note values in Layer 1 longer.
- The next person to touch this sheet with a paid version of Finale should get around to rolling the LH chord in m20
Solid sheet, don't see any major problems with it. Nice.
1. I guess I'll add some, then. I did. Is this what you were thinking?
2. I wanted to extend these through the measure, but if I put the sixteenth notes in another layer, it leaves behind a bunch of note rests, deleting which shifts the 16th notes in the measure. The other thing I could do (and once did) would be to put them in the left hand with the rest of its part, but that requires tying two sixteenths in the true bass of those chords. (Latios recommended I move them to RH to avoid this.)
3. Agreed.
Quote from: Rain_Shinotsu on September 30, 2018, 03:24:07 PM2. I wanted to extend these through the measure, but if I put the sixteenth notes in another layer, it leaves behind a bunch of note rests, deleting which shifts the 16th notes in the measure. The other thing I could do (and once did) would be to put them in the left hand with the rest of its part, but that requires tying two sixteenths in the true bass of those chords. (Latios recommended I move them to RH to avoid this.)
You could (if Notepad lets you) hide some of the rests in Layer 2.
I tried to do it, and I don't think that's an option unless somebody does it for me on a paid Finale.
So that leaves two things that I can't do that I should:
1. roll the chord in m21 LH
2. Move the sixteenth notes in mm. 2, 6, 11, 15, 20 to another layer and extend the melody through the measure. Idea: Let's move them back to the left hand but make "the and of 3" in the LH of those measures an eighth note in another layer. Inevitably, if we extend the melody through the measure, the pattern would be a bit more difficult, so we should move it with the rest of the chord part to make the sheet that much more visually pleasing(?)
Actually, let me try doing it on MuseScore first. I think I can actually get it done there. It kind of worked. I was able to do the things, but it broke the page formatting, and trying to fix it again didn't work too well, so I didn't confirm the changes. Someone with paid Finale, please help.
Here's a version with the rolled chord added.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hv0x544wvn9as6t/Teehee%20Valley%20Piano%20Libera%20Edit.musx?dl=1
I just realised you're using notepad so can't use that file. Here's an .mus instead:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmst201mj5wlu8j/Teehee%20Valley%20Piano%20Libera%20Edit.mus?dl=0
Is this the sort of thing you want for the other point?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/492809359961882625/497409401334923274/unknown.png
Thanks for rolling the chord. It was updated accordingly.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the sort of thing (I) want for the other point" but if it helps to have an image, I made one:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/xb8R8ll.png)
I'm thinking something like that.
The issue with that version is that it breaks up the bass line whereas my version has them beamed together.
It's either that, breaking the treble line, or using tied 16th notes for the bass in those measures.
What about my version?
If it's what I think it is, it seems to break the treble line.
Here are the ideas that came to mind:
First, keeping the chord in the treble staff, putting it in a second layer:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/Z9ZqAlg.png)
I think this is what you recommended. It feels out of place, though.
Second, putting the chord in the bass staff, putting either it or the bass part in the second layer (as I showed earlier):
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/xb8R8ll.png)
This breaks the bass line. It seems a bit weird, but it's the cleanest.
Third, using only one layer, but making the bass two tied 16th notes.
Spoiler
https://i.imgur.com/zMnZD92.png
This is a weird option overall, but it avoids layer mechanics, which means that I can do this myself.
Look at my picture again; none of the options you showed are what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting keeping it in the left hand but also keeping the bass together as one layer.
Oh, then I got the wrong idea of what you were suggesting. I figure I should give a few more examples now that I thought it over. Maybe one of these is what you're thinking of.
Fourth, moving the chord there to the second layer and keeping the bass in the first, such as this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/P9fSCQG.png)
This one looks messy and unorganized, but at least the bass part is together.
Fifth, putting all of the chord part in one layer and all of the bass part in another. This leaves many residual rests, but deleting the ones that can be deleted and hiding the rest yields this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/rfJeY2W.png)
At least, that is what it looks like in the MuseScore editor. On a PDF, it displays quite cleanly, like this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/gmYrC8k.png)
This is probably the cleanest option, and it can be used throughout the entire sheet. I think I prefer this one.
All of these images are hosted on imgur. The album can be accessed here (https://imgur.com/a/OHQ86o1).
Update: I finally saw what you meant when you asked "is this the sort of thing you want"; I somehow didn't see the image attached.
So what do you think? I personally think that it's the best looking solution but it's your sheet.
Quote from: Rain_Shinotsu on October 04, 2018, 10:49:22 AMFourth, moving the chord there to the second layer and keeping the bass in the first, such as this:
(https://i.imgur.com/P9fSCQG.png)
This, but like this.
(https://i.imgur.com/6cpVqtO.jpg)
Putting the chord there in a separate layer from everything else makes it stick out. Frankly, I would prefer to have the fifth option (chord and bass in their own layers throughout the score) but you all are probably better versed in developing sheet music than I am.
Two things you have to keep in mind when doing copyist stuff.
One, is don't make it overly complicated that it has to be. Visually it's meant to be clear and concise. All we can do is offer those kinds of solutions. Saying things like, it sticks out or whatever, isn't accounting for the fact that it could very well be the only way to simply put what is happening sonically.
Two, it's a small section that we shouldn't be wasting this much time over. I would be much more aggressive about layering if it was warranted throughout the work, but since it's in half a measure, utilizing layers in this fashion is not unorthodox in the least bit.
Very well. If that's the cast, then let us keep it specific to this one section.
...but I can't do that myself without making a mess of rests. Is it possible for someone with a paid Finale product to do it for me?
Sorry for the wait on this; here is the file with the edits. If you use this file I'll give this the go ahead.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmst201mj5wlu8j/Teehee%20Valley%20Piano%20Libera%20Edit.mus?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zmst201mj5wlu8j/Teehee%20Valley%20Piano%20Libera%20Edit.mus?dl=1)
Yeah, once this is updated and you confirm this is acceptable to you, one of us will accept it.
Thanks for giving this a chance.
I went ahead and made the edits myself since you seem to be busy. Good to go.
The last measure was missing a pickup in the bass leading into the repeat. Fixed that, and it's good now.
This submission has been accepted by Latios212 (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4344).
~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot