oops my hand slipped
Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest [SNES]
| Hot-Head Bop | | MUS (https://tinyurl.com/y9om9mbq) | | MUSX (https://tinyurl.com/y946pz8l) | | MIDI (https://tinyurl.com/y9m55ulv) | | PDF (https://tinyurl.com/y89k2y5e) | | Original (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odtCi91aM2Y) |
This one was in my backlog, so I figured I'd polish it up a bit. The formatting & margins were way off when I took a look at it, so please let me know if there's anything I need to change.
Quick pop-in, are you not able to access dropbox? And the YouTube link to this track is dead
Quote from: Kricketune54 on August 11, 2023, 12:49:04 PMQuick pop-in, are you not able to access dropbox?
I just added it to the folder.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on August 11, 2023, 12:49:04 PMAnd the YouTube link to this track is dead
Fixed.
A few comments just skimming as I pass by:
- Any particular reason the staves are shrunken considerably? None of the music is particularly cramped and it'd do fine sized up a bit. Also, the title/subtitle and composer/arranger have some rather large gaps between them.
- You might want to consider octave tremolos instead of single note tremolos which are easier to execute on piano (and sound good generally).
- The upper layer rests in m. 25-27, etc. can be moved to their normal heights on the staff Conversely, the lower layer ones might be better below the staff instead of awkwardly half-on the staff.
- Trying to think of a way to clean up the ties in 89 a bit but not really coming up with anything great...
Quote from: Latios212 on August 21, 2023, 05:41:25 PM- Any particular reason the staves are shrunken considerably? None of the music is particularly cramped and it'd do fine sized up a bit. Also, the title/subtitle and composer/arranger have some rather large gaps between them.
Not really. That's just mostly how it was when I found it. I've made everything a bit bigger.
Quote from: Latios212 on August 21, 2023, 05:41:25 PM- You might want to consider octave tremolos instead of single note tremolos which are easier to execute on piano (and sound good generally).
Good idea!
Quote from: Latios212 on August 21, 2023, 05:41:25 PM- The upper layer rests in m. 25-27, etc. can be moved to their normal heights on the staff Conversely, the lower layer ones might be better below the staff instead of awkwardly half-on the staff.
Done.
Quote from: Latios212 on August 21, 2023, 05:41:25 PM- Trying to think of a way to clean up the ties in 89 a bit but not really coming up with anything great...
saaaaaaame
• You could lower page 1 system 1 dynamics a bit, just so the tempo information isn't so high.
• You could space the parentheses in m29 and throughout the arrangement a bit better around the notehead (move them down a little and away from the notehead)
• 8vas on page 4; move the beginning part a bit to the left and the end a bit to the left as well (beat 4 for m69 for example is hard to tell if it is also meant to be under the ottava)
• m50, m54 RH 4.5 there is a restruck An that is more prominent than the F
• m65 RH plays swing eights? Not sure what this instruction is communicating in this particular measure, also it should be swing eighths not eights
Quote from: Kricketune54 on August 27, 2023, 07:44:17 PM• You could lower page 1 system 1 dynamics a bit, just so the tempo information isn't so high.
• You could space the parentheses in m29 and throughout the arrangement a bit better around the notehead (move them down a little and away from the notehead)
• 8vas on page 4; move the beginning part a bit to the left and the end a bit to the left as well (beat 4 for m69 for example is hard to tell if it is also meant to be under the ottava)
Done
Quote from: Kricketune54 on August 27, 2023, 07:44:17 PM• m50, m54 RH 4.5 there is a restruck An that is more prominent than the F
I think that's the echo from a delayed second sound channel playing the A from beat 4
Quote from: Kricketune54 on August 27, 2023, 07:44:17 PM• m65 RH plays swing eights? Not sure what this instruction is communicating in this particular measure, also it should be swing eighths not eights
In m.41 I have an instruction "
RH plays straight eighths". The instruction in m65 is the sister to that one, telling the player that they can go back to swing. I did at least fix the spelling, though.
Quote from: Yug_Guy on September 02, 2023, 12:14:15 PMDone
Not to be a total stickler but was thinking something a little more centered on the notehead for m29,35, and 37:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/qpYDE4Q.png)
QuoteI think that's the echo from a delayed second sound channel playing the A from beat 4
Hmm okay sounds like that is the case. Lot of echo in this part haha
QuoteIn m.41 I have an instruction "RH plays straight eighths". The instruction in m65 is the sister to that one, telling the player that they can go back to swing. I did at least fix the spelling, though.
Okay gotcha. I misread the first plays straight eighths if I'm being honest.
•For m35 RH beat 1 how is the A intended to be played? I understand it's parenthesied but I'm not sure it's possible in any way, maybe just exclude or move up an octave?
•m77 RH you could drag the 8va symbol's tail end out a little so it looks like this, I think this would make it a little more obvious that it's a continuation from last page and that it ends, but not a big deal:
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/zuSNv3S.png)
That's probably going to do it for me, nice job on this
Quote from: Kricketune54 on September 04, 2023, 06:23:17 PMNot to be a total stickler but was thinking something a little more centered on the notehead for m29,35, and 37
m77 RH you could drag the 8va symbol's tail end out a little so it looks like this, I think this would make it a little more obvious that it's a continuation from last page and that it ends, but not a big deal
Done
Quote from: Kricketune54 on September 04, 2023, 06:23:17 PMFor m35 RH beat 1 how is the A intended to be played? I understand it's parenthesied but I'm not sure it's possible in any way, maybe just exclude or move up an octave?
I think I'm mostly just keeping it there for consistency's sake; just so there's not one out-of-place rest ruining everything. Though, if you really want me to remove it, I'll do it.
Quote from: Yug_Guy on September 07, 2023, 05:17:56 PMDone
Hmm I'm still seeing all the parentheses displaying the way that they were previously. Screenshotted current file of what I'm seeing (maybe it's a Finale version thing if this looks differently on your end, but see my example in the previous post. I was saying to center the parentheses on the notehead, a bit like how m36 is currently
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/0v1RHIo.png)
QuoteI think I'm mostly just keeping it there for consistency's sake; just so there's not one out-of-place rest ruining everything. Though, if you really want me to remove it, I'll do it.
You could move this up an octave for playability, but I suppose it's not hurting anything to be visually consistent
Quote from: Kricketune54 on September 09, 2023, 08:24:11 PMHmm I'm still seeing all the parentheses displaying the way that they were previously. Screenshotted current file of what I'm seeing (maybe it's a Finale version thing if this looks differently on your end, but see my example in the previous post. I was saying to center the parentheses on the notehead, a bit like how m36 is currently
I was trying to use the arrow keys to move the parenthesis, but clearly it was not moving to the level of precision needed. Should be finally finished, now.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on September 09, 2023, 08:24:11 PMYou could move this up an octave for playability, but I suppose it's not hurting anything to be visually consistent
I'll keep the visual consistency. I think it communicates important information to the performer.
Alright great! At that, I will approve Hot-Head Bop
Nice work on this! Just a few general comments:
-m1: The f at the L.H. could be moved right a bit so it's centered under the first note.
-m1-16: The (tremolo) strings are quite high, maybe you could move these octave tremolos an octave up (i.e. adding an 8va)?
-m65 until end: There are some parts where you tried adding back in the guitar voice when the piano or synth are holding long notes, but some of these aren't physically playable because of the distance or the finger acrobatics required. Maybe you could recheck what parts are playable and which aren't, and try to see if the L.H. can play some of these notes instead, or if it's better to change octaves or just leave out the voice (the latter would have my personal preference I think)
-I'm not sure if the L.H. necessarily needs to be an octave down? When it keeps to the A-F range it's still alright, but the D's in m73 start to get a bit low and rumbly, and together with the very high piano part there's a lot of empty space in the middle. Another thing you could do instead of moving everything up an octave, is moving most off-beat 8th notes in the L.H. up an octave, so the swung notes are a bit easier to play and also the low to low-mid register is a bit more filled up.
Quote from: Bloop on October 17, 2023, 01:14:10 PM-m1: The f at the L.H. could be moved right a bit so it's centered under the first note.
Done
Quote from: Bloop on October 17, 2023, 01:14:10 PM-m1-16: The (tremolo) strings are quite high, maybe you could move these octave tremolos an octave up (i.e. adding an 8va)?
While I like this idea, I'm not sure if adding 8va's to the page would even fit on the page.
Quote from: Bloop on October 17, 2023, 01:14:10 PM-m65 until end: There are some parts where you tried adding back in the guitar voice when the piano or synth are holding long notes, but some of these aren't physically playable because of the distance or the finger acrobatics required. Maybe you could recheck what parts are playable and which aren't, and try to see if the L.H. can play some of these notes instead, or if it's better to change octaves or just leave out the voice (the latter would have my personal preference I think)
Yeah, probably better to give at least one extra beat of rest to reach a note. I ended up scrapping the accompaniment in m74-75 though, since it would have only been two notes.
Quote from: Bloop on October 17, 2023, 01:14:10 PM-I'm not sure if the L.H. necessarily needs to be an octave down? When it keeps to the A-F range it's still alright, but the D's in m73 start to get a bit low and rumbly, and together with the very high piano part there's a lot of empty space in the middle. Another thing you could do instead of moving everything up an octave, is moving most off-beat 8th notes in the L.H. up an octave, so the swung notes are a bit easier to play and also the low to low-mid register is a bit more filled up.
So, I went and double-checked, but I believe that the pitches for the bassline for this arrangement are one-to-one with the pitches in the original song. Now, I am more than willing to shift the whole thing up an octave, but I know that our policy is "as close to the original as possible." If you're okay with me breaking form, then I'll do it.
Quote from: Yug_Guy on October 17, 2023, 05:34:25 PMWhile I like this idea, I'm not sure if adding 8va's to the page would even fit on the page.
No worries, there's still quite a bit of space left on the first page to move around dynamics and stuff ^^
Quote from: Yug_Guy on October 17, 2023, 05:34:25 PMYeah, probably better to give at least one extra beat of rest to reach a note. I ended up scrapping the accompaniment in m74-75 though, since it would have only been two notes.
My problem wasn't necessarily with the time needed to reach the notes, but more that the tied notes aren't able to be held down for their full length (or even an portion of their length), if you want the player to reach some notes of the guitar voice. For example, in m81-82, the player would need to release the E of the C-E dyad in layer 1 on beat 2 of m81 already, and by m82 beat two there's no way for the R.H. to hold the dyad. Using the pedal will also hold the notes in the L.H., which might work too actually, but may sound a bit weird compared to the rest of the song.
Quote from: Yug_Guy on October 17, 2023, 05:34:25 PMSo, I went and double-checked, but I believe that the pitches for the bassline for this arrangement are one-to-one with the pitches in the original song. Now, I am more than willing to shift the whole thing up an octave, but I know that our policy is "as close to the original as possible." If you're okay with me breaking form, then I'll do it.
As close to the original doesn't have to be as close to the original pitches, imo: the lowest octave on the piano sounds more rumbly compared to the same notes on a bass guitar. By moving them up an octave. Lately I've been thinking a bit more about playability and the sound of an arrangement, and sometimes trying to include as much as possible won't necessarily sound better or play more easily.
Quote from: Bloop on October 18, 2023, 06:15:11 AMNo worries, there's still quite a bit of space left on the first page to move around dynamics and stuff ^^
I think I've got it. Let me know if it's too cramped.
Quote from: Bloop on October 18, 2023, 06:15:11 AMAs close to the original doesn't have to be as close to the original pitches, imo: the lowest octave on the piano sounds more rumbly compared to the same notes on a bass guitar. By moving them up an octave. Lately I've been thinking a bit more about playability and the sound of an arrangement, and sometimes trying to include as much as possible won't necessarily sound better or play more easily.
Yeah, I guess I'm too used to notating exact pitches lol.
I've taken out the 8vb and left a note saying that the bass can be optionally double one octave down.
Quote from: Bloop on October 18, 2023, 06:15:11 AMMy problem wasn't necessarily with the time needed to reach the notes, but more that the tied notes aren't able to be held down for their full length (or even an portion of their length), if you want the player to reach some notes of the guitar voice. For example, in m81-82, the player would need to release the E of the C-E dyad in layer 1 on beat 2 of m81 already, and by m82 beat two there's no way for the R.H. to hold the dyad. Using the pedal will also hold the notes in the L.H., which might work too actually, but may sound a bit weird compared to the rest of the song.
Whenever I have a held note + some accompaniment, I don't usually expect the performer to hold down the note for the length written. I suppose I could just let it be quarter notes instead, but that just feels wrong.
Honestly, I'm kinda stumped on what to do here. Do you have any advice?
Quote from: Yug_Guy on October 22, 2023, 04:52:51 PMWhenever I have a held note + some accompaniment, I don't usually expect the performer to hold down the note for the length written. I suppose I could just let it be quarter notes instead, but that just feels wrong.
I might be a bit strict about that sometimes, but I usually think of how the player would interpret the sheet music, and I'd feel it wouldn't make sense in cases like m81-83 to tie over the chord over two barlines, when the player can't possibly hold it for that long (without pedal). Another thing btw that feels a bit weird to me is that the voice itself drops in and out whenever needed, sometimes for pretty short times, which makes it feel more disconnected.
Quote from: Yug_Guy on October 22, 2023, 04:52:51 PMHonestly, I'm kinda stumped on what to do here. Do you have any advice?
What I might have done is to fill in the empty space with an arranged version of the drums combined with the bass:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/863709312067829811/1168979214976942170/image.png?ex=6553bbbb&is=654146bb&hm=283bdd665937e867eca846d6d2c16173c8cf7f15332a1c3ff30c87a0471dee6b&
It helps differentiate this section from the previous sections, and it makes sure the arrangement doesn't feel too empty.
If you really want to keep the guitar voice though, here's two other things you could do:
-You could notate the guitar voice in smaller noteheads and leave a note saying they're optional. I'm not too keen on this idea though, because if left out the arrangement will probably sound emptier than you want.
-You could add pedal marks for three bars in every system, so the guitar notes at least somewhat ring on and fill the empty register, and the melody (and chords from m81 on) won't be cut off early. The voice dropping in and out might still sound a little bit weird, but maybe less so.
I've been looking over this feedback & while I absolutely see where you're coming from, I just cannot bring myself to do these kinds of changes. I've never been one to significantly change any part of the original song for the sake of transference to piano, even if that leaves the piece a bit lacking. I guess I expect others to perform arrangements like these the same way that I do: by leaving out any of the bits that are too hard or impractical.
Not really sure where to go from here tbh.
Went over it a little with Bloop over Discord, ended up taking the small noteheads idea as seen here:
Quote from: Bloop on October 31, 2023, 11:34:28 AM-You could notate the guitar voice in smaller noteheads and leave a note saying they're optional
Let me know if you have any other issues.
No comments anymore for me, I'm ready to accept!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/895351643024015360/906174892746108988/BloopApproves2.png