I had this idea a few weeks ago and thought I'd finally share it.
Everyone knows that many of the sheets have formatting errors. Even the good ones from some time ago. So I propose this: Over the summer, certain individuals who have enough time and experience in formatting would fix the sheets on the site. Not the recent ones, mind you. This would not be a replacement project per say. There would be little to no note editing. And a changelog would accompany each piece to be double checked. It wouldn't take that long for an updater to check over it, as we are just going for improvements, not necessarily perfection
For example, take a great arrangement like G-Han's Wind Scene (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/546) from Chrono Trigger.
I would:
Change the first measure to a pickup measure.
Fix the one measure system
Change the D sharps in the LH to E flats in M 25. (A dim)
G sharp --> A flat in M 31
Fix the overlapping rit.
Fix the URL
Move everything on the first page up some for a better spaced layout.
So, it would be my goal over the summer to fix up a lot of the sheets on the site. It would need to be by people who understand music theory somewhat. There would not be major changes done to any of these fixed sheets. This could also be used to create an exhaustive listing of sheets needing a replacement.
What do you guys think?
lol betterment
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on April 05, 2015, 01:55:02 PMlol betterment
Quotebet·ter·ment
ˈbedərmənt/
noun
the act or process of improving something.
"they believed that what they were doing was vital for the betterment of society"
Wrekt
Well, the way we do it now is more efficient, imo. Why only edit the formatting when there are musical errors as well? Saves the time of submitting a second replacement. (Maybe I'm not getting it...)
Simply, this would not require the time it takes to review everything as it does for submissions. It would be quick and hopefully get most of the site looking somewhat better by the end of the summer. Again, it takes such a long time for the review process. There are quite a few songs that are basically fine, except for the fact that they are edited midi dumps. People are not going to take the time to do edits of the songs that only need edits. Instead, they will use their two submissions for new arrangements or challenge arrangements. It would not accomplish the goal in any reasonable amount of time.
idk if that makes any sense.
Well, I love this idea and I already am working on a lot of replacements right now.
This is essentially what it is: http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=6628.0
If I got more help this^, we'd get a lot more replacements on the site. (Mostly feedback from the Updaters is what we/I need right now with this project) but as soon as this one is done, we'll do Pokemon Diamond/Pearl/Platinum that everyone voted here for: http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=6645.0
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 05, 2015, 02:55:55 PMPeople are not going to take the time to do edits of the songs that only need edits. Instead, they will use their two submissions for new arrangements or challenge arrangements. It would not accomplish the goal in any reasonable amount of time.
idk if that makes any sense.
This is why we decided to make replacement projects. But the big problem is the process of having the sheets looked over that bottlenecks submissions, projects, etc.
That's not what I meant. I meant something smaller and quicker than replacing the sheets projects that can cover everything quickly. And it'd hit the stuff that there will never be a replacing the sheets project for. (e.g. all the Castlevania midi dumps)
edit for mlf's edit: This would not require very much time at all for an updater to check, as not too many major things are being changed. Thus, there would not be the kind of bottleneck there is with the projects.
Yes, but I agree with Olimar. What's the point of fixing the formatting and stuff when there are also musical errors?
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 05, 2015, 03:05:14 PMAnd it'd hit the stuff that there will never be a replacing the sheets project for. (e.g. all the Castlevania midi dumps)
We'll eventually get to those :P
In case you didn't know, mlf, there are quite a few finished replacement projects that just need a little more fixing up, but have been stuck in limbo for years. Things like the SSB Melee project (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=3814.msg123520#msg123520) and the Pokemon R/B/Y are still unsubmitted. In the past, replacing the sheet projects have not worked out too well.
Yeah, I know about those projects. Bespinben told me about them.
But, yeah.
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 05, 2015, 03:13:31 PMIn the past, replacing the sheet projects have not worked out too well.
Cause people are lazy ;)
If you are referring to the updaters as being these "Lazy" people, then you have a warped perception of how things work around here.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on April 05, 2015, 03:23:08 PMIf you are referring to the updaters as being these "Lazy" people you are referring to, then you have a warped perception of how things work around here.
I'm not. I'm acknowledging that the updaters have busy lives and it takes such a long time to check everything. I was trying to find a quick solution to clean up some of the junk on the site without taking too much of their time.
Was talking to mlf, but yeah lol
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 05, 2015, 02:05:40 PMQuotebet·ter·ment
ˈbedərmənt/
noun
the act or process of improving something.
"they believed that what they were doing was vital for the betterment of society"
never said it wasn't a word mate
just laughed at you using it
Quote from: Olimar12345 on April 05, 2015, 03:23:08 PMIf you are referring to the updaters as being these "Lazy" people, then you have a warped perception of how things work around here.
Holy crap, no. I wasn't speaking of the Updaters. The Updaters have done/am doing a marvelous job!
The problem is that we're going to check for musical errors anyway, so it doesn't necessarily save us time but as you said, perhaps projects aren't the best way of handling the situation either. Thoughts?
I've had lots of orchestra work over the past couple of weeks but I've got some more free time now so I might devote some time to getting replacements chugging along.
I understand completely, maelstrom, and I concur for the most part. Essentially this is just a simple, "nothing special" process just to make the site in general look a little better. There are still a lot of things it won't fix obviously (hence the need for replacement sheets) but it may prove to be fairly effective. So each person would grab a sheet, maybe even just fix one or two things, and leave it. No status would change because obviously those wouldn't be the only problems but stuff like formatting and such which really sticks out would be handled pretty quick if all goes according to plan. If this picks up speed, I'm in.
Exactly. I'm glad someone finally understands.
I think one concern perhaps is that when a sheet is re-uploaded to the site, it loses it's popularity rating?
(You'll have to check with Olimar/Deku on that one)
If so, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to do minor reformatting without doing the whole shebang. On the other hand, I do recognize this position has its faults, as by demanding perfection from replacements, less replacement efforts are made.
The popularity rating would return at the end of the week. From what I understand, it is not based on total downloads, but which of the eleven categories it fell into durring the past week. So, a song may be in the top 11th one week, but if nobody downloaded it the next week, it would go to the bottom 11th. So it wouldn't matter at all.
edit in response to Ben's edit: True, but it is not the lack of replacements that is a problem. It is the ridiculous amount of time it takes to review an entire project. Additionally, people are not going to submit edits they don't even get their name on when they can submit new arrangements or challenge arrangements.
Ben: We can edit it in such a way as to not disrupt the popularity.
lol betterment
id rather have buttermints
This is a good idea. The old arrangements are largely shit.
Nocturne if you would start asking yourself whether your posts add anything worthwhile at all to any conversation your posts would be far fewer and far less headache-inducing
Quote from: SlowPokemon on April 07, 2015, 11:32:07 PMThis is a good idea. The old arrangements are largely shit.
^This ultimately is the main reason this would work at all. Most of said old arrangements are so bad, I (and most of us here) could take one and have it (if nothing else) 'looking' 1001x cleaner within 20 minutes. Even with just 5 minutes it could be hugely improved.
Now, am I correct in speculating that this would be a volunteer, "no permission needed", wiki-style updating shindig? Just kinda go at your own whim and fix whatever you want to fix? Obviously in such a case we need to have a way to keep pranksters from grabbing one, deleting 80% of the song, and putting it back up. (Or something like that.)
Two systems I'd like to suggest to avoid such a thing is: 1) to have the mods grant arrangers a status allowing them to edit like this. Obviously we would require the arrangers' word that they won't reupload a sheet with fixes that haven't been finished. But such status would only be granted to arrangers who have proven themselves through submissions of their own and have demonstrated that they take arranging seriously. Also maybe a system for removing said status if they step out of line too much.
2) This isn't a substitute for the first suggestion but maybe to avoid people trying to improve sheets that are already fine we could have the mods go through all the sheets first and just check a box on each on whether a sheet could be improved or not. Now, I know you're probably thinking, "No way; updates take long enough as it is. We can't just go through every sheet all over again." But what I'm saying is only the
really bad sheets would be checked as "fixable". The ones that a second-year piano student could look at and say "Yuck". We don't need to search hard for things to fix to check the sheet off, just if any big things pop out immediately.
And hey, a system like this may be a nice way to get all the urls on all the sheets updated quick and easy.
I definitely agree with #1. We need to make sure random people don't start needlessly editing sheets in some way. I'd recomend that those who are not already excellent arrangers wi lth a thorough understanding of formatting and music theory have a chance to demonstrate their skills by exiting a sheet or two (eg me). We should not, however, advertise this on the main site so as not to attract people who know nothing. For #2, however, I feel a little different. What would constitute as needing an edit? The wrong url? A one-measure system? That would need to be defined well before the project began.
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 08, 2015, 03:31:44 PMFor #2, however, I feel a little different. What would constitute as needing an edit? The wrong url? A one-measure system? That would need to be defined well before the project began.
Fair point. Oh well, such is the fruit of discussion.
I'm curious. What do all you updaters think about this?
I haven't quite read everything in this thread yet, but from what I have it seems like an unnecessary step in the process.
(although, maybe I'm not getting it...)
Quote from: Olimar12345 on April 13, 2015, 04:52:54 PM(although, maybe I'm not getting it...)
Nope. JDMEK5 seems to be the only person to get it so far. Bespinben sort of gets it, but it's hard to tell.
step 1: let people edit arrangements
step 2: people can clean them up without making edits to the actual pieces themselves
step 3: ???
step 4: ???
Step 1: Form a small group of people who fully grasp formatting and have an understanding of music theory
Step 2: The approved people edit the vast majority of the sheets to look nicer.
Step 3: Those sheets are shown to an updater with a changelog for double checking.
Step 4: The sheets are put on the site.
Why this way?
It's faster than submitting and reviewing each piece as a new piece. We are trying to clean the site up, not make every arrangement perfect. So no more comic sans or midi dump formatting would exist anymore.
Quote from: Maelstrom on April 13, 2015, 05:58:24 PMStep 2: The approved people edit the vast majority of the sheets to look nicer.
Not perfect, just better so they don't look so atrocious at first glance.