This is all super-old. Nothing to see really
Hi there! This is where I'll be posting my original compositions. So yeah, enjoy :)
"Aprilsmarsj" - for marching band
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Aprilsmarsj%20-%20trombone%20feature%20for%20korps/Aprilsmarsj.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Aprilsmarsj%20-%20trombone%20feature%20for%20korps/Aprilsmarsj.mp3)
"Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten" ("The Norwegian Midterm String Quartet"):
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten.mid)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten.pdf)
"Vinter" - for 2 clarinets & string quartet
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Tentamen%20v%C3%A5ren%202014.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Tentamen%20v%C3%A5ren%202014.mid)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Tentamen%20v%C3%A5ren%202014.pdf)
"Untitled (Piano F-dur 14.09.13)"
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13.pdf)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13.mid)
for band:
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13/for%20jazz%20combo.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13/for%20jazz%20combo.mp3)
"C Mixolydian Blues March"
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj.mp3)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj.pdf)
"F Blues Jam"
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/F%20blues%20jam/F%20blues%20jam.mp3)
"March 2"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Original%20Marsj%2025.06.13/Original%20mars%2025.06.13.mus)
"Untitled 8"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/piano%2026.05.13/piano%2026.05.13.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/piano%2026.05.13/piano%2026.05.13.mid)
"Untitled 7"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/26.05.13/26.05.13.mus)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/26.05.13/26.05.13.mp3)
"Untitled 6"
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Mixolydisk%2025.05.13/mixolydisk%2025.05.13.mid)
"Untitled 5"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/25.05.13/25.05.13.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/25.05.13/25.05.13.mid)
"Untitled 1"
MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/My%20own%20waltz%20kinda%20thing.mus)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/My%20own%20waltz%20kinda%20thing.mp3)
Whitout hiding the staves ~MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/My%20own%20waltz%20kinda%20thing%20kopi.mus) (looks messy tho)
"Untitled 2"
MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Untitled%202.mus)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Untitled%202.mp3) (sound quality changed somehow, I don't like it but hey, it's the same song i guess)
"Untitled 3" ~ I strongly recommend using headsets
MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Untitled%203.mus) ~ I hid the staves again >)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Untitled%203.mp3)
Nice pieces, but why are you hiding staves?
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 24, 2012, 09:18:11 AMNice pieces, but why are you hiding staves?
Yeah! When arranging only for piano it's OK, but now you really should do two versions, one with the hidden staves shown and the other one with the hidden staves well... hidden. :)
Very nice compositions! I specially like the second one. It would fit perfectly for a "Staff Roll" of a game, specially Pokemon imo.
I tried composing something like a week ago, but I guess I'm not inspired right now. :P
Quote from: Olimar12345 on July 24, 2012, 09:18:11 AMNice pieces, but why are you hiding staves?
Free the staves! Let them go!
I see what you mean, guys. I "free'd the staves" or whatever, so yeah - fix'd ^.^
Also, thanks for the compliments!
New song up! The third of my Untitled series! jk, but have a listen! :)
Added some of my non-video game related arrangements. :)
Quote from: Jompa on July 24, 2012, 03:34:43 AMHi there! This is where I'll be posting my original compositions. So yeah, enjoy :)
"Midway of Fall"
MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/My%20own%20waltz%20kinda%20thing.mus)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/My%20own%20waltz%20kinda%20thing.mp3)
Whitout hiding the staves ~MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/My%20own%20waltz%20kinda%20thing%20kopi.mus) (looks messy tho)
"On The Road Again"
MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Untitled%202.mus)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Untitled%202.mp3) (sound quality changed somehow, I don't like it but hey, it's the same song i guess)
:D <3 Epic. I already have lyrics in mind. And these remind me of PMD somehow.
But the 3rd song's MP3 doesn't work. :( You better fix that!!! >:(
Thanks :)
Well, the link works for me - So I'm not sure what's up :P
I remember Clannad! :3 Piece of advice: It would probably be easier for the flutes and piccolos if you removed the ottava alta and wrote in the ledger lines :>
Not according to our flutists. They all agreed that they'd prefer it this way - C, we're playing this in my school band.
Clannad was great - I cried a couple of times, just arranging this song ^^
Quote from: Jompa on September 09, 2012, 01:18:02 PMNot according to our flutists. They all agreed that they'd prefer it this way - C, we're playing this in my school band.
Clannad was great - I cried a couple of times, just arranging this song ^^
Well then by all means, keep it that way. It's all about making it easier to read.
Working on jazz band arrangement for "Tank!" from Cowboy Bebop :D It's not finished yet - but please, tell me what you think!
There were a few spots that the trumpets had 8vb from the original that kina...didn't sound as cool. :-\
Also, that tbn line from 56 to 66 isn't going to work well for the tenor trombone-I recomend moving it an octave higher, or getting rid of it.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on September 10, 2012, 12:16:14 PMThere were a few spots that the trumpets had 8vb from the original that kina...didn't sound as cool. :-\
Also, that tbn line from 56 to 66 isn't going to work well for the tenor trombone-I recomend moving it an octave higher, or getting rid of it.
Great thanks for the tips!:) I need this kinda stuff
Haha, I thought your Untitled 2's beginning was Goldenrod City..
Quote from: MoboMoga on September 10, 2012, 06:03:04 PMHaha, I thought your Untitled 2's beginning was Goldenrod City..
ikr? - I noticed when I was finished with it :P
New composition! :D
"Undercover"
PDF (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Undercover.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Undercover.mp3)
So, me and a girl in my class formed a duet-kinda-thing with me on the piano (which I cannot play btw) and her on viola.
AND, we decided to play this:
Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu
Soshite, Itsumo no Fuukei ~ Viola & Pno
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Itsumo%20no%20Fuukei%20duet/Soshite%2C%20Itsumo%20no%20Fuukei%20-%20Viola%20%26%20Piano.mp3)
PDF (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Itsumo%20no%20Fuukei%20duet/Soshite%2C%20Itsumo%20no%20Fuukei%20-%20Viola%20%26%20Piano.pdf)
This is the cutest song ever
:O
Just wait for our "Suzumiya Haruhi no Tegakari"!
What do you mean?
Go check Made Mah Day. ;)
OH MY FUCKING GOD, FSM!!! THAT'S BRUTALLY AWESOME!
just tell me; Why, the fuck, are you playing stuff from Haruhi?
But damn, that's absolutely awesomely awesome!!
We're playing THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueZ5XzZdz-8) in my big band now!
Quote from: Jompa on October 09, 2012, 01:19:16 PMOH MY FUCKING HARUHI, FSM!!!
Fixed, lulz.
It's nothing official, it's not going to be played in a concert. I know lots of talented people from the orchestra(actually, only the best of the best are in that orchestra. I couldn't even get to the audition because of my lack of skill with the violin), they are good friends of mine. I decided that we could do something fun together, and I picked this song. We will play it in the cafeteria in the Helsinki's Musiikkitalo(transl. Music Building or something like that).
FSM, thats great. Btw, how many different instruments do you play?
Wayyyyyy more than you'd think.
About 13, currently learning tuba.
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on October 09, 2012, 01:29:28 PMQuote from: Jompa on October 09, 2012, 01:19:16 PMOH MY FUCKING HARUHI, FSM!!! THAT'S BRUTALLY AWESOME!
Fixed, lulz.
Someone suddenly got obsessed with haruhi, even your profile picture. :) Can't blame you tho, it's really good, it's a stepping stone in anime. It even has it's own religion; Haruhiism (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=haruhiism)
I had never watched any anime(except Pokémon and YuGiOh).
Don't hate me for this, but I used to think that anime was for whimps.
I heard so much good of this anime from you guys so I decided to watch one episode. After lmao something lead to another and the next thing you know, is that it's 2 AM and the Endless Eight had just started.(I actually watched all the episodes) The idea was actually absolutely brilliant. After you had watched the movie, you understood Nagato better. If you get sick from watching the same episode all over again, imagine how she must have felt for re-living the same two weeks all over again!
Edit: I'm nuts. I posted that much?! :o I usually do short posts.
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on October 10, 2012, 09:36:42 AMThe idea was actually absolutely brilliant. After you had watched the movie, you understood Nagato better. If you get sick from watching the same episode all over again, imagine how she must have felt for re-living the same two weeks all over again!
Yes, FSM, everyone knows - but the endless eight is at least four episodes too long. I watched them all too, poor nagato :'(
Quote from: Jompa on October 09, 2012, 01:19:16 PMWe're playing THIS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueZ5XzZdz-8) in my big band now!
MP3 would be nice. ^.^
Added a jazz band arrangement of "The Goiun" from "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya" for my "small-big band".
This piece is amazing! The composer, Satoru Kousaki is a genius - the whole soundtrack is brilliant!
Well, since you're following my compositions, I should return the favor, right?
I like Untitled 1! A few things I would think of:
What if you change the chord in bar 17 to a Db, and in bar 18 to a Eb? That would sound pretty awesome. Same in bar 33-34 and 65-66 (still keep the C7 chord though).
Also, the end would sound much better if it was a F chord (not minor) in bar 68-69.
Quote from: Bloop on December 26, 2012, 04:25:07 PMWell, since you're following my compositions, I should return the favor, right?
That's cool, thanx :)
QuoteI like Untitled 1! A few things I would think of:
What if you change the chord in bar 17 to a Db, and in bar 18 to a Eb? That would sound pretty awesome. Same in bar 33-34 and 65-66 (still keep the C7 chord though).
Those are great tips! However, I am most likely not going to do anything about it, for several reasons. Mainly because in my band, we're playing an original piece, written out of Untitled 1 - basically it's the same song, just jazzed up. Also - my piano teacher loved it, and is now using it as an easy-to-play piano piece, for some of his other students. My point is that it would feel kinda weird to change anything now, on this early version. It would kinda obligate me to do these changes on the jazz band version, and the easy-to-play piano version, as well - and that wouldn't really work out. In the band, we try not to use sheet music on stage, so we already have this song memorized. So on that account, changing it would be bad.
QuoteAlso, the end would sound much better if it was a F chord (not minor) in bar 68-69.
Sorry Bloop, but that ending is how I want it to be. It's more dramatic this way, having a major chord here would just ruin the whole impression.
Thanks for looking at my song! :)
Thanks for the tips as well. Even though I wont change any of the things you pointed out, criticism is always useful, for future reference.
Also; please take a look at this - it's the jazz band version of "Untitled 1", we're playing in my band, which I think turned out great:
Pirate Waltz nr.1 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/JBF%20-%20original/JBF%20original.mus) <-- The name wasn't my idea
Of course, it sounds much better when played by real instruments.:)
Quote from: Jompa on December 26, 2012, 05:23:31 PMThose are great tips! However, I am most likely not going to do anything about it, for several reasons. Mainly because in my band, we're playing an original piece, written out of Untitled 1 - basically it's the same song, just jazzed up. Also - my piano teacher loved it, and is now using it as an easy-to-play piano piece, for some of his other students. My point is that it would feel kinda weird to change anything now, on this early version. It would kinda obligate me to do these changes on the jazz band version, and the easy-to-play piano version, as well - and that wouldn't really work out. In the band, we try not to use sheet music on stage, so we already have this song memorized. So on that account, changing it would be bad.
Ah, I understand. But like you said, "criticism is always useful, for future reference."
Quote from: Jompa on December 26, 2012, 05:23:31 PMSorry Bloop, but that ending is how I want it to be. It's more dramatic this way, having a major chord here would just ruin the whole impression.
That's fine; It's just my taste of making songs. I'm more used to a major chord than a minor one after a sus4 chord.
Quote from: Jompa on December 26, 2012, 05:23:31 PMAlso; please take a look at this - it's the jazz band version of "Untitled 1", we're playing in my band, which I think turned out great:
Pirate Waltz nr.1 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/JBF%20-%20original/JBF%20original.mus) <-- The name wasn't my idea
Of course, it sounds much better when played by real instruments.:)
I will take a look tomorrow, it's like 3:00 AM here.
EDIT:
Quote from: Jompa on December 26, 2012, 05:23:31 PMAwesome song nr.1 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/JBF%20-%20original/JBF%20original.mus)
O_O Wow, I love this! It does have a pirate-vibe to it. I should listen more jazz.
Haha, glad you liked it ^.^
Quote from: Bloop on December 26, 2012, 05:59:32 PMThat's fine; It's just my taste of making songs. I'm more used to a major chord than a minor one after a sus4 chord.
There are two main cases where sus4 is used.
The most common is dominant13sus4->dominant13->tonika or dominnant7b9(b13)sus4->dominant7b9(b13)->tonikaminor. So in this case the sus4 ALLWAYS goes to a major chord, because the third in a dominantminor chord wouldn't lead to tonika.
Then there is tonikasus4. If the song is in major, then you are kinda obligated to end it in major, or else it would just be really weird. But in the case of minor, then you could choose. sus4->major or sus4->minor. They give very different effects. In most genres it's most reasonable to end in major after a sus4. In "Untitled 1" I didn't want that "what happened now"-effect at the end, changing it to major, but I wanted that "God, that was powerful"-ending, so I chose minor :P
My father recorded me playing a solo with my band, so I figured I might as well post it here:
The song is "What Planet is This?" by Yoko Kanno & The Seatbelts ---- my arrangement, of course:
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fexternal.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fsafe_image.php%3Fd%3DAQAaBL87HCfhq6js%26amp%3Burl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvthumb.ak.fbcdn.net%252Fhvthumb-ak-prn1%252Fs403x403%252F41931_10152124568615656_10152124566355656_63920_808_b.jpg%26amp%3Bjq%3D100&hash=837d370544fe35c7c76f3bccd60fed452f8ce7bc) (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/What%20Planet%20is%20This%3F/IMG_0307.MOV)
So yeah, now y'all know how I look, and how good I am at improvising :P
LOL the guy with curly blond hair with a red shirt makes me laugh. He seems to enjoy your performance very much. X)
Quote from: MoboMoga on January 19, 2013, 10:05:29 AMLOL the guy with curly blond hair with a red shirt makes me laugh. He seems to enjoy your performance very much. X)
HAha, funny you should mention:
He's actually a tenor saxophonist at my school, as well :P
When your grandparents live far away, and you have to sit in the car for eight hours, and the only cool thing on your Mac that doesn't require internet is Finale PrintMusic,
you may find yourself composing: :P
"Me-playing-around-with-harmonic-minor-song"
MUS (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Harmonisk%20moll%2029.mars%202013.mus)
PDF (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Harmonisk%20moll%2029.mars%202013.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Harmonisk%2029.mars%202013.mp3)
MIDI (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Harmonisk%20moll%2029.mars%202013.mid)
I made a song. I tried bossa nova, I mean why not, right?
I called it "251 Bossa Nova" simply because the main piano riff at the start, y'know is 251, repeating over and over.. Nothing more.
So here: :)
"251 Bossa Nova"
-------------------------------------------------
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/251%20Bossa%20Nova/251%20bossa%20nova%20ensemble.mus)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/251%20Bossa%20Nova/251%20bossa%20nova%20ensemble.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/251%20Bossa%20Nova/251%20bossa%20nova%20ensemble.mp3)
I made a song, yay!
"Untitled 5"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/25.05.13/25.05.13.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/25.05.13/25.05.13.mid)
And I made another one :P
"Untitled 6"
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Mixolydisk%2025.05.13/mixolydisk%2025.05.13.mid)
Woah, those were cool! Makes me wanna learn some jazz theory....
Thanks!
Three songs in two days is not to bad eh:
"Untitled 7"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/26.05.13/26.05.13.mus)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/26.05.13/26.05.13.mp3)
Quote from: FireArrow on May 25, 2013, 05:58:02 PMWoah, those were cool! Makes me wanna learn some jazz theory....
As a good unknown composer on Youtube roughly said: Follow your ear if you want to compose. Don't learn too much theory too early. Improvise constantly. And so on.
The point is, you want learn jazz theory but you should try to learn improvise jazz and listen to jazz to analyze the pieces structually etc. And ofc do ear training (especially focused on jazz) but you are probably good at it already considering you arrange pieces.
Quote from: FireArrow on May 25, 2013, 05:58:02 PMMakes me wanna learn some jazz theory....
I wouldn't say there's any different theory to jazz than there is to any other music, because there really isn't.
Quote from: Ricky on May 26, 2013, 11:16:37 PMAs a good unknown composer on Youtube roughly said: Follow your ear if you want to compose. Don't learn too much theory too early. Improvise constantly. And so on.
The point is, you want learn jazz theory but you should try to learn improvise jazz and listen to jazz to analyze the pieces structually etc. And ofc do ear training (especially focused on jazz) but you are probably good at it already considering you arrange pieces.
I don't even know what a jazz scale is... so improvising jazz is a bit over my head. :P
Quote from: FireArrow on May 27, 2013, 01:41:25 PMI don't even know what a jazz scale is... so improvising jazz is a bit over my head. :P
You don't need a jazz scale to play jazz although there probably are some specific scales in jazz. I would say using the modes can be enough. It's probably more about using different types of chord extensions and syncopated rhythms to make it sound like jazz but I don't know as I don't know much about jazz.
Again, it's not the theory that makes it jazz.
Rythm and modes and stuff is used in all music.
"Jazz" is that wide music genre that more or less group together styles such as bossa nova or swing or boogeywoogey and so on.
The whole "point" of jazz is improvisation.
To create a piece of jazz you don't need any more than a simple progression, but there are characteristics that make it jazz, obviously.
So you don't need any "jazz-theory" to play or make jazz. It is about the way you execute it!
Now I'm more confused... D:
What makes jazz jazz? How do I execute something to make it Jazz?
Anyways, this is somewhat off-topic - I really liked your new composition Jompa!
Quote from: Jompa on May 28, 2013, 04:00:36 AMAgain, it's not the theory that makes it jazz.
Rythm and modes and stuff is used in all music.
I didn't deny that. Ofc, it's used all over music. I was referring to the increased emphasis on syncopated rhythms and chord extensions (not to mentioned the general instrumentation).
Quote from: Jompa on May 28, 2013, 04:00:36 AM"Jazz" is that wide music genre that more or less group together styles such as bossa nova or swing or boogeywoogey and so on.
You've got a point. It's like you can't group together a bunch of random classical pieces and say they are in the same style.
Quote from: Jompa on May 28, 2013, 04:00:36 AMThe whole "point" of jazz is improvisation.
How come there is written jazz then? I hope you don't think improvisation is limited to jazz or improvisation equals jazz. Obviously you can improvise in different classical styles (not to mention many great composers did improvise) and probably in pop and rock too.
Quote from: Jompa on May 28, 2013, 04:00:36 AMTo create a piece of jazz you don't need any more than a simple progression, but there are characteristics that make it jazz, obviously.
So you don't need any "jazz-theory" to play or make jazz. It is about the way you execute it!
Exactly what I was saying... Three of those characteristics are (if I'm not too wrong) more syncopated rhythms, the usual instrumentation and wider more frequent use of chord extensions. Like with any style, it's about how all the musical things relate to one another.
My point was just that nothing you guys specified is any different to any other music. Syncopations are used in a lot more than just jazz, and there is jazz that don't use syncopations.
Quote from: FireArrow on May 28, 2013, 02:48:07 PMNow I'm more confused... D:
What makes jazz jazz? How do I execute something to make it jazz?
well, there are plenty of ways, as there are plenty of sub-genres - so to find out ways to make something jazz, you first have to listen to it.
Quote from: Jompa on May 28, 2013, 10:50:42 PMso to find out ways to make something jazz, you first have to listen to it.
Wierd chords that sound amazing? I've got some listening to do...
Quote from: Jompa on May 28, 2013, 10:50:42 PMSyncopations are used in a lot more than just jazz
I didn't say syncopations were exclusive to jazz, I just said they appear more frequently in jazz (maybe I'm wrong though). Yes other music can be heavily syncopated too.
Not like it's to big of a deal or anything, but you guys narrow jazz down a tiny little bit too much.
Quote from: FireArrow on May 28, 2013, 11:21:44 PMWierd chords that sound amazing?
:) That really depends on how you view jazz. One of my favorite jazz pieces in the world is Too Good Too Bad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUTMw7rEsDk). And there are literally only four different chords, and 3/4 of them are totally simple:
The scary chord in the wind instruments at the start and the beginning is a Bbm11 with a Cb in the bass - yes this is a weird chord, but it is only there to create tension and noise, so it's not exactly theory. And it is not really a part of the progression anyways. And in my opinion a classical piece could pull this off as well.
And the rest of the chords in the song are Bbm, Eb9(major) and F7b9(b13). Notice that the Eb is in major - in minor the subdominant is usually in minor, but there is absolutely no rule saying it has to be - the reason it's in major in this song is because Too Good Too Bad is in dorian mode, which is just co-incidentally chosen by the composer. Well, these three chords are literally used in almost every single song in minor (though Eb is in major in this case), and I'm not talking about every single
jazz-song in minor - I mean every single song in minor that has an exciting enough progression to use the dominant and the subdominant - which is basically is a lot of songs - jazz, classical or whatev.
And this song is jazz!!! Even if the chord progression is nothing special and the chords themselves aren't really exciting.
And this would still be jazz if it was performed by strings, and not a big band.
Everyone knows a jazz piece when they hear one - I think that would be my conclusion.
It's such a freaking wide genre.
I mean, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3xmH6kaddY), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLUegKLP-zI), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtVrbT6By4o), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E78kbGq5v0) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UIwqUkSnIc) are all totally random examples of jazz, and even though they are so different, and fall under different sub-genres, AND borrow elements from different styles of other music - they are all obviously jazz.
Quote from: Jompa on May 29, 2013, 12:11:57 PMEveryone knows a jazz piece when they hear one - I think that would be my conclusion.
It's such a freaking wide genre.
I mean, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3xmH6kaddY), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLUegKLP-zI), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtVrbT6By4o), this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E78kbGq5v0) and this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UIwqUkSnIc) are all totally random examples of jazz, and even though they are so different, and fall under different sub-genres, AND borrow elements from different styles of other music - they are all obviously jazz.
Amazing examples, all of them.
It's good to know there's someone else here who appreciates jazz just like me. ilu Jompa
I guess I'll go and try to improvise some jazz - but it never sounds like jazz, just messed up classical. From what your saying, jazz doesn't have any rules to follow, which makes it really hard to get started.
Quote from: FireArrow on May 29, 2013, 12:47:59 PMI guess I'll go and try to improvise some jazz - but it never sounds like jazz, just messed up classical. From what your saying, jazz doesn't have any rules to follow, which makes it really hard to get started.
Then why don't I give you some quick rules then?
Try this:
Play some bossa nova (for instance)- and then try to improvise - something cool about bossa nova is syncopated rythms - try using that.
If you need a bossa nova piece, you could use "Poffin" from Pokémon Diamond & Pearl, which was the first example I posted earlier. It is an extended version, so you can play along without having to restart the video all the time.
The chord progression is easy to join - it's kinda 251-infulenced, using some cool dominant(b9)(b13)-stuff. I think it is in C major, but you'll probably find out anyways. I have an arrangement of it if you think you would need that.
And then go over to something else if you want. You probably wanna wait with bebop, but that's fun too.
Just don't go to far about it - you won't learn anything if you don't know what you are doing - and yes you will learn by exploring new things, but this will only happen if you actually take time to understand what these new things are, instead of just rushing over them and accepting them as "messed-up classical". If some weird dissonance appears; try to understand why it sounded that way, because if you take it inn you
will be able to use it when improvising or just even when composing or arranging. Ahh, I love music.
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on May 29, 2013, 12:20:42 PMAmazing examples, all of them.
It's good to know there's someone else here who appreciates jazz just like me. ilu Jompa
ilu2 you sexy beast<3
@Jompa, I get your point. You are right, it's kinda pointless to describe a music genre as wide as jazz by narrowing it down the way I tried to do. It wouldn't work for classical music either for example (which is way way wider I would say). Even pop music or rock is still too wide to narrow things down (although the instrumentation and length are two aspects which don't vary so much in pop music or rock). Ofc I can go into subgenres and sub-subgenres and try to narrow it down but it's kinda pointless anyways. Like a guy on Youtube said in a video (roughly): While it's comfortable for listeners to sort things into genres it's limiting for the artists or composers.
@FireArrow, I think you misunderstood him. What he was trying to say (I think) is that jazz is very wide and consists of many different subgenres. Basically the point is that you can try to get into specific subgenres and try to play in that style. I suggest you play around with modes and try find nice chords (diatonic or chromatic), melodies and rhythms that makes it feel like jazz to you. For example in C dorian you could try with a Cminor7-Fdominant7 progression or Cminor9 omit 7 - Fdominant7 which are two progressions I often use in dorian mode. You could also try watching some tutorials or read about jazz improvisation to get some ideas. Either way I don't improvise jazzy typically so I'm probably not the best person to be giving tips about it.
Edit: Jompa has some more concrete suggestions.
I have some recordings of me playing the piano:
^please keep in mind: I'm not very good.
First here's a song from the visual novel and anime "Little Busters!"
The song is called "Two Sugars":
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft3.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcR0e38n7tYcEcWzdYZSt5mU1hrhU3GwP2YiGimUb7X-PL_3no5_LA&hash=c8879371229b500c824fb1a69bdf7fe96185ab22) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Kanon%202006/Two%20Sugars/Opptak-3.m4a)
sheet music
^My arrangement for this can be found somewhere at animesheetmusic.proboards.com (http://www.animesheetmusic.proboards.com), which is a sheet music site created by Don (also known as WarioMan98). Not much is happening at the moment because of the pre-summer rush at school, but we will get back to work when we have time! :)
And here is me playing "That Rainy Day" from "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya":
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsharetv.org%2Fimages%2Fguide%2F467160.jpg&hash=399e0d491f0065fe39e46bce27451ce9a6e8fefc) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Kanon%202006/That%20Rainy%20Day/Opptak-4.m4a)
sheet music
^My arrangement for this can also be found somewhere at animesheetmusic.proboards.com (http://www.animesheetmusic.proboards.com)
Hell, I even have a full ensemble arrangement!
Super cool.
So I just found a composition I made that dates back to June 29 2011!!!
I think I wrote it as a sort of "starting town-theme" kinda - y'know, in every adventure game there is a starting town, and they all have such cool music.
Keep in mind that I made these before I knew ANYTHING about chords and stuff, so I am kinda shocked I managed to make this without any knowledge - The chord symbols I put in now, to sorta analyze the composition.
And back then I also made an ensemble remix of it.
Here they are:
"Untitled 9"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Starting%20Town%2029.06.11/Starting%20Town%2029.06.11.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Starting%20Town%2029.06.11/Starting%20Town%2029.06.11.mid)
Full ensemble remix MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Starting%20Town%2029.06.11/Ensemble%20-%20Starting%20Town%2029.06.11.mid)
I wrote a couple of marches. Check them out :D
"March 1"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Original%20Marsj%2024.06.13/Original%20Marsj%20-%20Untitled%20-%2024.06.13.mus)
"March 2"
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Original%20Marsj%2025.06.13/Original%20mars%2025.06.13.mus)
I love marches! Even have a couple of my own. Well, here's my two cents on the matter:
March 1
-For the first strain, the first four notes (parallel 4ths) in the melody seem rather odd in a march-instead of having the root and 5th move by half step, try the root and 3rd. It wont sound as dry.
-The second strain is really nice. The only advice I can give you for this is to maybe offset the melody. It is extremely repetitive, and can get boring after a couple measures. (you kind of do this in the fourth bar, but more might not hurt)
-Over all, your counter melodies are pretty stale. If you look closely, their rhythms are essentially that of the melody. I think you'd have greater results if you tried the opposite, and instead tried to emphasize beats that contradict with the melody.
-Imo, this would sound great without a stinger. :J
-Correct me if I'm wrong, but the form seems to be I-AA-BB-CC-DD. Besides the immediate repeats, do you ever reuse any earlier material?
Thanks a lot for looking at my march!
First strain: I know it might have been silly, but I kinda intentionally chose to go with parallel 4ths instead of going with the 3rd - I always feel like I'm overusing it with the third :/
But I'll have another look into it!
Second strain: Yep, you're right!
I don't reuse earlier stuff, but I have the understanding that most marches don't do that. I know a load of marches and I literally can just name one that goes back to its original theme.
So basically I think its most "march-like" to not reuse the earlier material. :)
Well, true. Often marches seem to just be one idea after another, but returning material separates good marches from great ones. Even if not the entire melody, small riffs or motifs that carry across can help.
Another simple way to do implement this is to use this common form: I-AA-BB-CDCDC, making each iteration of the trio, "C", different, separated by a break strain.
Spoiler
Oh man, if you're looking for some great recordings, go for anything with Frederick Fennell. Two of my favorite CDs are Fennell conducts Sousa, and Hands Across the Sea. Those recordings are among the greatest! So crisp, so perfect!
Quote from: Olimar12345 on June 25, 2013, 05:54:52 PMWell, true. Often marches seem to just be one idea after another, but returning material separates good marches from great ones. Even if not the entire melody, small riffs or motifs that carry across can help.
Another simple way to do implement this is to use this common form: I-AA-BB-CDCDC, making each iteration of the trio, "C", different, separated by a break strain.
That was actually a very good way to put it - it totally convinced me. Thank you!
And I'll check out that Fennell guy!
Simply don't stay completely within a form (or conventions related to the form or type of music) just because it's how the form typically is. Modify the form to suit you, don't modify your music just to suit the form.
Quote from: Ricky on June 26, 2013, 09:44:23 AMSimply don't stay completely within a form (or conventions related to the form or type of music) just because it's how the form typically is. Modify the form to suit you, don't modify your music just to suit the form.
This.
Also, here's a great example:
Sometimes doing something as simple as reusing the intro material can drastically change te quality of a march.
I made a little tune :)
"C Mixolydian Blues March"
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj.mp3)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj/C%20mixolydisk%20blues%20marsj.pdf)
If it's in C Mixolydian why not use the proper key signature (one flat)? Also it seems to be in other keys or modes (and keys) most of the time (even in the part clearly marked as C Mixolydian).
You're not allowed to do that. C major is C major , modes doesn't affect that.
And eventhough I use loads of loose accidentals, it is in C mixolydian all the way. It never modulates.
Okay, it's a bit wrong to say that it's not allowed to write the key signature to match the mode, but the "proper" way to do it, as you put it, is to not do so.
I'm not sure that you've understood me. C Mixolydian consists of C, D, E, F, G, A & Bb. But on the other hand the relative mixolydian to C major (ionian) is G mixolydian which is G, A, B, C, D, E & F. So the key signature for G mixolydian would be no sharps or flats and for C Mixolydian it would be one flat (i.e. Bb).
When a song is in lets say C mixolydian, then there will consequentially appear B flats - flattened sevenths. And which tone is the seventh is of course "measured" out of which tone is the tonic, which of course is C.
Of course, it's hard to get this wrong, and you seem to get this part, but when you start talking about "relative" stuff, then I start to wonder:
You seem to believe that in a mode, it is it's relative ionian that is the tonic. And that is wrong.
Example: C mixolydian's "relative ionian" is F. But F is not the tonic. Not at all. Modes are not used that way (that would simply be progression). C is the tonic in C mixolydian.
And how do we notate C major again? That is, with no sharps or flats.
If you write a song in C major then you can't have a flat in the key signature, because that would imply that F or D is the tonic. <-- This should really be proof enough - C major is all naturals, regardless of mode.
I did understand you, I'm just saying that even though that Bb appears all over the place, it does not affect the key signature, because C major is written with no flats or sharps.
A consequential accidental does not mean that it belongs in the key signature.
You could try to find a sheet of a song in mixolydian (try "Tequila"), you will definitely find that most of them follow what I have said, but perhaps you will find some notated the way you describe (particularly jazz sheets that modulate between these "realtive modes", I have seen tend to do this).
-----
Again, it is not super-illegal to do as you say, but even you've got to admit that it is definitely questionable.
Ok, you seem to have misunderstood me again. I never said anything about that this should be in relative major. I just stated which tones C mixolydian consists of and obviously that the proper key signature is one flat because the 7th is flatted as it's mixolydian. I also stated that in your piece this doesn't seem to be the case which is ofc ok to do but makes things more ambigious.
Doesn't change that you wan't C major songs in mixolydian mode to be written in F major - you don't see anything wrong with that?
If you see a sheet with no sharps/flats and someone ask you to say what the key signature is, you would have to say "Oh, it's either in C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, or B minor". Or if there were three flats you'd have to say "Oh, it's either in Eb major, F minor, G minor, Ab major, Bb major, C minor, or D minor", because you wouldn't know what mode the song would be in before you could listen to it, and define the tonic. That defeats one of the main purposes of key signature -> specifying the tonic.
And in my piece it is mixolydian all the way - it never modulates. You're confusing it with progression.
This piece is amazing! i really like it, and that's quite something considering the fact that I'm someone who doesn't like march music. Excellent job (as usual of course, haha)! Keep it up! By the way, did you get to use these instrumentsf from a computer program (e.g. Finale) or from an actual recording? It's extremely frustrating when (like my Cloud Valse) I'm restricted to certain instruments when I use Noteflight.
Thank you Mobo :) Glad you liked it!
The instrument sound fonts are those from Finale. Why not try it?
I made this too :)
"Freygish Blues"
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Freygish%20Blues/f.mp3)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Freygish%20Blues/%22Freygish%20Blues%22%20for%20Fanfare%20Band.pdf)
Oh, that's awesome Jompa!
Great appliance of the scale to the piece! I'm still struggling to use Finale, I sort-of learned how to add text and stuff, but the adding and deleting notes are kind of frustrating for me. I'm going to practice using the application, now that I see you could select a variety of instruments from it. :)
Thanks a lot :)
I think Finale is something you'll get used to over time, anyone who uses it can agree on that.
Quote from: Jompa on July 27, 2013, 06:26:11 AMDoesn't change that you wan't C major songs in mixolydian mode to be written in F major - you don't see anything wrong with that?
If you see a sheet with no sharps/flats and someone ask you to say what the key signature is, you would have to say "Oh, it's either in C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, or B minor". Or if there were three flats you'd have to say "Oh, it's either in Eb major, F minor, G minor, Ab major, Bb major, C minor, or D minor", because you wouldn't know what mode the song would be in before you could listen to it, and define the tonic. That defeats one of the main purposes of key signature -> specifying the tonic.
And in my piece it is mixolydian all the way - it never modulates. You're confusing it with progression.
I think I understand the way you think but it doesn't make much sense. For instance if you have a key signature of no sharps or flats and you don't see many accidentals it is very likely that it's a western (church) mode (ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian or locrian), more specifically either C Ionian (Major), D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian (Natural Minor), B Locrian. The most common and most likely option is that it's either in C Major or a modified version A Natural Minor. Which of all possible options (even going beyond western (church) modes) depends on the tonic. And the tonic is made more or less clear sooner or later (unless it's pretty atonal music). If C seems to be the tonic, fine, it's probably in C Major, if D on the other hand seems to be the tonic, then fine it's probably D Dorian.
Now you're suggesting that if something is written in D Dorian (obviously no sharps or flats in the scale) you should use the D Major key signature and make all the F and C (when you want) natural instead of letting the key signature handle it. Or another example: it's like writing in A minor but because you want to make sure everyone sees A is the tonic you use the A major key signature which has three sharps and not only have a bunch of accidentals for raising and lowering the 6ths and 7ths but also include three sharps that have to be made natural with accidentals. Why, isn't it easier just letting the key signature handle it and make sure your music puts emphasis on the tonic (to a degree that suits for the purpose)? Why you don't simply want to use one flat in your key signature when C mixolydian has one flat in its' scale is a mystery to me. It's obvious that F Major isn't the scale if you just make sure C is the tonic. Just because modes historically have been less commonly used doesn't mean common sense music theory rules shouldn't apply.
"That defeats one of the main purposes of key signature -> specifying the tonic." Right, because we don't commonly use two different modes with the same notes already and don't have to identify which of the two modes (ionian or aeolian) it is. Also if you specify the tonic by using the major key signature for the same tonic, for instance C as tonic using the key signature of C Major you still have to identify the mode depending on all the accidentals that happen to appear. So it could be C Major, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C Mixolydian, C Aeolian or C Locrian (not to mention countless other scales and modes).
Anyways, fine, I guess it's more decorative chromaticism in your piece then rather than chromaticism for the purpose of modulation and parts written in other keys.
Quote from: Ricky on July 27, 2013, 12:22:27 PMI think I understand the way you think but it doesn't make much sense. For instance if you have a key signature of no sharps or flats and you don't see many accidentals it is very likely that it's a western (church) mode (ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian or locrian), more specifically either C Ionian (Major), D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian (Natural Minor), B Locrian. The most common and most likely option is that it's either in C Major or a modified version A Natural Minor. Which of all possible options (even going beyond western (church) modes) depends on the tonic. And the tonic is made more or less clear sooner or later (unless it's pretty atonal music). If C seems to be the tonic, fine, it's probably in C Major, if D on the other hand seems to be the tonic, then fine it's probably D Dorian.
My point is that you are not allowed to "adjust" the key signature after the mode.
Of course, this whole discussion bases on that you don't agree, so I don't know what to say to convince you, but there's no way you are going to convince me either when you are just summarizing what I've already said, only adding your support to it.
Quote from: Ricky on July 27, 2013, 12:22:27 PMNow you're suggesting that if something is written in D Dorian (obviously no sharps or flats in the scale) you should use the D Major key signature and make all the F and C (when you want) natural instead of letting the key signature handle it. Or another example: it's like writing in A minor but because you want to make sure everyone sees A is the tonic you use the A major key signature which has three sharps and not only have a bunch of accidentals for raising and lowering the 6ths and 7ths but also include three sharps that have to be made natural with accidentals.
You're putting words in my mouth.
D dorian is minor, right? So you shouldn't use D major, that's crazy.
Your entire argument for this doesn't work, as A minor also is minor, and therefore it shouldn't be notated A minor.
QuoteWhy, isn't it easier just letting the key signature handle it and make sure your music puts emphasis on the tonic (to a degree that suits for the purpose)? Why you don't simply want to use one flat in your key signature when C mixolydian has one flat in its' scale is a mystery to me. It's obvious that F Major isn't the scale if you just make sure C is the tonic. Just because modes historically have been less commonly used doesn't mean common sense music theory rules shouldn't apply.
Why are you telling me, I didn't make the rules. Neither did you btw, so I don't get where you even have this from in the first place?
Also I disagree with your statement about common sense music theory no applying - again, I didn't make the rules, so don't rant me about this, but major (ionian, lydian, mixolydian) should be notated major, and minor (dorian, phrygian, aeolian, locrian) should be notated minor - modes doesn't affect that - they shouldn't and they don't, that's music theory for ya.
Quote from: Ricky on July 27, 2013, 12:22:27 PM"That defeats one of the main purposes of key signature -> specifying the tonic." Right, because we don't commonly use two different modes with the same notes already and don't have to identify which of the two modes (ionian or aeolian) it is. Also if you specify the tonic by using the major key signature for the same tonic, for instance C as tonic using the key signature of C Major you still have to identify the mode depending on all the accidentals that happen to appear. So it could be C Major, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C Mixolydian, C Aeolian or C Locrian (not to mention countless other scales and modes).
And this is exactly the same as your second paragraph. I don't believe that, I'm not that stupid - actually, I
am following music theory.
Quote(not to mention countless other scales and modes)
Interesting.
So let's take my newest composition "Freygish Blues". It is in G Phrygian Dominant (or rather
builds on that scale). If G major doesn't apply, as you say - what key signature would, hm?
QuoteAnyways, fine, I guess it's more decorative chromaticism in your piece then rather than chromaticism for the purpose of modulation and parts written in other keys.
Or simply going out of key every now and then, that's allowed too. It is just progression - it wouldn't really be much of a piece without it.
No, dorian is not minor. It's a "minor" mode but it's a whole different mode. Dorian should be notated as dorian, not as aeolian. Your concept of modes makes no sense. Let me put it this way, a scale (probably not the proper word, maybe scale group would be more proper) is a formula of certain intervals, but within a scale you can switch the tonic so the order of the intervals in the formula changes which creates a mode. The most basic example is the western diatonic scale has seven steps but their order can be changed creating different modes (ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aoelian & locrian). Ofc a similiar thing can be made with for example the melodic minor, you can change the starting note so that the scale starts on another step and this creates another mode. Ofc, you can change which notes (or frequencies to be more scientific) are to be included, for example if you change from C Major to A major you don't have all of the same notes although the basic interval formula is the same. Same for other modes, obviously G Mixolydian doesn't have exactly the same tones as E mixolydian. But on the other hand the tones in G Mixolydian are the same as in C Major and the tones in E mixolydian are the same as the tones in A major. Now here's the thing, C major and G mixolydian (just like A Major and E mixolydian) SHOULD (and it is absolutely proper) have the same key signature, i.e. when written down on sheet music they should have the same amount of sharps and flats which in this case is none. They have the same tones, no tone is flatted, no tone is sharped.
The divide into "major", "minor" or "diminished" mode is propably a matter of the chord on the tonic. That however doesn't mean that you can treat lydian and mixolydian as it were ionian (major) or phrygian and dorian as it aeolian (minor) cause it's not the same. Lydian is not pure major or whatever you want to call it, it's pure lydian, sure it's just a sharp fourth that makes any difference but the effect is quite different. Same goes for any other of the modes. Of course you can break the rule, the obvious example is if you go to a huge extent inbetween modes, then it's probably best to decide one key signature for one scale and use accidentals for the other modes. But in your case you clearly want to refer to it as C Mixolydian therefore it only makes perfect sense to use the right key signature. The tones in the C Mixolydian key signature as the same as in D Aeolian, E Locrian, F Ionian etc., all they have in common is one flat on B. Thus the key signature for C Mixolydian is no sharps and one flat (on B). No flats or sharps or is obviously the completely wrong key signature as it makes it looks like it's C Ionian due to the key signature and C being the tonic.
"It is in G Phrygian Dominant (or rather builds on that scale). If G major doesn't apply, as you say - what key signature would, hm?" Well, the tones in the scale (if I understood it right): G, Ab, B, C, D, Eb, F so with "G Major" you have to flat the F# to F natural, A to Ab and E to Eb. If you would use the "C Minor" key siganture you would only need to raise the Bb to B. Simplier to say the least. In Sibelius (dunno if you can do that in Finale but whatever) you can create custom key signatures and it would suit to make the A and E flatted. Btw, the phrygian dominant seems to be a mode on the (lets call it) harmonic minor scale group, the same interval formula but with different starting points. G Phrygian Dominant is relative to C Harmonic Minor (same tones, different tonics).
Now if you don't understand this I don't know what can make you understand this relatively simple concept. In summary every mode is unique and should be treated like a unique mode and not merely as "major" or "minor" (what the klobb would the whole tone scale be for instance then? "augmented"?). Ofc modes and scale groups can be mixed in many different ways in compositions if desired but when basing a composition on a specific mode please write as it should be written for that mode (you wouldn't write your C's in a C major scale as D double flats unless it's a very specific case, the same way you don't use a C major key signature for a piece in C Mixolydian and just flat the B's, I don't know, for fun?). Let the key signature deal with it for your and everyone else's enjoyment (so these kind of situations don't have to happen) and don't tell me mixolydian is major, please.
How is dorian not minor? How is mixolydian not major? They've got the right thirds for it - the tonic chord is right for it too.
There's no talking out of that this is only your personal opinion (even though you call it proper) - you only prove this with "oh, it's simpler that way, less accidentals", but in the end it's not up to you.
QuoteWell, the tones in the scale (if I understood it right): G, Ab, B, C, D, Eb, F so with "G Major" you have to flat the F# to F natural, A to Ab and E to Eb. If you would use the "C Minor" key siganture you would only need to raise the Bb to B. Simplier to say the least.
Wrong, to say the least.
I know you disagree but G Phrygian Dominant is major - there is a major third, the tonic chord is G major - if you say anything against that I really don't get how you can have any feel of a tonic at all. Back to point; "If you use C minor it will be better" <-- Listen to yourself. You are literally stating that one is supposed to use the wrong key signature ONLY to make some accidentals disappear.
Well what are you left with then; a song in G major notated in the C minor key - I mean, not only do you have accidentals not supposed to be in G major (
even though it is phrygian dominant), but even the
MAJOR THIRD is flattened!!
Using C minor key for a song in G Phrygian Dominant is totally undefendable.
There aren't just two scales/modes (for instance mixolydian is not a major (ioninan scale), dorian is not a minor (aeolian) scale. Mixolydian is mixolydian, dorian is dorian) or whatever you want to call them, there are countless. You can but it's stupid to use the same "formula" for all of them. It makes no sense like I said and don't tell me I'm wrong for doing it the more correct way. Either way stick to your unlogical way of thinking of modes if you are so hard to convince with simple logic (which has happened in more than one discussion). You like to take things out of context and respond only to a part of it and come up with an excuse why you're right even though you're very wrong. At least you're not the only one, there's a guy on another forum I'm member of which acts about the same way in some discussions. Either way you should learn more about modes and scales.
Ok... Phrygian Dominant is great in all, but it's not worth ripping each others eyes out for.
Either way, want to see more people with my viewpoint or whatever (not saying that it's evidence but music theory isn't really scientific anyways):
http://www.slowplayers.org/SCTLS/modes.htm
http://music.stackexchange.com/questions/930/key-signature-for-writing-in-modes-other-than-major-and-minor
http://tunedb.woodenflute.com/tunedb/how_to_modes.html
http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/music-theory/quick-tip-i-d-p-l-m-a-key-signature-guide/
http://www.standingstones.com/modeharm.html
http://www.mdc.edu/kendall/mtd/Online_Forms/Lab_Online/MHL_Modes_Church.pdf
And so on.
If I were to start doing what you are doing, then I wouldn't be able to play music with other people -.- Nor would I be able to make music for others.
You stated that I'm not alone, and no, I'm not alone - I have the majority of the musical world on my side, Ricky - because your only argument is about your personal preference, and most people choose music theory over that.
Those sites aren't much proof, they are just a way to explain the theory, after all.
Quote from: Jompa on July 28, 2013, 01:42:31 AMIf I were to start doing what you are doing, then I wouldn't be able to play music with other people -.- Nor would I be able to make music for others.
You stated that I'm not alone, and no, I'm not alone - I have the majority of the musical world on my side, Ricky - because your only argument is about your personal preference, and most people choose music theory over that.
Those sites aren't much proof, they are just a way to explain the theory, after all.
See, taking things out of context and coming up with your own (wrong) interpretation. "You stated that I'm not alone, and no, I'm not alone - I have the majority of the musical world on my side" I've never said I've discussed this topic with someone else, I said I've met someone on another forum who acts the same way as you in discussions. I've never said I've discussed any music with that person, in fact the discussions were about more serious issues and not related to music AT ALL. So please before you start taking things out of context read what I wrote and think about it twice if you have to.
"If I were to start doing what you are doing, then I wouldn't be able to play music with other people -.- Nor would I be able to make music for others." Do what, claim that not all music is written in ionian or a modified aeolian? Most music (at least after reneissance) is in fact written in ionian or a modified aeolian (basically going inbetween natural, harmonic and melodic minor). So in most cases you would have two choices (once you find which tones seems to be the ones used), either major or minor. But, you have to understand that not all music is major or minor. Some is chromatic or even "atonal", some is polytonal, some is in whole tone scale, some is octatonic, some is even using microtonal intervals and the most obvious one, some is modal, in many cases a western church mode other than ionian or aoelian, such as dorian, lydian or mixolydian. So by confirming to the ionian or modified aeolian scales you surely you would be able to "able to play music with other people and "be able to make music for others". But obviously you don't seem to want to stay ionian or modified aeolian which is ofc fine but I'm just saying your breaking of music theory seems to suggest something else. Basically in the C Mixolydian piece you suggest by the key signature and emphasis on C as tonic that it's in C ionian, maybe while you're at it make sure to flat all the B's to make things clearer.
"because your only argument is about your personal preference, and most people choose music theory over that." I'm sorry but you got it wrong, I'm the one choosing music theory rules, you're the one with an odd personal preference. And who the klobb is "most people"? Most people who write music do it in ionian or modified aeolian. Does that mean that you're in fact not allowed to write a piece in for instance dorian or lets say hindu scale (just for the sake of argument) and make sure the key signature explicitly shows (together with the tonic) that it's this mode or that AND NOT simply major (ionian) or minor (aeolian)?
"Those sites aren't much proof, they are just a way to explain the theory, after all." What is a proof in this context? Where is your proof of your odd conception of modes/scales/key signature use? Should we ask a musicologist (I know one I can probably ask)?
Wow that's a load of text with no progress at all -.-
I don't care about ionian, I care about major - you've been confused about this for some posts now.
What's the point anyway; if I show you a sheet you'll just call it wrong.
When it comes down to it, you don't want to accept that the way you think is the simplest (at least in accordance with the church modes) is not the one widely accepted in the world, and I don't want to accept you purely shooting down my and the majority of actively arranging musicians' reasoning (you know, that whole part about specifying the tonic. That's some really important stuff you know).
Well, asked the musicologist I've been thinking about and hopefully he will respond soon (if he's not too busy). Either way I think of modes/scales as that, not modifications of two basic formulas (you could think of it as modificaton of the chromatic scale and thus all scales within our western music system are "chromatic" modes). And thanks for ignoring most of what I said once again, makes writing replies trying to explain such basic things with as much common sense as possible so much fun (because common sense is so hard to grasp). If you didn't notice (which in some previous cases you haven't), the previous sentence was sarcastic.
I didn't reply to most of it because most of it is totally basic (even I have written some of those things).
I have an argument though:
Your way barely even works! Just look at how you solved the Phrygian Dominant problem..
Quote from: Jompa on July 28, 2013, 04:35:26 AMI have an argument though:
Your way barely even works! Just look at how you solved the Phrygian Dominant problem..
I solved it the way of not overcomplicating stuff by throwing one completely unnecessary sharp (F#) and having to flat the A instead of just using the C minor key signature and raise the Bb to B. Simplier, clearer, cleaner, more logical. And the other option was using a custom key signature which isn't so hard to do (at least not on paper).
QuoteSimplier, clearer, cleaner, more logical.
Well you end up with the tonic chord being with accidentals - even if I were to support your view, I would still think that having to naturalize the major third is just totally wrong.
Ok, use Ab and Eb in the key signature. Problem solved. All the right tones are there without any accidentals, just like using one flat (Bb) key signature does when writing in C Mixolydian.
So when it comes down to it, this discussion is about why we use key signatures?
And I believe one has to use either major or minor out of what the tonic is, and wether the third is major or minor.
And you believe that one can use anything (even customized) as long as it is for the purpose of getting rid of accidentals.
Am I right?
Quote from: Jompa on July 28, 2013, 05:48:29 AMSo when it comes down to it, this discussion is about why we use key signatures?
Or rather how they are used.
Quote from: Jompa on July 28, 2013, 05:48:29 AMAnd I believe one has to use either major or minor out of what the tonic is, and wether the third is major or minor.
And you believe that one can use anything (even customized) as long as it is for the purpose of getting rid of accidentals.
Am I right?
If you believe it's only for minor or major then you should use no key signature (no sharps, no flats) for every piece that isn't major or minor, including modal ones. What you're saying is that it's better to use no key signature to notate something for instance in C locrian where you have quite a few flats.
What I'm saying is that key signatures should be used to make things clearer, especially when intending to do so by explicitly including the complete key (as in C Mixolydian). It's not like you would for instance use a key signature of no sharps or flats to notate a piece in A major and mark all the accidentals (which actually belong to the scale by default) by hand yet you treat the the non aeolian and non ionian modes that way. The solution is simple, use the right key signature to signify which of the tones should be flatted or sharped and make sure your intended tonic functions as a tonic.
Either way, my message to the musicologist and his response:
"Anyways, I've got an unrelated question/topic I hope you can explain to me. Basically I've been having a discussion about modes and key signatures on a forum with another forum member. The thing is that he composed a piece which he called "C Mixolydian Blues March" and what got my main attention was that he was using the key siganture of no flats and no sharps although C Mixolydian has the tones of C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb and thus should in my opinion using what I think is common sense music theory rules use the key sigature of one flat. He however claims that the key signature of no sharps and flats is required to make sure it shows that C is the tonic, basically using C major but modifying by throwing in redundant accidentals because he thinks that all scales/modes that have a major chord on the tonic should be treated as "major", same principle for "minor" scales/modes (thus treating for example D Dorian as D minor but raising the 6th throwing in extra naturals instead of letting the key signature handle it). Either way his way of thinking doesn't make much sense to me as the key signature typically tells which tones the piece will mostly consist of and the tonic of the piece then is made more or less clear and can often be found (unless it's for example moving inbetween modes alot, polytonal, modulating alot or simply being atonal and so on, then the key signature maybe isn't so helpful). So, in summary if a piece isn't major or minor but in fact is modal which of the two approaches to the key signature is more correct (when looking at it from a theoretical point of view)?"
"Now as to the other issue: not having access to the comments on the other forum, my remarks can only be about what you have written. I think part of the confusion may come from the fact that key signatures were developed for and have a function only within the tonal system. In a modal system, their use, while practical, is a bit problematic. Yes, C mixolydian should have a key signature of one flat, but it's not actually a 'key', but a mode. Our system of notation is highly developed and incredibly useful, but it has certain quirks because of its history. For example, if you are writing whole-tone music the choice of what accidentals to employ is completely arbitrary because the notation was developed specifically for tonal, not whole-tone, music.
Similarly, some music written in the transition between the modal and tonal systems looks odd to us because it uses the 'wrong' key signature and even seems to end on the 'wrong' harmony. This is a big topic and there is an excellent discussion of it in the Journal of the American Musicological Society, vol. 51, no. 2, Summer 1998: "Modal Theory, Church Keys, and the Sonata at the End of the Seventeenth Century", by Gregory Barnett."
Quote from: Ricky on July 28, 2013, 08:57:13 AMOr rather how they are used.
Yeah, sorry I said wrong.
QuoteIf you believe it's only for minor or major then you should use no key signature (no sharps, no flats) for every piece that isn't major or minor, including modal ones. What you're saying is that it's better to use no key signature to notate something for instance in C locrian where you have quite a few flats.
Nope. This is what I said:
"And I believe one has to use either major or minor out of what the
tonic is, and wether the
third is major or minor".
C'mon, you know this, you even wrote it to the musicologist.
Quotekey signatures should be used to make things clearer, especially when intending to do so by explicitly including the complete key (as in C Mixolydian).
I disagree with this^ I don't believe key signatures are meant to make things clearer - but they are a convention in pieces that are in ionian or aeolian, basically, as they definitely make things clearer in those cases. Even after I've read the musicologist's response, I disagree.
I guess we can conclude with that.
Fine lets end it there, it's another of those discussions that could go on forever as none of the involved in it will change their mind.
Alright, as for the music itself it sounds pretty good. I especially like the constrasts between the lower and higher parts of the ensemble that appear and it seems more thematically integrated (basically good structure and quite good balance between repeition and variation) than your previous march.
Glad you think so actually, as this song was more of an experiment to try to achieve just that:)
Thanks
I made a short little piano jingle, which I think turned out good. I'm thinking about adapting it into a Big Band piece, but I don't know if I'll make it bossa or swing yet :P
"Untitled (Piano F-dur 14.09.13)"
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13.pdf)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13/Piano%20F-dur%2014.09.13.mid)
Sounds like something straight out of D/P/P. :)
You mean Amity Square, right? :)
And you're right, I noticed too actually (when I was finished with the melody), they are very similar (mainly at the beginning of the melody) (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/amity%20comparison.mus).
They both mainly base themselves on the pentatonic scale, the melody starts on the major seventh, and the chord progressions in their B-parts both start on the subdominant (and sorta descend quite similarly). Also, they both use (or rather, depend on) the whole "tonica as a bi-dominant to subdominant"-effect relatively often, making the pieces quite similar.
Ah, no. I just meant you could of put it in that game and it would of fit right in. XD
ahaha really?:P that's kinda cool
Me and a classmate made a little theme, and we tried giving it some variation :P here:
MP3 - The Circus Song (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/sirkussangen%20-%20victor%20og%20jm/sirkussangen.mp3)
I made a "piano draft" of a concert band song I'm writing, so I guess I'll just post it here :3
"March for World Peace and Love Nice for Help" <-- Don't ask about the title, I wasn't the one who came up with it.
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/March%20for%20World%20Peace%20and%20Love%20Nice%20for%20Help/March%20for%20world%20peace%20and%20love%20nice%20for%20help.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/March%20for%20World%20Peace%20and%20Love%20Nice%20for%20Help/mfwpalnfh.mp3)
Been a while since I made a little blues jingle thing for fun:
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Blues%20for%20wind%20ensemble/Blues%20for%20wind%20ensemble.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Blues%20for%20wind%20ensemble/Blues%20for%20wind%20ensemble.mp3)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Blues%20for%20wind%20ensemble/Blues%20for%20wind%20ensemble.mid)
I made a string quartet.
These days all we do in music specialization class is compose, and our current assignment is "make a simple motive from the notes A, C# & G# and use it to write a 16 measures long AABA-form piece for string quartet, with a couple of intro measures". And I did that in one hour. And because the rest of the class won't be finished with this for like a month or so, I got the extra-assignment "pretend that the AABA you already wrote is only A, and use that to write a new AABA string quartet piece where the B-part is in the variant minor and also different from the A-parts". And I just finished that too, now that I got home. And I'm pretty happy with it considering I don't know anything at all about this kinda classical music, and also considering I wrote it over the course of half a school day + an hour at home.
I figured I'd post it here, for everyone to laugh at n'stuff.
"String Quartet in A-major No. 2"
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Strykekvartett%20i%20A-dur%20No.%202/Strykekvartett%20i%20A-dur%20No.%202%20-%20paralelle%20terser%20mania.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Strykekvartett%20i%20A-dur%20No.%202/strykekvartett%20A-dur%202.mp3)
^It's actually really good!
Thanks a lot!
Just to critique myself here: I think I was being a bit too "crazy" for it's own good with it. I'm not saying that because of some musical rules or anything, but from a listener's perspective there really is a bit to much information to take inn - I feel like I didn't do a good enough job to properly establish the motive before making all the variations and going crazy with the B-part. I think it would be better if I just repeated the first A-part instead of coming with a new A-part, and then just doing something out of the second repeat house to go over to B, and doing a crazier (and maybe longer) A-part at the end, kinda like the second A-part.
But even so, I don't think I'll do anything about it now - I'll just learn from it instead.
I made this short piece in music specialization class today: (I did it in NotePad, so you can imagine the limitations)
[Vinter] (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Tentamen%20v%C3%A5ren%202014.mus) - for 2 clarinets & string quartet
Seriously, you're amazing, those melodies flow so nicely through each other (um... I don't know how to word that :3). Don't worry about overloading with information, your stuff is pretty tame compared to a lot of contrapuntal stuff out there.
Thank you!
Today I was bored after finishing early on midterms, so I passed the time before we had to turn it inn writing a string quartet.
I had no means of listening to it, and I also used NotePad, so I'm blaming any lack of quality on that.
So despite that^, as well as being really short and simple, I think it turned out kinda good.
"Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten" ("The Norwegian Midterm String Quartet"):
MUS (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten.mus)
MIDI (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten.mid)
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Norsktentamenstrykekvartetten.pdf)
I really like all of your compositions! I'm not well acquainted with a string quartet, but your compositions sound really nice!
I'm not either really:P Thanks
When I came home from school today there was only one thing on my mind: I wanted to make a march.
I've been working on it for 6 hours non-stop now, and I'm finally finished.
This is more of a stand-tune than an actual march, but I think that counts as a march too.
"Aprilsmarsj" - for marching band
PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Aprilsmarsj%20-%20trombone%20feature%20for%20korps/Aprilsmarsj.pdf)
MP3 (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/75726060/Egne%20saker/Aprilsmarsj%20-%20trombone%20feature%20for%20korps/Aprilsmarsj.mp3)
If you want to see the MUS or the MIDI just change the url's :)
Interesting second strain you have there. You are very kind to your trombones! (Thank you! xD). Nice job overall. Though, as weird as this may sound, I think this would better suit a concert band, rather than a marching band. But that's just my opinion. Here are a few comments I have:
-That trombone solo(then soli) in the first strain seems to hang on and around that Eb for a while.
-Only one horn part? Its common for even marching bands to split that into two-just a suggestion. ^^
-I would specify the transposition for your clarinets, horn, and trumpets on page 1.
-I'd remove "solo" from tbn, and change "Bass Trombone/Tuba" to "Basses". (You actually do this for the rest of the piece d:)
-Might I suggest switching some of those trumpets over to cornet? You seem to have plenty
-For the muted section, be sure to specify which kind of mute. Also, "open" is another way to indicate no mute. It is more commonly seen.
Yes, thank you! Everything you say makes a lot of sense, and I'll do a second version at some point! Thanks!:)