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Other => Off-Topic => The Werewolf Game => Topic started by: mikey on April 30, 2018, 08:54:04 PM

Title: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on April 30, 2018, 08:54:04 PM
TWG CV (Off the Grid I):  Roll of the Dice


THE GRID |Roll 1Roll 2Roll 3
Roll 4One-shot VigilanteBrutal WolfVanilla Human
Roll 5Human Odd-Night SeerVanilla HumanVanilla Wolf
Roll 6Wolf RoleblockerHuman GuardianVanilla Human

3 Wolves
8 Humans

At the beginning of the game, a 6-sided die is rolled.  The number rolled will determine how the setup is filled; a roll of 2 would produce the following setup:

1 Brutal Wolf
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans

Whereas a roll of 6 would produce the following setup:

1 Wolf Roleblocker
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans


There will always be 3 wolf-aligned roles and 8 human-aligned roles.  They are merely replaced by the roles in the grid.

Players:
1. Olimar12345
2. BlackDragonSlayer
3. Trasdegi
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. BrainyLucario
6. Toby
7. blueflower999
8. Greg
9. raeko
10. FireArrow
11. E.Gadd Industries

It is now Night 0.  Night 0 ends when Role PMs have been sent out.  DO NOT POST DURING THIS TIME.  SERIOUSLY JUST DON'T DO IT.  NOT EVEN MEMES.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on April 30, 2018, 10:04:43 PM
Role PMs have been sent out.  If you have a problem with this, message me privately.  It is now Day 1.  Day 1 ends roughly 48 hours from now, at exactly 4:00 PM CST on May 2, regardless of when the actual update comes. 

YOU MAY POST

Discord:
  https://discord.gg/XvEtkUK
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on April 30, 2018, 10:46:45 PM
Hello everyone welcome to the game
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on April 30, 2018, 11:40:25 PM
It's good to be back!

In case it wasn't obvious, if you're a special you shouldn't claim, even if you're the guardian (due to the potential of being roleblocked).
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 01, 2018, 12:44:45 AM
hello erryboddy
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 01, 2018, 01:08:47 AM
What does a brutal wolf do? Also, I'll be mia till about wednesday.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 01, 2018, 01:10:02 AM
If they're lynched, one of the people voting for them is killed as well. Usually randomized.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 01, 2018, 01:11:48 AM
Well fuck that roll or role, eheheh
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 01, 2018, 01:44:30 AM
Reporting in.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on May 01, 2018, 01:49:38 AM
I should probably report in for anyone whose not on Discord or hasn't read it yet. Hi, I'm here.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 01, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
Captain's Log: THC ate my sandwich and E. Gadd stole my mail.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 01, 2018, 06:50:46 PM
So our specials need to be careful to not die if we lynch a Brutal Wolf. Though, if we have a Seer, then there is no chance of there being a Brutal Wolf, so our Seer in that case doesn't need to be wary with their vote.


Also for anyone who hasn't noticed, this is a day start, so we have around 24 hours now to lynch someone
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 01, 2018, 07:30:54 PM
Here is a log that Greg gave me permission to post

log
Toby added NocturneOfShadow to the group.Today at 6:19 AM
Toby - Today at 6:20 AM
I don’t think you are a normal human
gzgregory - Today at 6:20 AM
uh okay
you kinda said that already
is this because of my post telling people not to claim
Toby - Today at 6:21 AM
that along with how you avoided claiming human
I know you’re not much of a false claimer(edited)
gzgregory - Today at 6:22 AM
okay well
I'm not a special
but I'm down to roll with it and dodge around the question if you think that'll fool wolves
Toby - Today at 6:22 AM
You didn’t say you weren’t a wolf
And I only said I didn’t think you were normal human
gzgregory - Today at 6:23 AM
uhh I'm not a wolf either?
idk maybe I interpreted what you said wrong
I read it as that you don't think I'm a normal human
but that you still thought I was human
Toby - Today at 6:24 AM
You seem to be panicking a little
I can smell it
but I think you’re a wolf now
gzgregory - Today at 6:24 AM
well let's see if I can change that impression
be a pretty awful comeback to TWG getting mislynched on the first day
Toby - Today at 6:25 AM
are you trying to gain pity from me
gzgregory - Today at 6:25 AM
nah I was mostly being facetious
Toby - Today at 6:26 AM
By saying you want to change my impression rather than giving yourself a defence of some sort up front, suggests you are taking my thoughts of you quite seriously
And you didn’t acknowledge that I said I thought you panicked a bit
Does that mean it’s true
And are you not defending yourself so that you don’t show yourself off as panicking more
gzgregory - Today at 6:27 AM
It's a fair impression to have!
I'll admit that it's a bit of an nerve-wracking being interrogated like this over reasoning I don't really understand or agree with
but I mean, come on, do you really think I'd have any qualms claiming human as a wolf
Toby - Today at 6:29 AM
I could go on forever I LOVE it
Missed you greggy
But I must sleep
[close]

If anyone wants to comment on it please do, I'll refrain from doing so atm in hopes that it could generate a bit of chat

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 02, 2018, 12:24:18 AM
Trasdegi log
[11:15 AM] Trasdegi: Hi
[11:16 AM] Trasdegi: I was wondering, what does Toby's wolf game look like?
[11:16 AM] Trasdegi: i.e. does he also go around questioning and recation- testing people like he's doing?
[11:17 AM] Trasdegi: Since you're a veteran, I figured you might know
[11:25 AM] gzgregory: iirc Toby is always like this, more or less
[11:25 AM] gzgregory: although it's been long enough that I don't remember in detail
[11:26 AM] Trasdegi: hmm
[11:26 AM] Trasdegi: that won't really help us, but thanks, anyway
[11:26 AM] gzgregory: sure
[11:27 AM] gzgregory: did you read bds and olimar's argument?
[11:27 AM] gzgregory: I'm curious what you think about it
[11:28 AM] Trasdegi: well, they argued very strong over nothing more than early-game jokes and misunderstandings
[11:29 AM] Trasdegi: I don't see that as w/w because that was too strong for someone just wanting to distance themselves
[11:29 AM] gzgregory: w/w meaning wolf/wolf right?
[11:29 AM] Trasdegi: like, it got to the point that it looks suspicious
[11:29 AM] Trasdegi: yes
[11:29 AM] gzgregory: okay well
[11:29 AM] gzgregory: what about the possibility they're both human
[11:30 AM] Trasdegi: that's (of course) possible
[11:30 AM] Trasdegi: in that case, very dedicated humans at finding suspicious people
[11:31 AM] gzgregory: yeah but do you think it's what happened
[11:32 AM] gzgregory: or do you think one of them's a wolf
[11:32 AM] Trasdegi: well, both seem as likely to me
[11:33 AM] gzgregory: did one of them come off as more suspicious in your opinion
[11:33 AM] gzgregory: sorry for grilling you like this, but since I haven't played with you before I gotta know what your deal is!
[11:34 AM] Trasdegi: I'm glancing through it again
[11:36 AM] Trasdegi: Olimar seemed more aggressive to me
[11:36 AM] gzgregory: alright thanks for your thoughts!
[11:37 AM] gzgregory: personally I think Olimar's suspicious but it's for an unrelated reason
[11:37 AM] gzgregory: namely, he said that he keeps forgetting there's three wolves in the game
[11:37 AM] gzgregory: which seems to me like an attempt to make himself look like he's not a wolf
[11:37 AM] Trasdegi: hmm, true
[11:37 AM] gzgregory: BUT WHO KNOWS
[11:38 AM] Trasdegi: of course
[close]

E Gadd log
[11:38 AM] gzgregory: hey so
[11:38 AM] gzgregory: I don't believe we've played together before
[11:39 AM] E. Gadd Industries: Nope
[11:39 AM] gzgregory: so I'm gonna make an effort for once and try to figure out what your deal is!
[11:39 AM] E. Gadd Industries: Also hi, nice to meet you
[11:39 AM] E. Gadd Industries: What my deal is? You mean like questions or...?
[11:39 AM] gzgregory: oh uh
[11:40 AM] gzgregory: did you ever go by a different name on the forum
[11:40 AM] E. Gadd Industries: No, I’ve always been E. Gadd
[11:40 AM] gzgregory: ok just checking
[11:40 AM] gzgregory: yeah I'm gonna ask you some of your thoughts
[11:40 AM] gzgregory: about the BDS/Olimar argument that happened earlier
[11:41 AM] gzgregory: since that's the big thing I guess???
[11:41 AM] gzgregory: did you read through it
[11:41 AM] E. Gadd Industries: I read through (I think it was) the second half
[11:43 AM] gzgregory: what'd you think about it?
[11:43 AM] gzgregory: i.e. do you think either (or both) came off as suspicious
[11:45 AM] E. Gadd Industries: It was odd, but then again, I can’t say I’m surprised something like that came up; this is a day start, so people will try to look for ANYthing remotely suspicious to try to ensure a somewhat-safe lynch (sorry, I’m maintaining irl conversations)
[11:45 AM] E. Gadd Industries: I gtg to Stats, so I’ll talk in a bit
[11:46 AM] gzgregory: aight seeya
[11:50 AM] E. Gadd Industries: I’ll be back in approx. an hour:rolling_eyes::rolling_eyes:
[1:21 PM] E. Gadd Industries: To continue my thoughts, I don’t believe they’re both wolves, because that would be WAYYYYYY too risky of a move, imo. I’m more inclined to believe they’re both humans that got way too into it (because iirc, BDS has done stuff like that in previous day-start games). If anyone’s a wolf, I’d think it’d be Olimar; I don’t recall how defensive he usually is, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen him THIS defensive. But I also believe we’d be better off to look for suspicious activity elsewhere & only lynch Olimar if absolutely nothing else appears
[4:04 PM] gzgregory: cool, thanks for your thoughts!
[close]

So here's a couple of logs I have with Tras and E Gadd. To summarize, I asked both of them for their thoughts on the BDS/Olimar argument that occurred in the chat earlier: both of them find it unlikely for both of them to be wolves (which I agree with), and both of them leaned towards Olimar looking more wolfy out of the two.

Another interesting fact: THC mentioned in the chat briefly that he thought Olimar looked more suspicious as well.

My original thought was that Olimar seemed wolfy due to a previous comment he'd made, where he said that he kept forgetting that there were actually three wolves. This seemed like an attempt to make himself look like he wasn't a wolf to me, at first glance. However, the consensus that Olimar is suspicious is making me second-guess my initial impression, and now I think it's unlikely he's actually a wolf. Thoughts?

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 12:34:27 AM
greg u dirty little sneak
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 02, 2018, 12:56:26 AM
The BDS/Olimar chat, for reference
[11:54 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: @Olimar12345 that's not the part i found the most suspicious
[11:54 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: and beside
[11:54 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: that doesn't change my reasons for finding your jokes suspicious
[11:55 PM] Olimar12345: You finding my shitposts suspicious on a day start game only makes you look suspicious.
[11:56 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[11:56 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: nice omgus there
[11:56 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: "you finding me suspicious for being suspicious is suspicious"
[11:57 PM] Olimar12345: You left out the meat of my post which was regarding my nonsense posts
[11:57 PM] Olimar12345: Another thing a wolf would do
[11:58 PM] Olimar12345: Don’t be dumb
[11:58 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: what
[11:58 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: pls explain
[11:58 PM] Olimar12345: Explain what
[11:58 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: Why you think I "left out the meat of my post"?
[11:58 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: I disagree.
[11:59 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: I was citing examples.
[11:59 PM] Olimar12345: I didn’t say you were suspicious because you suspected me
[11:59 PM] Olimar12345: I said it would be suspicious of you to suspect me for my joke posts
[11:59 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: To be honest, your reaction to all of this is making me more certain of my suspicion.
[11:59 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: exactly
[11:59 PM] Olimar12345: Oh boy here we go
May 1, 2018
[12:00 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: My main point was that your jokes felt uneasy to me, or rather forced.
[12:00 AM] Olimar12345: Maybe because I was trying to get conversation started
[12:00 AM] Olimar12345: Another thing you fail to see apparently.
[12:01 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Well, that's a pretty bad way to get conversation started.
[12:01 AM] Olimar12345: Not on day 1
[12:01 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Yeah.
[12:01 AM] Olimar12345: Esp. With no night prior
[12:01 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Even on Day 1.
[12:01 AM] Olimar12345: Enlighten us then on how we should all know the wolves on day 1
[12:01 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Like I said, you also seem very jumpy right now.
[12:02 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: "Enlighten us then on how we should all know the wolves on day 1" I don't think that has anything to do with what I said.
[12:03 AM] Olimar12345: Well clearly posting frivolously isn’t allowed, according to you
[12:03 AM] Olimar12345: Or is a wolfy thing to do apparently
[12:03 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: I never said that tho
[12:03 AM] Olimar12345: When every game starts like that(edited)
[12:04 AM] Olimar12345: I bet you’re one of them.
[12:05 AM] Olimar12345: You’re pushing this waaaay to hard rn to be human.
[12:05 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: I wasn't pushing it hard at all until you started deflecting toward me
[12:05 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: I just said "y'know, I kinda find Olimar a little suspicious"
[12:05 AM] Olimar12345: Well ofc I’m going to deflect toward you(edited)
[12:05 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: that's not a "OLIMAR MUST BE A WOLF" kind of thing
[12:06 AM] Olimar12345: It’s low-hanging fruit for a wolf to try to rationalize the irrational
[12:06 AM] Olimar12345: i.e. suspect the joking posts(edited)
[12:06 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Most of the conversation between Toby and I was defending my own answer when he wondered if I was distancing with you.
[12:06 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: I disagree, actually.
[12:07 AM] Olimar12345: I didn’t even get a chance to read the log tbh
[12:07 AM] Olimar12345: I just got back from splatoon playing
[12:07 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: smh olimar
[12:07 AM] Olimar12345: That’s what you get when you ping me
[12:08 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: I think interpreting the content of joke posts (coughMikeycough) is a bit unreliable, but analyzing how they're presented is fine.
triggerfished1
[12:08 AM] Olimar12345: Never seen the brave little toaster, huh?
[12:09 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: When I was little, yeah, but not in a while.
[12:09 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Still not sure what that has to do with things, especially because I just mentioned that content is less important.
[12:09 AM] Olimar12345: Lol bds trying to analyze nonsense
[12:10 AM] Olimar12345:

[12:10 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: you know that's not what i'm trying to do
[12:11 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: and i'm pretty sure you're just going on a smear campaign because you know i'm on to you
[12:11 AM] Olimar12345: That gif was pretty good though amirite
[12:11 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: i guess
[12:12 AM] Olimar12345: Lol, you’re “on to me” huh
[12:12 AM] Olimar12345: Let me ask you this then:
[12:12 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: yeparoni macaroni
[12:12 AM] Olimar12345: Are you a wolf?
[12:12 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: Nope!
[12:13 AM] Olimar12345: Case closed.
[12:13 AM] BlackDragonSlayer: :morton2:
[12:13 AM] Olimar12345: Except there are still three unfound wolves
[12:14 AM] Olimar12345: But on an actually serious note, we need to actually hear from more people.
[close]

The context is that BDS thought that Olimar was suspicious due to his "jokes". This is from a few hours earlier:

[9:39 PM] BlackDragonSlayer: Yeah. Kinda getting shaky vibes from Olimar overall, especially how... uh, uneasy, I guess... his jokes seem to be.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 01:10:49 AM
So here is a log with me and tras that was in the public game chat, I share some of my quick thoughts on the bds/olimar talk

Log
Toby - Yesterday at 6:55 PM
tru
(assuming you are all caught up on the chat) do you think anyone in particular is coming across as odd
Trasdegi "Trasdegi" - Yesterday at 6:57 PM
Bds and Olimar were arguing pretty strong
About pointless things and misunderstandings
But I don't really know how to read that, like it can be just everything
Toby - Yesterday at 6:59 PM
i dont think it is in bds' playstyle as a wolf to distance himself so much so early(edited)
so i dont think it is a wolf/wolf interaction(edited)
Trasdegi "Trasdegi" - Yesterday at 7:00 PM
And two wolves wouldn't argue so hard to the point we start pointing that out as suspicious
You're trying to get things going, and I read that as town
A wolf would have no reason to try to get people to talk and create matter to read on, except to earn himself human points, but he probably wouldn't put such dedication to it
And it seems to me you often do that as human
Toby - Yesterday at 7:06 PM
true i guess, but you havent seen me as a wolf so be wary :kissing_heart:
[close]

Tras and E.gadd have shared similar opinions on this. I understand why Tras' would be similar to mine, as though I think he actually already had the same opinion if you look at how close the timestamps are in my log. But I'm wondering if e. gadd is just piggy backing off of this opinion to seem like he has an opinion on it?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 02, 2018, 02:50:31 AM
Sorry for not being too active, but I have been keeping up with the discord! Kudos to Toby for stirring the pot so we actually have something to work with. I'm going to be on a hw gind for the rest of the phase so gonna vomit everything I have right now.

the list
1. Greg

Sorry dude, I was actually looking forward to playing with you but it'd be pretty bad for me to let you slide for that reason. My suspicion here is the same reason for raeko in game 100, except instead of being one tiny syntax thing it's literally everything you say, particularily when Toby was grilling you:


Spoiler
Quote
Toby - Yesterday at 7:08 PM
Greg what’s your role
Greg - Yesterday at 7:10 PM
@Toby the only viable response here is human though?
Toby - Yesterday at 7:11 PM
And I’m close to already knowing your role Greg
Greg - Yesterday at 7:11 PM
interesting
uhh is it human
because that'd be pretty boring lmao
guessing you think it's more interesting than that?
[close]

Maybe it's because you're rusty, but you have little confidence in everything you say. Wolves will always be nervous when asked a question like this or when posting their thoughts in general. Thus far, everything you've said is either deflective, noncommital, quoting someone else, or ends in a question mark. You're also very present and active without actually contributing much.

2. Trasdegi

This is based on one thing, but I feel somewhat confident in it. Your human meta is very apathetic and uncertain, your wolf meta is being more cheerful and helpful without laying down any strong opinions. Right now you're firmly in the latter.

3. Olimar

I know you're agressive, abusive, and meme-o-licous as a human... but you were just being straight up mean. I'm reading this as either spite for being stuck in this game instead of hosting your own or a wolf that got poked a little to hard by BDS.

4. Toby
You're d1 mvp right now so I can't really hold you as a wolf, but I'm wary. I can't find the quote, but you said something lilke " but you don't know my wolf meta" in response to people thinking you're human and that comes across as a wolf at ease to me. It's almost like you were mocking us. Not suspicious, just wary :p

ALSO ALSO

Spoiler
Quote
Toby - Yesterday at 11:19 AM
i just want to be wolf
whats a brutal wolf again?
if they die they kill someone?
[close]

First thing said in the discord. I asked the same question in the thread, so I'll shamelessly take my hippocrit title, but if we find out this game has a brutal wolf you're immediately at the top of my list.

5. BDS
People are thinking you're human because of that whole thing with Olimar. I don't think it really means much because when provoked, you're a stubborn arguing machine. What really tips me off that you're human is, iirc, you started it, which just seems like that absolutely last thing wolf BDS would do. Toby made a good point that in Hydrodoodle, you expressed distancing day one to be a terrible strategy, so I think we can rule out olimar + BDS.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 02, 2018, 03:21:55 AM
So I think I'm actually gonna vote for ThatHiddenCharacter. Reason being these two things he said on discord:

[5:10 PM] ThatHiddenCharacter: Just read the thread (and skimmed what I missed here), and I'd like to mention the fact that I was the first to voice my suspicion of Oli based on the BDS/Oli convo.
[5:11 PM] ThatHiddenCharacter: And I gave my reasoning. That E. Gadd and Tras seemed to have possibly copied.

[5:35 PM] ThatHiddenCharacter: @Toby What are your thoughts on me right now? I know you saw me as suspicious before and I want to see what you think now.

These really strike me as coming from someone who's overly concerned with whether they appear to be human or not. I'll admit that it's a point in his favor that he was the first to voice an opinion regarding BDS/Olimar, but it's certainly not that he thought it necessary to bring it up as a point in his favor (especially when there was only some mild suspicion on Toby's part directed his way at that point).

@FireArrow: I was initially under the impression that Toby was also joking (along the lines of Olimar) when he said the stuff in your log. As for my lack of confidence, it's pretty fair, but that's more down to me hating day starts than anything else, I think.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 03:39:14 AM
Already said this on discord, but I think thc might just be trying to better his human play, and that’s what he is concerned with, how he can better improve discussion as a human player.

Although it’s thc and it’s a dramatic difference from his human play last game so I’m wary



Blue flower hi
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 02, 2018, 04:21:54 AM
Hey guys.

I don't see enough evidence to go on a Greg bandwagon at the moment. His reaction to Toby's jabbing seemed human enough. Toby attempting to stir the pot at the start is also pretty in character and human.

The only person who's being different than normal is Olimar, who I'll place a vote on now for no other reason than the stark contrast between his playing (or lackthereof) now and his extreme activity last game (when he was a human). This isn't really anything concrete but it's the best I've got at the moment.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 02, 2018, 06:45:48 AM
Toby made a good point that in Hydrodoodle, you expressed distancing day one to be a terrible strategy, so I think we can rule out olimar + BDS.
IIRC, I said that bussing Day 1 in a game with only two wolves was a terrible strategy. Which it is.


Also, leaning human on Greg at this point. I don't think he'd have that sort of opinion toward Olimar if he thought there was even a slight chance Olimar could be lynched today; it would just look bad for him.

either that or he could be trying to pick up after olimar's mess
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 02, 2018, 08:19:36 AM
The discord is really active, but I would like to encourage thread activity as well. Reading through the thread is much easier than scrolling through the discord and therefor makes it a lot easier to cross reference things and find the wolves. Discord is useful for reaction testing and stuff, but general discussion that you want everyone to read and respond to should go here first.

Quote
@FireArrow: I was initially under the impression that Toby was also joking (along the lines of Olimar) when he said the stuff in your log. As for my lack of confidence, it's pretty fair, but that's more down to me hating day starts than anything else, I think.

Maybe I'm not used to your playstyle, but it's things like this that really rub me the wrong way. Is it because you hate day starts or not? It's like you're trying to avoid sticking to an answer so you can take it back it ends up coming across wolfy.

olimooo stuf

He's been fairly active in the discord.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
Just caught up with the thread. I’ve been discord-only until now.

@Blue this is what you get for not joining the discord chat. Your vote on me is extremely suspicious and bandwagon-y, because you know that I have been active there but choose not to peruse that before voting for me.

To anyone finding me suspicious for the conversation I had with BDS, don’t be sheep. BDS is either playing a shit human game or wolf pushing me based on nothing. For those of you that don’t know my human playstyle, literally look at the last game I played and reread the start of it:

http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=9982.0

I posted all sorts of shit like this on the first phase (granted it was a night phase). Posting dumb frivolous jokes on the first phase is a thing that plenty of people do, and while you might not like it, it is hardly grounds for a lynch. I’ve already mentioned how Brainy made a dumb post here in the thread and no one is suspecting him. Reread more phase 1’s from past games and you will see plenty of this.

Regarding the “forgetting of three wolves” thing, this goes back pregame where Mikey decided last minute to make it 3/8 rather than 2/9. I posted about this in the discord channel (general iirc) and said that it was a wolf-sided decision that I thought was dumb to do. I can post that log next time I’m on my pc if needed.

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 03:14:00 PM
So I think I'm actually gonna vote for ThatHiddenCharacter. Reason being these two things he said on discord:

[5:10 PM] ThatHiddenCharacter: Just read the thread (and skimmed what I missed here), and I'd like to mention the fact that I was the first to voice my suspicion of Oli based on the BDS/Oli convo.
[5:11 PM] ThatHiddenCharacter: And I gave my reasoning. That E. Gadd and Tras seemed to have possibly copied.

[5:35 PM] ThatHiddenCharacter: @Toby What are your thoughts on me right now? I know you saw me as suspicious before and I want to see what you think now.

These really strike me as coming from someone who's overly concerned with whether they appear to be human or not. I'll admit that it's a point in his favor that he was the first to voice an opinion regarding BDS/Olimar, but it's certainly not that he thought it necessary to bring it up as a point in his favor (especially when there was only some mild suspicion on Toby's part directed his way at that point).

@FireArrow: I was initially under the impression that Toby was also joking (along the lines of Olimar) when he said the stuff in your log. As for my lack of confidence, it's pretty fair, but that's more down to me hating day starts than anything else, I think.

Is this the only reasoning you have for voting THC? If it is, It seems like a stretch especially given how the whole BDS and Olimar situation is going. Sure I'll give you points for not bandwagoning but I don't think you know THC's meta enough to vote for him straight away
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 02, 2018, 03:42:18 PM
Is this the only reasoning you have for voting THC? If it is, It seems like a stretch especially given how the whole BDS and Olimar situation is going. Sure I'll give you points for not bandwagoning but I don't think you know THC's meta enough to vote for him straight away

The fact is, I don't really know/remember anyone's meta well this game (except maybe for Toby, but I haven't played with him either in forever), but I still gotta vote for somebody and THC pinged my wolf radar pretty hard. (Feel free to enlighten me, though!)

Also not really sure what you mean by how the BDS/Olimar situation is going. At this point I seriously don't think Olimar's a wolf after even more people (blueflower, FA) came out against him in Discord and the thread, but BDS didn't come across as particularly wolfy to me either in that exchange. Seems to me that the best option here is to bring in discussion of a third option.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 03:50:30 PM
Seems to me that the best option here is to bring in discussion of a third option.
I agree. Though THC is far from a good third option
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 04:00:09 PM
Also here's the log that Toby wanted me to post here

pm with Olimar and me
Pearl - Yesterday at 7:28 PM
Hey i trust you over BDS btw
just gonna put that out there
Olimar12345 - Yesterday at 9:44 PM
Uh okay
Olimar12345 - Yesterday at 10:31 PM
Why is that
Pearl - Today at 7:32 AM
For one, you seem to be playing like you normally do. Despite this, people are seeming to call you out on playing differently.
Olimar12345 - Today at 8:02 AM
Not only do I already know that, but I have already said that.
What else.
Pearl - Today at 8:02 AM
Wait where did you say that?
I just have a general gut feeling that you're being attacked for no reason
Olimar12345 - Today at 8:03 AM
In discord and in thread.
Pearl - Today at 8:04 AM
Let me check NSM
Olimar12345 - Today at 8:06 AM
If you disagree with bds’ suspicion of me, go post something substantial in the thread.
Pearl - Today at 8:21 AM
Well, it's more of a gut feeling, Oli. It's not much to go on. I'll let them know i'm siding with you though
[close]
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 04:03:13 PM
Wow you already posted it? There’s like nothing to that log yet.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 04:10:49 PM
Never mind, I just saw the discord chat.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 04:25:12 PM
I agree. Though THC is far from a good third option

Who would you say makes a better third option?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 04:34:19 PM
Who would you say makes a better third option?
Tras, E. Gadd, Blueflower, Raeko, are all possible canidates, but if I had to pick one, i'd say Trasdegi or Blueflower are good canidates.

Tras for how he's playing and Blue for lack of contributin, placing a vote on Olimar for reasons that Olimar is doing a good job defending imo
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 04:52:52 PM
^to tack onto the Blue thing, I’d like to reiterate that Blue knew the least about the situation and was the first to place a vote on it.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 02, 2018, 05:33:54 PM
Phase ending in 4 hours 30 minutes
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 05:49:23 PM
^to tack onto the Blue thing, I’d like to reiterate that Blue knew the least about the situation and was the first to place a vote on it.

I like this point.


Also, apparently blueflower, you don't use discord? Is there any chance you would be able to for this game?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 07:12:40 PM
Voting Blueflower for reasons in my previous posts. Willing to change if some of the people I've pinged in the discord chat decide to come and converse about other options.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 02, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
I agree. Though THC is far from a good third option

Can you explain why?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 08:01:55 PM
I'm going to place my vote on Blueflower. Olimar's point was something i never took into account in my post criticizing blueflower, so it's kind of swayed my vote.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 08:16:00 PM
Can you explain why?
Because there are several better options which have more backing to them
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 02, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
Just caught up with the thread. I’ve been discord-only until now.

@Blue this is what you get for not joining the discord chat.
*shrugs* If anyone wants to talk to me they can just message me personally. :P Reading the thread is much more important than joining a supplemental group chat. This is a forum-based game.

Quote
Your vote on me is extremely suspicious and bandwagon-y, because you know that I have been active there but choose not to peruse that before voting for me.
Uh, no? Firstly I specified that it wasn't a strong suspicion. Secondly it's not a bandwagon because I wasn't following in anyone else's footsteps. Thirdly I had no way of knowing whether you're active in the Discord or not because I'm not in it.

This is my general level of activity. Compare it to the previous game where I was a human. This in addition to the fact that there are less active players than me (one hasn't even posted in the thread yet) leaves me curious why I'm being targeted.

in my post criticizing blueflower
Where is this? I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on May 02, 2018, 08:37:39 PM
HOOOOKAY gonna be honest, I’ve not looked at this thread at all until just now. Sooooo yeah. Sorry!! I’ll be more active! Anyhoo, to comment on the suspected possibility that I just copied Tras’s reasoning, I’m rather confused... both reasoning were shared via PM, and I haven’t really communicated with anyone (aside from Greg, obviously). My presence overall in this game has been minimal (again, sorry!!) but my reasoning still stands. That said, I do want to take a bit more time to read through and more deeply analyze posts and such. Could someone provide a tl;dr of major events on Discord (aside from the BDS/Olimar kerfuffle)? Is there anything?
Also, I’m going Olimar just in case I can’t get around to making my other post before phase end. This is for reasoning given in the log Greg posted. STAY TUNED FOR MORE
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 08:39:17 PM
Where is this? I'm not seeing it.
Tras, E. Gadd, Blueflower, Raeko, are all possible canidates, but if I had to pick one, i'd say Trasdegi or Blueflower are good canidates.

Tras for how he's playing and Blue for lack of contribution, placing a vote on Olimar for reasons that Olimar is doing a good job defending imo
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 02, 2018, 08:41:28 PM
But given your statement, I'm more inclined to vote Tras now. You made some good points in your defense post
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 08:50:16 PM
Anyhoo, to comment on the suspected possibility that I just copied Tras’s reasoning, I’m rather confused... both reasoning were shared via PM, and I haven’t really communicated with anyone (aside from Greg, obviously).

My point on that was moreso you were piggy backing on this reasoning that was also made public. see the log I posted when I brought up this possibility
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:27:32 PM
Before i start, please note that I call BrainyLucario, Pearl a lot.


So a point to make against brainy, i don't like how they have been constantly taking a different independent opinion to everyone else, and supporting it with little reasoning. They did this with the olimar/bds dispute, see here:
here
Toby - Today at 12:13 AM
what i think is interesting is that tras and e. gadd both said they thought that olimar and bds couldn't be h/h because it seemed like ... just too much was put into it I guess?
now this is also an opinion I shared in public
I would like to know if anyone else it agreeing/disagree with this thought
my thought was more based on bds' side. When I played in hydradoodle, bds was my human partner, and when discussing in the final 3 if we thought the wolf was pikachu or samus, bds defended samus because he thought he distanced himself too much from waluigi (an already dead and confirmed wolf)  day 1
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:44 AM
i think it could be h/h
Toby - Today at 12:45 AM
hi pearl!
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:45 AM
Hello
Toby - Today at 12:45 AM
you do? can you give any extra reasoning as to why
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:47 AM
Well, it's mostly the fact that we're automatically assuming that this argument is important and outlines a wolf.
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:48 AM
Sure, this conversation should be looked at as we continue but pointing fingers at olimar for something as stupid as this is never a good idea
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:50 AM
I'm definitely not going to play an aggressive game this time, given my last two games
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:50 AM
so don't expect me to rush to conclusions
(i wasn't finished)
Toby - Today at 12:50 AM
pearl, I don't think we are necessarily saying it's important, but I think it showed a lot of content and personality from olimar
are you all caught up in the chat, pearl?
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:51 AM
Not really
Toby - Today at 12:51 AM
have you read the entire bds/olimar chat?
Greg - Today at 12:52 AM
we should probably post that in the topic
so it's more accessible
gimme a sec
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:53 AM
no i'm not
Toby - Today at 12:53 AM
pearl, do you think it's fair to give your thoughts on the situation and read it as 'stupid' when you havent read it's entirety ?
are you trying to distance yourself from the idea of being a wolf by having an independent opinion?
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 12:55 AM
My opinion is neutral on this anyways.
It usually is neutral
[close]

Me and greg were also having a conversation at the time but I cut it out to make this an easier read.

So pearl knows little information on the situation between bds/olimar, but still wants to stand out and have an opinion on the matter. It is as if they want to distance themselves from the idea they could be a wolf, because they are seemingly putting themselves into conflict and sharing strong opinions. When in fact, pearl didn't have the info necessary for an opinion like such to be valid.


As time went on Pearl still retained her approval for Olimar:

its in here
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 2:27 PM
Well if it makes you feel better I'm saying it now. My activity past 4 o'clock CST will be next to none
Also, I've come to a decision.
Between BDS and Olimar, I'm going to have to side with Olimar
It's mostly a gut feeling, but I feel like their is just a universal agreement that olimar is the wolf out of these two.
[close]

But can only back it up with a gut feeling, I just feel like after reading the logs themselves, and seemingly feeling strong about olimar without even reading it, as a human they would at least be able to back up their viewpoint with something

Also, recently Brainy has given the thought that THC is following his usual meta

see here
Greg - Today at 8:22 PM
yo Brainy lemme rephrase my question
why do you disagree with my reasoning for voting for THC
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 8:22 PM
Because your reasoning seems based on how he's acting now and not his meta
this is normal
Greg - Today at 8:23 PM
anyone else down to corroborate that feeling?
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 8:24 PM
Hewooo
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 8:24 PM
I mean THC  is a decent lynch but i just don't think it's the best one to choose now
Toby - Today at 8:24 PM
i dont think this is normal of thc though
and i dont think anyone else thinks its normal
you're the only one who has said its normal, pearl
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 8:25 PM
I mean vote for him if you want. I'm not stopping you
Toby - Today at 8:25 PM
not even thc said this is normal for him
[close]

So Pearl is saying this is normal for THC, when in fact, I don't think anyone, not even THC believes he is acting within his norm?

aaaand, something slightly separate but still relevant, the fact that Pearl didn't let us know that their activity levels would drop due to irl circumstances, and instead E. Gadd had to let us know instead, rubbed me up the wrong way. Here's a little log when I ask Pearl about this:

da log
Toby - Today at 2:03 PM
Pearl, I would have thought it just be more humanly for you to say it yourself rather than have E. Gadd do it for you, it’s as if you might have wanted to keep it hidden but you still let your friend E. Gadd know
I wouldn’t say I make assumptions, more like point out possibilities, and then I wish for people to comment on them to see how possible they are
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 2:27 PM
Well if it makes you feel better I'm saying it now. My activity past 4 o'clock CST will be next to none
Toby - Today at 2:30 PM
If you have a reason why you didn’t  say your activity would be restricted before, I’d like to here it, or was it something that you just didn’t give much thought of I guess ?
Pearl (BrainyLucario) - Today at 2:30 PM
The latter
[close]

I gave them a safe option and they took it 'the latter' I would have wanted more from a human, an excuse as to why E. gadd did it for us. tbh I shouldn't have given the safe option, but I felt bad for grilling and digging into irl stuff.

Like do E. gadd and Pearl know each other irl and did Pearl tell/text E. gadd or something outside of discord/twg that they wont be active and E. gadd was supposed to let everyone know? Or did Pearl just think to not mention it, but E. Gadd, a human, thought hey, it's in best interest for humans to know that one of the player's activity levels are going to drop.



just putting some points out here, and I want E. Gadd to give a good comment on what he thinks of Pearl, maybe reveal any logs with Pearl, and especially comment on this last point I have made and let us know exactly how that sort of situation where he knew of Pear's activity levels, happened.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 09:30:11 PM
Brainy whatchu up to

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 09:30:25 PM
Ninjad by a long post
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:39:15 PM
vote count:

olimar 2 (blueflower, e. gadd)
brainy 1 (olimar)
greg 1 (firearrow)
tras 1 (brainy)

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:41:00 PM
Olimar, please dont make a vote based on nothing. You said you were ninja'd so it clearly has nothing to do with my post
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:44:31 PM
17 mins till phase end guys
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Trasdegi on May 02, 2018, 09:46:04 PM
Olimar, you said you were ninja'd, but did you really take 3min to write 4 words? That seems a little too convenient for me... You vote without reasoning after a big post giving reasoning for you... Also, please send your pms with Brainy like Torby asked.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:46:11 PM
vote count:

olimar 2 (blueflower, e. gadd)
brainy 1 (olimar)
greg 1 (firearrow)
tras 1 (brainy)

i was incorrect, real vote count:

vote count:

olimar 2 (blueflower, e. gadd)
brainy 1 (olimar)
greg 1 (firearrow)
tras 1 (brainy)
THC 1 (greg)

(addition of gregs vote)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:47:11 PM
real real vote count:

olimar 3 (blueflower, e. gadd, tras)
brainy 1 (olimar)
greg 1 (firearrow)
tras 1 (brainy)
THC 1 (greg)

(addition of tras' vote)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 02, 2018, 09:49:22 PM
My vote was based on brainy’s flaky-ness, shortness of answers when pressed (see: Toby), and weird pm’s to me. I thought this would be obvious from the discord chat. Seriously guys, you’re about to waste a lynch on me. Humans need to come forward now.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:54:13 PM
Also here's the log that Toby wanted me to post here

pm with Olimar and me
Pearl - Yesterday at 7:28 PM
Hey i trust you over BDS btw
just gonna put that out there
Olimar12345 - Yesterday at 9:44 PM
Uh okay
Olimar12345 - Yesterday at 10:31 PM
Why is that
Pearl - Today at 7:32 AM
For one, you seem to be playing like you normally do. Despite this, people are seeming to call you out on playing differently.
Olimar12345 - Today at 8:02 AM
Not only do I already know that, but I have already said that.
What else.
Pearl - Today at 8:02 AM
Wait where did you say that?
I just have a general gut feeling that you're being attacked for no reason
Olimar12345 - Today at 8:03 AM
In discord and in thread.
Pearl - Today at 8:04 AM
Let me check NSM
Olimar12345 - Today at 8:06 AM
If you disagree with bds’ suspicion of me, go post something substantial in the thread.
Pearl - Today at 8:21 AM
Well, it's more of a gut feeling, Oli. It's not much to go on. I'll let them know i'm siding with you though
[close]

So because of this log I was really thinking olimar was human, the fact he just doesn't immediately accept brainy's approval for him awards him with lots of human points. Also, he asks brainy to give better reasoning for thinking he (olimar) is human, and tries to drive human efforts from brainy.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:55:04 PM
Brainy based on what I've already said, and how I'm rathering it to a Olimar lynch, and I don't see Olimar/brainy being w/w ever.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 02, 2018, 09:57:56 PM
Looks like nobody else agrees with me regarding THC, so I'm fine with voting for Brainy as a better lynch than Olimar.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 02, 2018, 09:58:57 PM
real real vote count:

olimar 3 (blueflower, e. gadd, tras)
brainy 3 (olimar, toby, greg)
greg 1 (firearrow)
tras 1 (brainy)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Trasdegi on May 02, 2018, 10:00:27 PM
brainy
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 02, 2018, 10:01:49 PM
TWG CV (Off the Grid I):  Roll of the Dice


THE GRID |Roll 1Roll 2Roll 3
Roll 4One-shot VigilanteBrutal WolfVanilla Human
Roll 5Human Odd-Night SeerVanilla HumanVanilla Wolf
Roll 6Wolf RoleblockerHuman GuardianVanilla Human

3 Wolves
8 Humans

At the beginning of the game, a 6-sided die is rolled.  The number rolled will determine how the setup is filled; a roll of 2 would produce the following setup:

1 Brutal Wolf
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans

Whereas a roll of 6 would produce the following setup:

1 Wolf Roleblocker
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans


There will always be 3 wolf-aligned roles and 8 human-aligned roles.  They are merely replaced by the roles in the grid.

Players:
1. Olimar12345
2. BlackDragonSlayer
3. Trasdegi
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. BrainyLucario
6. Toby
7. blueflower999
8. Greg
9. raeko
10. FireArrow
11. E.Gadd Industries

BrainyLucario was lynched!  He was a Vanilla Human.  It is now Night 1.  Night 1 ends 24 hours from now, on May 3 at 4:00 PM CST
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 03:00:04 AM
Have a juicy log on bds where i quite harshly judge him and reaction-ish test-ish him

juice
BlackDragonSlayer - Yesterday at 11:22 PM
Aaaaand I slept through the phase end.
I should have voted for Olimar before I went to bed, honestly, but I still wasn't 100% certain I should do that just in case anything else came up.
Reading through all the thread, I'm even more suspicious of Olimar because, even after I repeatedly explained to him why I found him suspicious, he doesn't seem to get why and seems to be attributing it (likely intentionally) to the idea that I'm suspicious of him because he was telling jokes, not, like I have repeatedly said, the way he went about it.
also brainy lynch was dumb
@Toby Reason I said what I did regarding asking others to explain if anything important had occurred in my absence is because I read through the first part of the log, didn't see anything really important, then lightly skimmed through the rest. I do that all the time.
May 3, 2018
Toby - Today at 12:05 AM
Not voting is dumb
Oh so you had already skimmed through it ?
But still asked if there was anything important that occurred ?
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:08 AM
Yeah, because I might have missed something, silly. :stuck_out_tongue:
that's kind of what skimming is
Toby - Today at 12:10 AM
Maybe you need to work on your skimming method !!!
Or you’re just scrolling instead of skimming
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:12 AM
no
Toby - Today at 12:14 AM
why not just read
rather than skim
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:15 AM
because it was long
and i'm not gonna read through a bunch of useless stuff
Toby - Today at 12:17 AM
oh well hunting wolves sucks i guess
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:18 AM
I don't know, to me, reading through the thread and reading through Discord are different beasts.
Because Discord has much, much more quantity (usually), and often much less usable content.
Toby - Today at 12:21 AM
almost everything posted in topic about anyone, is referencing something a person did on discord
i feel like that means paying attention to discord is useful
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:23 AM
that's why you provide relevant logs
this is basic stuff toby
Toby - Today at 12:25 AM
i mean i dont want to speak for everyone and i might miss something
i feel like reading content is basic stuff
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:26 AM
Yeah, but not everybody should be forced to read through tons of useless drivel just to find the lil' bits of meat, which they might miss entirely regardless because they don't know what they're looking for when looking back at a conversation they weren't actively involved in.
RELEVANT LOGS are a thing, and not a new thing at that.
Toby - Today at 12:30 AM
its ok, if i need to reference back to something in the middle of useless drivel that i wasn't apart of, at a time it may become relevant, I'll post the logs for everyone else to see
so is there a reason why you've been very quiet this game
like are you ok, it seems like you took a huge gap of inactivity are you super busy with stuff
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:35 AM
An restarting my computer because lag.
I don't think I've been quiet at all though.
Toby - Today at 12:37 AM
you have 3 posts in topic
you made 4 posts in discord 13.3 hours before phase end (you returned around 15 hours afterwards, 1.3 hours after phase end), 1 post two hours before these 4, then before that your next post is 22 hours before, when you were 'active'. this time would be around 35 hours before phase end. So yeah, I think you've been quiet, because your last active period was about 39 hours ago
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:45 AM
I was the one who brought up the whole thing about Olimar, which I'd say had quite the impact so far.
Reason I wasn't very active yesterday is because my dad was visiting + seeing Infinity War.
Toby - Today at 12:45 AM
is there a reason why for the big gap? laying low cause a wolf, disinterested? busy irl stuff?
ok
well true about olimar thing, but that happened at the start of the phase
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:46 AM
And, like I said, I waaaay overslept because I'm tired, plus, because the semester's over, I technically don't have any reason to get up early.
Toby - Today at 12:46 AM
you slept 15 hours?
or how long did you sleep for
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:47 AM
It was probably less than that.
though it probably was around 11 hours
Toby - Today at 12:47 AM
dont you look at your phone before bed and when you wake up
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:48 AM
Sometimes, not always.
Toby - Today at 12:48 AM
ok i really think you just purposefully avoided phase end
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:48 AM
i didn't
2PM is just a weird time to end a phase, IMO.
That's why I usually end my phases around 5-8 Pacific Time.
Toby - Today at 12:49 AM
so is 4am but i either stay up or set my alarm to make it for phase end
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:49 AM
-_-'
Toby - Today at 12:50 AM
your not gonna win with an awkward time excuse
you're
did you know what time the phase ended at or did you only realise when you woke up
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:50 AM
I'm usually good at waking up when I absolutely have to (exams, important meetings, etc. usually not including TWG), but other than that, I'll usually sleep later rather than earlier.
That's how my body and sleep patterns work.
Toby - Today at 12:53 AM
yeah i sleep a lot too but i always get up to date with everything before bed and after i wake up
are you caught up on the topic?
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:58 AM
Yes
also not everyone holds themselves to the same standards you do
this is an important lesson for twg and life
Toby - Today at 12:59 AM
hey, did you know what time the phase ended at or did you only realise when you woke up
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:59 AM
probably not
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:00 AM
I'd err on the side of "I probably just assumed it ended later than it did without checking"
Toby - Today at 1:00 AM
what
this is such a straight yes or no question
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:01 AM
well the answer isn't
so maybe you should change your question
Toby - Today at 1:01 AM
well can you give a answer without a 'probably'
a correct one
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:01 AM
this whole line of questioning is petty and extremely strange
I've already given you my answer; if you don't like it, maybe you're asking the question the wrong way.
Toby - Today at 1:02 AM
did you know what time the phase ended, before it ended?
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:02 AM
Also, you're focusing particularly on me and not being so judgemental of other people who pretty much did the exact same thing I did.
Toby - Today at 1:02 AM
is anyone else here
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:02 AM
idk
Toby - Today at 1:02 AM
me tiehr
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:02 AM
but they sure were earlier
Toby - Today at 1:03 AM
yeah, but you were 'sleeping'
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:03 AM
'sleeping'
:morton2:
Toby - Today at 1:03 AM
i still really want a straight answer for if you knew what time the phase ended
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:04 AM
I already gave you my answer. It is accurate.
Toby - Today at 1:04 AM
did you take time to look up when it ended
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:04 AM
I know I did at the beginning of the game, but I probably forgot it and assumed it ended later than it did without bothering to go back and check.
Toby - Today at 1:05 AM
phase ended just over 4 hours ago how can you not be more sure
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:05 AM
I am giving you an answer.
Toby - Today at 1:05 AM
but its not even the correct one
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:06 AM
It is.
I don't know why you assume it isn't correct.
Toby - Today at 1:06 AM
you're making assumptions rather than telling it straight
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:06 AM
No, I am telling it straight.
Toby - Today at 1:06 AM
@Alive help
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:07 AM
I don't know what you want out of me.
Toby - Today at 1:07 AM
a wolf is trying to deceive me help
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:07 AM
I am answering accurately to the situation. I don't know what else you want out of me.
Toby - Today at 1:08 AM
i want you to not guess your answer
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:08 AM
what do you mean
i am not guessing
Toby - Today at 1:08 AM
'probably'
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:08 AM
i am telling you what happened
Toby - Today at 1:08 AM
'assumed'
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:08 AM
because that is what happened
If you're not satisfied with the answer, then the probably is probably with you.
Toby - Today at 1:11 AM
you're clearly wanting to avoid giving a straight answer, as to not fall into the trap I have set for you, if you  answer a certain way. but you've just created a whole new trap for yourself that i 'assume' you 'probably' fell straight into
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:11 AM
there is not trap
if i were a wolf
i would give you a yes/no answer
and thus avoid explaining the nuance of the situation
A wolf would just say yes/no without elaborating on anything.
I don't know why you're making this so ridiculously complicated for yourself.
Toby - Today at 1:13 AM
im assuming that answering honestly, you know will look bad for you, and you're afraid to answer dishonestly, so you just want to give a vague answer instead
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:13 AM
I AM ANSWERING HONESTLY
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T GET ABOUT THAT
Toby - Today at 1:14 AM
why can you not just say whether or not you thought the phase ended sooner/later than it did
instead you're adding that you probably thought that
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:14 AM
i gave you an answer
it is the answer that is true
i don't know what else you want me to say
Toby - Today at 1:14 AM
meaning that i'm reading and from a constructive view should ignore that because it's an uncertainty
its like asking someone holding an ice cream cone if they bought ice cream and they answer i dont know
or in your case
answering 'probably'
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:15 AM
no
no it isn't
Toby - Today at 1:16 AM
yeah its actually worse in your case
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:16 AM
no
no it isn't
ur being silly bub
Toby - Today at 1:16 AM
because there's no third party in the equation (ice cream man) its all just about you and your thought process with no third party factors yet you still cant give a straight answer lmao
lets stop i have my day 2 vote
my fingers are tired
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:18 AM
...
ask a dumb question get a dumb answer
Toby - Today at 1:20 AM
so now you defend your actions to say that my question was dumb
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:20 AM
I already said that.
I simply said it again.
"this whole line of questioning is petty and extremely strange"
"I've already given you my answer; if you don't like it, maybe you're asking the question the wrong way."
You are shooting yourself in the foot when you ask the wrong questions and get what you perceive are the wrong answers.
Toby - Today at 1:24 AM
pls tell me what is the question i should have asked
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:24 AM
You shouldn't have. :morton2:
[close]

My thoughts on it are mostly already said inside, but I think bds is really just wanting to avoid a straight answer to the last question, which my thoughts on that are already covered. It's also odd he kind of planted the seed with the olimar thing, which he brings up as him thinking was him having a sufficient impact on the game:

BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:45 AM
I was the one who brought up the whole thing about Olimar, which I'd say had quite the impact so far.

it's interesting because he disappeared after this adding nothing to it, and couldn't even show up to vote.

Now he has repetitively said in chat he thought the Brainy lynch was dumb and that we should have lynched Olimar instead. This is someone who has barely read the chat, making a comment that the lynch that everyone else had been active for the whole time, was dumb.


Here is another log with me and bds which is very weak but I think he still behaved oddly, and I know blueflower doesn't see discord so this is also for him to see another me/bds interaction this game

log
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:42 AM
Is it possible both of you are wolves and you’re using this early moment to distance yourself
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:42 AM
I mean, it is possible, but I don't think it's very likely.
:wink:
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:43 AM
Wouldn’t you know whether or not it was false/true 100%
Rather than saying it’s possible and very unlikely
I would expect a human to say no because they know their role pm
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:44 AM
From my perspective, yeah, but not from your perspective, or anybody else's.
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:45 AM
But as a human shouldn’t you be looking at everything from your perspective rather than  trying to think about how things are viewed from everyone else’s perspective
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:45 AM
So if I say "obviously not" then that doesn't hold up from any other perspective.
My answer was in regards to the outsider perspective.
No, I don't think so, especially in regards to an answer like this.
If I give an answer from my own perspective, then it's absolutely useless.
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:46 AM
But what if it’s the answer everyone wants
Because we want to read you
So I want your perspective
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:47 AM
For a question like that, it's still useless though.
If you want a serious answer to the question, it does no good.
Because when answering the question, my perspective is, of course, useless.
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:48 AM
But what if someone thought it was useful, should you really write it off as being useless?
Greg - Last Tuesday at 5:48 AM
this seems like a strange line of questioning
after all, wouldn't a wolf also know for sure?
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:48 AM
"But what if someone thought it was useful" then i would have trouble taking them seriously
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:49 AM
I don’t think I’ve seen you ever not answer a question properly because you don’t take it seriously, as a human
You seem to answer everything very logically no matter the question
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:49 AM
"not answer a question properly" see, that's a matter of opinion
but i am pretty sure i have answered things outside my own perspective before
because
as i said
my perspective would be useless in such answers
It's called "trying to be objective."
Toby - Last Tuesday at 5:50 AM
But I would rather for such a question directed towards you that you would give your perspective and not everyone else’s
I think it’s wolf like to think about other people’s perspective before your own
BlackDragonSlayer - Last Tuesday at 5:52 AM
I disagree, personally. But if you really think that, I guess I can't change your opinion.
[close]

maybe someone can take something more from that
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 03, 2018, 06:07:51 AM
Riddle me this, Toby: why, as a wolf who really wanted to lynch Olimar that badly, would I intetionally not show up to vote for him? If you had actually bothered to check my "last active" time you would've known I actually wasn't online during that time (who would've guessed, oh wait, everybody because I was blunt about it ::) ).
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 03, 2018, 01:55:37 PM
Kill Tras now. Trust me. KILL TRAS!!!!
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 02:19:27 PM
Riddle me this, Toby: why, as a wolf who really wanted to lynch Olimar that badly, would I intetionally not show up to vote for him? If you had actually bothered to check my "last active" time you would've known I actually wasn't online during that time (who would've guessed, oh wait, everybody because I was blunt about it ::) ).

im not a stalker

Plus I didn’t think about checking your last active times until you came online, so would be useless.

Also, you probably didn’t want to have participated in the lynching of a human. Or maybe being part of the lynch has nothing to do with it, but your desire to contribute to the game for the lynch was certain lacking. I think that is more of a wolf trait for you personally, than a human trait.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 02:20:30 PM
Kill Tras now. Trust me. KILL TRAS!!!!

Also you’re dead, you can’t say game related stuff, not even in a death post.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BrainyLucario on May 03, 2018, 02:32:49 PM
Also you’re dead, you can’t say game related stuff, not even in a death post.
Quote that rule then
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 02:41:49 PM
Quote that rule then

Quote
3. Only living players are permitted to post in a TWG game thread. Dead players are not permitted to post or discuss the game with surviving players. Living players are not allowed to send private messages to dead players. People not in the current TWG are prohibited from posting in the game thread.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 03, 2018, 03:03:36 PM
Rekt
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 03, 2018, 04:04:39 PM
Quote that rule then
have you, like, never played TWG before
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 03, 2018, 10:02:55 PM
Olimar died he was the guardian it is now day 2 this has been mobile updates
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Olimar12345 on May 03, 2018, 10:06:07 PM
(https://morbotron.com/gif/S05E07/1239187/1245226.gif?b64lines=IFdpdGggbXkgbGFzdCBicmVhdGgsIEkKIGN1cnNlIFpvaWRiZXJnIQ==)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 03, 2018, 10:06:40 PM
Additionally, brainylucario has been issued a warning
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 10:19:36 PM
This happened on discord:

Olimar12345 - Today at 9:15 PM
Raeko is right; discussion during the night only helps the wolves.
If there is a special human role, they can function independently.
It’s not worth shooting our selves in the foot.
Just to maybe help a special

This is the only reason I really see for someone to target Olimar - with the thought he could be special.

This happened 45mins before phase end though, so it would be a bit of a quick change that I don't see one wolf making on his own.

Below is the a list of members last active times:

Greg: Today at 15:50:31
Bds: Today at 20:09:24
firearrow: Today at 21:43:49
Blue: Today at 18:14:47
Thc: Today at 18:36:28
E. gadd: Today at 16:16:15
Tras: Today at 22:09:33
Raeko: April 30, 2018, 22:27:59

The only thing to add onto this, is when searching I noticed THC was online on discord, but his last active time was about 6 hours ago for the forum.

If we are to believe at least 2 wolves communicated and changed the wolfing based on this discord post, that would leave:
THC
FireArrow
Trasdegi
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 10:31:36 PM
Also, apparently there's an important log between olimar and Tras that should be revealed? Olimar's last words:

Olimar12345 - Today at 9:12 PM
Oh sorry I forgot this chat was the place for that.
If I die peruse bds and tras.
I don’t think I’m likely to die, but jic
Toby - Today at 9:51 PM
tras is like number 1 human in my books
Olimar12345 - Today at 9:52 PM
The day 1 vote paired with the obliviousness to night talk is strong
Toby - Today at 9:53 PM
mostly because of this chat he initiated with greg, in private
[11:15 AM] Trasdegi: Hi
[11:16 AM] Trasdegi: I was wondering, what does Toby's wolf game look like?
[11:16 AM] Trasdegi: i.e. does he also go around questioning and recation- testing people like he's doing?
[11:17 AM] Trasdegi: Since you're a veteran, I figured you might know
[11:25 AM] gzgregory: iirc Toby is always like this, more or less
Olimar12345 - Today at 9:53 PM
Lol why would he ask Greg
Out of everyone else
Toby - Today at 9:54 PM
i havent been a wolf here yet since i joined back
and i had mentioned knowing greg from the past
Olimar12345 - Today at 9:54 PM
How would Greg remember though
He just got back too
Toby - Today at 9:55 PM
yeah but idk, he might have thought greg would remember
he started the chat like just after i had mentioned no one had seen my wolf game
Olimar12345 - Today at 9:55 PM
T-5 till death of someone
Huh.
Why is asking about your wolf game suspicious?
Toby - Today at 9:59 PM
no its good
not suspicious
Olimar12345 - Today at 9:59 PM
If I die ask tras for the log with me and him
Toby - Today at 9:59 PM
why whats on it?
Olimar12345 - Today at 10:00 PM
Just ask him for it, it's only important if I die though
Toby - Today at 10:01 PM
lol ok
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on May 03, 2018, 10:49:29 PM
The only thing to add onto this, is when searching I noticed THC was online on discord, but his last active time was about 6 hours ago for the forum.
I have my computer on and Discord is open in the background. I haven't actually been on Discord since I was last on the forums.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 03, 2018, 10:51:20 PM
Well, I guess that's another explanation for Olimars d1 shit.

Alrighty I've been waiting to say this all night: the Toby and BDS conversation was the dumbest TWG thing I've read...

Toby: Why are you so intent that not being around for a phase change is wolfy? Like, news flash, setting an alarm for 4 am to read the phase change is not something most people do. Hell, this should be so obviously true I'm slightly suspicous of you for even bringing that up. It feels like you were just trying to dig up random shit on BDS just look like you're wolf hunting. Also, brutal wolf is on the table and mah eyebrows are la raised.

BDS: You know how any other human would of answered to Toby's assault? "No, I've got a life other than TWG." Instead, you did this weird ass thing were you completely avoiding giving a straight answer and run your mouth justifying all these things you don't need to justify. To put it in Toby words, it looked like you were trying to avoid a trap he set... what's funny is the said trap didn't even exist. The fact that you couldn't of just given a consise, honest response for missing the phase change (something that happens to most people), really doesn't look good in your favor.

Moreover, Toby did bring up a good point that you showed up talking about your strong suspicion for Olimar (who ended up being the gaurdian!) and strong human read on brainy only too disappear and come to say "I told you so?" Wolves aren't invested in actually saving their human reads or getting their wolf targets lynched, and this just reeks of that. Like, maybe you had real life things stopping you but you didn't even vote. As the guy supposedly good enough to represent NSM, you should at least know that not voting is bad for humans 100% of the time.

Basically, I'm pretty sure one of toby or BDS is a wolf and I'm strongly leaning BDS. For wolf partners, I'm thinking Tras and Greg for reasons outlined previously. Tras I'm a bit confused on because I've been relying on meta reads for him and have no idea how to interpret his active behind the scenes presense (which usually points human, but I'm thinking it might point wolf for him), but all will be settled when we get those logs.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 03, 2018, 11:56:19 PM
log of something maybe noteworthy in the future:

Spoiler

Toby - Today at 11:24 PM
firearrow, do you think it's possible now that we know there's a brutal wolf, they might try and get themselves lynched?
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:25 PM
Probably a bad trade
And lynching a brutal is still worth it for us
So I'm not concerned
Toby - Today at 11:26 PM
yeah good point, at least we know there's no specials left that need to worry specifically about getting killed by it, but its still good to have it confirmed there's a brutal wolf
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:27 PM
As of right now, it doesn't look like anyone is intentionally trying to die at least
Toby - Today at 11:28 PM
@ThatHiddenCharacter what do you think
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 11:28 PM
About everything?
Toby - Today at 11:28 PM
no just about what i said regarding now that we know there's definitely a brutal wolf
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 11:28 PM
I need to check the thing again, one sec
There could still be a roleblocker instead of a brutal
Toby - Today at 11:29 PM
thats correct
but firearrow didn't correct me on that
interesting...
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 11:30 PM
He might not have remembered the exact setups
I knew what you said didn't seem right though
Toby - Today at 11:31 PM
he referenced Brutal wolf in his latest post here; "Also, brutal wolf is on the table and mah eyebrows are la raised.
" which i think suggests he took time to note what the setup could be
I was thinking from that quote he was already suggesting the brutal wolf is confirmed
but only a wolf would know that
but that was weak so i wanted to question him here and see if he corrected my assumption the brutal wolf is definitely in play
and he got two chances and failed, but you picked up on it right away
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 11:34 PM
I guess that's last-resort suspicious
The Tras and BDS stuff seems better to go off of first though
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:35 PM
Yeah I misread your question as under the assumption
reread it and you did specify "we know there's a brutal" or r something
Toby - Today at 11:37 PM
yes but missing this bit was even weirder 'but its still good to have it confirmed there's a brutal wolf'
and can you explain this "Also, brutal wolf is on the table and mah eyebrows are la raised. " from your post, its as if you assumed there the brutal wolf is in play
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:37 PM
It's really not that weird because we should be playing under the assumption that there is a brutal
Because role blocker does jack shit
Oh explaination for that
If there is a roleblocker, I'm less suspicious of you
Otherwise for all intents and purposes we should play as if there is a brutal in play
Toby - Today at 11:39 PM
so you think i could be brutal trying to get killed
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:40 PM
No
Why would I just to the conclusion that you were trying to kill yourself just because you're a brutal?
Or that you're the brutal and not your partner?
Toby - Today at 11:41 PM
I just dont get why you brought up having your brows raised on me because of the brutal
i want to understand :<
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:41 PM
Because you asked about brutals in the chat when the game started
Toby - Today at 11:41 PM
oh
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:41 PM
Rather than asking in the sign ups or something
Toby - Today at 11:42 PM
ok i get you, you brought that point up before
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:37 PM
Because role blocker does jack shit
i didnt even think of that yet
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:42 PM
I thought you already said something on it
errr
Toby - Today at 11:43 PM
i mentioned nothing of a roleblocker
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:43 PM
it wasn;t; that
but it was something about a role blocker
an wolves not caring about something?
fuck i don't want to read through the chat and find it
Toby - Today at 11:44 PM
i dont think i've talked about a roleblocker in chat
i posted in topic now we know there is a roleblocker or brutal wolf
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:44 PM
so this means there is either a brutal wolf, or a wolf roleblocker
but it's confirmed for humans that we are now all just vanilla, so even though the wolves know what roll we are on they get no real extra benefit really
right at the phase change
Toby - Today at 11:45 PM
Toby - Today at 10:04 PM
so this means there is either a brutal wolf, or a wolf roleblocker
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:45 PM
Toby - Today at 12:44 PM
i dont think i've talked about a roleblocker in chat
Toby - Today at 11:45 PM
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 11:28 PM
There could still be a roleblocker instead of a brutal
all mentions of roleblocker
yeah sorry i forgot i did that
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:46 PM
So you remembered that there was a possible roleblocker but didn't consider that there was no longer a role for them to block?
Toby - Today at 11:46 PM
i actually didnt put it in topic looks like, i figured i would have said something important like that in topic
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:46 PM
Or just completely forget that you thought about that
Toby - Today at 11:47 PM
no i forgot that now guardian is dead there is no role for them to block
Gerik "FireArrow" - Today at 11:47 PM
Alright
[close]

i think it explains itself so i dont need to waffle
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 04, 2018, 12:23:10 AM
I want to know who thought it would be a good idea to wolf Olimar when he was a very likely lynch target this phase (essentially, the wolves sacrificed a near-certain chance at a mislynch for... some reason). That means heavy suspicion on people who were adamant or even otherwise slightly expressed that they thought Olimar was a human (including people who voted for Brainy).

Also:
BDS: You know how any other human would of answered to Toby's assault? "No, I've got a life other than TWG." Instead, you did this weird ass thing were you completely avoiding giving a straight answer and run your mouth justifying all these things you don't need to justify. To put it in Toby words, it looked like you were trying to avoid a trap he set... what's funny is the said trap didn't even exist. The fact that you couldn't of just given a consise, honest response for missing the phase change (something that happens to most people), really doesn't look good in your favor.
I did say that (not in those exact words, however), but Toby kept pressing. I maintain that I gave an accurate, honest, and thorough answer.

Quote
Moreover, Toby did bring up a good point that you showed up talking about your strong suspicion for Olimar (who ended up being the gaurdian!) and strong human read on brainy only too disappear and come to say "I told you so?" Wolves aren't invested in actually saving their human reads or getting their wolf targets lynched, and this just reeks of that. Like, maybe you had real life things stopping you but you didn't even vote. As the guy supposedly good enough to represent NSM, you should at least know that not voting is bad for humans 100% of the time.
Firstly, before the time I was gone, there was pretty much no indication that Brainy was anywhere close to being a serious lynching target. Secondly, I already admitted that not voting for Olimar when I had the chance was a mistake.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 04, 2018, 12:24:12 AM
Olimar12345 - Today at 9:15 PM
Raeko is right; discussion during the night only helps the wolves.
If there is a special human role, they can function independently.
It’s not worth shooting our selves in the foot.
Just to maybe help a special
To be honest, that's a really weak reason to suspect Olimar as a special.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 04, 2018, 12:36:51 AM
Private Log With E. Gadd
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 6:37 PM
Hokay, I’m not friends with Mikey, I don’t guess, sooo I’ll just send this to him later.
Anyhoo, what was that all about?

Golden Silver - Yesterday at 6:38 PM
toby was being dumb
and then claiming it made me suspicious for not giving an underdeveloped answer to his silly question
I gave him a very in-depth and completely accurate answer, and apparently, he wasn't satisfied enough with that.

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 6:40 PM
See, I read through it all, and yeah, I honestly don’t see where you’re at fault here. I still think Toby’s a human, if not just a tad more obsessive than I previously thought him to be, but still, that’s put some uncertainty in my read on him

Golden Silver - Yesterday at 6:41 PM
I think it looks bad for him being so obsessive, but that's just me personally.

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 6:41 PM
Like the whole “I set an alarm to get up at 4 AM just to play TWG” :thonk:

Golden Silver - Yesterday at 6:42 PM
yeah
like
does he seriously expect everyone to do that
like
sometimes i just completely sleep through my alarms
whoooooo
sometimes i don't
there's not a simple yes/no answer to that
"do you sleep through your alarms"
"well sometimes i do, sometimes i dont"
"i want a yes/no answer"
...

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 6:43 PM
Idk, there’s credibility on both sides, but I’m leaning more in your favor (of being human). And I still think Olimar’s being hecka petty and if anyone’s a wolf of you three, it’s him.
YEAH EXACTLY, I don’t get that
[close]
Strong human lean on E. Gadd right now, because it's very unlikely he would have agreed to wolfing Olimar.

Tras, I think, is a lot more suspicious, because if he were a wolf, he would know that Olimar isn't a wolf, and also that Olimar was very likely to be the next lynching target (thus securing two mislynches), though that doesn't entirely explain why Olimar was then wolfed. Tras and Toby could make interesting partners, and it wouldn't surprise me if Toby would be willing to bus Tras for his suspicious end of phase vote switch (leading to the pressure that's building up on Tras).
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 12:43:05 AM
Tras and Toby could make interesting partners, and it wouldn't surprise me if Toby would be willing to bus Tras for his suspicious end of phase vote switch (leading to the pressure that's building up on Tras).

it was pretty much me that made Tras switch vote. it wasn't suspicious. his olimar vote was based on olimar's weird vote, which got cleared up.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 01:10:35 AM
sorry

raeko
raeko - Today at 12:46 AM
I just got home
Toby - Today at 12:46 AM
do you know your role
raeko - Today at 12:46 AM
I'll work on catching up on things this evening
... Yes? Lol
Toby - Today at 12:47 AM
how
forum says your last active time was before role pm's were even sent out
unless someone told you your role over discord :thinking:
raeko - Today at 12:56 AM
that's not reliable, I checked my PM
Toby - Today at 12:57 AM
it updates every time you go to a new page, including messages
raeko - Today at 12:57 AM
we're not going down this route
no we are not
this is the reason i browse as private on FFR
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:58 AM
blame me for getting toby on the route of checking "last active" times
Toby - Today at 12:59 AM
feelsbad i hate using it, i dont stalk whoisonline, i just wanted to see who was last active recently
raeko - Today at 1:00 AM
if you keep hounding me for this I am going to think you're a wolf, looking for an easy out because I haven't been here, I won't take it lightly so consider if that's a real point you want to consider as a part of the game or not :wink:
you can call me out for literally anything else
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:04 AM
"looking for an easy out" i mean, he's already done that with me
Toby - Today at 1:06 AM
the point is out there i wont add anything else
[close]
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2018, 01:35:22 AM
I forgot e gadd was in this game and I dont like he chooses the little activity he has to be behind the scenes.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2018, 01:52:18 AM
@BDS if you could control todays lynch, who would it be?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 04, 2018, 01:57:01 AM
Tras or Toby, most likely.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: raeko on May 04, 2018, 02:38:45 AM
sorry

raeko
raeko - Today at 12:46 AM
I just got home
Toby - Today at 12:46 AM
do you know your role
raeko - Today at 12:46 AM
I'll work on catching up on things this evening
... Yes? Lol
Toby - Today at 12:47 AM
how
forum says your last active time was before role pm's were even sent out
unless someone told you your role over discord :thinking:
raeko - Today at 12:56 AM
that's not reliable, I checked my PM
Toby - Today at 12:57 AM
it updates every time you go to a new page, including messages
raeko - Today at 12:57 AM
we're not going down this route
no we are not
this is the reason i browse as private on FFR
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 12:58 AM
blame me for getting toby on the route of checking "last active" times
Toby - Today at 12:59 AM
feelsbad i hate using it, i dont stalk whoisonline, i just wanted to see who was last active recently
raeko - Today at 1:00 AM
if you keep hounding me for this I am going to think you're a wolf, looking for an easy out because I haven't been here, I won't take it lightly so consider if that's a real point you want to consider as a part of the game or not :wink:
you can call me out for literally anything else
BlackDragonSlayer - Today at 1:04 AM
"looking for an easy out" i mean, he's already done that with me
Toby - Today at 1:06 AM
the point is out there i wont add anything else
[close]

Hi thread! Get ready for me to show you all how Toby is a wolf

Let's start with the fact that he posted this log of his "suspicions" about me after I called him out in the Discord for being objectively wolfy.

I called him out for PR hunting. PR hunting, especially very early in the game, actively harms town. And look! Our PR is dead :thinking:

this is the PR hunting I'm talking about

Here is a log that Greg gave me permission to post

log
Toby added NocturneOfShadow to the group.Today at 6:19 AM
Toby - Today at 6:20 AM
I don’t think you are a normal human
gzgregory - Today at 6:20 AM
uh okay
you kinda said that already
is this because of my post telling people not to claim
Toby - Today at 6:21 AM
that along with how you avoided claiming human
I know you’re not much of a false claimer(edited)
gzgregory - Today at 6:22 AM
okay well
I'm not a special
but I'm down to roll with it and dodge around the question if you think that'll fool wolves
Toby - Today at 6:22 AM
You didn’t say you weren’t a wolf
And I only said I didn’t think you were normal human
gzgregory - Today at 6:23 AM
uhh I'm not a wolf either?
idk maybe I interpreted what you said wrong
I read it as that you don't think I'm a normal human
but that you still thought I was human
Toby - Today at 6:24 AM
You seem to be panicking a little
I can smell it
but I think you’re a wolf now
gzgregory - Today at 6:24 AM
well let's see if I can change that impression
be a pretty awful comeback to TWG getting mislynched on the first day
Toby - Today at 6:25 AM
are you trying to gain pity from me
gzgregory - Today at 6:25 AM
nah I was mostly being facetious
Toby - Today at 6:26 AM
By saying you want to change my impression rather than giving yourself a defence of some sort up front, suggests you are taking my thoughts of you quite seriously
And you didn’t acknowledge that I said I thought you panicked a bit
Does that mean it’s true
And are you not defending yourself so that you don’t show yourself off as panicking more
gzgregory - Today at 6:27 AM
It's a fair impression to have!
I'll admit that it's a bit of an nerve-wracking being interrogated like this over reasoning I don't really understand or agree with
but I mean, come on, do you really think I'd have any qualms claiming human as a wolf
Toby - Today at 6:29 AM
I could go on forever I LOVE it
Missed you greggy
But I must sleep
[close]

If anyone wants to comment on it please do, I'll refrain from doing so atm in hopes that it could generate a bit of chat

He said he was attempting to gain a reaction. This is clearly not all he was intending since he could get a reaction by asking any number of other things. The way it started doesn't even seem like a reaction test it seems like pure not-giving-a-shit PR hunting. I've brought this to his attention, and his response has cemented the fact that he is a wolf.

Since I'm calling him a wolf he's decided I'm a wolf. It's classic OMGUS. His main argument involves some inaccurate out of game information about when I supposedly last logged in and checked my PMs. I would like to point out to the thread that 1) I did check my PMs, the forum time or something else was inaccurate and 2) even if I hadn't checked my PMs, this makes absolutely no difference to the game. I would have the same random chance of being a wolf whether or not I read my own PM. I don't even understand how this is meant to implicate me in any way since it doesn't make a difference. It has no bearing on the game whatsoever. Whether or not humans eyes read a PM would not change my role and if you didn't think I was wolfy for any other reason, this makes absolutely zero sense as a reason to consider.

I'd like to point out that he tried to use the exact same strat against BDS. Doesn't seem like very legit wolf hunting to me

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2018, 02:49:31 AM
Check your settings. Forum time is accurate but you could have the wrong timezone set.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: raeko on May 04, 2018, 02:56:26 AM
I 100% have the wrong time zone set on my own account because I never changed it, but shouldn't other people's personal settings apply when viewing my profile?

either way, this isn't relevant to the game. It shouldn't really be discussed since it's actually out-of-game information, but anyway
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 04, 2018, 04:03:15 AM
TWG CV (Off the Grid I):  Roll of the Dice


THE GRID |Roll 1Roll 2Roll 3
Roll 4One-shot VigilanteBrutal WolfVanilla Human
Roll 5Human Odd-Night SeerVanilla HumanVanilla Wolf
Roll 6Wolf RoleblockerHuman GuardianVanilla Human

3 Wolves
8 Humans

At the beginning of the game, a 6-sided die is rolled.  The number rolled will determine how the setup is filled; a roll of 2 would produce the following setup:

1 Brutal Wolf
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans

Whereas a roll of 6 would produce the following setup:

1 Wolf Roleblocker
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans


There will always be 3 wolf-aligned roles and 8 human-aligned roles.  They are merely replaced by the roles in the grid.

Players:
1. Olimar12345
2. BlackDragonSlayer
3. Trasdegi
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. BrainyLucario
6. Toby
7. blueflower999
8. Greg
9. raeko
10. FireArrow
11. E.Gadd Industries

Olimar12345 was murdered!  He was a Guardian.  It is now Day 2.  Day 2 ends 48 hours from my earlier post, roughly 42 hours from this post, on May 5 at 4:00 PM CST.
[/quote]
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on May 04, 2018, 05:18:19 AM
Just gonna jump in here & say that I never checked my role PM (officially) until sometime today. But I’ve known since the start of the game (or near then) because I checked my emails and anytime I get a PM here, I get an email containing the message. So there are definitely ways around Toby’s argument here.

I forgot e gadd was in this game and I dont like he chooses the little activity he has to be behind the scenes.
I mean, it’s more convenient for someone rushing around trying not to drown in responsibility to talk to people in real time than to sit down and type out a post like this. But I guess whatever. I’ll definitely be trying to be more active as the game progresses, and I’m actually developing some reads. Those will be posted sometime tomorrow. This gives me time to finalize everything, scrap together posts & the like.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2018, 05:45:05 AM
When Im inactive I most definitly prefer posting to the thread so I dont have to put in the effort of maintaining a convo. Aboiding the thread just looks like you don't want to give people a chance to read you, so I don't buy ypur response.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 04, 2018, 05:47:39 AM
Also pretty sure raeko is human becuase a wolf would not go balls deep into the most active player after being gone for so long.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 04, 2018, 06:02:38 AM
Truthfully the fact that Toby wasn't wolfed and Olimar leads me to believe that EITHER the wolves somehow found out Olimar's role (or had very good reason to believe that he was a special role) OR Toby is a wolf, because he seems like an obvious target (going around accusing everyone).
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 01:22:27 PM
Just gonna jump in here & say that I never checked my role PM (officially) until sometime today. But I’ve known since the start of the game (or near then) because I checked my emails and anytime I get a PM here, I get an email containing the message. So there are definitely ways around Toby’s argument here.
I mean, it’s more convenient for someone rushing around trying not to drown in responsibility to talk to people in real time than to sit down and type out a post like this. But I guess whatever. I’ll definitely be trying to be more active as the game progresses, and I’m actually developing some reads. Those will be posted sometime tomorrow. This gives me time to finalize everything, scrap together posts & the like.

Sure but Raeko said they checked their role PM on the forum, so I don’t think they used their email or whatever. I think they were told their role by their wolf bud over discord.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 01:23:24 PM
Also pretty sure raeko is human becuase a wolf would not go balls deep into the most active player after being gone for so long.

I believe they think they have no choice
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 01:26:06 PM
Truthfully the fact that Toby wasn't wolfed and Olimar leads me to believe that EITHER the wolves somehow found out Olimar's role (or had very good reason to believe that he was a special role) OR Toby is a wolf, because he seems like an obvious target (going around accusing everyone).

I agree I probably should have been wolfed, which is why I’ve been searching for some way that the wolves must have known Olimars role.

And I don’t think I’m accusing everyone, I’ve probably put most people in possible scenarios where their behaviours could be justified by being a wolf, but the only real suspicions I have right now are bds and raeko

Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 04, 2018, 02:37:39 PM
Voting for Toby early just in case. :morton2:
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 03:01:29 PM
Hi thread! Get ready for me to show you all how Toby is a wolf

Let's start with the fact that he posted this log of his "suspicions" about me after I called him out in the Discord for being objectively wolfy.

...

Since I'm calling him a wolf he's decided I'm a wolf.

Forgot to respond to this

Both these points are false. If you checked time stamps you would see that I posted first, not you.


Everything else I already responded to in chat and I posted the log
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 03:18:07 PM
Voting for Toby early just in case. :morton2:

Interesting how you vote before Raeko when you’ve contributed very little to “Toby v Raeko”. Also since your last viewpoint on it was this (on phone so can’t give proper log but you can search it in chat for your own reference until I post it properly earlier):

BlackDragonSlayer Today at 2:19am
Toby is acting so obviously suspicious, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if he has a point about you not logging on until after role PMs were sent out.
Then again, he could easily be lying.

It seems like you were still thinking about it, and unless you have a sure judgement it doesn’t seem reasonable to vote before Raeko, who is presenting everything against me.

You also add in the point where I could be lying. Me lying about a hard fact anyone can check is silly, but nowhere you suggest that Raeko can be the one lying, instead you suggest this:

BlackDraonSlayer Today at 2:21am
It's completely natural to doubt yourself.

Just seems like a bit of a contrast to how you’re approaching the different sides of Toby v Raeko.



Also seems like you like being suspicious of being opposing you, see olimar
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: raeko on May 04, 2018, 05:08:27 PM
I believe they think they have no choice

do you really think your angle shooting scares me at all? It doesn't, I assure you. I'm going after you because your behaviour is objectively wolfy ;)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 04, 2018, 10:45:31 PM
Here's a suspicion list. I think one of the most interesting things we have to go on is Olimar's wolfing: it seemed like a very strange wolfing to me given that Olimar was getting lynched until the last few minutes of Day 1. Some of the thoughts I had about that are reflected below.

1. Toby
I think one of Toby or BDS is probably a wolf, and I'm definitely leaning towards it being Toby, mostly due to his weird accusation of raeko (which she's already gone into at length). Toby said some other stuff later in Discord:
Spoiler
[5:15 AM] Toby: @Greg raeko said they knew their role, forum last active times says she hadn’t looked at her PM, so my thought was someone on discord, her wolf bud pm’d her wanting to talk about game stuff and that’s how she knew her role
[close]
but it's strange that he didn't just say that to begin with.

One thing I struggled to reconcile was the fact that Toby was the one who spearheaded the late lynch Day 1 which saved Olimar, making the wolfing from his perspective illogical. However, his post at day start about Olimar looking like a special (using some stuff from Discord which didn't even indicate to me that Olimar was special), means that he considered Olimar as a special, so I think that it's plausible he saved Olimar and then read him as a special and switched the wolfing based on that. (The fact that Brainy was human and kind of an easy lynch doesn't help his case.)
2. ThatHiddenCharacter
Still think this guy's super suspicious and he hasn't done anything to redeem himself since. I think this guy's a possible wolf partner for Toby since he was involved in Toby's suspicion of FA (the brutal stuff): it's possible they communicated beforehand. (That's a bit less likely giving the timing of the log, since they would only have had a few minutes, but it's possible!)
3. BlackDragonSlayer
If Toby's not a wolf BDS goes to the top, but for now he stays here. I think he's a possibility for wolfing Olimar since he said in Discord that he was "giving human points" to people who were suspicious of Olimar whereas I would instinctively do the opposite, but it's not that clear cut (for one thing, why would he say this at all as a wolf?). Another point against him is his lack of contribution to the lynch Day 1. On the other hand I think his frustration with people's accusations of him reads to me as genuine, and I also have a tendency to read BDS as a wolf too much anyway.
4. E.Gadd Industries
Probably the most suspicious inactive. The stuff that he has done has been pretty bandwagoney. I also think he's a good candidate for wolfing Olimar, since a bunch of people jumped on him for his vote on Olimar Day 1 and that could have given him the perception that the consensus view of Olimar's wolfiness was turning around.
5. FireArrow
What FA has posted has been logical and human enough, from my point of view, but he's been a lot less aggressive than I remember. He hasn't pushed his suspicion of me nearly as hard as I expected, for instance, or even questioned me that much (although he did in chat right before I posted this as it happens). Maybe he's worried about me flipping human? Also not a bad partner for Toby since he came down on Toby's side in the Toby/BDS thing. Still a human lean for me though: I've gotten the impression that he's busy with other stuff so that would explain everything, and I doubt he wolfs Olimar.
6. blueflower999
Don't remember much about what Blueflower's done this game, but this kind of activity is fairly typical if I remember correctly. He made a pretty decent point about the wolfing earlier as well which gives me a human lean.
7. Trasdegi
Still think Tras is human based on his early message to me but there's not a whole lot else to go on here. I'll reconsider when I see the message between Tras and Olimar that supposedly exists.
8. raeko
I find it extremely unlikely that a wolf would immediately get on Toby's case (someone who was extremely active and not a target of suspicion) after being absent for most of the first day. Also I've talked to her on Discord and got the impression she was human from that.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 04, 2018, 11:01:04 PM
I'm tempted to jump on the Toby bandwagon because I do find it more likely that he's a wolf than that the wolves somehow found out Olimar's role. However, I'll abstain for the time being to give Toby more time to defend himself.

Toby, do you propose a mechanism for the wolves to have learned Olimar's role, or do you think the wolves are trying to frame you with some kind of reverse-psychology business?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 11:33:55 PM
1. Toby
I think one of Toby or BDS is probably a wolf, and I'm definitely leaning towards it being Toby, mostly due to his weird accusation of raeko (which she's already gone into at length). Toby said some other stuff later in Discord:
Spoiler
[5:15 AM] Toby: @Greg raeko said they knew their role, forum last active times says she hadn’t looked at her PM, so my thought was someone on discord, her wolf bud pm’d her wanting to talk about game stuff and that’s how she knew her role
[close]
but it's strange that he didn't just say that to begin with.

I did?

Toby - Today at 12:47 AM
how
forum says your last active time was before role pm's were even sent out
unless someone told you your role over discord :thinking:

One thing I struggled to reconcile was the fact that Toby was the one who spearheaded the late lynch Day 1 which saved Olimar, making the wolfing from his perspective illogical. However, his post at day start about Olimar looking like a special (using some stuff from Discord which didn't even indicate to me that Olimar was special), means that he considered Olimar as a special,
His cardflip told us he was special, and it was an odd wolfing. I wasn't the only one to think of the possibility that the wolves might have somehow guessed Olimar as special:


raeko - Today at 9:48 PM
there was 24 hours where we were allowed to talk in between the lynch and when the kill happened
my guess is that he or another wolf found out oli was the PR within that time, or guessed it based on how he was talking
Greg - Today at 9:49 PM
hmmm
that's in the "possible but unlikely" category for me I think
well let me see if anything Olimar said gives an indication

even you did, and you, just like I did, went and looked to see if there was anything that Olimar said that seemed special like.

Here's my post bringing up what I found:
my post
This happened on discord:

Olimar12345 - Today at 9:15 PM
Raeko is right; discussion during the night only helps the wolves.
If there is a special human role, they can function independently.
It’s not worth shooting our selves in the foot.
Just to maybe help a special

This is the only reason I really see for someone to target Olimar - with the thought he could be special.

This happened 45mins before phase end though, so it would be a bit of a quick change that I don't see one wolf making on his own.

Below is the a list of members last active times:

Greg: Today at 15:50:31
Bds: Today at 20:09:24
firearrow: Today at 21:43:49
Blue: Today at 18:14:47
Thc: Today at 18:36:28
E. gadd: Today at 16:16:15
Tras: Today at 22:09:33
Raeko: April 30, 2018, 22:27:59

The only thing to add onto this, is when searching I noticed THC was online on discord, but his last active time was about 6 hours ago for the forum.

If we are to believe at least 2 wolves communicated and changed the wolfing based on this discord post, that would leave:
THC
FireArrow
Trasdegi
[close]

See in bold that I say that's the only reason I found - that quote. I know it's weak, which is kind of why i said 'only', while yes it was the sole thing that I could see that might indicate Olimar as being a special, I didn't say 'i think this is the reason why wolves may have thought olimar was special'. Also, if you understand more of the context of where that quote came from you might understand better, I failed to provide it so my bad I guess. But, Raeko had been saying at that time that we shouldn't need to discuss our suspicions at all during the night phase, as it might aid the wolves. Sometime afterwards Olimar drops this:

Olimar12345 - Today at 9:15 PM
Raeko is right; discussion during the night only helps the wolves.
If there is a special human role, they can function independently.
It’s not worth shooting our selves in the foot.
Just to maybe help a special

There was no mention of specials not needing co-ordination previously in the chat, this was something Olimar brought up on his own. And he seems to show off a confident viewpoint that specials can do their role by themselves. As said previously, it was weak, but it was the only thing I could think of to indicate the wolves somehow finding out, and the wolfing was really odd, so I wanted to believe it, which is why I followed up on it.

so I think that it's plausible he saved Olimar and then read him as a special and switched the wolfing based on that. (The fact that Brainy was human and kind of an easy lynch doesn't help his case.)
So I do this, then I bring up the chat log that I read Olimar special for, to the whole topic. Then I judge that if that was the reason someone found out Olimar was special, they must have changed their wolfing after the post. So I bring up last active times, and bring up a final list of 3 people (4 if you want to include me because I was online then too) that must be the wolves to have switched the wolfing, and say that I think there is a wolf pairing within that. That's me telling the topic that out of 4 people (including me) 50% of those are a wolf.

I just don't really understand this logic.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 04, 2018, 11:44:04 PM
I mean, I went and looked, but not only was this long after the fact, but I also didn't find anything that would indicate Olimar being a special (like I said, I didn't read the thing you posted as Olimar being a special). If anything, I thought it ought to point to raeko as being a special, rather than Olimar. Your post was very soon after the end of the phase, which makes it more plausible that you thought of it before phase end!

I'll also grant you that you posted this logic publicly, but you didn't actually put your name in the list you posted. That might be innocent but it also might not be!
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 04, 2018, 11:48:16 PM
I'm tempted to jump on the Toby bandwagon because I do find it more likely that he's a wolf than that the wolves somehow found out Olimar's role. However, I'll abstain for the time being to give Toby more time to defend himself.
what. just because you find it so unlikely that the wolves guessed olimar was a special, doesn't mean you can just vote me because other's did.

Toby, do you propose a mechanism for the wolves to have learned Olimar's role, or do you think the wolves are trying to frame you with some kind of reverse-psychology business?
If you're suggesting Olimar was wolfed to frame me, I disagree? It wouldn't seem logical. Half the game wants him dead, and he was second favoured for the lynch yesterday, and only second because I saved him. Olimar agreed with my viewpoints on BDS when no one else did. Wolfing Olimar means that I lose a top lynch candidate to soak up all the votes, I lose someone who agrees with me on a lot of points, and means I'm solo opposing BDS. It does not make sense for me as a wolf to go for Olimar, or for a wolf to kill of Olimar to frame me.

I put forward my points and suspicions towards BDS and Raeko almost immediately. Following that, they both have decided to go against me. What I'm seeing here seems like the starting of a bandwagon, particularly from you now (i presume from your post here that you want to go against me just because you see a majority is). I believe Greg's suspicion now towards me is due to conflicting(?)/unclear info. I believe the wolves are Raeko and BDS, and if I'm right, and you have to think of this possibility no matter your stance, then you can't just agree with their viewpoint, just because they're two people against one.

Some of the points Raeko has put across, she has ignored time frames (may be intentional or not) and that is solidifying some of her points. I already cleared this up in a previous post. And because she is excessively going against me, and for some reason has BDS backing up her every point, I'm looking bad really quick.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 05, 2018, 12:38:05 AM
Interesting how you vote before Raeko when you’ve contributed very little to “Toby v Raeko”. Also since your last viewpoint on it was this (on phone so can’t give proper log but you can search it in chat for your own reference until I post it properly earlier):

BlackDragonSlayer Today at 2:19am
Toby is acting so obviously suspicious, but at the same time I can't help but wonder if he has a point about you not logging on until after role PMs were sent out.
Then again, he could easily be lying.

It seems like you were still thinking about it, and unless you have a sure judgement it doesn’t seem reasonable to vote before Raeko, who is presenting everything against me.

You also add in the point where I could be lying. Me lying about a hard fact anyone can check is silly, but nowhere you suggest that Raeko can be the one lying, instead you suggest this:

BlackDraonSlayer Today at 2:21am
It's completely natural to doubt yourself.

Just seems like a bit of a contrast to how you’re approaching the different sides of Toby v Raeko.



Also seems like you like being suspicious of being opposing you, see olimar
excuse me

what
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 05, 2018, 12:55:26 AM
Also seems like you like being suspicious of people opposing you, see olimar

fixed typo
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 05, 2018, 03:21:30 AM
Tras

i want log
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 05, 2018, 08:33:58 AM
Let's go. Basically, the game is split in half which is really good for us. It'll be extremely easy for us to round up the wolf team after this phase based on the card flip and I'm fairly certain which side to look into:

1. BDS See my first post this phase, compounded with the fact that Raeko shows up and you ride her coat tails while contributing nothing? Like, you were obviously there in the discord, but you only popped in to defend yourself then leave. To me, this looks like a disgustingly obvious wolf/human interaction where the human defends a wolf. You never voted yesterday, honest mistake or not, then today you add nothing to the table other than defending yourself while calling the person whose been suspicious of you all game a wolf. And when most of the calling them a wolf was done by someone else... yeah no. Also, you have a ton of potential wolf parters, including my other top suspicions greg and tras. Also also, your suposded wolf team you proposed was just everyone that disagrees with you. Much human, such wolf hunting.

2. Tras.
I feel kind of icky meta reading, but it just feels so painfully obvious to me. Also...

Tras


i want log

3. Greg
I didn't like your day one play... at all. I think I've explained myself well enough. Day two... a lot better, but it's all directed at the easiest person for you to do it to. The only real assertive claim in your list is against Toby, who already has two players ganging on him pretty hard. I can easily see your improved play a meta change in response to my day 1 vote on you, because it was all done in the lowest risk way. Also, you make really good partners with BDS the more I think about it. You guys have very little public interaction or private communication, and you went from not being very suspicious of Toby to having him be your number 1 when BDS was the other possible candidate. You're only below Tras because of this mysterious log.

4. E Gadd.
Like greg said, the most suspicious inactive. There's not much to say other than you make great partners with BDS, and everything you've done is very bandwagony and... weird. Choosing to be active through only PMs? I'm not 100% gungho on killing you like the 3 above me just because this reminds me of the 100th game, where you were a weird, suspicious inactive human before randomly coming in as a clutch confirmed human at the end, so pls do that this game.

5. Toby
I think you're getting a bit misrepped here. I don't think raeko realizes that how you're playing here is pretty normal for human Toby. Also, you don't have too many compatible partners unlike the people above you on the list. Problem is we don't know what wolf Toby is like so meta isn't gonna get you very far, and raeko does have a good point that it looks like you were PR hunting, which if the tras log doesn't turn up anything, is the next best explanation for Olimars death. If BDS is green and if Tras is green/the log isn't incrimianting, you just up to the top.

6. Blueflower
I mean, you seem to be your normal, group-chat-hating self. I want to say you're human, but I've seen so little from you I'm uncomfortable making any hard claims.

7. ThatHiddenCharacter
Because I'm leaning on Toby being the human out of him and BDS, you seem pretty human to me. Everything you've done is perfectly explaing by humam THC trying to improve. Only thing against you is this:

Quote
Toby - Today at 4:20 PM
im just going to vote for Tras because until I see log i'm not changing it
and maybe he will see that and be scared :<
@ThatHiddenCharacter what do u think of tras
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 4:22 PM
I had thoughts on Tras, but I'm a bit too busy to write it all out right now

Which to me looks like a wolf toby helping out a wolf THC. But I don't want to read to much into it unless BDS flips green.

9. raeko
You can kill me for saying this, but the angle shooting does have some value and was something I wanted to pursue investigating. Unfortunately, noc told us not to, and otherwise you seem extremely human to me. Your posts are well thought out and make sense, and I don't see why as a wolf the first thing you'd want to do is go after the most intimidating player of the game after being gone so long. Only thing I can hold against you is it seems like you're tunnel visioning on Toby right now, but I sure has hell have been guilty of that before (sorry dudeman :c.)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: raeko on May 05, 2018, 08:47:41 AM
9. raeko
You can kill me for saying this, but the angle shooting does have some value and was something I wanted to pursue investigating. Unfortunately, noc told us not to, and otherwise you seem extremely human to me. Your posts are well thought out and make sense, and I don't see why as a wolf the first thing you'd want to do is go after the most intimidating player of the game after being gone so long. Only thing I can hold against you is it seems like you're tunnel visioning on Toby right now, but I sure has hell have been guilty of that before (sorry dudeman :c.)

angle shooting does not deserve any value. I probably won't sign up for any games on NSM after this one because of this angle shooting nonsense not being banned tbh
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 05, 2018, 10:21:47 AM
awww but I'm enjoying playing with you. If it's of any reassurance angle shooting almost never happens in NSM because everyone except Toby is too lazy to actually look at things like that.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 05, 2018, 07:40:43 PM
BDS. For reasons I've already extensively covered.

Phase is ending soon and Tras deserves to be able to speak, though it's really disappointing he's just disappeared.


Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 05, 2018, 08:34:28 PM
vote count:

toby 2 (bds, greg)
bds 2 (toby, firearrow)

1 hour 27mins left till day ends
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 05, 2018, 09:36:46 PM
The phase has been extended by 6 hours and will end at 10:00 PM CST.  Additionally, Trasdegi has been issued a warning for inactivity.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on May 05, 2018, 09:37:33 PM
Alright. I know it’s technically the day after I said, but I was doing a lockout with my youth group, and by the time I actually had time to do this, I was way too tired to analyze much of anything.

So here’s the analysis post (as per usual, I’ll be analyzing everyone):
2. BlackDragonSlayer
Overall human read. I still don’t understand the point of the whole Toby reaction test with him, and the argument with Olimar appears justified from a human standpoint (Olimar was fairly jumpy). Not much else to be said, I feel. If anyone wants me to address further, ask specific questions & I’ll address them. (This applies to all analyses)

3. Trasdegi
Very uncertain here. Leaning wolf. The big thing for me is that he seems to have rushed the last minute. Otherwise, I’m not exactly sure where all the suspicions is coming from outside meta reading. I’m really wary about the log rn. Honestly, I’m more inclined to believe the log either didn’t happen & was fabricated entirely, or it was altered to have that bit thrown in there. What strikes me as off is the level of apparent nonchalance in that log Toby posted. For being this early on in the game, both of them are being pretty trusting of each other despite their skill level.

4. ThatHiddenCharacter
Human read. You seem to have legitimate interests for the human cause in mind. (And you haven’t gone nuts like in previous games, so kudos for that!) Uhhhh... nothing else really to be said, if at least at the moment.

6. Toby
Wolf read. Since the beginning of the game, I was very inclined to believe that you were human. But the petty attack on BDS (and of all things, over times of waking up and being there for phase change??) AND the angleshooting involved around Raeko are hecka sketch to me. Seriously, are you really trying to hold people to your insanely high standards of playing and then passing it off as a reaction test? That seems a bit much for a reaction test, especially given that you REPEATEDLY asked BDS the same or similar questions, as if you were expecting him to give a different answer after the eighth time. Look, I know that I haven’t played much with you before, but this seems a bit much for anyone with legitimate interest in the human cause. Like you’re trying too hard. But because I don’t know how a human Toby really is, I’m holding off on voting for you. If BDS dies this phase and flips green, however, your name will be bold in my posts when D3 arrives.

7. blueflower999
Idk. I can’t get much of a read on you, but this is in part due to Discord. But that’s okay. I’m going to go back through and read your posts again, and hopefully develop my read on you.

8. Greg
Questionable human read. You showed initiative early on by interviewing people on the Olimar/BDS thing, and posted with a good analysis (even if I don’t necessarily agree with all of it). The part of the post that I’m referring to disagreeing with is the change from believing Olimar was a wolf to not based on how everyone was thinking he was. I’m not saying it’s suspicious, but I do want to hear your insight on this, because I don’t understand. Your posts in the beginning did seem a bit uncertain, but personally, I attribute that to rustiness. In addition, your mild suspicion of me is due in part to inactivity, which as I’ve learned from previous games, isn’t always a valid reason to suspect someone as wolfy.

9. raeko
Human lean. I am terribly sorry about all the angleshooting play here. It’s not cool. :/ Your sus post on Toby was really insightful, and it may end up winning the game for humans. Toby seems to be aggressive & driven enough that he could very well have escaped everyone’s suspicions through sheer presence and “reaction testing” alone. Hopefully you stay despite being a victim of Toby’s... dedication?

10. FireArrow
Human lean. Despite the fact that I disagree with your stances, you haven’t given me much reason to believe you’re a wolf. The biggest thing, I suppose, would be Toby’s log where you appear to assume that the wolf special is brutal, even when it could just as easily be a wolf roleblocker. But I believe this isn’t as important at the moment as the two big factions forming between BDS & Toby.

11. E.Gadd Industries
It’s me. Concerning the suspicions on me, I’m seeing two main points: inactivity and bandwagon. Yes, I admit: my activity has been... less than satisfactory since the beginning of the game, but life got crazy, and AP testing starts next week. My focus has been finishing up on my Staristics work, not TWG. Hopefully when testing actually starts, my amount of free time will go up, as I won’t be preparing for them as extensively. With bandwagoning, the only thing that comes to my mind is my stances on Olimar, pre-D2. (If there’s anything else, tell me.) But in my mind, Greg did the explaining for me in posting our log as to why I thought Olimar was suspicious, and I was running on limited time at that moment anyway, so I had to just make a quick post. Coupled with forgetting about the absence of phantom votes, that’s what led to my D1 vote. Feel free to ask me about anything else.


Tl;dr
Below is a list of players in order from most suspicious on top to least suspicious on the bottom.
Toby
Tras
Greg
Blue
THC
FireArrow
Raeko
BDS


Another issue is why Olimar of all people was wolfed. One possibility that I haven’t seen mentioned yet is that perhaps the wolves wanted to frame BDS for Olimar’s death. Think about it: the tensions between Toby & BDS didn’t break out until after Olimar died, so the BDS/Olimar argument was still fresh in everyone’s minds. As such, it would make sense to wolf one and frame the other. This would’ve given the wolves plenty of leverage to attack the survivor. Toby just took it a step further & decided to argue with BDS about waking up to see the phase change.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Trasdegi on May 05, 2018, 09:45:32 PM
Sorry for the inactivity, but I'm back!

Tras

i want log

About this: what was your plan? Faking a log with Olimar to see if I would fake a log with Olimar, and then you would say "nope i faked this log, so Tras is a wolf"? That isn't working. I don't have any logs with Olimar. And only reason you would do this is to make sure to get an easy mislynch today as a wolf. So Toby.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 05, 2018, 09:56:57 PM

Toby - Today at 8:41 PM
ok thc
i have deducted that if you and tras are wolves, I really don't think you two are partners
and i have a confession
there is no tras log
i faked the end of that log between me and olimar
but I figured if Olimar claimed to anyone it was Tras
so I wanted to see what happened
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:43 PM
Oh, Toby, this not good
Toby - Today at 8:43 PM
i mean not really
you need to keep it a secret until Tras comes back though
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:44 PM
I won't tell anyone, but seriously man, it'll just make you look more suspicious
Toby - Today at 8:44 PM
but it's important that someone else knows so I don't look super weird
i mean i'm trying to hunt down the wolf that caught olimar
i dont think that's suspicious
I'm not trying to frame tras
which is why it's important i let someone else knw
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:45 PM
I can tell this isn't going to end well
Toby - Today at 8:45 PM
lool
its taking so long so its getting awkard
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:46 PM
Tras is often offline
Toby - Today at 8:46 PM
yeah but not for an entire day phase
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:46 PM
You'd be surpirsed
He was only so active last game because he was the single wolf
Toby - Today at 8:46 PM
why bother play twg if this is something he does often
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:47 PM
I ask that all the time
Why do they let him play if he does this all the time is the real question
Toby - Today at 8:52 PM
well nsm struggles enough for players
lol
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 8:52 PM
I guess, yeah
Toby - Today at 9:00 PM
you're gonna be here for phase end (1 hour) right
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 9:00 PM
Hopefully
Did you see Tras' post?
Toby - Today at 9:55 PM
no
im playing overwatch hang on
game almost over
oh lol nice
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: ThatHiddenCharacter on May 06, 2018, 12:42:17 AM
BDS for the reasons I gave on Discord. And for those who aren't there or didn't read it, here's a summary of what I was saying.

ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 4:25 PM
If BDS flips green, then Toby is my first choice. His attack on BDS was pretty strong, but BDS just seems worse to me. About BDS --> He doesn't seem to have actually contributed. It seems more like he has a lack of contribution disguised as contribution by saying things that have already been said and jumping on bandwagons.

Also

ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 4:31 PM
Under the circumstances, FA. He seems to have been a bit more absent than usual, but he also appears to be genuinely trying to hunt wolves. And I've just seen a general lack of BS from him this game, unlike a good portion of the players this game.
raeko - Today at 4:32 PM
what type of BS are you referring to there
ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 4:32 PM
The whole Oli/BDS and Toby/BDS exchanges
Neither of those should even have happened, they were so petty

(Note how both petty arguments involved BDS.)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: E. Gadd Industries on May 06, 2018, 01:07:19 AM
Toby for reasons stated above.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 06, 2018, 01:13:39 AM
Alright, I'm switching to BDS. Hope this is the right decision...
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 06, 2018, 01:16:02 AM
Votecount
Toby: 3 (BlackDragonSlayer, Trasdegi, E. Gadd Industries)
BlackDragonSlayer: 4 (Toby, FireArrow, Greg, ThatHiddenCharacter)
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 06, 2018, 01:18:15 AM
While Toby is slightly suspect, I’m not sure he’s our best lynch target. Tras, on the other hand, is acting very similarly to how he did in the Sombra game by sort of flying under the radar.

Raeko seems genuinely human to me, sort of unfortunate she wasn’t around much Day 1.

I’m comfortable with a BDS lynch. He hasn’t done nearly as good of a job defending himself that I’ve seen in previous games imo. I’ll try to make a more detailed post later but I’m a bit tied up atm. Apologies in advance but I at least wanted to get a vote down. Feel free to message me on Discord if you wanna chat
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 06, 2018, 01:19:49 AM
IIIIIIIIIIIINSTA!

rip phase extension
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 06, 2018, 01:22:46 AM
TWG CV (Off the Grid I):  Roll of the Dice


THE GRID |Roll 1Roll 2Roll 3
Roll 4One-shot VigilanteBrutal WolfVanilla Human
Roll 5Human Odd-Night SeerVanilla HumanVanilla Wolf
Roll 6Wolf RoleblockerHuman GuardianVanilla Human

3 Wolves
8 Humans

At the beginning of the game, a 6-sided die is rolled.  The number rolled will determine how the setup is filled; a roll of 2 would produce the following setup:

1 Brutal Wolf
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans

Whereas a roll of 6 would produce the following setup:

1 Wolf Roleblocker
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans


There will always be 3 wolf-aligned roles and 8 human-aligned roles.  They are merely replaced by the roles in the grid.

Players:
1. Olimar12345
2. BlackDragonSlayer
3. Trasdegi
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. BrainyLucario
6. Toby
7. blueflower999
8. Greg
9. raeko
10. FireArrow
11. E.Gadd Industries

BlackDragonSlayer was insta'd!  He was a Vanilla Human.  It is now Night 2.  Might 2 ends roughly 20 hours and 40 minutes from this post, at 4:00 PM CST on May 6.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 06, 2018, 01:23:22 AM
Shoot I tried to get a vote down during an intermission and didn’t check the tallies (and got ninja’d by Greg changing votes). My fault guys.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 06, 2018, 10:00:42 PM
TWG CV (Off the Grid I):  Roll of the Dice


THE GRID |Roll 1Roll 2Roll 3
Roll 4One-shot VigilanteBrutal WolfVanilla Human
Roll 5Human Odd-Night SeerVanilla HumanVanilla Wolf
Roll 6Wolf RoleblockerHuman GuardianVanilla Human

3 Wolves
8 Humans

At the beginning of the game, a 6-sided die is rolled.  The number rolled will determine how the setup is filled; a roll of 2 would produce the following setup:

1 Brutal Wolf
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans

Whereas a roll of 6 would produce the following setup:

1 Wolf Roleblocker
2 Vanilla Wolves

1 Human Guardian
7 Vanilla Humans


There will always be 3 wolf-aligned roles and 8 human-aligned roles.  They are merely replaced by the roles in the grid.

Players:
1. Olimar12345
2. BlackDragonSlayer
3. Trasdegi
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. BrainyLucario
6. Toby
7. blueflower999
8. Greg
9. raeko
10. FireArrow
11. E.Gadd Industries

Raeko was murdered!  She was a Vanilla Human.  It is now Day 3.  Day 3 ends 48 hours from this post, at 4:00 PM CST on Tuesday, May 8.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 06, 2018, 10:19:22 PM
this game is so weird
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 06, 2018, 10:21:24 PM
wolves are clearly set on framing people

wolf olimar to frame bds,
wolf raeko to frame me

I've not seen such obvious framing wolfings before. This isn't typical wolf play where they wolf the most human looking so they can hide better.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 06, 2018, 11:04:19 PM
Here's some stats on game votes:

All votes from living players (also linked):

Trasdegi
Day 1: Olimar (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398561#msg398561), Brainy (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398569#msg398569)
Day 2: Toby (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398670#msg398670)

ThatHiddenCharacter
Day 1: no vote
Day 2: BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398672#msg398672)

Toby
Day 1: Brainy (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398566#msg398566)
Day 2: Trasdegi (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398658#msg398658), BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398663#msg398663)

blueflower999
Day 1: Olimar (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398529#msg398529)
Day 2: BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398676#msg398676)

Greg
Day 1: THC (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398527#msg398527), Brainy (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398567#msg398567)
Day 2: Toby (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398649#msg398649), BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398674#msg398674)

FireArrow
Day 1: Greg (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398525#msg398525)
Day 2: BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398660#msg398660)

E.Gadd Industries
Day 1: Olimar (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398550#msg398550)
Day 2: Toby (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398673#msg398673)
[close]

Players and who they have not voted for:
Trasdegi:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

ThatHiddenCharacter:
Trasdegi, Toby, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Toby:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

blueflower999:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Greg:
Trasdegi, blueflower999, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

FireArrow:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, blueflower999, E.Gadd Industries

E.Gadd Industries:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow
[close]

Player's and who they have been voted by
Trasdegi:
Toby

ThatHiddenCharacter:
Greg

Toby:
Trasdegi, Greg, E. Gadd


blueflower999:
no one

Greg:
FireArrow

FireArrow:
no one

E.Gadd Industries:
no one
[close]

Players who have not voted each other

Trasdegi:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

ThatHiddenCharacter:
Trasdegi, Toby, blueflower999, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Toby:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, FireArrow

blueflower999:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Greg:
Trasdegi, blueflower999, E.Gadd Industries

FireArrow:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, blueflower999, E.Gadd Industries

E.Gadd Industries:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow
[close]

Some initial notes:
-THC was the only player to make no vote Day 1
-Toby and Trasdegi are the only player's to have voted each other (and are still living)
-Greg has made the most votes (4), none of which have been safeties, placeholders, or admitted pressure votes
-THC has made the least votes (1)
-Trasdegi, THC, blueflower and Olimar all have only voted for the top wagons each day, Trasdegi is the only one to have voted more than once on a given day out of them.
-Toby and Greg are the only players who have had their vote on the winning lynch each day.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 07, 2018, 12:40:09 AM
Interesting statistics, but what conclusions are you proposing from them?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 07, 2018, 12:56:13 AM
Sorry I've been a bit quiet today I've got an exam on Tuesday I've been trying to study for.

I wanted to see if it helped me draw any strong relationships between players, but voting in general this game has been pretty inactive and not many votes have been flying around to draw a strong conclusion on that.

I do feel like yourself (blueflower) and Trasdegi have been very weak with your votes. I do feel like your reasoning was piggy backing on everyone else's. For you in particular, it seemed like you just wanted to vote any wagon with participating little to it.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 07, 2018, 01:14:03 AM
wolves are clearly set on framing people

wolf olimar to frame bds,
wolf raeko to frame me

I've not seen such obvious framing wolfings before. This isn't typical wolf play where they wolf the most human looking so they can hide better

Excuse me, what? Raeko was the single most human read player in the game, how is it not a typical wolfing? And you were so certain that the Olimar wolfing was because he was a special, but now that you're the most likely person to of known he was a special, the narrative suddenly changes to "all these wolfings are because of framings!"

Here's some stats on game votes:

All votes from living players (also linked):

Trasdegi
Day 1: Olimar (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398561#msg398561), Brainy (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398569#msg398569)
Day 2: Toby (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398670#msg398670)

ThatHiddenCharacter
Day 1: no vote
Day 2: BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398672#msg398672)

Toby
Day 1: Brainy (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398566#msg398566)
Day 2: Trasdegi (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398658#msg398658), BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398663#msg398663)

blueflower999
Day 1: Olimar (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398529#msg398529)
Day 2: BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398676#msg398676)

Greg
Day 1: THC (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398527#msg398527), Brainy (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398567#msg398567)
Day 2: Toby (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398649#msg398649), BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398674#msg398674)

FireArrow
Day 1: Greg (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398525#msg398525)
Day 2: BDS (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398660#msg398660)

E.Gadd Industries
Day 1: Olimar (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398550#msg398550)
Day 2: Toby (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398673#msg398673)
[close]

Players and who they have not voted for:
Trasdegi:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

ThatHiddenCharacter:
Trasdegi, Toby, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Toby:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

blueflower999:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Greg:
Trasdegi, blueflower999, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

FireArrow:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, blueflower999, E.Gadd Industries

E.Gadd Industries:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow
[close]

Player's and who they have been voted by
Trasdegi:
Toby

ThatHiddenCharacter:
Greg

Toby:
Trasdegi, Greg, E. Gadd


blueflower999:
no one

Greg:
FireArrow

FireArrow:
no one

E.Gadd Industries:
no one
[close]

Players who have not voted each other

Trasdegi:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

ThatHiddenCharacter:
Trasdegi, Toby, blueflower999, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Toby:
ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, FireArrow

blueflower999:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, Greg, FireArrow, E.Gadd Industries

Greg:
Trasdegi, blueflower999, E.Gadd Industries

FireArrow:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, Toby, blueflower999, E.Gadd Industries

E.Gadd Industries:
Trasdegi, ThatHiddenCharacter, blueflower999, Greg, FireArrow
[close]

Some initial notes:
-THC was the only player to make no vote Day 1
-Toby and Trasdegi are the only player's to have voted each other (and are still living)
-Greg has made the most votes (4), none of which have been safeties, placeholders, or admitted pressure votes
-THC has made the least votes (1)
-Trasdegi, THC, blueflower and Olimar all have only voted for the top wagons each day, Trasdegi is the only one to have voted more than once on a given day out of them.
-Toby and Greg are the only players who have had their vote on the winning lynch each day.

Is this a really convoluted way of saying you don't have a lot of viable wolf partners, because the only "useful" information out of this is that everyone has a sizeable pool of potential partners besides you, granted you still have more than enough to form a wolf team.

I know you adressed most of these in the discord at some point, but I'd like you to do so in the thread now:
-Given everything that's happened, who do you think are the wolves?
-Convince me that you PR hunting is not the best explanation for Olimar's n1 wolfing.
-Give me an explanation for all the crazy shit you've been doing that's lead nowhere, because a lot of it looks like you trying to force lynches on players for dumb reasons. This includes: Angleshooting raeko (oh look she was human), asking BDS a series of pointless questions (sadly he took the bait and you got him), and the tras log (something you immediately stopped pursuing once BDS lynch was looking up.) They look less like you trying to find a wolf and more like you trying to pin random shit on people to get them lynched.
-THC's father-son relationship with you into what looked like a scripted "oh how could toby of tricked us all" when BDS flipped green.
-The posts I'm responding to right now, which looks like you trying to show your humanity under the guise of wolf hunting.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 07, 2018, 01:48:59 AM
Blueflower (and anyone else who wants to chime in) what do you think about THC's reaction to the BDS human flip? Throughout the game he's been thinking I am human, but on the flip he suddenly changes. I understand the weird 'if it's not BDS, it's Toby' mentality, but it seems so extra and 'fake' how he is reacting i.e 'toby tricked me' stuff.

THC reacting to bds flip
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:23 AM
Oh, god damn

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:23 AM
yeah no you still are
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:23 AM
._.
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:23 AM
imma go study and think about this for a bit
but toby >:cccc
also thc >:cccc
Greg - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
FUCK
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
I thought BDS was a wolf...

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
I did too
I mean
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
But apparently it's Toby

this just seems like a very confident statement. Again understand if not bds then toby mentality, but thc favoured me this entire game and he jumps ship so quick, and quite seemingly confident
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
The card flips realls helps though
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
I can't believe I fell for his trick

fake
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
He's a good player
Greg - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
watch toby also be human
that would be the real long con
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
Don't feel too bad, just learn from this game
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
He must've claimed the fake log to me because he knows I'm very gullible

whether you were human or not didn't matter, i thought i explained this to you. also fake/extra
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:25 AM
or you're his wolf partner ;]
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:25 AM
Well yeah, who else would I be?

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:26 AM
THC + Toby mentor relationship makes a lot of sense given everything that's happened
at the same time
Toby + trying to pocket THC also makes sense and with how he's playing it's definitely possible
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:26 AM
What does that second one mean?

Greg - Yesterday at 1:27 AM
you guys think blueflower might be a wolf with toby
Mikey - Yesterday at 1:27 AM
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Pocketing
Pocketing
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:27 AM
Ah

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:27 AM
It's definitely the side of the table he falls onto
but
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:27 AM
With the last minute insta, it’s possible.
Ninja’d
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:28 AM
I don't think he'd go so far as to insta when they would of had the lynch anyways
Greg - Yesterday at 1:28 AM
that's true I guess
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:28 AM
Well, it also looks like he didn't know it was an insta so w/e
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:28 AM
Unless he's a wolf, but legitimately didn't realize it was an insta
Ninja'd

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:28 AM
yeee
I wish there was more from blueflower
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:29 AM
I wish he was in the discord
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:29 AM
That would help

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:29 AM
Remind me why he refuses to join any?
Or has he even stated a reason?
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:29 AM
Paranoia?

I still think Tras is a wolf, btw
Greg - Yesterday at 1:30 AM
you think tras and toby are wolf partners?
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:30 AM
Possibly
Tras has only ever been this active as a wolf

this gets a different colour because it's something else. Tras isn't active like holy moly, he disappeared for the entire day phase minus 15 mins. Trying to cast fake shade onto Tras??
Greg - Yesterday at 1:30 AM
what
he skipped all of day 2
relevant
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:30 AM
I mean, Blue doesn’t want to join any Discord servers. So it wouldn’t necessarily be fear of being discovered
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
He normally misses the entire game for the part. I think.
*the most part

I don't think he did in sombra? If you look at all his posts in that game: http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3606;area=showposts;start=0 (his posts are the most recent 19 from the game) He is generally active every day, he does miss a few days but it's towards the end after getting called out as so active, and he's usually only gone for like 30 hours, as opposed to being gone for almost 42 hours last day phase this game. I think 'tras being active' is a very very very weak fake point on Tras.
Greg - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
eesh
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
I meant Paranoia in general

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
His activity is definitely sparse in those games
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
Not TWG related

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
Ohhhhhh
That’s definitely possible.
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
Tras and toby are not likely partners
because of the whole log thing
I guess because Toby didn't pull the trigger, it could of been a distancing scheme
but at the same time, he couldn't of pulled the trigger because he told you
Greg - Yesterday at 1:32 AM
wait
oh
uh
so the thing that ultimately made me switch my vote was that it seemed like toby could have screwed trasdegi and didn't
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:33 AM
So if tras is human, the means you're human
Greg - Yesterday at 1:33 AM
but if they're both wolves...
ehh
unlikely but possible
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:33 AM
Don't rule it out
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:34 AM
So most likely, Toby's human that made bad play/Tras is human that fell into the wrong place, wrong time, but it's also a possible distancing scheme. Am I getting that right?
Cause that sounds confusing

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:35 AM
Wait, when was Toby corroborated?
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:36 AM
?

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:36 AM
“Toby’s human that made bad play”
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:36 AM
If he's human he made a lot of bad plays
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:36 AM
That's what I meant

E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 1:36 AM
Oh
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:36 AM
Also
Blueflower - Tras, on the other hand, is acting very similarly to how he did in the Sombra game by sort of flying under the radar.

Um, no? He wasn't under the radar during Sombra. If anything, he was making little ping-y noises more than he's ever done.

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:38 AM
blueflower confirms he didn't know it was an insta
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:38 AM
Unless that's a lie. DUN-DUN

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:38 AM
If he's a wolf I don't know what he'd get out of an insta
but very spooky indeed
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:39 AM
Anyway, I still think that statement about Tras is pretty suspicious since it's just not true
It was his most active game to date
So unless blue doesn't know what he's talking about at all, that's just strange
I wish raeko would show up and tell us what she thinks
And if I remember correctly, we have 0 extra lives, and the only 1-up isn't easy to get

Greg - Yesterday at 1:44 AM
@raeko
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:44 AM
Pinging won't work, I did that earlier

Greg - Yesterday at 1:44 AM
oh well
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:46 AM
We probably shouldn't discuss too much during the night phase, though
Don't want wolves getting any wolfing ideas from our discussions
Gonna be honest, though, while I'm mad at Toby for tricking me, I'm still a bit pissed at BDS's lack of... good plays this game. He didn't actually give good reasoning for anything and was pretty much just jumping on bandwagons. Or was he starting them? I can't remember.

again adding in this fake 'toby tricked me' point
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:50 AM
I do agree with you there
raeko - Yesterday at 2:45 AM
well that's a stink....
sorry I wasn't around, I thought we had more time
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 2:45 AM
I don't blame ya

raeko - Yesterday at 2:47 AM
if i die don't let toby get away
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 2:49 AM
I won't
[close]

I bolded everything THC posted. Now, I admit, I have defended THC this game for his playstyle, because I thought perhaps he was just really looking to improve his playstyle and become a more active/helpful player. But actually reading into everything here I do think he's been very extra, but I still want other thoughts on it in case it's just me.

I put in red stuff relevant to my point

Stuff in blue is my own comments

Stuff in pink is on another subject about his thoughts on Trasdegi though I'm a bit confused and not sure if he is talking about blueflower's thoughts or his own so if he could clear that up that would be fab
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 07, 2018, 02:08:03 AM
Truthfully I thought BDS was acting really weird too and was also surprised by his flip. THC's reaction doesn't feel genuine to me, though. He seems overly accusatory and jumps to blame you pretty quickly.

That being said THC joined NSM when I was on hiatus so I'm not as used to his playstyle as some of you are.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 07, 2018, 02:35:46 AM
Excuse me, what? Raeko was the single most human read player in the game, how is it not a typical wolfing? And you were so certain that the Olimar wolfing was because he was a special, but now that you're the most likely person to of known he was a special, the narrative suddenly changes to "all these wolfings are because of framings!"

Is this a really convoluted way of saying you don't have a lot of viable wolf partners, because the only "useful" information out of this is that everyone has a sizeable pool of potential partners besides you, granted you still have more than enough to form a wolf team.

I know you adressed most of these in the discord at some point, but I'd like you to do so in the thread now:
-Given everything that's happened, who do you think are the wolves?
-Convince me that you PR hunting is not the best explanation for Olimar's n1 wolfing.
-Give me an explanation for all the crazy shit you've been doing that's lead nowhere, because a lot of it looks like you trying to force lynches on players for dumb reasons. This includes: Angleshooting raeko (oh look she was human), asking BDS a series of pointless questions (sadly he took the bait and you got him), and the tras log (something you immediately stopped pursuing once BDS lynch was looking up.) They look less like you trying to find a wolf and more like you trying to pin random shit on people to get them lynched.
-THC's father-son relationship with you into what looked like a scripted "oh how could toby of tricked us all" when BDS flipped green.
-The posts I'm responding to right now, which looks like you trying to show your humanity under the guise of wolf hunting.

Ok i really don't have enough time right now unfortunately to respond to all of this in as much detail as I would like as it's almost 2am and I need to sleep so I'm not tired for my huge study session i'm doing tomorrow before my exam on Tuesday. But I'll try respond to what I can now:

Quote
Excuse me, what? Raeko was the single most human read player in the game, how is it not a typical wolfing?

Gerik "FireArrow" - Last Saturday at 1:25 AM
I think I'm looking at Greg + BDS + Tras or E Gadd rn
oh ez
add raeko tentatively too that list

Gerik - Last Friday at 1:39 AM
Can you not mention the raeko pm thing for awhile? I wanna get a chance to see who couldve been pming her if youre right
Toby - Last Friday at 1:39 AM
sure
Gerik - Last Friday at 1:39 AM
Ty bb
Toby - Last Friday at 1:39 AM
how do you plan on doing that
Gerik - Last Friday at 1:40 AM
See if anyone makes any slips and looks like theyve been im contact with her
We currently have 0 info because of mia and i dont like that
Toby - Last Friday at 1:43 AM
ok

I'm not going to look into everyone right now, but I don't think you were that keen on thinking Raeko was human, so I don't know why you're coming out with saying she was the most human looking player. Also I think people thought a Raeko/BDS partnership was likely (during day 2) and when majority of people voted BDS, i think that suggests that almost majority also didn't like Raeko. But also, my memories on people's opinion on Raeko are fainted, and I don't have time to do a complete look back on everyone, but I can do maybe tomorrow during a study break? I do guess it's possible with the BDS flip green people subconsciously also saw Raeko as more human, but there wasn't much discussion on that for everyone to believe she was most looked human.

Quote
And you were so certain that the Olimar wolfing was because he was a special, but now that you're the most likely person to of known he was a special, the narrative suddenly changes to "all these wolfings are because of framings!"

bruh what don't make me bring up more logs, but I wasn't the only person to think of this, and it wasn't even my first thought; it being some weird BDS plan was. Also how am I the most likely person to know he was special? I think most likely is Tras if you want to put labels on most/least likely for the whole [Olimar: "Tras knew I was human"], tras switched last minute day 1. Also I already said that after thinking about Tras's response I think wolves just got lucky with Olimar; so yes, I'm allowed to have another thought aren't I???

Quote
Is this a really convoluted way of saying you don't have a lot of viable wolf partners, because the only "useful" information out of this is that everyone has a sizeable pool of potential partners besides you, granted you still have more than enough to form a wolf team.

lol no, if that was my plan, you said it enough for me in discord. I wanted to know who people voted myself, and I was hoping it might draw a few connections with player's avoiding each other, but as I already said, I realised voting as a whole wasn't active enough to really draw such. But I think it makes blueflower look quite guilty for his weak reason bandwagon-ish votes.

Quote
-Given everything that's happened, who do you think are the wolves?
So I'm still trying to process through some things and dig deeper for some extra information. Right now I'm thinking THC, but as partners for him it would have to be yourself (Firearrow) and blueflower maybe??? (I need to look into THC partnerships more because his pool is really quite small and has conflict-ions which I'm not sure I'd give THC credit for as a wolf to fake conflict-ions). THC had been against Trasdegi and E. Gadd from the start. Bringing up lots of unnecessary (if they're wolf partners) suspicious looking points on them. See: they copied his reasoning on the bds/olimar interaction. see the copied reasoning here (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398520#msg398520) I don't have time to search for THC's own reasoning but I can probably try tomorrow or THC might be able to bring it up for you. Also Greg was pushing for THC's lynch very early and placed the second (?) vote of the game on him. So that's quite harsh distancing if they're buddies, but I Greg isnt someone to play so wrecklessly as a wolf.

In regards to any other possibilities;I'm really not sure and I want to re read everything which I can try do tomorrow. I want to look into everyone more because I can think of odd things everyone has done that makes me want to look into them more.

I'm wanting to look into you a bit more, and even Greg, I think both of you at times have seemed occasionally sheepish regarding certain scenarios. For greg it would be the raeko incident and for you it would be now, (although im not sure if the correct term is sheepish but i frankly have little time to think of a better word LOL). These aren't strong thoughts at all but I want to look into them more to get more details.

Trasdegi's log reaction I want to have another look at, but I'm thinking he's probably human for his playstyle as a whole and his activity levels are super common and he seems less energetic and excited about the game than how he did last game.

E. gadd i want to look into because he's been very quiet.

And I want to look at blueflower because his votes and lack of searching for other options than the main ones worry me.

so yeah everyone really I want to look at again in more detail. I focused a bit much on BDS/Raeko, thinking they were sure things so my thoughts on other players are lacking.

Quote
-Convince me that you PR hunting is not the best explanation for Olimar's n1 wolfing.
I think Olimar would have brought this up if I was PR hunting him? Plus I don't know why you think I would take such a risk to telling everyone the wolves must have been PR hunting if I was a wolf and that was genuinely what we were doing. I had no suspicion on me, I wouldn't need to take a risk like that to promote my humanity, I would have been free to coast the game questioning people here and there without pulling any risky stunts. I really can't get into this anymore atm cause time, but I'm pretty sure I've talked about this, or something similar regarding the same kind of topic before, so if you are able to find that and give it a re-read it would save me repeating myself :< (sorry no time maybe tomorrow, but now my non-study things to do are building up).

Quote
-Give me an explanation for all the crazy shit you've been doing that's lead nowhere, because a lot of it looks like you trying to force lynches on players for dumb reasons. This includes: Angleshooting raeko (oh look she was human), asking BDS a series of pointless questions (sadly he took the bait and you got him), and the tras log (something you immediately stopped pursuing once BDS lynch was looking up.) They look less like you trying to find a wolf and more like you trying to pin random shit on people to get them lynched./quote
Some things lead nowhere some things lead somewhere, not my fault if they don't get anywhere, but I've tried. Ok the thing with Raeko, you seemed to agree with my points on it, and i've explained it extensively in discord which I'm sure you've read so I think you should understand my views on it. I guess forum time can be wrong, but I didn't think so, and honestly this is the dumbest riskiest shit ever to pull as a wolf.
Man been over this, I wanted to put pressure on him. But I also wanted to know why he was having a seemingly lack of interest for the game. In his previous wolf games he seems to be quieter than usual, I wanted to pressure that thought. Plus, I've never known BDS to skip out on reading stuff and taking things into detail, so I thought it was odd where he claimed to be skipping, but maybe I'm mistaken on this point. Also bds literally done almost nothing for the good of humans this game, compared to what I've seen him do before, so I wanted to pressure him to see how interested and how much he cared for human cause. And look, the majority of the topic agree'd he was being weird as shit and likely wolf, don't kick me up the butt just because I said it.

The Tras log was a possibility at getting the most likely person Olimar could have claimed to, to panic freak out and show wolf. I had to drop it because why would I continue pushing it? The log I had was fake, I lied to everyone, but it was to try to catch a wolf and get a reaction from him. If I continued on with it I would only be seeing if I could get a lynch to stick or not, but that's not my intention, I wanted to get the reaction and I got it so I dropped it. As a wolf it would have been better to let it go on, and if no one bites it then I turn around and go 'lol it was all fake just for reactions lol' and have my wolf partner back me up saying 'yeah he told me it was fake'.

Quote
-THC's father-son relationship with you into what looked like a scripted "oh how could toby of tricked us all" when BDS flipped green.
i think my previous post explains this for you, anything else let me know

Quote
-The posts I'm responding to right now, which looks like you trying to show your humanity under the guise of wolf hunting.
see any game i play in to see I put effort into everything. Also if we had the chat logs from twg scrambled eggs you would see despite having a red check on me, as a human, I was still being extremely helpful in chat, doing reaction tests, referencing player's posts in order to try and find the wolves. Plus I already said in one of my previous posts that it wasn't as helpful as I was hoping it could be, however, it will still let everyone see peoples direct reasons for all the votes they made, and see who has just been following wagons or giving their own reasoning. Its also something to refer back to quickly if needed.


this post is a bit wishy washy because i typed it as quick as i can but i really need to study, I have 3 essays to make and memorise tomorrow :(
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 07, 2018, 02:36:38 AM
bum, i messed up a quote tag, but hopefully you can see my responses
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 07, 2018, 09:23:57 AM
I'm not going to look into everyone right now, but I don't think you were that keen on thinking Raeko was human, so I don't know why you're coming out with saying she was the most human looking player. Also I think people thought a Raeko/BDS partnership was likely (during day 2) and when majority of people voted BDS, i think that suggests that almost majority also didn't like Raeko. But also, my memories on people's opinion on Raeko are fainted, and I don't have time to do a complete look back on everyone, but I can do maybe tomorrow during a study break? I do guess it's possible with the BDS flip green people subconsciously also saw Raeko as more human, but there wasn't much discussion on that for everyone to believe she was most looked human.

Read the suspicion lists from yesterday, she was at the bottom of everybodies. I did think her being a wolf was a possibility if BDS was a wolf and the E Gadd or Tras lead didn't go anywhere.

Quote
bruh what don't make me bring up more logs, but I wasn't the only person to think of this, and it wasn't even my first thought; it being some weird BDS plan was. Also how am I the most likely person to know he was special? I think most likely is Tras if you want to put labels on most/least likely for the whole [Olimar: "Tras knew I was human"], tras switched last minute day 1. Also I already said that after thinking about Tras's response I think wolves just got lucky with Olimar; so yes, I'm allowed to have another thought aren't I???

At this point, you PR hunting is seeming a lot more likely to me than Olimar claiming to Tras.

Quote
lol no, if that was my plan, you said it enough for me in discord. I wanted to know who people voted myself, and I was hoping it might draw a few connections with player's avoiding each other, but as I already said, I realised voting as a whole wasn't active enough to really draw such. But I think it makes blueflower look quite guilty for his weak reason bandwagon-ish votes.

Point being you gave us an elaborate statistical analysis that yeilds very little. Still looks more like a ploy to look more human than one to actually find wolves.

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So I'm still trying to process through some things and dig deeper for some extra information. Right now I'm thinking THC, but as partners for him it would have to be yourself (Firearrow) and blueflower maybe??? (I need to look into THC partnerships more because his pool is really quite small and has conflict-ions which I'm not sure I'd give THC credit for as a wolf to fake conflict-ions). THC had been against Trasdegi and E. Gadd from the start. Bringing up lots of unnecessary (if they're wolf partners) suspicious looking points on them. See: they copied his reasoning on the bds/olimar interaction. see the copied reasoning here (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398520#msg398520) I don't have time to search for THC's own reasoning but I can probably try tomorrow or THC might be able to bring it up for you. Also Greg was pushing for THC's lynch very early and placed the second (?) vote of the game on him. So that's quite harsh distancing if they're buddies, but I Greg isnt someone to play so wrecklessly as a wolf.

THC is the lowest hanging fruit right now outside of yourself. Considering Greg's adamant suspicion of him throughout the entire game, it's probably also the easiest way for you to turn a lynch away from yourself. I'll give you THC is not the most human looking person right now, but it's mostly because he's such a perfect fit for being your partner.

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I'm wanting to look into you a bit more, and even Greg, I think both of you at times have seemed occasionally sheepish regarding certain scenarios. For greg it would be the raeko incident and for you it would be now, (although im not sure if the correct term is sheepish but i frankly have little time to think of a better word LOL). These aren't strong thoughts at all but I want to look into them more to get more details.

Yes, sheepish is a pretty bad word to describe the person about to push for your lynch if you can't convince me otherwise.

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I think Olimar would have brought this up if I was PR hunting him? Plus I don't know why you think I would take such a risk to telling everyone the wolves must have been PR hunting if I was a wolf and that was genuinely what we were doing. I had no suspicion on me, I wouldn't need to take a risk like that to promote my humanity, I would have been free to coast the game questioning people here and there without pulling any risky stunts. I really can't get into this anymore atm cause time, but I'm pretty sure I've talked about this, or something similar regarding the same kind of topic before, so if you are able to find that and give it a re-read it would save me repeating myself :< (sorry no time maybe tomorrow, but now my non-study things to do are building up).

The point is that your constant questioning was not to find wolves but to find PRs. Refer to raekos post against you,

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The Tras log was a possibility at getting the most likely person Olimar could have claimed to, to panic freak out and show wolf. I had to drop it because why would I continue pushing it? The log I had was fake, I lied to everyone, but it was to try to catch a wolf and get a reaction from him. If I continued on with it I would only be seeing if I could get a lynch to stick or not, but that's not my intention, I wanted to get the reaction and I got it so I dropped it. As a wolf it would have been better to let it go on, and if no one bites it then I turn around and go 'lol it was all fake just for reactions lol' and have my wolf partner back me up saying 'yeah he told me it was fake'.

By the time Tras responded, there would of been no need for you to continue pushing it because the BDS lynch was set in stone. Trying to fight tras there would of just brought even more attention on yourself and you can easily distance yourself from THC by having him have a heartbreaking anime betrayal when BDS flips green. Or THC is human and you pocketed him, and now you're trying to shift all the blame onto him. Both are very plausible.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 07, 2018, 03:50:20 PM
Read the suspicion lists from yesterday, she was at the bottom of everybodies. I did think her being a wolf was a possibility if BDS was a wolf and the E Gadd or Tras lead didn't go anywhere.
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Oops I guess I just thought it was so far from being a possibility that I missed that. But that was only Greg, E. Gadd and yourself (Firearrow) that had suspicion lists, so I'm still not sure if that counts as a majority clearing Raeko as human.

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At this point, you PR hunting is seeming a lot more likely to me than Olimar claiming to Tras.

bruh the only 'pr hunting' that has apparently happened from me is from this log here (http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=10003.msg398519#msg398519) and I don't even claim at all to be PR hunting. I say I don't think Greg is a normal human and then I pressure that I think he's a wolf ("You didn’t say you weren’t a wolf"). In no way do I even try to get him to tell me he is special, this has been so far stretched just because Greg initially jumped to the conclusion I was trying to say he was a wolf. Greg didn't even bring this up himself or admit he felt like I was PR hunting.

If you think I PR hunted Olimar?? How?? By PMing him? Don't you think this is something he would have posted, especially given that you think my Greg log suggests I was PR hunting? And what makes me want to post the log with Greg but not the log with Olimar? I'm confused on how this point makes sense.

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Point being you gave us an elaborate statistical analysis that yeilds very little. Still looks more like a ploy to look more human than one to actually find wolves.

thats your opinion, do you think that I would really think, 'hey im suspicious lets go get some data to look less suspicious'. I've played twg for like 7 years now, I know that's now how it works.

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THC is the lowest hanging fruit right now outside of yourself. Considering Greg's adamant suspicion of him throughout the entire game, it's probably also the easiest way for you to turn a lynch away from yourself. I'll give you THC is not the most human looking person right now, but it's mostly because he's such a perfect fit for being your partner.

If I was wolf idk why I would defend THC just to want to lynch him late. And I've not even said I've wanted him lynched yet, but he's one of the first people I've been able to re-assess my opinions on. If I was a wolf with this much pressure on me, it would be beneficial to not narrow down my pool of partners even more.

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Yes, sheepish is a pretty bad word to describe the person about to push for your lynch if you can't convince me otherwise.

So it was this to me that made me think you were sort of sheeping the whole 'it wasnt bds so it must be toby'. And after reading the entire log then flicking back to the start and seeing this, it seemed like you were eating out of THC's paw with the 'toby tricked me' stuff.

log
ThatHiddenCharacter - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
I can't believe I fell for his trick
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
He's a good player

Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:24 AM
Don't feel too bad, just learn from this game
[close]

In hindsight this is very weak, and I was judging it all jumbled up together than chronologically. With that, along with this huge pressuring and seemingly not accepting the possibility I am also human, it seemed odd. But again, I've reeeaaally not looked into it as much as I can. I won't have much time today to do any digging but my exam tomorrow finished at 4pm so from then I will have 6 hours till phase end to do more on this. But my initial thought on it are weak, and will probably only be strengthened if I can find anything to believe you and THC may be partners.


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By the time Tras responded, there would of been no need for you to continue pushing it because the BDS lynch was set in stone.

false, my lynch was seeming pretty much set in stone, and seemed like i would have nothing to lose by trying to get Tras lynched first (if i was wolf). Also you're backing out of this opinion that you had on discord:
Gerik "FireArrow" - Yesterday at 1:31 AM
Tras and toby are not likely partners
because of the whole log thing
I guess because Toby didn't pull the trigger, it could of been a distancing scheme
but at the same time, he couldn't of pulled the trigger because he told you

saying I couldn't have continued with the Tras thing because I told THC about it. but now you want to say that's irrelevant and the reason is because BDS's lynch was confirmed? Most of the votes where on me at that point if I remember correctly.

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Trying to fight tras there would of just brought even more attention on yourself and you can easily distance yourself from THC by having him have a heartbreaking anime betrayal when BDS flips green. Or THC is human and you pocketed him, and now you're trying to shift all the blame onto him. Both are very plausible.

I got what i wanted, my reaction. and damn i waited 40+ hours for it, the phase was almost over I was happy to end the lie as quick as I could, I did not want to continue it much longer after getting Tras' reaction, which was a human one.

As a wolf I would not pocket thc. He is far too knew and possibly chaotic, not active enough and doesn't hold much weight in his posts.

(hi thc, your forum posts just aren't too lengthy and don't have much evidence to back them up, and I'm not sure if you've kept up with this games entirety (including discord (might be wrong)))



I really do think these points on me are weird. You want to believe i make the simplest rulebook wolf errors, but do it for convoluted 300iq reasons.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 08, 2018, 04:33:40 AM
So here's my thoughts on several potential wolf teams, summarized from Discord discussion:

- Toby/(some combination of THC/EGadd/blueflower)

The best case for Toby to be a wolf still centers around his potential to have made the Olimar kill as well as all the weirdness surrounding Toby v BDS. However, I'm starting to have second thoughts about Toby being a wolf: starting from all the stuff last phase, and now his clear confusion with the nightkill (which seemed like the obvious nightkill to both me and FireArrow). Toby's definitely not the kind of guy to ignore his partners' choice of nightkill as a wolf.

Toby's log shenanigans eliminate Tras from consideration from this potential team, in my view.

- FireArrow/(some combination of THC/blueflower/Trasdegi)

Something I noticed recently was that FireArrow was pushing Toby vs BDS pretty hard last day phase, which would obviously work out great for him if he's a wolf and neither Toby nor BDS are. There's also the curious fact that he's put a lot more pressure on Toby compared to me, although he considered me his top suspicion throughout day 1. He's also a good potential pairing with THC since firstly, THC's reaction after BDS flipped was to suspect Toby immediately, and second, FireArrow has pretty much only considered THC wolfy as a partner for Toby. That being said, I'm doubtful FA would have wolfed Olimar, and he's backed off Toby in Discord (although that may have been as a reaction to me, who knows).

Don't think this team goes well with EGadd since FA's instant reaction to EGadd's suspicion list was to dislike it vocally in chat.

- Some combination of quieter players: THC/EGadd/Trasdegi/blueflower

Ehhh. This kind of implies that the Olimar wolfing was dumb luck, which seems pretty weird when you consider that the second wolfkill was pretty much the opposite of the first strategy-wise (being on the least suspicious player, rather than the most). I'm not really convinced by this possibility.


Anyway. If any of you have solid reasons why you can't be partners with people that I've partnered you with, I'd love to hear them.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: blueflower999 on May 08, 2018, 11:24:55 AM
Anyway. If any of you have solid reasons why you can't be partners with people that I've partnered you with, I'd love to hear them.
If either of the top two were my wolf partners, they almost certainly would have convinced me to join the Discord for the sake of cooperation, especially Toby.

I'd love to hear a bit more from either THC or Tras before voting, but I'm not confident that I'm going to be around for phase end. THC I think is a pretty safe vote at the moment, but truthfully I haven't been able to read either that well. I might change this later if anything else happens.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 07:05:11 PM
forgot to post this for u blueflower, what do you think:

Toby - Yesterday at 2:37 AM
while im getting myself ready for sleep i want to check something quickly, @E. Gadd Industries are you here?
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 2:41 AM
Yeah, but not for much longer; I have a big test tomorrow and want sleep
(And for this headache to go away, but that's another story for another time)
Toby - Yesterday at 2:43 AM
uhm its actually ok now
i was going to ask if you could point me in the direction of some of your human games
I've noticed in scrambled eggs you were very quiet and then came out in your 3rd post with  a big suspicion list, a similar thing happened here
I was looked at your other games, in woomy game (you are human) you never really come out with  a big suspicion list but you are consistently more active in that game than how your activity is in this game and how it was in scrambled eggs
your activity levels are also good in the monika game, but you do come out with a bit of a suspicion list, though not as bit as the one's I saw in this game or woomy
im thinking you're a lot less active as a wolf, but you always come out with a big suspicion list to look good
what do you think on that
and i cant even wait for a response or continue this i really need to sleep
also note that this is not my big suspicion and this is not strong i'm just pointing it out as an observation I'm making that I'll hopefully take more time into looking at tomorrow, and I want to collect e. gadds thoughts on this, and maybe if you have an explanation for the varying activity levels
E. Gadd Industries - Yesterday at 2:48 AM
Yeah, so my life is constantly in flux. When I'm school, it's consistently less, but even then, activity levels change as does the inflow of homework, finals, etc.
With regards to sus lists vs. not, I've only recently started playing seriously (if you want me to look for the specific game, I can look for it). And I feel as though giving an analysis on everyone is a good way to show seriousness to a game (and also helps me organize my thoughts on the game, along with showing everyone else my thoughts).
When summer break hits (here in 15ish days), my TWG activity will jump up considerably (until I go on a mission trip to New Orleans in July).This means that while I'll still be giving these analysis/sus posts, it'll seem more... regular? since I won't just go inactive for long stretches of time in between
And that's all I have rn. Have a good night
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 07:31:43 PM
thc cant access pc and wanted this posted

ThatHiddenCharacter - Today at 2:08 AM
@Toby Earlier youentioned that you don't think I'd be comfortable faking suspicions on my partners as a wolf, but I disagree. I may not normally be a risk taker, but with this kind of game, I typically take more risks than I normally would and while it's not really that risky a play, I wouldn't put it past myself to do it as a wolf.
And that would have to be the case if I were a wolf, because the only people I haven't shown suspicion on are FA and Greg, and Greg has shown his suspicions on ke since day 1 with the only vote on ke so far this game.
*me
I'm starting to be slightly less suspicious of you, cause I wouldn't see a wolf working this hard, even to get a mislynch when it's already probable.
I do wanna hear more from @E. Gadd Industries, though before I output more brain energy. If he's available.
(When I said I'm not a risk taker, I meant in everything other than TWG. Not this specific game.)
Ping me if you respond, whoever you are that responds.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 08:20:37 PM
FireArrow, Greg brought up you were suspicious of him Day 1 then dropped it after. comments?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 08, 2018, 08:55:35 PM
Okay, so blueflower voted for THC and he hasn't been wolf rushed yet. Interesting...

Guess this means either blueflower's a wolf or THC is. I'm inclined to think THC, personally.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 09:12:09 PM
did not think of that


other options include you being partnered with Trasdegi and E. Gadd ?
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 08, 2018, 09:19:58 PM
FireArrow, Greg brought up you were suspicious of him Day 1 then dropped it after. comments?

I was suspicious of him d1 and d2 unti he switched his vote to bds, which seemed very human to me.

Trying to decide between toby or thc. A wolf wouldnt just through a vote out like that. Leaning toby but idk convince me.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 09:21:14 PM
i mean the option was me or bds, and there wasn't much in it
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 09:21:58 PM
if i was a wolf and tras/thc aren't my partners this game would be over with thc lynched
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 09:22:38 PM
well actually i guess that includes blueflower not being my partner
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 08, 2018, 09:23:12 PM
But if anyone would be your partner its thc
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 08, 2018, 09:24:23 PM
Actually, the only team that really works for you is toby + thc + blue which makes literally zero semsw at this point so yeh
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 08, 2018, 09:48:56 PM
I don't actually understand what just happened but are we lynching thc???
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 08, 2018, 09:51:44 PM
I think so but a piece of my soul feels like im losing the game by letting toby off the hook
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: FireArrow on May 08, 2018, 09:55:21 PM
We've got 6 minutes so THC
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Toby on May 08, 2018, 09:56:43 PM
THC
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: Greg on May 08, 2018, 09:57:03 PM
THC.
Title: Re: TWG CV (Off the Grid I): Roll of the Dice
Post by: mikey on May 08, 2018, 09:57:12 PM
The game is over.  Wolves win!