Submission Information:
Series: Kirby
Game: Kirby's Return to Dream Land
Console: Wii
Title: Steel Station
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Kricketune54 (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6528)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Measure distribution and system spacing needs work, but we can do that later.
Other formatting stuff - lower 1st layer rests to be in line with first layer notes in LH
--Thought about it more and, although they technically are different voices, the bassline would look a lot better and nothing would be lost if they were just combined into one, and I recommend doing that.
LH first:
m5/9 - I don't hear a note played on b4.25, and b4.5 sounds like a Bbm
m6/10 - I hear nothing on b4.25 or b4.75, and b4.5 is a Ab.
For the above, it'd be best to indicate the gap with a staccatoed 8th instead of a 16th+16th rest.
I'd recommend going through measures like m21 again. This is what I hear that's playable.
(https://i.fiery.me/2Ks0k.jpg)
There is a 16th on b3.25, but the jump from that to the 3rd is very challenging so I recommend leaving it out.
m24:
(https://i.fiery.me/3wQDQ.jpg)
RH:
I don't hear staccatos in m17-19, just normal harp playing
I don't hear anything being played on b4 of m24
For places where the RH has some sort of industrial background noise, I'd recommending putting a p or something above the staff to indicate that the RH is quieter than the LH, since those voices aren't really parts of the melody.
The repeats are really far apart, so I'd recommend using a D.S. instead.
Thank you for the feedback, I've uploaded new files addressing each of these points
For LH such as at m12 should I put parentheses on the last 16th of beat 3? Would apply for a couple other places the 16ths overlap with held rhythms.
I followed your bullet on LH starting at 21; do you hear the second half of the rhythm I have at 28? It's pretty muddy there and that's what I was hearing.
m28 b1-2 is identical to m24 b1-2. I'm not totally sure about the rest of it. Looks maybe fine?
Go for the parentheses I guess. I might actually suggest putting it in the RH because holding that note with the RH while playing around it with the LH sounds kinda impossible.
Formatting stuff that can be fixed later
-Game name is too low below title
-Is title the right size
-Why is the arranger name a dynamic
-Beaming 16ths over rests (b2 of m13, for example) is a good idea and should be done.
Adjust this and I approve, pending the above fixes.
Quote from: Maelstrom on March 13, 2021, 11:31:21 AM-Is title the right size
Fixed all points and resubmitted. Notepad tells me it's the right size, though I can clearly see it's not. I bumped it up to 28pt font on my end not sure if that puts it out of wack for Finale for you, but it looks correct on my end
What you have is very true to the notes in the original, but when the parts themselves don't sound great when combined on a piano, it's best to try and take a few liberties to make them fit better. i.e. the F# in m3-4/29-32 RH sounds extremely out of place on a piano—I'd suggest trying to find a different note that sounds better instead.
m21-28 is the other big part that I don't think works too well on piano as written, for two reasons: one is that the melody, as a single voice, just isn't that strong and doesn't have a lot to it, and the second is that the bassline feels empty because it doesn't have notes on important beats, like beat 3. For (1), I would try adding in harmonies and/or octaves under the RH melody to fill it up, and for (2), you might consider adding a G on beat 3, for instance, to give rhythmic emphasis to that beat. More than that, though, there's a lot of room to play around with and experiment here. This is a tricky piece to translate to piano, and I think it takes some creativity to really get it to sound good. The LH part you write doesn't have to be the bassline from the original verbatim.
Other stuff:
- Dynamic in marking m1 is too low.
- First system should be indented; let me know if you can't get this.
- In general, I don't tend to write staccatos on 16th notes unless they're suuuuper short because 16th notes are already short and fast enough that they'll be played pretty detached by default.
- In m1-12 LH, I would remove the sixteenth note that lands directly on beat 2. That line is so distinctive that adding the bass note on beat 2 really interferes with it, at least to me. (m37-40 too)
- In m18-19 RH, there's a four-16th-note rhythm on beat 1, instead of just a dotted eighth - 16th. See if you can hear it and add it in.
- The Db's on page 3 should be written as C#'s.
Thank you for such a thorough response and feedback. New edits uploaded.
Quote- In general, I don't tend to write staccatos on 16th notes unless they're suuuuper short because 16th notes are already short and fast enough that they'll be played pretty detached by default.
^ I took staccatos off... kinda bugs my ears knowing the actual lengths, but I understand your feedback. Guessing it wouldn't make sense to write 32nd's instead because of how fast it would be.
Quote- First system should be indented; let me know if you can't get this.
still not sure how this happens, but I can't seem to fix on my own unfortunately. I apologize in advance for all the reformatting that automatically occurred in several areas of the pages while editing. I'm still not sure how to deal with this, but just know that this was one of my earlier sheets and I have learned a lot when it comes to putting together my MuseScore files in a better formatted way (so hopefully less to do on future submissions).
I cannot do this on the Finale Notepad sheet, but could pedal markings could be placed on the first two measures? As well as halfway through 13 to 19 because of the melody part there; I want to capture that sort of distant/reverb sound of the melody that is present for those first two measures as well as the other mentioned measures.
Overall, I took a stab at addressing all of the areas you said were too literal. I now have tied over to a beat 3 eight note for m21-28 LH (also adding the G to each of those ties). I also doubled the melody octaves from 21-24, and emulated the harp in a second layer from 25-28. I know usually octaves come in after the first reprise of a melody, but I didn't want to do the 25-28 line twice because the harp is not present from 21-24.
I think I got that 18-19 rhythm tho
This is much improved! I'll grab stuff like formatting, spacing, and positioning at the end, but before that, here are some more comments:
- The LH and RH get really close together in m8, and that minor 2nd on beat 4 is really jarring. For m5-12, I would suggest either lowering the LH by an octave or raising the RH by an octave to avoid this.
- When a 16th note lands on a 0.5 beat (e.g. beat 1.5, beat 2.5, beat 3.5) with a 16th rest after it, it's usually cleaner to just write it as a staccato 8th note. Namely, m1 beat 2.5 and every other time that this rhythm repeats. Also m3/4 RH beat 4.5.
- I think m17-19 RH might be easier to read in bass clef.
- For m21-28, you might consider removing the lower note (G) on beat 1.75 LH. Apart from being a bit tricky to play with the consecutive G's, I also think that beat 1.75 is not really a place where you need extra emphasis, so a single note is fine there.
- For m21-23 RH, you might (optionally) consider removing the lower note on beat 4.75 to make it a bit more playable without parallel 16th octaves.
- Hm, I'm not sure about m25-27 RH. I like how you try to vary it up from the previous phrase, but without the octaves, I feel like it loses too much power. Maybe see if you can find some other way to write m25-27 while keeping the octaves? (i.e. maybe keep Layer 2 striking on beat 2, but replace it with harmonies between the two octave notes)
- For m29-36, those staccato eighths + rests would all look cleaner as staccato quarter notes.
- Also for m29-36, would you prefer to use 8vb instead of 8va? If so, I can adjust this for you when I fix it up (if not, that's fine too, I just prefer 8vb myself).
- For m38/39 RH, the last note can just be written as a dotted eighth. A good rule of thumb is that beamed notes in 4/4 should almost never be tied unless you're dealing with complicated/unusual rhythms.
Quote from: mastersuperfan on April 09, 2021, 05:35:54 PMThe LH and RH get really close together in m8, and that minor 2nd on beat 4 is really jarring. For m5-12, I would suggest either lowering the LH by an octave or raising the RH by an octave to avoid this
Sort of compromised on this, raised octave of RH beat 4 in m8 only. When you say about the minor 2nd, are you talking about the Ab in the LH or the Db? I hear what you're saying but I feel like the piece gets altered too much if you raise the main melody in it's introduction or lower the bassline. If it was the Db, I have put forth another compromise of replacing notes in beats 1-2 of m8 with harmony notes. If you think it sounds too corny that way, I'll concede and change one of the octaves of the part for this section.
QuoteI think m17-19 RH might be easier to read in bass clef.
This is a change I don't think I can make, but now that there's the 16ths I agree.
QuoteFor m21-28, you might consider removing the lower note (G) on beat 1.75 LH. Apart from being a bit tricky to play with the consecutive G's, I also think that beat 1.75 is not really a place where you need extra emphasis, so a single note is fine there.
Fixed
QuoteFor m21-23 RH, you might (optionally) consider removing the lower note on beat 4.75 to make it a bit more playable without parallel 16th octaves.
Fixed
QuoteHm, I'm not sure about m25-27 RH. I like how you try to vary it up from the previous phrase, but without the octaves, I feel like it loses too much power. Maybe see if you can find some other way to write m25-27 while keeping the octaves? (i.e. maybe keep Layer 2 striking on beat 2, but replace it with harmonies between the two octave notes)
tried this, let me know if those are the right octaves.
Quote- Also for m29-36, would you prefer to use 8vb instead of 8va? If so, I can adjust this for you when I fix it up (if not, that's fine too, I just prefer 8vb myself).
Took a couple minutes for me to understand this feedback, but yeah 8vb sounds like a better idea. I think that 8va is the default for the MuseScore to Finale transfer.
Anything else from your reply has been fixed in reupload. Hope I caught all the 16ths on 0.5 lol
Quote from: Kricketune54 on April 09, 2021, 06:45:33 PMSort of compromised on this, raised octave of RH beat 4 in m8 only. When you say about the minor 2nd, are you talking about the Ab in the LH or the Db? I hear what you're saying but I feel like the piece gets altered too much if you raise the main melody in it's introduction or lower the bassline. If it was the Db, I have put forth another compromise of replacing notes in beats 1-2 of m8 with harmony notes. If you think it sounds too corny that way, I'll concede and change one of the octaves of the part for this section.
I was referring to the G in the RH next to the F# in the LH. I'm not a fan of raising just this one note up an octave because it changes the contour of the line; my suggestion would just be to lower m5-12 LH by an octave.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on April 09, 2021, 06:45:33 PMHope I caught all the 16ths on 0.5 lol
You actually changed too many lol. 16th notes on beat 0.75s should be kept as 16ths:
Image
(https://i.imgur.com/9S8QweK.png)
Other remaining comments:
- For m1-4, I'd suggest moving the LH line to the RH (kept in the same octave) and then transcribing the low rhythmic bassline in the LH.
- The third note in m8/24 RH should be written as eighth tied to quarter instead of quarter tied to eighth in order to show where beat 3 is.
- Hm, not sure how I feel about the A-C# dyad in m27 RH, especially since the LH is still playing G-C and doesn't play C#-E until beat 3.75. Maybe use G-Cn in the RH instead?
- For m25-27 RH, the Layer 2 quarter rests on beat 4 can be hidden, and then the Layer 1 eighth rests can be moved back to center position.
- Since the last note in m28 LH falls on beat 4.25, that would be better written as a 16th instead of a staccato 8th.
- m28 RH Layer 2 is missing the rest on beat 4 for some reason... although I would suggest just extending Layer 2 to hold for the rest of the measure just to make it look cleaner.
Quote- For m1-4, I'd suggest moving the LH line to the RH (kept in the same octave) and then transcribing the low rhythmic bassline in the LH.
I transcribed 1-4 LH, let me know if you think that totally fits though.
Quote- Hm, not sure how I feel about the A-C# dyad in m27 RH, especially since the LH is still playing G-C and doesn't play C#-E until beat 3.75. Maybe use G-Cn in the RH instead?
A little iffy on this sound. When I made the part I had two edits ago, I was trying to make the second voice emulate the harp. The harp pitch to me there was C#.
I fixed the ties and anything else notepad let me fix that wasn't above it's paygrade. Sorry this is becoming such a hastle- I almost considered spitting this back into MuseScore just to do this all myself.
Went ahead and formatted the files for you: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v4n8vfsysmisgsy/AACl3Rv_VvvFOHc7qGKrJs78a?dl=0
Other stuff I changed:
- Did some fiddling with dynamics: instead of having an mp in m3, I put a cresc. in m1. Moved the mf in m17 to m20. Added a mp to m29.
- Redid measure and system distribution. Fits on 3 pages now.
- Fixed some notes: m1-4 LH beat 4, m22/23/26/27 LH beats 3-4.
- Lowered m13-16 LH an octave to match the original.
- Changed m15 RH F# to a Gb.
- I put the G back on beat 1.75 in m21-28 since it's actually easy to play and I didn't realize that that was actually what was in the original. However, I did remove a Bb on m28 LH beat 3.75 (playtested this one and it just works more smoothly without the Bb on beat 3.75).
- Got rid of the 8va in m29-36 and just transposed the LH down directly.
- Reverted m27 back to what it was before after hearing it in the original. Added top notes to the chords in m25-27 and also rolled them to mimic the harp. Feel free to change this one, if you prefer to remove the top notes or the rolled markings.
Let me know if there are any other changes you want to make. If you're happy with these files, then so am I.
Quote from: mastersuperfan on April 17, 2021, 08:12:12 PM- Fixed some notes: m1-4 LH beat 4
- Lowered m13-16 LH an octave to match the original.
Wow I didn't even know those notes were audible at 1-4 LH beat 4, but I made a mistake in including the notes I had on beat 4. It also had never occurred to me that I had put those bass notes an octave down from what they are, but if that's what you hear it as I'm good.
Quote- Reverted m27 back to what it was before after hearing it in the original. Added top notes to the chords in m25-27 and also rolled them to mimic the harp. Feel free to change this one, if you prefer to remove the top notes or the rolled markings..
I don't mind the roll but do you think the roll should also occur at 17-19 RH? I also have no way to change this even if you agree. Otherwise, I am good with these files
Quote from: Kricketune54 on April 18, 2021, 11:12:03 AMI don't mind the roll but do you think the roll should also occur at 17-19 RH?
Hm, I don't think the roll is necessary there since you already have the arpeggios there (whereas m25-27 doesn't include the actual 16th note rhythm present in the harp line). If you want to add it in m17-19 though, I can change it for you.
Okay then this is all set for me! I've uploaded those files
Looks good to me! Since this went through a lot of changes since Mael looked at it, I'm going to ask another updater to take a quick look before accepting.
One thing (not sure if this is on your end too or just mine): the PDF looks fine, but when I open the MUS, there's a redundant E natural on m27 RH beat 2 that gets in the way of the rolled chord marking. Did you edit the MUS file? If so, Notepad might've screwed it up... or it might just be an import issue on my end.
Hello it's me with the obligatory composer credit: this one is by Hirokazu Ando, as confirmed through the Triple Deluxe sound test.
Quote from: Radiak488417 on April 18, 2021, 09:03:46 PMHello it's me with the obligatory composer credit: this one is by Hirokazu Ando, as confirmed through the Triple Deluxe sound test.
Oooo good snipe, I had not thought to look there and I don't own a copy of the game. Did you manually look in the Triple Deluxe sound test or do you have a link for composer credits?
MSF I can't seem to change the composer text that you used could you dropbox a new .mus and pdf?
Composer breakdown for RTDL is here (https://vgmdb.net/forums/showpost.php?p=70682). A few of the songs are technically unconfirmed but are very educated guesses based on the internal formatting of the sound files and the composers' styles.
Updated the files to include the correct composer info. Same link:
Quote from: mastersuperfan on April 17, 2021, 08:12:12 PMWent ahead and formatted the files for you: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/v4n8vfsysmisgsy/AACl3Rv_VvvFOHc7qGKrJs78a?dl=0
Quote from: mastersuperfan on April 19, 2021, 09:04:40 PMUpdated the files to include the correct composer info. Same link:
Files have been updated
Quote from: mastersuperfan on April 18, 2021, 08:15:40 PMLooks good to me! Since this went through a lot of changes since Mael looked at it, I'm going to ask another updater to take a quick look before accepting.
Did a quick scan and reset the articulations since v26 messed them up in the .mus file. Will accept :)
This submission has been accepted by Latios212 (https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=4344).
~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot