Submission Information:
Series: Star Fox
Game: Star Fox 64
Console: Nintendo 64
Title: All Clear
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Fernman (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8072)
Link to song:
Notes about arrangment:
The song itself is relatively short (35 seconds) with the melody only being 8 measures. There are many layers to this arrangement, so I decided to approach them in different sections to make the song interesting each time.
"A" is the main theme
"B" is the higher octave of the main theme. The LH is raised an octave so the disparity between both sections is still pleasant. The intent of this section is to feel that you really finished the game and you can relax, breath and smile.
"C" is a non-harmonic of the main theme with the counter melody present in the LH
It then repeats and goes to the second ending "D"
"D" is the same as C except each hand does what the other hand did in C. I really like the RH section so high. It just feels so rewarding and content that you did it! you beat the game.
And then it ends on a good note.
Hi there!
Similar to what was said on your other submission, just make sure to follow the formatting guidelines. I noticed you made some big updates to this sheet, but still a few things apply. Didn't look too hard at notes beyond the first section so mostly general stuff.
Format/Document
- From m7 on the tempo is quarter note = 74 bpm; I would suggest clocking tempos with a tool or a website like this; https://www.beatsperminuteonline.com/.
- m6 RH the 2nd note hear doesn't sound like it is that much shorter, so I would remove the staccato. Staccatos don't usually make sense on 16th notes unless the tempo is somewhat slow (like 60 bpm for example).
- m1 and m4 LH the dotted 8th notes here aren't that short so the staccato is not necessary.
- m38-39 is a bit awkward as far as the measure distribution goes. Typically the measures per system (system being the each row on which measures exist on the sheet) is consistent, such as four measures per system. You might want to play around with this more, but I would also suggest referencing existing sheets that are on NinSheetMusic for a bit more guidance.
- With Ottavas (8va) make sure they are not going through other elements, such as the section letters or repeat endings. However, I think the Ottavas are better left out here; I think they are making the RH up an octave higher than the original top layer melody notes.
- Typically for songs that loop it is reflected in arrangements with a repeat symbol, so perhaps remove m39 and have the repeat cycle back to m7.
Notes
- m3 RH I hear a G under the B. I also hear a B under the D in m4-5.
- m1-3 RH this isn't the correct rhythms to begin with, but I wanted to note that dotted 32nd notes like this not a standard notation. For m1, the D-E-F are all triplet 16th notes. The same goes for the F-G-A in m2, and the A-B-C in m3.
- m6 I do not hear the D's in this measure. The G's are actually present an octave lower than they are currently as well though. Perhaps this measure could be written as such:
- I would listen closer from m7 to the end. There are a lot of missing notes underneath the RH melody, it sounds like two different octaves are playing for a good chunk between m15 to the end. There are also intricacies that could be incorporated to the RH, such as the trumpet part in m19-22.
Somethings I've noticed in your submitted arrangements (for example at m1-6 in the beginning of this arrangement) is that your left hand parts (LH) have some sections containing very midrange pitches and are leaving out the bassline or lower notes. It was good to add notes that fill out the RH chords (from your original sheet submission), but there are places where especially m3-m6 that I think the lower registry notes should represented. Perhaps with tremolos representing drum rolls.
In the "A-C sections" and on, the LH also leaves a bit to be desired. There's a low drum part (timpani) with audible pitches that could be incorporated, as well as the organ part acting as harmony that could potentially be incorporated in some way, perhaps down an octave or two from the original pitches. The organ is being used at section C in the LH but I think it also feels like the arrangement loses a bit of depth with no lower notes, going back to my previous suggestion on keeping/having lower/bass notes.
I think you made good changes in these regards with your Area 6 arrangement, hope this helps!
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PMFormat/Document
- From m7 on the tempo is quarter note = 74 bpm; I would suggest clocking tempos with a tool or a website like this; https://www.beatsperminuteonline.com/.
- m6 RH the 2nd note hear doesn't sound like it is that much shorter, so I would remove the staccato. Staccatos don't usually make sense on 16th notes unless the tempo is somewhat slow (like 60 bpm for example).
- m1 and m4 LH the dotted 8th notes here aren't that short so the staccato is not necessary.
- m38-39 is a bit awkward as far as the measure distribution goes. Typically the measures per system (system being the each row on which measures exist on the sheet) is consistent, such as four measures per system. You might want to play around with this more, but I would also suggest referencing existing sheets that are on NinSheetMusic for a bit more guidance.
- With Ottavas (8va) make sure they are not going through other elements, such as the section letters or repeat endings. However, I think the Ottavas are better left out here; I think they are making the RH up an octave higher than the original top layer melody notes.
- Typically for songs that loop it is reflected in arrangements with a repeat symbol, so perhaps remove m39 and have the repeat cycle back to m7.
These are all fixed. The 8va's is how it formatted in Notepad. I am unable to adjust it in Notepad, or even move the tempo marking from under Section "A".
True, typically songs that loop, loop at then end. However, when I was listening to it repeating at m39 it got boring. So, I made a 1st and second ending with variations to it. So I intentionally made 30 be the repeat so it can end differently.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PMNotes
- m3 RH I hear a G under the B. I also hear a B under the D in m4-5.
I don't hear a G5 whole note. Maybe a G4. The G4 can't be played because it would overlay with the LH.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PM- m1-3 RH this isn't the correct rhythms to begin with, but I wanted to note that dotted 32nd notes like this not a standard notation. For m1, the D-E-F are all triplet 16th notes. The same goes for the F-G-A in m2, and the A-B-C in m3.
- m6 I do not hear the D's in this measure. The G's are actually present an octave lower than they are currently as well though. Perhaps this measure could be written as such:
Fixed, though I'm not sure if you had more to add after "such:"
I hear the flute or piccolo as the high notes in the background which I think is the same octave?
Also, Notepad formatted it so the 16th's were joined with the Triplet. I don't know how to fix that.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PM- I would listen closer from m7 to the end. There are a lot of missing notes underneath the RH melody, it sounds like two different octaves are playing for a good chunk between m15 to the end. There are also intricacies that could be incorporated to the RH, such as the trumpet part in m19-22.
The melody itself is playing at the two different octaves piccolo and some soft trumpets I think as if A and B RH were stacked upon each other. Since that isn't playable I approached it in two different sections. If you are referring to the Organ accompaniment that is in Part C.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PMSomethings I've noticed in your submitted arrangements (for example at m1-6 in the beginning of this arrangement) is that your left hand parts (LH) have some sections containing very midrange pitches and are leaving out the bassline or lower notes. It was good to add notes that fill out the RH chords (from your original sheet submission), but there are places where especially m3-m6 that I think the lower registry notes should represented. Perhaps with tremolos representing drum rolls.
If I understand you correctly you are referencing a G2, F2 and anything else in that range is not reachable by the left hand. Since it is not playable I'm not sure what the reason is to include them.
If the drum roll is what is being represented with tremolos, I would imagine they would be lower notes, which I don't see as being reachable and playable on time since it is immediately after and during the LH. Also, personally I don't see how a drumroll adapted tremolo would be fitting for a song that is trying to make you relax. Although it is present in the OST, I at least don't remember it as much as the melody.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PMIn the "A-C sections" and on, the LH also leaves a bit to be desired. There's a low drum part (timpani) with audible pitches that could be incorporated,
I'm not sure how to put an image on display here so I'll put a link.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yACyWFyKyGgY_oy-mIlY1ZXTM3iM0UWG/view?usp=share_link
In the image I added in the timpani for what I could figure out. I concluded that on the piano it makes too much movement in my opinion for a song that is meant for you to take a breath and relax that the final boss is defeated. i did add a few notes that do fit when the RH is holding a note.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PMas well as the organ part acting as harmony that could potentially be incorporated in some way, perhaps down an octave or two from the original pitches.
Instead of doing multiple voices, my approach is to tackle them in individual sections. I did try and overlay them onto section B, down an octave, but I think it sounds unpleasant.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 17, 2023, 04:30:32 PMThe organ is being used at section C in the LH but I think it also feels like the arrangement loses a bit of depth with no lower notes, going back to my previous suggestion on keeping/having lower/bass notes.
I updated the arrangement to pull the organ down an octave to give it depth while still sounding pleasant. I considered making the RH the organ and keeping the lower notes from section "A" but the RH is the melody and I think should always be repeated in some fashion to keep with the spirit of the song.
As a playability aside, although I made updates to the sheet with more harmonics in the Intro and section A, I am not able to play those octave jumps smoothly as I would if I were just playing the top notes. I added them since I know now the reviewers will be looking for them, but I'm not certain if that can be played smoothly. Even with the pedal it sounds not smooth. Maybe it is my hand reach? Thoughts?
Thanks for the feedback!
Quote from: Fernman on March 17, 2023, 09:38:30 PMThese are all fixed. The 8va's is how it formatted in Notepad. I am unable to adjust it in Notepad, or even move the tempo marking from under Section "A".
One of the most knowledgeable people on this site when it comes to MuseScore and making it work for NotePad exports, Cacabish, wrote the following post. https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?topic=11860.0. I know it's a lot to look through but see what can get ported over from MuseScore. Dependent on where things are from there, I can certainly provide some assistance with formatting and such.
QuoteTrue, typically songs that loop, loop at then end. However, when I was listening to it repeating at m39 it got boring. So, I made a 1st and second ending with variations to it. So I intentionally made 30 be the repeat so it can end differently.
My apologies for not picking up on this the first time, but I now see that this song really only goes till m14. I like the varied aspect of the rest of the arrangement and the thinking there, but this really isn't quite what the arrangements that get put on NinSheetMusic are. Typically if a song kind of loops back to the beginning after one go through, that is how the sheets are, regardless of the length of the piece.
I think sometimes people do make custom endings like your last measure, but it would be quite atypical to have arrangements go up that have large sections varied when a song would normally just repeat. On that subject, your custom ending should be clearly labeled is not a part of the original track
Hope that isn't a huge thing, but I would request that the song go from 39 measures to 15, including the optional custom ending.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 24, 2023, 02:19:58 PMMy apologies for not picking up on this the first time, but I now see that this song really only goes till m14. I like the varied aspect of the rest of the arrangement and the thinking there, but this really isn't quite what the arrangements that get put on NinSheetMusic are. Typically if a song kind of loops back to the beginning after one go through, that is how the sheets are, regardless of the length of the piece.
I think sometimes people do make custom endings like your last measure, but it would be quite atypical to have arrangements go up that have large sections varied when a song would normally just repeat. On that subject, your custom ending should be clearly labeled is not a part of the original track
Hope that isn't a huge thing, but I would request that the song go from 39 measures to 15, including the optional custom ending.
I knew this was a slightly creative project and I wanted to test the waters on what is site acceptable on this short song.
I'm ok with the idea of shortening the song, but IF it involves layering everything (i.e. RH section A, B, and C) on top of each other, in my opinion it becomes unplayable and therefore not in line with Ninsheet guidelines. And it does sound unpleasant if layered "as is."
Even if A and C were layered only I consider it unplayable, except maybe only to highly skilled players which in my opinion, are not the majority of visitors on this site. I could be wrong, but that is my thought.
Let me know if you have any additional thoughts, otherwise I will withdraw this submission at the end of tomorrow 3/25
Layering is not quite what I had in mind either, it would be unplayable. I know B and C sections RH melody represent that high flute part, and I think it's okay/sounds better to leave that melody down an octave for this arrangement the way it is written out in section A already.
I consolidated everything into the aforementioned 15 measures. I tried to avoid layered voicing when possible in the LH by changing half notes to quarter or eight notes found in the other voice. This not only improves playability but is also easier to play for someone with a shorter hand reach. When fingers overlapped I picked one hand to play the note. I added the note of the optional ending. I hope I don't have to justify every small change as I tried to still make it playable and in the spirit of the song.
Quote from: Fernman on March 25, 2023, 08:08:40 AMI consolidated everything into the aforementioned 15 measures. I tried to avoid layered voicing when possible in the LH by changing half notes to quarter or eight notes found in the other voice. This not only improves playability but is also easier to play for someone with a shorter hand reach. When fingers overlapped I picked one hand to play the note. I added the note of the optional ending.
This consolidation looks pretty good, and thank you for being flexible/adaptable on that.
Going to give some more broadly submission related feedback, as well as some note fixes:
- Make sure with each submission update, you're updating all the file types. The .mus is from the last feedback exchange, and while it's mostly a convenience thing before a sheet is accepted for the next site update (i.e. can do playback in Finale as opposed to reading the sheet PDF and trying to play the midi file with it separately lol), we do want to make sure all the files are up to date.
- For the composer credits, this track was by Koji Kondo only, which can be sourced on vgmdb https://vgmdb.net/album/133. We use this site a lot for song credits, but there are often a lot of games where we would just put every composer's name from the composer credits because a soundtrack release doesn't exist. Thankfully SF 64 is not one of those games. Can remove Hajime Wakai from the sheet.
- "Arrangement by Fernman still seems a little small, try increasing the font by 1 or 2 points.
- For the optional ending text, could you bold the font and make sure it's 12 pts? The ending looks good, can reference sheets onsite that are short theme compilations for how the text could look (ex. https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/5068)
Notes- m3 LH small beaming fix here, the second dotted 8th note should be a 16th tied to an 8th. There would also not be a half note, as general music theory/beaming rules dictate to not beam over the middle of a measure. So instead, have an 8th note tied to a dotted quarter (which looks like the below image)
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/NItwxOv.png)
For additional reading on beaming rules, definitely check out this article though it is more focused on 8th beaming than the scenario I have addressed. https://www.musicnotes.com/now/musictheory/note-beaming-and-grouping-in-music-theory/
- m5 LH beat 2 (dotted half note) you could put Eb4 under the C and G, just to round out the chord since Eb2 is present in original. Could also add an Fn4 or Fn3 to the LH chord in m6 as well.
- m5 RH I'm not hearing the Dn under the G in beat 2
- m7, m11 RH beat 4 I don't think this 8th note is short enough to justify a staccato
- m7, m9 LH this first 8th note of the measure should be beamed to the next 8th note
- m8 LH beat 2-3 you could add the C under this half note, considering in the original the C is held for 3 beats
- m9 LH beats 3.5 and 4.5 I am not hearing these as shorter than the previous 8th notes, could remove the staccatos
- m10 LH beat 2 this would be an F# to keep with the G major key sig
- m14 You could keep the G in this measure a Gn4 and put it in the RH, and then move to an F#4 on beat 3 (which you can hear). This could be done by making a second layer in the RH like this:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/9UTCggV.png)
Quote from: Kricketune54- m6 RH the 2nd note hear doesn't sound like it is that much shorter, so I would remove the staccato. Staccatos don't usually make sense on 16th notes unless the tempo is quite slow.
- Reupping this about removing staccatos from 16th notes, applies for m2, m7, m9 and m11, and m14 RH. I would also emphasize this has to do with the fact that it's hard to replicate the staccato feel on a piano for a 16th note, and that is another reason why it's not typically seen.
QuoteI hope I don't have to justify every small change as I tried to still make it playable and in the spirit of the song.
This is not intended to be an argumentative process, nor a tedious one, but as a part of making sure NinSheetMusic sheets are hitting a high bar as far as their overall representative nature of the original track and their consistency with existing sheets on site, we'll voice suggestions and tips to meet that existing standard in addition to general note accuracy and formatting. Definitely don't feel like you have to justify everything, but as a part of the general updater approach if we see something that we feel requires some discussion, we'll raise it, and ideally later than earlier.
I think we've come to a good point with this track as far as meeting that standard broadly, and in the original's spirit, so hats off to you :)
One last thing: The system distribution of the four systems is a little wide; the tie near "arrangement by" and the notes towards the bottom near the copyright at the bottom are a bit out of the margins. I am not sure how you have been going about making edits (all in Notepad at this point, or making edits in MuseScore and then transferring over to Finale Notepad), but if you would like after you upload the changes, I can fix the system spread and the q= 74 tempo mark as well.
Updated.
I think I got everything.
Thanks for the feedback.
I am redoing everything in Musescore and then converting over. Small things like text I fix in Notepad. I'll look into what to adjust in Musescore to make it within print range.
Sorry didn't realize the photo wasn't showing up, but this is what I had suggested for m14:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/9UTCggV.png)
What you did is fine as far as notes, but it is a little confusing looking at the measure currently and seeing the F# half note without any previous rests or anything. So I would at least suggest unhiding the half rest in the bottom layer.
The font for the arranger credit should be italicized as well, my bad for not calling that out earlier.
Another thing I realized I missed that I wanted to call attention to was a dynamic. Sheets should always at the least have a starting dynamic; I think forte would be good for this one. Just make sure to center it under the first note of the piece.
The systems are still a bit wide , and the q=74 tempo marking still is a bit close and could move slightly higher up from current position.
I would also suggest changing some of the measure systems distributions; currently it's 4-5-5-2 measures per system. I think 4-4-3-4 or 4-4-4-3 would look better; generally you want to not have one or two measures on your last system, because it visually looks a bit stretched that way.
Some other stuff:
- m13 LH the quarter note B is actually two 8th notes (both B). There's technically a couple trumpet notes before this part but I think it's okay to sit on the An for two beats here.
- m14 LH remove the G on beat 1 (the only G in this measure is already in RH).
Quote from: Kricketune54-m5 RH I'm not hearing the Dn under the G in beat 2
- m7, m11 RH beat 4 I don't think this 8th note is short enough to justify a staccato
These bullets still need fixing. I know there has been a lot of stuff I've had you address, but you're nearly there and I'll approve it next time
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 28, 2023, 02:40:46 PMWhat you did is fine as far as notes, but it is a little confusing looking at the measure currently and seeing the F# half note without any previous rests or anything. So I would at least suggest unhiding the half rest in the bottom layer.
I formatted it the same way as shown in your image in Musescore, but when it converts to Notepad it ended up on the other side of the note.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 28, 2023, 02:40:46 PMThe systems are still a bit wide.
I still havent' figured out how to narrow the systems in Musescore.
I think I got it all this time.
Sorry to intrude, but I know from experience how painful Notepad is to work with. Here (https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/844835144242298910/1090539025808494692/Star_Fox_64_-_All_Clear_edit.mus) is a .mus file with basic adjustments made.
You should hopefully be able to make the rest of the changes you need from within Notepad, but if not you can ask me and I'll make them in regular Finale instead.
Thanks Xiao,
The files have been updated within the posting.
Thank you for helping Xiao!
I noticed the PDF appears to have had some issues as far as the articulations displaying correctly, I've corrected that with this file (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdtazeh1tocigwz/Star%20Fox%2064%20All%20Clear.pdf?dl=0) that you can replace the current one with.
Also had a couple late ideas that you can feel free to implement, I think the systems might be a little better having 3 measures on first line and 5 on the second. I also think you could have the LH do the same rhythms for part of the intro section, as there are technically two instruments playing that part. Feel free to use these files (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/75uef69a4xjgias19w00j/h?dl=0&rlkey=qm5bttzkk3l7c54guxd7s28j2) entirely instead of the PDF I linked but otherwise I'll approve
Quote from: Kricketune54 on March 31, 2023, 11:15:04 AMAlso had a couple late ideas that you can feel free to implement, I think the systems might be a little better having 3 measures on first line and 5 on the second. I also think you could have the LH do the same rhythms for part of the intro section, as there are technically two instruments playing that part.
Thanks Kriketune, I updated the post with your files. I completely missed the LH moving parallel to the RH. Thank you for pointing that out.
Thank you both for the hard work on this one! It's looking good, although I have a few broader things to point out about the arrangement in particular before diving too deep into details.
First is the rhythm for the intro. It's mostly correct, but does not properly fit into the time signature you're using here. I think the 16th notes + tuplet imply pickups to the start of a measure. Taken in that context lining up those notes with the beginnings of measures, we can see we have two 6-beat phrases followed by a few 4-beat phrases. You could also use 6/4 or 4/4 + 2/4 instead. But I think it's a lot more sensible this way, and the chords neatly line up with 4-beat measures leading into the loop. The 16th note rhythm leading into the last chord was incorrect before.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401094846107877377/1105260079260897392/image.png
Second is the lack of any bass at all in the first half. The notes you wrote in are mostly correct, but having no low notes hurts the arrangement in two ways - you're missing the roots of the chords, and you're missing out on a heavier sound to match the original. Playing the piece as currently written has a light and empty sort of sound when compared to the original. Since the right hand is inactive when the left hand is playing chords, you can easily have the left hand play the low bass notes and have the right hand play the chords instead. I can provide specific suggestions for writing this if you need.
Lastly, while the tonality of the first half is a bit ambiguous, the main loop should definitely be written in G major (one sharp).
Let me know what you think; I can definitely help you make updates to the files due to Notepad limitations.
Quote from: Latios212 on May 08, 2023, 03:36:39 PMFirst is the rhythm for the intro. It's mostly correct, but does not properly fit into the time signature you're using here. I think the 16th notes + tuplet imply pickups to the start of a measure. Taken in that context lining up those notes with the beginnings of measures, we can see we have two 6-beat phrases followed by a few 4-beat phrases. You could also use 6/4 or 4/4 + 2/4 instead. But I think it's a lot more sensible this way, and the chords neatly line up with 4-beat measures leading into the loop. The 16th note rhythm leading into the last chord was incorrect before.
I matched up the notation as you had shown, however I dislike the A in m4 and G in LH m7. I really dislike that clashing sound. I prefer to exclude.
Quote from: Latios212 on May 08, 2023, 03:36:39 PMSecond is the lack of any bass at all in the first half. The notes you wrote in are mostly correct, but having no low notes hurts the arrangement in two ways - you're missing the roots of the chords, and you're missing out on a heavier sound to match the original. Playing the piece as currently written has a light and empty sort of sound when compared to the original. Since the right hand is inactive when the left hand is playing chords, you can easily have the left hand play the low bass notes and have the right hand play the chords instead. I can provide specific suggestions for writing this if you need.
I rewrote it in a way that is doable, though using the 15va and 8va is my initial reaction to writing it w/o using clefs. I added a pedal mark to beat 1 so there is no gap in the sounds.
Hey Fernman, sorry for the wait. I meant to follow up on my comments but I haven't been able to devote the time and energy to this sheet that it needs. Bloop will help follow up with the rest to help you get things polished up~
Here's the Bloop-follow up! Some of these things may not be possible in Finale Notepad/converting from musescore, so let me know if you need any help with these ^^
-Officially, pick-up measures (m1 in this sheet) should be excluded from measure numbering. I'll use the original measure numbers for now though, so if it's possible to change measure numbers, save this for last!
-m1 (the pickup) and 3: It might look better to include the bracket of the 16th triplets, like in m1 in the R.H. This way, it's easier to distinguish between the triplet and the normal 16ths.
-m2, 4, 6 and 7: Instead of using 15ma and 8va markings in the L.H., I'd strongly suggest using the bass clef for these sections. That reads a lot easier than reading treble clef in the R.H. and then moving it down one or two octaves. For the pedal marks, you could add an optional middle pedal mark (sost. pedal) so the notes can be held throughout the chords. A normal pedal mark may even work as well, though it will sound a bit muddy.
-m2, 4 and 6: I hear another trumpet note under the L.H.: a D in m2, a G in m4, and a B in m6.
-m7 and 8: I hear a low Eb in m7 and a low F in m8. You could keep all of the harmony in the R.H.: it's G-C-D-G in both measures. In m7, I hear a D under the G's in beat 4.5 and 4.75 too.
-m8: Usually for new sections with new key signatures, it looks nice to have a double barline before the keysignature (the barline at the end of this measure).
-m9 and on: In the L.H., it might look nice to have the long low brass notes in a separate layer, like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1147629992004567170/image.png
That way it's clearer what both voices are, and the player can than choose to simplify by playing only the bottom voice instead of both.
-m13 and 15: Is there a specific reason you didn't put in all 8ths of the trumpet voice in the L.H., like how you did in m9 and 11? In m15 beat 1.5-2.5 I can understand it, since the R.H. is playing that C already, but besides that there's nothing in the way of the R.H.
-m14: I'm not sure if the C-D second in the L.H. fits that well, since the trumpet and trombone voice are kinda in the way of each other. The D-C suspension is (sorta) there in the R.H. too, so maybe you can leave out the D in the L.H.?
-m16: The dot of the quarter note in the R.H. on beat 1 is clashing with the half note in the other layer. You could try moving it around a bit, or switch the places of the half note and the dotted quarter note (so the half note is on the left)
-m17: Did you mean to have a repeat bar at the end of the optional ending?
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-Officially, pick-up measures (m1 in this sheet) should be excluded from measure numbering. I'll use the original measure numbers for now though, so if it's possible to change measure numbers, save this for last!
-m1 (the pickup) and 3: It might look better to include the bracket of the 16th triplets, like in m1 in the R.H. This way, it's easier to distinguish between the triplet and the normal 16ths.
Fixed
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m2, 4, 6 and 7: Instead of using 15ma and 8va markings in the L.H., I'd strongly suggest using the bass clef for these sections. That reads a lot easier than reading treble clef in the R.H. and then moving it down one or two octaves. For the pedal marks, you could add an optional middle pedal mark (sost. pedal) so the notes can be held throughout the chords. A normal pedal mark may even work as well, though it will sound a bit muddy.
I made the change, but since I didn't want the notes so high off the bass clef staff I am alternating between treble and bass clefs, which I'm not a fan of. I find it easier to know it is a G (in the treble) and then go two octaves down and play it there, than to change to bass clef thinking and to find that note, and then back to treble. Though I'm not sure what are "standard notation practices." Did I do the sost pedal notation correctly.
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m2, 4 and 6: I hear another trumpet note under the L.H.: a D in m2, a G in m4, and a B in m6.
I think I hear the D in m2, that is the Timpani, either that or I'm fooling myself because it sounds "fuller"
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m7 and 8: I hear a low Eb in m7 and a low F in m8. You could keep all of the harmony in the R.H.: it's G-C-D-G in both measures. In m7, I hear a D under the G's in beat 4.5 and 4.75 too.
Added, but Since the Low notes cannot be reached with the other notes I changed it to a 2nd voice
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m8: Usually for new sections with new key signatures, it looks nice to have a double barline before the keysignature (the barline at the end of this measure).
Musescore's barlines pallette for a start repeat only have what is in the arrangement. I don't know of a way to add a double barline and a repeat symbol.
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m9 and on: In the L.H., it might look nice to have the long low brass notes in a separate layer, like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1147629992004567170/image.png
That way it's clearer what both voices are, and the player can than choose to simplify by playing only the bottom voice instead of both.
OK sure, if that is how voicing works in this case.
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m13 and 15: Is there a specific reason you didn't put in all 8ths of the trumpet voice in the L.H., like how you did in m9 and 11? In m15 beat 1.5-2.5 I can understand it, since the R.H. is playing that C already, but besides that there's nothing in the way of the R.H.
That was an oversight,
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m14: I'm not sure if the C-D second in the L.H. fits that well, since the trumpet and trombone voice are kinda in the way of each other. The D-C suspension is (sorta) there in the R.H. too, so maybe you can leave out the D in the L.H.?
I rather leave out the C in the LH since the D sounds like a continuation of the previous measure, whereas the C does not.
Quote from: Bloop on September 02, 2023, 01:41:01 PM-m16: The dot of the quarter note in the R.H. on beat 1 is clashing with the half note in the other layer. You could try moving it around a bit, or switch the places of the half note and the dotted quarter note (so the half note is on the left)
-m17: Did you mean to have a repeat bar at the end of the optional ending?
Ok you mean they are overlapping, i played with the note properties and hopefully it turned out right, it did.
Repeat is removed
I appreciate the feedback Bloop! Thanks so much.
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMI made the change, but since I didn't want the notes so high off the bass clef staff I am alternating between treble and bass clefs, which I'm not a fan of. I find it easier to know it is a G (in the treble) and then go two octaves down and play it there, than to change to bass clef thinking and to find that note, and then back to treble. Though I'm not sure what are "standard notation practices."
Switching between clefs actually reads easier once you're comfortable with reading in bass clef. After some practice, it's possible to map every note from one or two ledger lines above or below the bass and treble cleff to the exact pitch on the piano: reading the G in m1 beat 2 for example, I know to play exactly the G2 on the piano. However, notated in treble clef with 15ma, at first I have to find the G4 (G above middle C), and then I have to calculate the two octaves down to find the exact note that's notated.
The usual use case is to use 8vas if the notes go very low under the bass clef, or if the notes go very high above the treble cleff. 15mas are usually only reserved if an 8va isn't clear enough, which is pretty much only when you play in the absolute highest octave of the piano.
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMDid I do the sost pedal notation correctly.
I still see the brackets as they were before right? If you want the player to hold the notes on beat 1 for the whole of beat 1, you can keep it as is, or use any of these pedal marks:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/921844351590625331/unknown.pnghttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/921845488720953344/unknown.png
If you want to use the sostenuto pedal, you can write it out like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/1147814341815574609/image.png
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMI think I hear the D in m2, that is the Timpani, either that or I'm fooling myself because it sounds "fuller"
I actually meant on beat 1 in those bars! So like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/1147814655973130321/image.png
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMAdded, but Since the Low notes cannot be reached with the other notes I changed it to a 2nd voice
With "keep the harmony" I actually meant removing the notes you originally had in the L.H. and placing them in the R.H.:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/1147815080667394058/image.png
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMMusescore's barlines pallette for a start repeat only have what is in the arrangement. I don't know of a way to add a double barline and a repeat symbol.
Here's a file (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f0obat0va9x5u00iz06ls/Star-Fox-64-All-Clear-bloop-edits.mus?rlkey=5wriah0r65tqaiwkpd2y9ef7o&dl=0) with the repeat barline added, as well as some of the other pedal options included if you prefer one of those, as I don't think they are there in Notepad. I already included some other changes I took screenshots of, as well as these small things:
-Removed the abbreviated Pno. after the first system
-Spaced the staves a bit so the dynamics fit a bit nicer in-between staves.
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMThat was an oversight
You're still missing some notes in m12 that could easily be included:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1147818293726564393/image.png
Quote from: Fernman on September 02, 2023, 08:08:17 PMI rather leave out the C in the LH since the D sounds like a continuation of the previous measure, whereas the C does not.
It's true the C doesn't sound as a continuation of that trumpet line, but it's the continuation of the low bass voice. There's a noticable shift in chords on beat 1 of m13 in the original, but now it's delayed until beat 2. I'd still suggest keeping the dotted half note C, or alternatively, going back to what you had originally if you still prefer keeping the D (like this:)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1147817810878279721/image.png
Some other things I noticed (not in the file I posted):
-In m10, is there a specific reason you added the staccatos in the L.H. on beat 3.5 and 4.5? I don't hear these that much different from m8 for example, and I think they're not as necessary given that the player has to lift the finger to restrike them anyway.
-In m14, the rests in the L.H. should be just one half rest. After playing around with it a bit, maybe you could actually add the C's on beat 1.5-2.5 too, it doesn't sound that bad (especially with pedal). Up to you though what you prefer ^^
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 02:06:11 AMI still see the brackets as they were before right? If you want the player to hold the notes on beat 1 for the whole of beat 1, you can keep it as is, or use any of these pedal marks:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/921844351590625331/unknown.pnghttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/921845488720953344/unknown.png
If you want to use the sostenuto pedal, you can write it out like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918880202795384852/1147814341815574609/image.png
the text didn't carry over from Musescore the first time, so I manually added it in Notepad
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 02:06:11 AMI actually meant on beat 1 in those bars! So like this:
Fixed
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 02:06:11 AMI already included some other changes I took screenshots of, as well as these small things:
-Removed the abbreviated Pno. after the first system
-Spaced the staves a bit so the dynamics fit a bit nicer in-between staves.
I worked from the Musescore file since I couldn't edit much of the document in Notepad. So this will have to be addressed at the end of all the fedback.
Somehow the barlines turned out correctly upon conversion.
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 02:06:11 AMYou're still missing some notes in m12 that could easily be included:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1147818293726564393/image.png
I hear the trumpet holding its note on beat 2, just like the Flutes in the RH. I don't hear a repeated trumpet notes in the LH, if another instrument is playing it, it is not audible or noticeable.
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 02:06:11 AMIt's true the C doesn't sound as a continuation of that trumpet line, but it's the continuation of the low bass voice. There's a noticable shift in chords on beat 1 of m13 in the original, but now it's delayed until beat 2. I'd still suggest keeping the dotted half note C, or alternatively, going back to what you had originally if you still prefer keeping the D (like this:)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1147817810878279721/image.png
I picked the C & D notes.
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 02:06:11 AMSome other things I noticed (not in the file I posted):
-In m10, is there a specific reason you added the staccatos in the L.H. on beat 3.5 and 4.5? I don't hear these that much different from m8 for example, and I think they're not as necessary given that the player has to lift the finger to restrike them anyway.
-In m14, the rests in the L.H. should be just one half rest. After playing around with it a bit, maybe you could actually add the C's on beat 1.5-2.5 too, it doesn't sound that bad (especially with pedal). Up to you though what you prefer ^^
first one is a typo,
I added the C's just so the player has an option, i might warm up to it after a while too.
Quote from: Fernman on September 03, 2023, 09:24:48 AMI worked from the Musescore file since I couldn't edit much of the document in Notepad. So this will have to be addressed at the end of all the fedback.
The file I posted (click here (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f0obat0va9x5u00iz06ls/Star-Fox-64-All-Clear-bloop-edits.mus?rlkey=5wriah0r65tqaiwkpd2y9ef7o&dl=0)) has all the changes I mentioned implemented already, the only thing you'll have to edit in there is stuff related to notes, so you don't necessarily have to convert from musescore anymore. If you still prefer converting from musescore though, these should be fixed as well:
-m2: The two 16th notes before the 16th triplet in both hands should have their beams disconnected
-m5: The two quarter notes on beats 3-4 should be a half note in both hands.
-m14: The 8th rest on beat 1 in the L.H. should be a little bit lower, and the notes in the upper layer should be flipped upwards.
Quote from: Fernman on September 03, 2023, 09:24:48 AMI hear the trumpet holding its note on beat 2, just like the Flutes in the RH. I don't hear a repeated trumpet notes in the LH, if another instrument is playing it, it is not audible or noticeable.
I definitely hear the trumpet restriking those notes though? It's not a volume swell or vibrato, to me they all have the same attack.
Quote from: Fernman on September 03, 2023, 09:24:48 AMthe text didn't carry over from Musescore the first time, so I manually added it in Notepad
It'll probably look better to have the "Sost. ped." marking below the note you want to have pedaled, instead of before, like in the screenshot I posted.
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 12:02:59 PMThe file I posted (click here (https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/f0obat0va9x5u00iz06ls/Star-Fox-64-All-Clear-bloop-edits.mus?rlkey=5wriah0r65tqaiwkpd2y9ef7o&dl=0)) has all the changes I mentioned implemented already, the only thing you'll have to edit in there is stuff related to notes, so you don't necessarily have to convert from musescore anymore. If you still prefer converting from musescore though, these should be fixed as well:
-m2: The two 16th notes before the 16th triplet in both hands should have their beams disconnected
-m5: The two quarter notes on beats 3-4 should be a half note in both hands.
-m14: The 8th rest on beat 1 in the L.H. should be a little bit lower, and the notes in the upper layer should be flipped upwards.
These are fixed, I can't edit your 3 different styles of pedal marking in Notepad, so I can't work with it.
Quote from: Bloop on September 03, 2023, 12:02:59 PMI definitely hear the trumpet restriking those notes though? It's not a volume swell or vibrato, to me they all have the same attack.
It'll probably look better to have the "Sost. ped." marking below the note you want to have pedaled, instead of before, like in the screenshot I posted.
I turned up the volume and now I hear what repeated notes you are pointing out, in the song they sound the same as the prior three times in m8 and m10. Then in m12 a new trumpet overpowers these notes and becomes the focal point. I would prefer to give priority to the overpowering trumpet as this is what a player would remember from the song.
Edit: I've been thinking. Does the typical ninsheet piano player have a third pedal on their piano? If they have a high end electric or upright they might, but if they have a middle of the road upright or less, or a typical electric they may not. I certainly don't have sostenuto pedal on either my acoustic or electric. So while I followed your recommendation to use the sostenuto pedal marking, what would you think if I were to revert the pedal marking back to only being on the first note of the measure so it is accessible to those of us without the third pedal?
Quote from: Fernman on September 03, 2023, 01:51:43 PMThese are fixed, I can't edit your 3 different styles of pedal marking in Notepad, so I can't work with it.
Ah yeah, I thought you would've been able to copy them but apparently not. In that case, I'll make sure to add the proper pedal markings in the final sheet.
Quote from: Fernman on September 03, 2023, 01:51:43 PMI turned up the volume and now I hear what repeated notes you are pointing out, in the song they sound the same as the prior three times in m8 and m10. Then in m12 a new trumpet overpowers these notes and becomes the focal point. I would prefer to give priority to the overpowering trumpet as this is what a player would remember from the song.
I can very clearly hear the trumpet being rearticulated too. Listen to how the B's in the trumpet at 0:27 sound, compared to the longer D and C in 0:30: there's a little cut-off between the four B's in 0:27, but the D and C sound long and smooth without any cut-offs. The same thing happens in m14 and 15. What I had in the file I posted is still what I hear.
Quote from: Fernman on September 03, 2023, 01:51:43 PMEdit: I've been thinking. Does the typical ninsheet piano player have a third pedal on their piano? If they have a high end electric or upright they might, but if they have a middle of the road upright or less, or a typical electric they may not. I certainly don't have sostenuto pedal on either my acoustic or electric. So while I followed your recommendation to use the sostenuto pedal marking, what would you think if I were to revert the pedal marking back to only being on the first note of the measure so it is accessible to those of us without the third pedal?
There's probably not a lot of people who have a middle sostenuto pedal (I don't either), which is why I usually prefer not requiring it either, so I agree with you on that. With the normal pedal mark you can actually extend it up to the the F major chord like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1188081039680229466/image.png?ex=659939b1&is=6586c4b1&hm=5d8e74f7f27ee1f8a275de3bcbd84e1f3b5ffaa9dbab52ed365eacb6b627c34c&
Quote from: Bloop on December 23, 2023, 03:31:47 AMI can very clearly hear the trumpet being rearticulated too. Listen to how the B's in the trumpet at 0:27 sound, compared to the longer D and C in 0:30: there's a little cut-off between the four B's in 0:27, but the D and C sound long and smooth without any cut-offs. The same thing happens in m14 and 15. What I had in the file I posted is still what I hear.
ok, now I do hear the rearticulated trumpet in m12, though it doesn't sound
as clearly articulated as measures 14 or 15. Without the music in my ear paying close attention to it (like playing on TV), it sounds like a held note. Though now that you pointed it out I can't unhear it, so I matched your suggestion.
Quote from: Bloop on December 23, 2023, 03:31:47 AMThere's probably not a lot of people who have a middle sostenuto pedal (I don't either), which is why I usually prefer not requiring it either, so I agree with you on that. With the normal pedal mark you can actually extend it up to the the F major chord like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1188081039680229466/image.png?ex=659939b1&is=6586c4b1&hm=5d8e74f7f27ee1f8a275de3bcbd84e1f3b5ffaa9dbab52ed365eacb6b627c34c&
I used the same style pedal marking as you in Musescore, but it completely changed on conversion, either through the converter app, or notepad's interpretation. Though it is the modern pedal marking, I think they are in the right place where the player lifts right before the F chord.
Quote from: Fernman on December 25, 2023, 09:38:47 AMok, now I do hear the rearticulated trumpet in m12, though it doesn't sound as clearly articulated as measures 14 or 15. Without the music in my ear paying close attention to it (like playing on TV), it sounds like a held note. Though now that you pointed it out I can't unhear it, so I matched your suggestion.
Measure 12 looks great like this, but I still insist on m14 needing a similar treatment. The rearticulation is very clear to me, especially when it rearticulates the same note. (btw make sure to move the 8th rest at beat 1 in the L.H. down to a similar height as in m10)
Quote from: Fernman on December 25, 2023, 09:38:47 AMI used the same style pedal marking as you in Musescore, but it completely changed on conversion, either through the converter app, or notepad's interpretation. Though it is the modern pedal marking, I think they are in the right place where the player lifts right before the F chord.
I'd probably prefer that marking too haha, or at least a little bit of text saying "Ped." at the start of the pedal mark, as I rarely see pedal marks being just brackets in official sheet music. But I can add those in for you if you want in the final file! There are also some other things formatting-wise that I could edit for you, as I think some of those things aren't possible in Notepad:
-Removing the abbreviated "Pno." markings;
-Adding brackets to the triplets in the first measure (I recall them being there before, but they're all gone now?);
-Adding a double barline before the key change in m8;
-Increasing the distance between staves in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th systems, so there's a bit more room for the mf marking in m8, the beams in m9 don't clash, and the beams in m14 don't get too close to the R.H.
Quote from: Bloop on December 27, 2023, 05:14:00 AMMeasure 12 looks great like this, but I still insist on m14 needing a similar treatment. The rearticulation is very clear to me, especially when it rearticulates the same note. (btw make sure to move the 8th rest at beat 1 in the L.H. down to a similar height as in m10)
oh yes I missed this detail. I can't get the rest in the right spot converting from musescore without a lot of trial and error
Quote from: Bloop on December 27, 2023, 05:14:00 AMI'd probably prefer that marking too haha, or at least a little bit of text saying "Ped." at the start of the pedal mark, as I rarely see pedal marks being just brackets in official sheet music. But I can add those in for you if you want in the final file! There are also some other things formatting-wise that I could edit for you, as I think some of those things aren't possible in Notepad:
-Removing the abbreviated "Pno." markings;
-Adding brackets to the triplets in the first measure (I recall them being there before, but they're all gone now?);
-Adding a double barline before the key change in m8;
-Increasing the distance between staves in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th systems, so there's a bit more room for the mf marking in m8, the beams in m9 don't clash, and the beams in m14 don't get too close to the R.H.
I remember adding the brackets in long ago, not sure why they are not there anymore... If you could take care of the formatting I would appreciate it. I'm good with adding "Ped." at the start.
Hopefully that is everything...
Awesome! I attached the files to this post with the edits I mentioned. If you think they look good, you can upload these and I'm ready to accept!
Yes looks good thanks!
Awesome, then I can finally accept!
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/895351643024015360/906174892746108988/BloopApproves2.png)
This submission has been accepted by Bloop (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1023).
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