Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
Console: Game Boy Advance
Title: Surf
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Altissimo (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3843)
Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/mus/870) | MIDI (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/mid/870) | PDF (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/870)
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)
[attachment deleted by admin]
For the record, I posted it the way I did, with little formatting, because Latios suggested I should submit it just for the purpose of getting feedback on the
musical elements, since I wasn't getting feedback in my thread or anywhere else. The formatting was going to be fixed later, when I had an idea of whether the arrangement was
musically solid or not.
better (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rcqwv06lu6nmrf6/AAAUtOoqkOHUThke2Ub22vm-a?dl=0)
What did we decide or not decide on timesig tho
We decided we'd wait for Bespinben
I am still like 99% sure that it's compound, not 3/4, though
imo it's 3/4 with a lot of eighth notes
Quote from: Altissimo on September 10, 2015, 10:50:34 AMWe decided we'd wait for Bespinben
I am still like 99% sure that it's compound, not 3/4, though
A lot better now! It's 3/4 however, I'll give a spin in a while so you can see it more clearly :J
Edit: Done. Transcribed to 3/4 note by note. Consequently, all the accents are unnecessary as 3/4 already implies that the first beat is the strongest.
Mind that I just transcribed it to 3/4, didn't take care of playability/any other issues. However, it should be a good starting point for further correcting. Don used Baton Pass!
WHY DO I KEEP HEARING COMPOUND METER THEN IF EVERYONE'S SO SURE IT'S 3/4 ; ; goddammit i'm supposed to be a music theory person
Quote from: Altissimo on September 11, 2015, 07:17:07 AMWHY DO I KEEP HEARING COMPOUND METER THEN IF EVERYONE'S SO SURE IT'S 3/4 ; ; goddammit i'm supposed to be a music theory person
Try to think of it as a waltz, maybe it helps. It definitely isn't 12/8 though ;J
I think the 3/4 lies in the somewhat strong first and third beat played by the bass. If it would be 12/8 it would be a slow 12/8 which I think is quite rare, and also in 12/8 the strong beats are 1,4,7,10 and especially 1 and 7; so it feels more like a 4/4 with triplets.
Try comparing some 3/4 and 12/8 songs. One song in 12/8 is my arrangement on Victory Road from Pokémon R/S/E. In that song the constant triplet-like bass, lack of strong beats and the high tempo gives it a more 12/8 feel.
ok i get it the time signature's wrong. DV already fixed it. now can we discuss more of the arrangement that isn't time signature related
i'm a little bit salty since i really hate being wrong about time signature related stuff and then in addition to that it sounds like I have people talking down to me a lil for being wrong which probably isn't the case but i take shit real personally
^Just trying to help by sharing my opinion.
Anyway I have a couple of ideas for the arrangement:
1) Dynamics: You have marked measure 1-9 mp, and 10 and so on mf. I feel it should be the opposite, that the strings sound louder that the flute. My idea is:
upbeat measure: mp cresc.
measure 1-9 mf
measure 10-18 mp
measure: 16-17 cresc.
2) articulation: I think there are some notes that should be staccato, particularly some quarter notes on the third beat. Maybe also add some slurs, thereby notating both legato and staccato.
Quote2) articulation: I think there are some notes that should be staccato, particularly some quarter notes on the third beat. Maybe also add some slurs, thereby notating both legato and staccato.
Some of that was notated in the original score. I think it got removed during DV's changing it from 12/8 to 3/4.
As for the dynamics you're probably right, I'll edit that in
edit: ok i changed the file to have the articulations (kinda messy tho because working with finale notepad is like trying to peel a potato with a fish) but I can't really redo the dynamics properly because the tools just plain don't work on notepad so if someone else could get that it'd be nice
I totally get it, like key/time sig is supposed to be "easy" but sometimes you just can't figure it out and people expect more of you >:(
OK, here's a thought. In bars 2 - 7 and 18 26 (and more), you have the melody in the right hand with arpeggios, with very little in the left hand. For the sake of simplicity, rather than have the right hand do all the work, could you have the arpeggios played by the left hand (either by jumping or transposing the arpeggio's down)? As a pianist looking at this piece, that is the first thing I would do.
Also, bars 34 - 38, is missing notes on beats 2 and 3, which could be easily put into the left hand.
Quote from: Clanker37 on September 11, 2015, 08:55:52 PMOK, here's a thought. In bars 2 - 7 and 18 26 (and more), you have the melody in the right hand with arpeggios, with very little in the left hand. For the sake of simplicity, rather than have the right hand do all the work, could you have the arpeggios played by the left hand (either by jumping or transposing the arpeggio's down)? As a pianist looking at this piece, that is the first thing I would do.
The problem with that is that the arpeggios start on the same pitch as the bass in the left hand (which imo is necessary to the sound of the piece). This means that either the starting pitch of the arpeggios becomes the same pitch as the bass, which makes subsequent pitches
lower than the bass which I think would compromise the integrity of it since the bass is no longer, well, the base,
or the starting pitch of the arpeggios goes an octave up, which makes the arpeggios unplayable by the left hand while still keeping the bass intact. Trust me, I've thought about it, and I'm not sure that the arpeggios-in-the-left-hand solution is any better than what I actually have written. Maybe some of the notes should be inverted, I dunno, but it's not easy to put that into either hand.
QuoteAlso, bars 34 - 38, is missing notes on beats 2 and 3, which could be easily put into the left hand.
I actually can't figure out what the hell those notes are, I did try when I was originally arranging this but for some reason I just cannot figure out those pitches. If anyone wants to try that'd be great lmao
bump?
I really do think the piece would be better suited by having the arpeggios an octave lower and played by the left hand, since the right is really involved and the left isn't doing much in the current arrangement. Anyone else?
I don't disagree, I just don't know the best way to incorporate them. Either we put them starting above the bass and then they're unplayable while still playing the bass, or they start below the bass which I don't think is right since the bass should be the bass. :/
You could always try using pedal so that the bass note is sustained while the left hand plays the arpeggios (ex. in measure 1, pedal at the first beat of the left hand, a dotted half D-flat, and use the left hand to play the arpeggio starting at the F directly above that, while the D-flat is sustained). Idk if anyone else would approve of that technique though
Hmm, that could work. I'm not gonna actually change it yet until I get another opinion or two though since it might end up being a hindering fix lol
Yeah, I agree. If that technique isn't acceptable, I think the way you've got it is probably ideal.
bump
bump again
Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed6h4dehywdkkb3/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf.mus?dl=1)
I really don't think we need to overcomplicate things with the slurs. The song is flowy just about everywhere, so putting slurs on every measure is messy and redundant.
On the other hand, staccatos work just fine.
whatcha think
I already explained my reasoning over Skype earlier, but I think it was also partly a reaction to the sheet being replaced not having any articulations, and me wanting to make up for it. But you are right that it turned out messy - this version is a lot cleaner, and definitely better. Thanks!
Should I edit the OP with the updated files?
Quote from: Latios212 on October 11, 2015, 11:36:55 AMThe song is flowy just about everywhere, so putting slurs on every measure is messy and redundant.
Then she should probably put "with flowing motion" or something for the tempo marker. If someone who's never heard it before tries to sight read, there should be some indication that it should be played as such.
Quote from: FireArrow on October 11, 2015, 03:04:50 PMThen she should probably put "with flowing motion" or something for the tempo marker. If someone who's never heard it before tries to sight read, there should be some indication that it should be played as such.
It does have "dolce" already, which is a slight indicator of that. But you're probably right, I'll go add that in and update the OP myself.
edit never mind i forgot notepad is peeling a potato with a fish and you can't actually give more text to a preexisting tempo marking :J I did update the OP with the non-slur-heavy version though, I just couldn't change tempo marking
da da da da da duuu, duh duh dut duh duh dut duh duh dut da da da duh duh dut duh duh dut!
~Nostalgia
Aight I had three comments saying I should put the arpeggios in the left hand so I decided to do it. Latios says he likes the original better so I figured I'd let others share their opinions. The originals are in the OP and here are the new ones (with a file name of "Surf Theme lha" for "left-hand arpeggios"):
MIDI (https://www.dropbox.com/s/el3h9oti5yzt3a9/Surf%20Theme%20lha.mid?dl=0) / MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0h5frrooo0sjont/Surf%20Theme%20lha.mus?dl=0) / PDF (https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnyxqrzn2p3sf0w/Surf%20Theme%20lha.pdf?dl=0)
Also here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6330wvuuxrxo382/Surf%20Theme%20lha%20copy.mus?dl=0) is a MUS that TMP made with the layers of the arpeggios swapped, resulting in a volume difference, if it helps any decision making. No point in making a PDF or a MIDI really imo
I really do think we should leave it the way it is. The piece sounds more bouncy and floaty with that layer in the RH; with it in the LH the song sounds heavier and emptier.
Quote from: Latios212 on October 11, 2015, 06:40:13 PMI really do think we should leave it the way it is. The piece sounds more bouncy and floaty with that layer in the RH; with it in the LH the song sounds heavier and emptier.
Yea, we talked about it too. I'm in favor of keeping them in the treble as well.
I'm up for whatever helps this replace the one on site!! But I am more fond of the right-hand arpeggios, personally.
Bump again?
Everything is all together musically. There's a few stray accidental spelling errors (like A naturals that should be Bbb) and some layer overlap you could tidy up with Special Tools. Get that done and you'll be Surfin Hoenn.
So, do you think that the arpeggios are better in the right hand than the left?
(THe rest is an easy fix I'll get done later today.)
How do these look?
MIDI (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz5ls9swwj4jgzy/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.mid?dl=0) / MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqbxtqplz0235ot/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.mus?dl=0) / PDF (https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyfbf0vrh2ncd0h/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.pdf?dl=0)
Quote from: Altissimo on October 20, 2015, 07:57:34 AMHow do these look?
MIDI (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lz5ls9swwj4jgzy/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.mid?dl=0) / MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqbxtqplz0235ot/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.mus?dl=0) / PDF (https://www.dropbox.com/s/eyfbf0vrh2ncd0h/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.pdf?dl=0)
Muy bien (^o^)=b
Quote from: Bespinben on October 20, 2015, 05:29:56 AMThere's a few stray accidental spelling errors (like A naturals that should be Bbb)
Check m. 5 once more ;)
Quote from: Bespinben on October 20, 2015, 01:14:25 PMCheck m. 5 once more ;)
MIDI (https://www.dropbox.com/s/4buad1qwbhw2t7b/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.mid?dl=1) / MUS (https://www.dropbox.com/s/lndteitvy7h4vji/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.mus?dl=1) / PDF (https://www.dropbox.com/s/zsof5d93wg9p2fi/Pokemon%20Ruby-Sapphire%20-%20Surf%282%29.pdf?dl=1)
Shhh...you saw nothing...
I... was honestly hearing more A natural there than B-flat. Like a different note entirely. That's why I left that one the way it was - I didn't overlook it. Anyone got a musical explanation for B-double-flat over A-natural? Just curious.
TMP, thank you for the edit, though :D
Simple answer: There's already an Ab in the treble staff. Don't want an augmented 8th interval now do we?
Lovely music theory answer: Measure 5 is a variant of the iv6 -> I cadence --- a Gb minor chord (with the added 6th), would be spelled Gb Bbb Db (Eb). Think PMD2 "Bubbles Shining Over the Sea", which is an endless loop of this progression, or the arpeggio at the end of repeat on D/P Pokémon League (Day). The main feature of all these is that the 6th scale degree of the key is flattened.
Heh, the simple answer should have been enough for me to notice lol. Thanks for the explanation! I'll edit TMP's links into the OP immediately. Anything else to look at?
I'm away from Finale for the time being, but someone re-enter the LH note in measure 20.
TMP or Ben or someone fix that and don't forget to provide a .musx as well! Then we'll be done!
edit: Discussed over Skype, and...
I managed to completely... not notate the 2nd layer for most of m. 5 and somehow I missed this. Thoughts
This submission has been accepted by Bespinben (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2510).
~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot