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NinSheetMusic => Submission Center => Submission Archive => Topic started by: Zeta on December 03, 2020, 07:27:45 PM

Title: [SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Zeta on December 03, 2020, 07:27:45 PM
Submission Information:

Series: Paper Mario
Game: Paper Mario: The Origami King
Console: Nintendo Switch
Title: Vellumental Battle
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Greg (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2231)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on December 03, 2020, 07:28:17 PM
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: AcceptedSugar on December 19, 2020, 09:18:57 AM
Oh wow this is intense! I like it
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on January 01, 2021, 10:22:42 PM
This track is amazing.

Some small things, first up:
- Beat 1.25 (the second note) of m5/41 should be E# instead of En.
- The second half of m6/42 should be written with naturals and sharps instead of flats and double flats because it's ascending chromatically.
- I would suggest adding double barlines at the beginning of m23 and m31.
- For patterns like LH beat 4 of m33-39, the two tied sixteenths should be written as an eighth instead.

And now bigger things:
- A lot of the time, you only have the RH playing notes, which really takes away a lot of the energy of this track because it makes the melody sound weak and overpowered by the LH chords. I would suggest adding either harmonies (improvise your own) or octaves in certain places to make the RH line stronger, particularly m9-10, m15-20, m34-40, and m43-47. I would suggesting add harmonies/chords in m9-10, octaves to m15-16/19-20, harmonies to m17-18, octaves (maybe with some chord harmonies too) in m33-40, and so on.
- Those consecutive 16th notes in m15-20 LH are nowhere near playable. Can you try changing that part to something else?
- I like the chords in m21-30 LH, but without the driving rhythmicity you had in the LH before m21, m21-30 (which should be the most climactic part of the track) really loses a lot of its impact. Try finding a way to merge a similar rhythmic LH pattern with the chords you have in there now.
- In m45-48 LH, I would just suggest using something similar to what you have on the first page instead of what you have now. To play this 16th-note line while sustaining the whole note, you'd have to pedal (which would sound terrible for the whole 16th-note line), and the 16th-note line just isn't as harmonically or rhythmically important as the chords you had previously.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on January 12, 2021, 02:11:08 AM
Thanks for the feedback, you really pinpointed some vague misgivings I had about this sheet.


With respect to the bigger items:
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on February 18, 2021, 07:52:00 PM
Sorry for the delay on getting back to you. This looks much better!

The main thing is the LH in m23-30: it's much better than before, but the problem now is that the chords are really muddy in such a low register. I also feel like when the eighth note part is on the bottom, the motion doesn't stick out as much as I'd like it to because it's so low. I wonder if it's possible to put the eighth notes above the chords/quarter notes, although I'm not sure it would be playable. Maybe play around with that idea, and if it doesn't work, at least try to thin the chords a bit so they don't sound so muddy.

Other feedback:
- For m9/m45/m47, you might consider adding grace notes leading down to beat 3 to simulate the sliding violin in the original.
- In m17-18 RH, I would move the eighth rests back down to the center of the staff since Layer 2 is so low.
- I think m19-20 RH would probably be better written in bass clef (except for m20 beat 4).
- Finale likes to break eighth note beams when grace notes are involved... I'd recommend manually rebeaming m25 RH back into groups of four.
- I'd add staccatos to m33/m34/m37/m38 RH beat 1.
- For m35-36 RH, I'd suggest deleting the tied 16ths on beats 2 and 4 (e.g. leave the 16ths on beats 1.75/3.75 as isolated, untied notes). It'd make those measures look less cluttered.
- Hmm, the quarter note LH rhythm in m21-22 feels like a bit of a sudden momentum break, so I wonder if adding eighth notes to the LH would make it better... but if you're intending for that phrase to be a buildup to the climax in m23-30, I think the quarter notes work too.
- Not sure I'm a fan of having B's on the bottom of all the dyads in m39 beats 3-4... maybe try other notes instead for some of them?
- IMO I think m34 beat 1 and m38 are not powerful enough when the chord is not outlined by an octave. I would suggest doubling the top note below, either by adding it on top of what you have or (probably more playable) changing one of the notes you have to it.
- For m40 RH beats 3-4, you might consider doubling the top note an octave down to end the phrase strongly.

This one's getting there! Really excited to see how it turns out in the end.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on February 23, 2021, 01:43:38 AM
Files have been updated. Some notes:
Thanks as always for the feedback.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Static on March 01, 2021, 07:10:30 PM
This is a really solid arrangement, nice work. I just have a few more technical things:

Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 06, 2021, 03:01:43 AM
Everything should be taken care of. I realized I was using a really old version of the NSM template (hence the margin issues) so I just copied everything to the newest template and rearranged the measures accordingly.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 16, 2021, 10:02:15 AM
- Ouch, m19-22 does not look good cramped into a single system. For measure distribution per system, I might suggest something like... m19-21, m22-25, m26-29, and then the rest are three-measure systems except m42-45 which is another four-measure system. The obvious downside is that you no longer have the four-measure phrases m23-26 and m27-30 neatly packaged as four-measure systems, but I think it's a better alternative to how cramped m19-22 is right now. You can try messing around with other options too if you'd like.
- m23-30: I think I would remove the thirds from all the Layer 2 triads and just make them dyads. I think it's the best way to remove the muddiness of the sound while preserving the powerful effect. Otherwise, I think this part is good!

And then some spacing stuff:
- m15/17/19 RH: I would re-position the dynamics and move them down a bit more so they're not so close to touching the RH notes.
- m19-22 could use a little more breathing room between the staves; the RH slur is nearly touching the LH.
- The m22 RH Layer 2 beat 3 quarter rest should be moved up a bit, maybe to about here-ish (ignore the fact that the staccato positioning is messed up in this image):
Image
(https://i.imgur.com/EWRBNju.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Static on March 16, 2021, 10:09:32 AM
Wow I got sniped by msf just as I was gonna post lol

Well you got everything I was gonna say anyway, but one last thing: the Gb in m10 should be F# since it's ascending chromatically
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 17, 2021, 10:34:10 AM
Thanks, took care of all that stuff. (I opted to instead put m7-10 into a single line to preserve the phrasing in m23-26: I think it looks fine (definitely less cramped then before), but then I also thought it looked fine before so maybe I'm wrong lmao)
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Static on March 17, 2021, 02:58:26 PM
Well this gets an approval from me, just move the copyright/url textbox down a bit. It seems a bit too high up, and it would also allow you to space out the systems on page 1 a bit more. You could also move the systems on page 2 down, there's a lot of empty space on the bottom.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 18, 2021, 12:51:52 AM
So I may have exported the PDF on A4 instead of letter paper size, whoops. Fixed!
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Latios212 on March 18, 2021, 05:52:26 PM
Just glancing and this is looking pretty nice! A few things:
- I think the E# in m. 5/41 might be better spelled as Fn
- Measure 19 through beat 3 of 20 might be better in bass clef in the right hand
- There's no dynamic at the end of the crescendo in m. 22 - might want to show the dynamic in 23
- Minor thing, but when there's only grace note I prefer it to only have one flag (i.e. a small 8th note instead of a 16th note)
- m. 45/47 should use G# like other places
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 19, 2021, 02:48:59 AM
Should be taken care of. I do prefer m.19-20 as is, to mirror the previous iteration of the same pattern (and on balance I think it's easier to read both iterations in treble clef than in bass clef).
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 21, 2021, 08:58:07 PM
Last thing: what do you think about the following measure distribution? There's extra space on pg. 3 for another system, so:
Image
(https://i.imgur.com/Z1lnBXe.png)
[close]

Also make sure that your systems are spaced the same on pg. 3 as they are on pg. 2!
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Static on March 21, 2021, 09:06:03 PM
^ That looks good, but I'd actually recommend just 3 measures for the bottom system on page 1. Maybe put that extra measure into the second or fifth system on page 2.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 21, 2021, 09:47:01 PM
Quote from: Static on March 21, 2021, 09:06:03 PM^ That looks good, but I'd actually recommend just 3 measures for the bottom system on page 1. Maybe put that extra measure into the second or fifth system on page 2.
I think that four measures in the second system on page 2 looks way too cramped, IMO. The fifth measure on page 2 works, but then m23-30 doesn't fit nicely into two systems, which I don't like. So overall I'd personally recommend the one I posted.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 23, 2021, 12:06:02 AM
Seems good to me. I've updated with MSF's suggested measure distribution.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Static on March 23, 2021, 09:22:04 AM
Quote from: mastersuperfan on March 21, 2021, 09:47:01 PMI think that four measures in the second system on page 2 looks way too cramped, IMO. The fifth measure on page 2 works, but then m23-30 doesn't fit nicely into two systems, which I don't like. So overall I'd personally recommend the one I posted.
Fair enough, but I still think the last system on page 1 is quite cramped the way you have it, at least to me. One of the systems on page 3 I think would be better suited to have an extra measure. Something like this perhaps?
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/LT6R1oO.png)
[close]
Title: Re: [SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 27, 2021, 12:03:20 AM
I spent some time staring at both measure distributions and ended up switching to Static's.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 27, 2021, 12:15:20 AM
Quote from: Static on March 23, 2021, 09:22:04 AMFair enough, but I still think the last system on page 1 is quite cramped the way you have it, at least to me. One of the systems on page 3 I think would be better suited to have an extra measure. Something like this perhaps?
Spoiler
(https://i.imgur.com/LT6R1oO.png)
[close]
That does look good too. I see your point that m13-16 does look a bit cramped, so I think either way is fine—whichever Greg decides.
Ninja'd. Never mind lol

In the meantime, last few things:
- m18 LH beat 4 rhythm is miswritten as two eighths instead of 16th-dotted 8th.
- I would add another note below the Eb (either a G or a C) on m25/29 LH beat 4. Without a second note under the Eb, beat 4 feels a little empty.
- You might consider making the bottom note on m39 RH beat 4 a C instead of a Bb (under the F). I think the C sounds a bit better than the Bb—up to you.
- I would simplify m45/46/47 LH beats 2-3 like this, to get rid of repeated notes (especially with the little finger, which might be hard):
Image
(https://i.imgur.com/5KkPUth.png)
[close]
- On a similar note, you might consider simplifying the LH pickup from m44 into m45. Repeating those notes four times in a row does not seem easy...

I think that's it. Great sheet!
Title: Re: [SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 27, 2021, 01:54:10 AM
Sure, updated the sheet. (I will say that the difference in the m18 LH rhythm is intentional: the original also differs there.)

Thanks again for all the feedback, sheet's way better than when I originally submitted it.
Title: Re: [SWITCH] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 27, 2021, 08:18:35 AM
Quote from: mastersuperfan on March 27, 2021, 12:15:20 AMI think that's it. Great sheet!
Oops, that was not quite it.
- Can you go to Document > Document Options > Key Signatures and uncheck the box that says "When Switching Between Sharps and Flats"? The canceling naturals at the key changes are redundant when it's switching from sharps to flats, so this just makes it look cleaner.
- Your copyright information on the first page is below the page margin (should be bottom-aligned; click on it and go to Text > Alignment > Bottom (Footer). You might also want to move up the systems on pg. 1 a wee bit to distance it a bit from the copyright once you move the copyright up.
- Can you highlight all the measures and go to Utilities > Music Spacing > Apply Note Spacing? The layout updates slightly when I do this.
- You also may or may not consider putting a two-note slur on beat 3 to 3.75 in m8/44 RH.

Now that's it.
Title: Re: [SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Greg on March 27, 2021, 10:59:25 AM
No worries, you got it! (Although I wish I knew how the heck the copyright got misaligned...)
Title: Re: [SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 27, 2021, 07:50:15 PM
Sweet!
Title: Re: [SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg
Post by: Zeta on March 27, 2021, 07:50:22 PM
This submission has been accepted by mastersuperfan (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3561).

~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot