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Other => Off-Topic => The Werewolf Game => Topic started by: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 04:53:41 PM

Title: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 04:53:41 PM
Congrats wolves!

Role reveal:
1. A# Minor: Wolf
2. XiaoMigros: Human
3. TheZeldaPianist275:  Human
4. ThatHiddenCharacter: Innocent Child
5. SpecsFlyer17:  Human
6. BlackDragonSlayer:  Human
7. The Musical Poet:  Human
8. threalmathguy: Wolf
9. Toby:  Human

Final board:
TheZeldaPianist275XA# Minor
OXX
XOO

Night actions:
N1: A# Minor wolfs XiaoMigros
N2: A# Minor wolfs ThatHiddenCharacter
N3: A# Minor wolfs Toby
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: A# Minor on November 16, 2023, 04:53:56 PM
WOOOOOO I WINNNNN
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 04:54:09 PM
Recap:
Day 1: Most of the day consists of debate of whether it's optimal to lynch the center or a corner. In wolfchat, threalmathguy discusses whether it would be best to try to defend themselves or just go down but try to get towncred, but ultimately neither wolf is super active and threalmathguy goes down.
Night 1: A# Minor chooses to wolf The Musical Poet, but later decides to switch to XiaoMigros. Town mostly discusses optimal tictactoe strategy.
Day 2: Many townies are confused as to why XiaoMigros was wolfed over IC ThatHiddenCharacter, and many people start looking at A# Minor and The Musical Poet. However, TheZeldaPianist275 sends this message to ThatHiddenCharacter:

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 08, 2023, 08:16:41 PMI think there's a good chance I am going to be set up this day phase. I suggested myself and Poet as viable lynch candidates before we decided to go for Math D0, but lynching Xiao took any incentive for me to put myself forward as a lynch candidate away, since my death would no longer contribute to a human TTT victory.

I think a wolf narrative could be "TZP, you put yourself up as a lynch candidate when it was near certain that Math was going to be lynched, but said you could be lynched tomorrow.....then Xiao got conveniently wolfed, removing the incentive for you to be lynched. You ingratiated yourself by offering yourself to be killed without any actual risk."

You don't have to trust me! But please keep an eye out for anyone who says something that looks like this.

Ultimately, Toby took the bait, which caused a rift in town. Between that and town wanting a lynch that would leave their options open, it came down to a tie between Toby and SpecsFlyer17, who was primarily pushed by BlackDragonSlayer and ended up being the lynch after a KitB, condemning the IC to being the next wolfkill.
Night 2: This phase is probably more interesting for what happened behind the scenes. As A# Minor didn't show up at all the last phase, and if wolves didn't wolf ThatHiddenCharacter it would lead to an automatic loss, I had to contact around twenty people to find a sub so that they could submit the kill in case A# Minor didn't show up. Ultimately, DS was ready to sub in and even signed an account here, but A# Minor showed up anyway.
Day 3: BDS comes close to finding the scent. A# Minor nearly wolfslips by falsely assuming their vote is a hammer, and TZP calls her out on it. Ultimately, though, they both go back to voting BDS, continuing the game.
Night 3: Toby falsely claims to be the last wolf as a reaction test (for the record, if Toby was truly the last wolf the game would have been called at that point). A# Minor admits they know it's fake, TMP is mostly confused, and TZP seems to believe it. Despite calling out A# Minor's strange vote, Toby seems to lean to a TMP vote before his inevitable wolfing.
Day 4: TZP goes back and forth between TMP and A# Minor, but ultimately votes TMP in the end, allowing A# Minor to hammer and end the game.

Player analysis:

A# Minor: Good job! It's impressive that you were able to win despite the wolves having a bad rand with the board, with math in the center and you being in the corner is not ideal either. However, there were a couple times when things nearly fell apart. Number one, being completely silent D2 was bad and nearly led to a major issue with game integrity, as I mentioned earlier. There were still people who felt you couldn't be the wolf because you weren't active enough, which is not the ideal situation, plus you being inactive after the math lynch made you look like their most likely partner. Secondly, there were a couple times when you were a bit flippant about your vote, especially in D3, so it may be helpful to try to build more of a progression. Still, you pulled it off in the end, so I can't complain too much.
XiaoMigros: You had the unlucky position of being the first one nightkilled, so there's not too much to say here. I suppose the one thing to say is that you probably could've posted more of your reads on N1 so town would have something to go off of when you were killed, and looking at least a little bit into whether or not math was a wolf could help town proceed in the next phase.
TheZeldaPianist275: You should learn how to better push people. You did have some good thoughts in the later phases, but it doesn't matter if you're going to drop them. Granted, you were stuck with two of the less active people at LyLo, but you really could have pushed both of them harder. Even after A# and TMP answer your questions, you should push them on their answer to see if it's satisfactory. You were stuck in a difficult position at F3, but LyLo is usually a time where you have to reevaluate the assumptions that got you to that point in the game. It's good to keep the thoughts of dead town like Toby in mind, but that's not everything.
ThatHiddenCharacter: As you were confirmed town, I'm a little disappointed you weren't more bold and vocal. In particular, I'm surprised you didn't leave a "legacy post" going over all your reads and how you wanted town to proceed after it was clear your death was inevitable. I understand why this isn't common in flipless games, but as you were confirmed town there was no reason not to do this. And this goes to both you and TZP, but you probably should've been more charitable to Toby on D2; if it was wolves' plan to frame TZP for the Xiao kill, then they'd be more likely to wait for town to make that mistake than actually push that reasoning themselves, especially as TZP was able to figure it themselves.
SpecsFlyer17: I think part of your problem this game is that you were focused too much on tictactoe theory. It's the same problem with mechanical discussion: people assume that it's what wolves will do when they can't contribute reads to the game. If you were more willing to post reads on people, then they would be less likely to see all the mechanical talk as a smokescreen. Still, I understand that a KitB sucks, and it must have been even more frustrating to learn that both wagons were pure!
BlackDragonSlayer: You did come close to solving the game, and in the end it was mainly a vote by the wolf, as well as the fact that you couldn't be there EoD that did you in. I think you did have a problem with being too passive against A# Minor; while you were willing to voice suspicions I don't think you've ever directly confronted her and that allowed her to avoid being the focus of discussion. To avoid being mislynched, you need to establish a viable counterwagon, and I don't think you really did that too well on D3.
The Musical Poet: Interestingly, your inactivity actually benefited town on D1 at least, as wolves had no reason to kill you and it forced A# Minor to go for a riskier Xiao kill rather than killing you to protect their position. Unfortunately, that led to an ironic situation where it would be better for town if you did worse, as you getting mislynched D2 or D3 would have ended the game. Ultimately, you not paying attention was probably more harmful to town in the long run, as your vote on SpecsFlyer17 came out of nowhere and was probably one of the wolfiest things in your ISO. At LyLo, you also need to establish why you're townier than TZP or A# Minor, which is something you didn't do and ultimately led to your downfall. The burden you bear for town's activity rises the more townies that die, so it's important to step up in the later phases of the game.
threalmathguy: I understand that you randed into a rough position, and it's never fun to basically be guaranteed to die D1. Still, I think you should have done more D1. If this game had cardflips turned on, then not spewing when you're guaranteed to die is probably the right decision, but with cardflips off, it would have made A# Minor's life much easier if people had read you as town, as it became obvious that if you were a wolf A# Minor was likely to be your partner. Also, I'm not sure why you were voting TMP when that lynch would put your team in the exact same position; if it was meant to throw town off the scent, town didn't get the memo.
Toby: Firstly, you can join the chorus of people who should've pressured A# Minor more. Now, part of the reason why you were being suspected D2 was because of TZP's message to THC, which could be hard to anticipate, but it wouldn't have hurt to reach out to THC who is confirmed town. This is an OC game, I'm surprised that TZP is the only person who privately reached out to THC in this manner. Still, respect for managing to survive D3 despite being the CW in the previous phase. So you did a reaction test, and the thing is I've seen these kinds of reaction tests fail as much as they succeed. Using it to help gather data isn't a bad idea, but it probably shouldn't be the sole reason behind who is wolfiest. Also, you probably could've left a more concrete legacy post, though you were better about this than THC was.

Wolf MVP: A# Minor
Town MVP: BlackDragonSlayer
Honorable mentions: TheZeldaPianist275, Toby
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: therealmathguy on November 16, 2023, 05:06:13 PM
A# the GOAT

The board positions put us in a very tough spot, I can't believe we got it

Good job A#, that's basically a solo victory
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 05:21:55 PM
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 05:29:52 PM
I am irate about that
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 05:33:19 PM
^^ That's how I feel.

I cannot believe Math was lynched center square D0 and won. I cannot believe it.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 05:37:47 PM
Yeah pretty much anything I can say is gonna be insane cope because in fairness to the wolves they made a generational comeback after a swingy start

I'm just frustrated because I don't feel like I could have done anything else that last day phase. It felt like a coin flip
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: The Musical Poet on November 16, 2023, 05:38:58 PM
sorry TZP, I was not able to be online at that time. School sucks :/
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 05:45:09 PM
Well done A#, that's an insane comeback.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 06:47:20 PM
I was right.

There was a good reason I thought A# was more likely to be Mathguy's partner. It's unfortunate that people got caught up with lynching me for what seemed like very circumstantial reasons.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: A# Minor on November 16, 2023, 06:52:01 PM
lol thanks, I have literally no idea how I wasn't lynched like D2 XD


I was actually gonna wolf poet instead of xiao on n1, but I thought that would make you guys lynch me since I'm the opposite corner D:


Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 06:47:20 PMIt's unfortunate that people got caught up with lynching me for what seemed like very circumstantial reasons.
yeah, I decided to lynch you because I kinda wanted poet to stick around for the last phase — XD
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 06:54:54 PM
Quote from: A# Minor on November 16, 2023, 06:52:01 PMI was actually gonna wolf poet instead of xiao on n1, but I thought that would make you guys lynch me since I'm the opposite corner D:

I actually think it would've been a good move to lynch Poet N1. The Xiao wolf put some pressure on TZP, but never enough to get him lynched; in fact, it's what got him to the end. It's the same situation, and I think it probably would've helped you out.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: The Musical Poet on November 16, 2023, 07:50:01 PM
Quote from: A# Minor on November 16, 2023, 06:52:01 PMlol thanks, I have literally no idea how I wasn't lynched like D2 XD


I was actually gonna wolf poet instead of xiao on n1, but I thought that would make you guys lynch me since I'm the opposite corner D:

yeah, I decided to lynch you because I kinda wanted poet to stick around for the last phase — XD

thief

you stole my luck >:>

also why did you even want me
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 08:27:28 PM
Alright, so the game recap and player analyses are finished! So what do you think of the game? Was the hosting and balance fair, and would you play another game hosted by me in the future?
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 08:37:19 PM
Quote from: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 08:27:28 PMAlright, so the game recap and player analyses are finished! So what do you think of the game? Was the hosting and balance fair, and would you play another game hosted by me in the future?
I enjoyed the concept!!! It was fun to have to think about how things would play out in future phases before they even happened (to a greater degree than normal) and to think about how to set up lynches so the people you wanted to get lynched were still viable options. In a regular game without the TTT board, we probably wouldn't have lynched Mathguy D1—if he had been a human, there would've been a lot of interesting implications there about how it was still probably the most "optimal" D1 lynch regardless.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 08:44:27 PM
I think what this game demonstrated to me is that I'm not great at wolf hunting lol. I haven't really had to do that in earnest since the revival started—the only other game I've been a human had enough gimmicks that we forced the wolves without having to resort to social deductions.

Oricorio I agree that I should have been pushier really the whole game, but the entire final phase the two people opposite me were basically not responding substantively to anything I was saying, and that was a very frustrating spot to be in! A# was a top suspicion for me the whole game but I talked myself out of voting for her because she was basically hiding, and the more present Poet had her own slips. I would really hate to see inactivity return to the meta as a viable strat.

I did have fun though, especially once Specs was lynched and I realized I needed to pay a lot more attention. Thank you much for hosting! I hope that you're able to cross-pollinate some other old MafiaScum ideas over here, because this was a clever game.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 08:48:22 PM
Also, I disagree that Specs' insight was overly mechanistic. I think he was trying to frame the discussion around lynch candidates, and registering your own reads on people typically comes after they start talking about those potential lynches.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 08:49:35 PM
Last thing before I sleep: I'm curious, who else on the human team would have gone for Poet over A# at the end? Did I miss something that should have made it obvious?
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 08:52:18 PM
Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 08:48:22 PMAlso, I disagree that Specs' insight was overly mechanistic. I think he was trying to frame the discussion around lynch candidates, and registering your own reads on people typically comes after they start talking about those potential lynches.

In mafia, it's not always about what you're doing but how you look doing it, and people were suspecting Specs for talking too much about strategy.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 08:59:35 PM
Quote from: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 04:54:09 PMTown MVP: BlackDragonSlayer

How much did BDS pay you for that ranking? Bro literally gets the IC killed and wins MVP. The fix is in!

/s
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 09:00:34 PM
That's my point though, leaving aside  the fact that the reads weren't accurate, Specs didn't look really that suspicious to my eye. Just because people suspect him doesn't mean what he was doing is objectively suspicious

"Hey we should probably carefully map out who dies and when when we lynch"
"Clearly wolf, lynch him and also our one confirmed human I guess"

ninja'd, good grief Specs
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:02:10 PM
Haha I'm just kidding, BDS had good reads on the players.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Oricorio on November 16, 2023, 09:03:20 PM
Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 08:59:35 PMHow much did BDS pay you for that ranking? Bro literally gets the IC killed and wins MVP. The fix is in!

/s

They were closest to getting it right. Still though, putting anyone in that spot comes with reservations lol
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 09:03:47 PM
Also, thanks for the thoughtful postgame breakdown Oricorio. Hope we have you around for more of this!
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 09:08:44 PM
Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 16, 2023, 09:00:34 PMThat's my point though, leaving aside  the fact that the reads weren't accurate, Specs didn't look really that suspicious to my eye. Just because people suspect him doesn't mean what he was doing is objectively suspicious

"Hey we should probably carefully map out who dies and when when we lynch"
"Clearly wolf, lynch him and also our one confirmed human I guess"

ninja'd, good grief Specs
The issue, to me, was that it didn't really feel like Specs was trying to hunt wolves; it felt more like he was trying to create favorable situations for himself on the board (which would've been especially true in a Math/Specs wolf pairing).

For me, I was varying degrees of suspicious of everybody except Toby and Xiao (before Xiao was wolfed; and THC, of course). The plan I proposed essentially made Toby the only viable partner for me, but given that he was more than open to lynching himself (plus, the fact that he himself knew he wasn't my partner), that should've been a pretty good sign that I wasn't a wolf.

Also, when I was lynched, I woke up like 10 minutes after the phase had ended :-X
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PM
I'm honestly still pretty shocked I got lynched when I did. Yeah, I suppose everything I posted could have been a smokescreen and I could've put some more opinions in it.... But besides TZP a bit, no one was really deeply considering the cause and effect long-term ramifications of the lynch choice on the TTT board. I really felt like that was critical to the game, and it was worth discussing. And man, I'm still shocked I got lynch-rushed by HUMANS, also signing THCs death sentence.

Everyone involved... like low key ban-able offense?
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:19:12 PM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 09:08:44 PMThe issue, to me, was that it didn't really feel like Specs was trying to hunt wolves

And that's fair. I probably should've inserted more about who I found suspicious, rather than just discussing the TTT repercussions.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 09:23:38 PM
Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PMI'm honestly still pretty shocked I got lynched when I did. Yeah, I suppose everything I posted could have been a smokescreen and I could've put some more opinions in it.... But besides TZP a bit, no one was really deeply considering the cause and effect long-term ramifications of the lynch choice on the TTT board. I really felt like that was critical to the game, and it was worth discussing. And man, I'm still shocked I got lynch-rushed by HUMANS, also signing THCs death sentence.

Everyone involved... like low key ban-able offense?
I was considering the board when suggesting Poet lynch. From my perspective at the time (and even more so in hindsight) the only way that would've lost the game would be if the wolves were Toby/TZP which seemed like one of the least likely possible wolf pairings.

Also, what I said about THC/the IC was true. In this specific game, the IC is nice to have around but not essential (mostly because of how likely it is that they'd just be wolfed N1 regardless of who was lynched the day before), especially because THC was semi-inactive and it was hard to determine which way he'd lean in hypothetical final 3 situations, which was a risk I myself wasn't keen on taking.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:30:13 PM
Oricorio, thanks a ton for hosting. Very intriguing game.

Thoughts on the TTT TWG game:

The center square is a tough thing to deal with. They'll likely get lynched or wolfed on D0 or N1, given the strategy of the game. It's just an unlucky roll for whoever gets it, and I think there's a fairly high amount of RNG luck that the center square creates. Obviously a wolf rolling center is terrible luck (although that looks like a dumb argument because the wolves won today lol). The solution would be put the IC in the center, but again, they're likely to be killed D0 or N1 anyways, so it's a bit anticlimactic.

Part of me likes the cause and effect nature of the game, while at other times I felt it made the game a little dry. On the plus side, it was fun solving all the lynching possibilities over who would die. On the other side, there are iterations of the game where 1 lynch can essentially decide 4 consecutive deaths, which frankly just sounds a little boring.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:36:22 PM
Re BDS:

Yeah, you voted for Poet initially for the second lynch, and TZP initially voted for A#. Either of those wins us the game.

Hindsight is 20/20, I guess.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: A# Minor on November 16, 2023, 09:58:53 PM
I just remembered this:

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on October 26, 2023, 04:44:09 PMNew Manti. You heard it here first.

*rolls wolf, survives N1*


... I'm incredibly disturbed
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: XiaoMigros on November 16, 2023, 10:50:32 PM
lmao 2 comments

1:
Quote from: TheZeldaPianist2752. Xiao—the thing that Toby just pointed out about my posts having a different tone this game I feel could just as easily apply to you. I'm used to you being more off-the-wall than you've played this game. Your posts feel very calculated, and while that could be because you are just more experienced and know how the game works now, it stands out.
this is said about me literally every game, stop saying this

also 2: haha a# i knew it was you
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: A# Minor on November 16, 2023, 11:11:09 PM
Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 06:54:54 PMI actually think it would've been a good move to lynch (wolf?) Poet N1. The Xiao wolf put some pressure on TZP, but never enough to get him lynched; in fact, it's what got him to the end. It's the same situation, and I think it probably would've helped you out.
oh, that's interesting, I didn't even notice

I was planning on trying to use that to frame someone, but that, uh, didn't go as planned >_> lol

Quote from: The Musical Poet on November 16, 2023, 07:50:01 PMthief

you stole my luck >:>

also why did you even want me
SUFFER

I wanted you there because you were inactive and I figured TZP would go for you


besides that, (I just remembered this) if you were lynched, I would've had to wolf myself or wait to get myself lynched, both resulting in a human victory

Quote from: XiaoMigros on November 16, 2023, 10:50:32 PMalso 2: haha a# i knew it was you
hee hee X3



that was really fun, and I enjoyed the added tic tac toe! it was an interesting addition and it helped me to figure out who to wolf


... now imma go grab an ice pop and calm my nerves
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 16, 2023, 11:34:02 PM
Quote from: XiaoMigros on November 16, 2023, 10:50:32 PM1:this is said about me literally every game, stop saying this
Conversely, I think I've finally got a grip on normal Xiao TWG behavior (at least, as a human) and felt you acted pretty typically this game.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Toby on November 17, 2023, 03:17:57 AM
Sorry Specs you got lynched, on the plus side I thought you were being a really cunning wolf but slipped in that while you wanted to look really good and gather data for town, you actually sat on the fence with it and didnt want to push any direction

TZP, it was a tough call to make and feels like it would have been a coin flip

The thing is for every sus wolf play that A# made, poet had also made a similar human play. It was hard to distinct between the two.

Historically anything A# did would get her lynched easily - not really helping humans, clearly not trying to hunt wolves, not analysing anyone's posts, low effort, making irrational moves, making votes that don't make sense - however we are in an age of TWG where these things are also happening frequently with humans. So we somewhat have to compensate our thinking which I think bit me in the bum a bit here. I think A# did have genuine personal reasons for not being as active so it wasn't necessarily a play style choice as it was a play style circumstance ?

It still doesn't really feel like we had the wool pulled over our eyes as I can't really recall anything that made me think A# was incredibly human - just neutral and Poet did incredibly suspicious things, and TZP had a clear change of tone this game , and some tiny things I thought were odd reflecting off of that. I think only notable for A# is when I claimed wolf and she outright called it a lie - I thought surely a wolf wouldn't do that but maybe I got reverse reverse psychology'd, or maybe it was a clear slip from her to be so confident I was bluffing whereas everyone else bought it - should have just took the reaction at face value.

Nevertheless congrats on the win!

I think we need to just lynch the quieter players early on as they're too difficult to read, or compensate our readings on by late game. I guess we could have went poet/A# day 2, but that forced Specs being lynched day 3, which I guess would have felt like 3 forced lynches - lynching middle day 1, the quieter players day 2, and then forced to block day 3 and just hope a wolf was in there somewhere to get free choice day 4.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Toby on November 17, 2023, 03:24:17 AM
Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on November 16, 2023, 09:15:16 PMI'm honestly still pretty shocked I got lynched when I did. Yeah, I suppose everything I posted could have been a smokescreen and I could've put some more opinions in it.... But besides TZP a bit, no one was really deeply considering the cause and effect long-term ramifications of the lynch choice on the TTT board. I really felt like that was critical to the game, and it was worth discussing. And man, I'm still shocked I got lynch-rushed by HUMANS, also signing THCs death sentence.

Everyone involved... like low key ban-able offense?

LOL

I mean in hindsight me and BDS were just trying to survive, and although the THC could have made it to day 3, they wouldn't make it to day 4. I did call out poet for why she went for Specs but she was human after all.

I think with THC being so unpredictable last game, him being alive although confirmed human felt somewhat untrustworthy still. Yeah sure he's a player not to worry about but he would also have the deciding vote and who knows who he would choose
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: TheZeldaPianist275 on November 17, 2023, 06:19:34 AM
Quote from: Toby on November 17, 2023, 03:17:57 AMSorry Specs you got lynched, on the plus side I thought you were being a really cunning wolf but slipped in that while you wanted to look really good and gather data for town, you actually sat on the fence with it and didnt want to push any direction

TZP, it was a tough call to make and feels like it would have been a coin flip

The thing is for every sus wolf play that A# made, poet had also made a similar human play. It was hard to distinct between the two.

Historically anything A# did would get her lynched easily - not really helping humans, clearly not trying to hunt wolves, not analysing anyone's posts, low effort, making irrational moves, making votes that don't make sense - however we are in an age of TWG where these things are also happening frequently with humans. So we somewhat have to compensate our thinking which I think bit me in the bum a bit here. I think A# did have genuine personal reasons for not being as active so it wasn't necessarily a play style choice as it was a play style circumstance ?

It still doesn't really feel like we had the wool pulled over our eyes as I can't really recall anything that made me think A# was incredibly human - just neutral and Poet did incredibly suspicious things, and TZP had a clear change of tone this game , and some tiny things I thought were odd reflecting off of that. I think only notable for A# is when I claimed wolf and she outright called it a lie - I thought surely a wolf wouldn't do that but maybe I got reverse reverse psychology'd, or maybe it was a clear slip from her to be so confident I was bluffing whereas everyone else bought it - should have just took the reaction at face value.

Nevertheless congrats on the win!

I think we need to just lynch the quieter players early on as they're too difficult to read, or compensate our readings on by late game. I guess we could have went poet/A# day 2, but that forced Specs being lynched day 3, which I guess would have felt like 3 forced lynches - lynching middle day 1, the quieter players day 2, and then forced to block day 3 and just hope a wolf was in there somewhere to get free choice day 4.

This, 100%, especially the bit about the era of TWG we're in. The meta has gone backwards lol. I suppose that to push it forward again, the only way forward is through. These are good observations to be making

At the same time I feel like I've sounded way too salty in this postgame though, and I'm sorry if that's how I've come across. A# you won fair and square from a very tough start, so great job.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 17, 2023, 06:24:05 AM
Quote from: Toby on November 17, 2023, 03:17:57 AMHistorically anything A# did would get her lynched easily - not really helping humans, clearly not trying to hunt wolves, not analysing anyone's posts, low effort, making irrational moves, making votes that don't make sense - however we are in an age of TWG where these things are also happening frequently with humans. So we somewhat have to compensate our thinking which I think bit me in the bum a bit here. I think A# did have genuine personal reasons for not being as active so it wasn't necessarily a play style choice as it was a play style circumstance ?
I feel like that's sort of been a thing even in the old days, when people have to pick between lynching players who are neutral or more inactive, versus lynching people who stand out as "obviously" suspicious. When sign-ups are open to the public, it's inevitable that there'll always be at least a few people per game who act that way regardless of role.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: The Musical Poet on November 17, 2023, 07:07:25 PM
question for all of you nerds

Do you agree that my play was absolutely terrible?
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on November 18, 2023, 01:03:53 AM
Congrats, A#! That was honestly very impressive.

Also, I'm sorry for being so absent. I kept forgetting about this...

Quote from: Toby on November 17, 2023, 03:24:17 AMI think with THC being so unpredictable last game, him being alive although confirmed human felt somewhat untrustworthy still. Yeah sure he's a player not to worry about but he would also have the deciding vote and who knows who he would choose
I mean, I won't argue with that. I don't always play chaos, though. No way to know until it happens, I suppose.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: SpecsFlyer17 on November 19, 2023, 07:41:31 AM
Quote from: The Musical Poet on November 17, 2023, 07:07:25 PMquestion for all of you nerds

Do you agree that my play was absolutely terrible?

Not absolutely terrible by any means. I'd focus on being more proactive that reactive, however. Ask people what they think. Ask questions about what people said. Push people to defend their stances and claims. Don't just respond to things people ask you.

And if you say you're going to give a suspicion list, actually follow through with it. It looks wolfy not to.

Just my 2 cents. Or 1.6 pence. As of today.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: Toby on November 19, 2023, 08:39:40 AM
Quote from: The Musical Poet on November 17, 2023, 07:07:25 PMquestion for all of you nerds

Do you agree that my play was absolutely terrible?

At the start you seemed really engaged but as the game went on it seemed as if you were missing bits and your activity dropped. There were a couple times players directed questions towards you and I'm guessing you didn't see them and didn't respond - it could look as being an avoidant/sus.

And as specs said best advice to anyone really is to try be more proactive than reactive
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: The Musical Poet on November 19, 2023, 09:17:26 AM
ok thanks
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on November 19, 2023, 01:04:46 PM
My speculation is that the quality of your play correlated with how much sleep you got :P It seems like sometimes you were really interested in engaging with and contributing analysis to the game, yet other times you were just seemed sorta confused. I'd be interested to possibly confirm or deny that guess.
Title: Re: TWG CXVIII: Noughts and Crosses Postgame
Post by: The Musical Poet on November 19, 2023, 01:45:47 PM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on November 19, 2023, 01:04:46 PMMy speculation is that the quality of your play correlated with how much sleep you got :P It seems like sometimes you were really interested in engaging with and contributing analysis to the game, yet other times you were just seemed sorta confused. I'd be interested to possibly confirm or deny that guess.

you would be right.


 it was also based on how much work I got from school. Homework assignments are no joke.