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Other => Off-Topic => Topic started by: chipmunk884 on April 24, 2008, 06:34:23 PM

Title: The fourth dimension
Post by: chipmunk884 on April 24, 2008, 06:34:23 PM
Have any of you thought that there is a fourth dimension or tried to imagine what a 4d object looks like?  anyway, i've been doing research on the fourth dimension, and i think that it is awesome and mind boogling, but doesn't exist.  However, my uncle has a theory that the universe is actually in a torus (donut) shaped object that is rotating around in the fourth dimension.  Basically, he is saying that if you go far enough out into space, you will end up back at earth.  Here are some awesome links i found on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_dimension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_dimension)

http://eusebeia.dyndns.org/4d/vis/vis.html (http://eusebeia.dyndns.org/4d/vis/vis.html)

Please post any thoughts that you have on this subject, because i'm very curious what you think about it.  Enjoy!
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 24, 2008, 06:41:31 PM
first, my views on the universe. like your uncle, i believe that the universe that we live in is donut-shaped and that it is floating in the fourth dimension. however, there are also other universes floating in the fourth dimension and really we live in a multiverse.

...

i'll type the rest tomorrow because it's late and i'm tired.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: KefkaticFanatic on April 24, 2008, 06:47:42 PM
...my brain hurts.

More than 3-dimensional stuff creeps me out.

Awesome though, nonetheless.
My teacher is going to teach us about 1-10D
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Gu4n on April 25, 2008, 06:59:31 AM
I've researched it in the past, too, but my brains just aren't capable of understanding it. =')
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Jamaha on April 25, 2008, 07:41:38 AM
Isn't time considered the 4th dimension?
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: ZeldaFan on April 25, 2008, 07:43:29 AM
that's what i thought it was...
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 25, 2008, 12:29:34 PM
Quote from: G-Han on April 25, 2008, 06:59:31 AMI've researched it in the past, too, but my brains just aren't capable of understanding it. =')

G-Han has multiple brains! the zombies would love him.

or do you mean "brain's"?
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: chipmunk884 on April 25, 2008, 03:22:01 PM
Even though the 4th dimension is considered to be time in physics, i'm talking about a 4th spacial dimension.  I also read about the superstring theory, which is only plausable if there are 10 dimensions, with 6 of them wrapped up in the sub-atomic level.  People also have theory's that state that other dimensions besides our 3 could be used for time travel.  I've also read that all invisible forces like gravity and particles originate in the 4th dimension.  Finally, in reply to what razer said, even though i don't believe in that "donut" theory, if it was true, then theoretically, our "donut universe" could be the necklace or painting for a 4th dimensional creature/human.  Just some things to think about.  And if you read through all of the articles from the second link on my first post, you will get a much better understanding of the 4th dimension.  It really helped me to comprehend the 4th dimension much better, and now I can actually think about what the 4th dimension would be like without straining my brain so much!
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 26, 2008, 05:34:19 AM
yes. apparently gravity is a very weak force in our universe compared to other forces, so it was theorized that gravity originates in the 4th dimension (where it is very strong) and leaks over into our universe which is floating in the 4th dimension. as a result only portions of gravity are being absorbed by our universe (like when you put a sponge in a bucket of water, it soaks up all the water it can hold, but if you measure to see how much water is in the sponge  compared to how much water is still in the bucket, the water in the sponge is much, much less than the amount of water in the bucket) and thus gravity is much weaker in our universe than in the 4th dimension.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on April 26, 2008, 07:56:44 AM
my friend and i had a theory that if we can "fold" up part of the universe (the 4-d part) we can travel through as if the distace has been halved or even reduced 99%
but i forgot almost every single thing we talked about...

since our shadows are 2 dimensional, im assuming we are the shadows of a 4th dimensional world

the hypercube is an excellent example of a 4-d shape
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 26, 2008, 09:43:58 AM
Quote from: Sirus on April 26, 2008, 07:56:44 AMmy friend and i had a theory that if we can "fold" up part of the universe (the 4-d part) we can travel through as if the distace has been halved or even reduced 99%

what you're talking about is called a wormhole. wormholes do exactly that. (in theory, of course.)
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on April 26, 2008, 11:11:21 AM
i thought wormholes were something differnt....  :-[
well it looks like i have to reresearch this topic!
dang it i should have done this for my project!
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 26, 2008, 11:45:05 AM
Quote from: Sirus on April 26, 2008, 11:11:21 AMi thought wormholes were something differnt....  :-[
well it looks like i have to reresearch this topic!
dang it i should have done this for my project!


lol. anyway, i'm just kind of a nerd and i watch shows about all this stuff on the science channel, so it's not like you're stupid or anything. and yeah, this would've made a good project.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on April 26, 2008, 06:58:09 PM
im a nerd too
lol
Science channel rocks
Discovery is better though  :D
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Dekudude on April 26, 2008, 07:56:02 PM
Well.. I see no reason a 4th (or more) special dimension can't exist.

Imagine living in a two-dimensional universe. X and Y. No Z. Now, you're walking along your two-dimensional sidewalk, and suddenly someone from the three-dimensional world tears a whole in the piece of paper-like universe you're living in. You fall through the hole, and immediately the fabric of space rearranges you, stretching and squishing, making you another ordinary 3-dimensional shape. (yes, you probably died the transformation from 2D to 3D. :()

NOW. Imagine YOU are walking down the street, and someone from the 4th dimension tears a hole in the puny little cube you're living in. You fall through the hole... and die. However, in the 4D world, you are officially a 4-dimensional shape.

Now, the way I see it, is to get to the second dimension, you have to go THROUGH space.... between matter. Now, we can't necessarily do that, as we'd be creating a singularity. To get to the 4th dimension, you'd have to do the opposite: Not go between space, but go... through space. Instead of squishing between infinitely small particles of nothing, you'd have infinitely large particles squish through you, shoving you out, and reassembling you. Now, that's just my theory, and yes, you'd die... but hey, that's life. :P

So no, it would be impossible to hold a truly 4-dimensional cube in your hand, as the moment it enters our dimension, it would immediately be rerendered as a 3D cube. Does that make sense?

Plus, we don't have the means to get to our lower dimensions, so the greater ones shouldn't have means to get to us. However, the idea of gravity (I've heard it was in the 5th dimension, though...) and time (4th dimension) being so powerful, they leak into (between infinity: remember!) our dimension... that's quite a possibility. It would make sense, too: Gravity affects time AND us, time affects us. Does time affect how heavy something is? Nope.

Adding to that, light is in our dimension, and is probably the most powerful force that belongs in it. (Lightspeed!) Thus Einstein's belief it is impossible to go faster than light.... if we were to go faster, we'd probably tear a little hole in our universe. :'(




And that's my story. ^_^


EDIT - Actually, instead of light being the more powerful forces in our universe, Electromagnetism, the Strong, and the Weak Nuclear Forces, would be the 3rd Dimension's, "biggies".

1st Dimension - ???
2nd Dimension - ???
3rd Dimension - Electromagnetism, Strong Nuclear Forces, Weak Nuclear Forces
4th Dimension - Time
5th Dimension - Gravity
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 27, 2008, 06:36:46 AM
if we were to go faster than light speed, we would enter the next higher dimension (and yeah i knew the whole gravity is 5 and light is 4 thing, i just forgot :P) because we would have used more energy than is available in ours. then if we break the speed of gravity, we would go to Dimension 5, and so on.

to get to a lower dimension we would have to give up energy somehow, and because energy cannot be created or destroyed, this seems impossible. the simple way around this is that if we go to a lower dimension (this also works for going to a higher one, just conversely) we have to switch spaces with energy from the lower dimension. if we go through some space/time portal to Dimension 2, then we would leave some of our excess energy (because as stated in the first paragraph, there is more available energy the higher you go up in the dimensions) and the energy we would be adding is sent from D2 to D3 (like water displacement, jump in a bathtub thats full to the brim with water and some will leak over the sides). this would mean that if we went to D2 then some of D2's energy would have to be converted into one of D3's main energies (like what Dekudude said).

so, if we were to throw an apple into one of these portals (an artificial one, or possibly a wormhole or black hole) we might see a flash of lightning (electromagnetism) or a small nuclear blast (strong/weak nuclear forces) come back out of our end as the energy was displaced from D2 back into D3. in D2, a smaller apple (because if the loss of energy) or a rotten apple (again, loss of energy) might appear. or possibly they would just see a flash of whatever energy is the dominant form in D2. if we went up to D4, then more gravity would enter this dimension, but there would be no need for the apple to lose energy because there is more available energy  in D4; in fact the apple might expand.

so yes, there is really no reason why more dimensions could exist, and no reason why we can't travel to them (we might die, but we would still arrive there. our corpses at least...).
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Dekudude on April 27, 2008, 08:17:51 AM
Would it be possible that a black hole's singularity would have enough gravity to tear a hole in space, opening up another dimension? We couldn't get there, but just a thought..
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 27, 2008, 09:21:28 AM
Quote from: Dekudude on April 27, 2008, 08:17:51 AMWould it be possible that a black hole's singularity would have enough gravity to tear a hole in space, opening up another dimension? We couldn't get there, but just a thought..

possibly, singularities might have enough energy to be portals to various other dimensions.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Mike on April 27, 2008, 11:14:17 AM
Actually there are theories of 10 dimensions. With the continuity of things we could have an infinite number of dimensions, but our mind isn't advanced enough to possibly imagine anything past the 10th dimension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU1fixMAObI

Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: HugoMeister on April 27, 2008, 11:19:15 AM
Quote from: Dekudude on April 27, 2008, 08:17:51 AMWould it be possible that a black hole's singularity would have enough gravity to tear a hole in space, opening up another dimension? We couldn't get there, but just a thought..

Wait....how do you tear a hole in nothing? :P
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Dekudude on April 27, 2008, 09:23:11 PM
Nothing? It'd be tearing a whole in the fabric of space and time. :P
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Brawler4Ever on April 27, 2008, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: Mike on April 27, 2008, 11:14:17 AMActually there are theories of 10 dimensions. With the continuity of things we could have an infinite number of dimensions, but our mind isn't advanced enough to possibly imagine anything past the 10th dimension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU1fixMAObI



I don't know about you, but I can barely get past the third...
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 28, 2008, 03:39:15 AM
Quote from: Brawler4Ever on April 27, 2008, 09:32:23 PM
Quote from: Mike on April 27, 2008, 11:14:17 AMActually there are theories of 10 dimensions. With the continuity of things we could have an infinite number of dimensions, but our mind isn't advanced enough to possibly imagine anything past the 10th dimension.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU1fixMAObI



I don't know about you, but I can barely get past the third...

actually, that made complete sense to me.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: chipmunk884 on April 28, 2008, 05:44:59 PM
And also, if you went at the speed of light for at least a few decades in space, when/if you got back to earth, you would be younger than everyone who was originally your same age because as you reach the speed of light, time slows down.  This, along with razors ides, makes the idea of the 4th dimension being time perfect sense, because you would start to enter the "time dimension", so time wouldn't act the same.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on April 29, 2008, 03:55:50 PM
you know
we should gather all our ideas as a report or presentation and send it to some science institution or labs or even NASA!
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 30, 2008, 03:40:11 AM
they would laugh at us.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Brawler4Ever on April 30, 2008, 05:57:34 AM
Quote from: razer84 on April 30, 2008, 03:40:11 AMthey would laugh at us.

And then call us terrorists.
(or in Razer's case, Communists)
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 30, 2008, 12:10:54 PM
Quote from: Brawler4Ever on April 30, 2008, 05:57:34 AM
Quote from: razer84 on April 30, 2008, 03:40:11 AMthey would laugh at us.

And then call us terrorists.
(or in Razer's case, Communists)

i'm not commie dammit!
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: chipmunk884 on April 30, 2008, 04:18:52 PM
In my geometry class, we think that the 4th dimension is a sponge cylinder... lol  (true story).  Anyway, i don't think anybody in any high position would even bother with our ideas.  Plus, when do you honestly think that we would be able to travel at the speed of light to see if there really is a 4th dimension
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on April 30, 2008, 05:42:46 PM
i said it was possible, not plausible.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Da Spazz on May 09, 2008, 03:45:14 PM
The look will probably stop my brain and make it blow up. 3 dimension already makes me quesy, i try not to go any more than that.  :o
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on May 09, 2008, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: razer84 on April 30, 2008, 03:40:11 AMthey would laugh at us.

true
well all probably be arrested for trying influence young minds

ANTIESTABLISHMENTARISM
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on May 10, 2008, 09:15:47 AM
you're mom's an antiestablishmentarism.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on May 10, 2008, 07:49:19 PM
 :o :o :o :o :o :o
OMG
IM A ANTIESTABLISHMENTARIST!!!!
jk

sry for getting off topic
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Gu4n on May 11, 2008, 03:19:34 AM
Quote from: razer84 on May 10, 2008, 09:15:47 AMyou're mom's an antiestablishmentarism.

You mean antiestablishmentarianism?
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on May 11, 2008, 06:52:29 AM
Quote from: G-Han on May 11, 2008, 03:19:34 AM
Quote from: razer84 on May 10, 2008, 09:15:47 AMyou're mom's an antiestablishmentarism.

You mean antiestablishmentarianism?

i know, i just misspelled it like he did. (a subtle kick in the balls, and then laugh at him)
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on May 11, 2008, 10:53:10 AM
 :-[
my bad
*goes in a corners to cut himself in embarassment*
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on May 12, 2008, 03:47:36 AM
Quote from: Sirus on May 11, 2008, 10:53:10 AM:-[
my bad
*goes in a corners to cut himself in embarassment*

go cry emo kid. (i would post that little cat picture, but i'm too lazy...)
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Sirus on May 12, 2008, 04:56:47 PM
OFF TOPIC:
for some reason during my orchestra trip, we were talking about emos and suddenly this girl came up to us and said "Being emo, it hurts... dont be emo" in a really creepy tone.
*shudders*
i dont know
that just creeped me out and her face was twisted with pain and suddenly started laughing
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on May 13, 2008, 03:42:35 AM
Quote from: Sirus on May 12, 2008, 04:56:47 PMOFF TOPIC:
for some reason during my orchestra trip, we were talking about emos and suddenly this girl came up to us and said "Being emo, it hurts... dont be emo" in a really creepy tone.
*shudders*
i dont know
that just creeped me out and her face was twisted with pain and suddenly started laughing


wow, um lol?! yeah. ok.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 20, 2008, 04:16:33 PM
I dont understand any of this incomprehendable gibrish...
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: razer84 on May 21, 2008, 03:45:28 AM
Quote from: olimar12345 on May 20, 2008, 04:16:33 PMI dont understand any of this incomprehendable gibrish...

go brain train your self... with BrainAge, training in minutes a day!
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Olimar12345 on March 18, 2011, 06:59:02 PM
damn bots... somebody kill it and lock this topic.
Title: Re: The fourth dimension
Post by: Nakah on March 18, 2011, 07:04:22 PM
Damnit. We can't even see the 4th dimension of objects. Our minds are incapable of perceiving anything outside of the 3 dimensional structures that it is made out of.