I've been thinking on and off about this. What if there was a thread with all the games's soundtracks, with each one crossed off if it had been arranged already? Of course this would be a pain and a huge project to do, but I feel bad when someone arranges a song that has already been done, plus, sometimes its hard to use the search button since you dont always know where to look and its easy to miss something. I also think it would motivate people if they see which songs have already been done and that they're that much closer to finishing the whole soundtrack. It would format sort of like an Arrangement Project, with the entire soundtrack laid out in one place.
Or we could just vote and stack up arrangement projects for the games people have the most interest in, basically doing this but one at a time
I like the idea Bubbles, and the info is definitely out there. I'll help compile if you need it.
I don't see how this is necessary, on top of the "Fulfilled Requests" subforum.
Game soundtrack lists are available online for those who know where to look. Those can rather easily be compared to the list of sheets on the main page. Just look at the list of songs uploaded for that game, and compare to the game's soundtrack. Easy as that.
As for sheets that exist on the forums, but not the main page, well THAT is a chore to keep updated. Keep in mind that files don't stay on their hosting servers forever. If a sheet doesn't make it to the main site, it will get lost in the forums and eventually deleted. Thus, it might be checked off as "done", but it may be lost to time unless uploaded to the main site. For instance, look up the fate of the "Jungle Japes" sheet from SSBM. It was requested, arranged, and the thread moved to "Fulfilled Requests". Then, the arranger stopped visiting NSM, and the file was removed from MediaFire. The arranger's thread was not updated, not posted in and thus not noticed. The sheet eventually vanished in silence. Technically arranged and ready, in reality lost and gone. The point I'm trying to make, is: Unless a sheet is uploaded to the main site, it might just as well not exist on NSM. It doesn't matter if the song is already done, if nobody bothers to archive it properly.
And once uploaded, then no problem, as stated above. Compare the official soundtrack to the existing songs made for that game.
So very relevant:
Quote from: Shadoninja on December 29, 2012, 08:06:21 PMI'm starting to think that forums are not the best place to host requests.
The FtR website (http://nsmproject.site40.net/index.php) is a great base model for what I'd like to see.
I'd like to see requests in a completely sortable list. One where you can sort alphabetically by Console, Game, or Song and be able to filter out consoles. If one just wanted to see requests for SNES and DS they should be able to filter the other consoles out.
Requests, Submissions, In-Progress, and Sheets on the site would all be put into a single database. This would be done in such a way that if there's an active request and someone submits a song or it gets accepted and put on the site, that request is automatically fulfilled. Also, if someone requests a song that is already on the site it won't be added and the user will be notified as such.
If we can get a working database, the submission process could be made easier. Instead of having to copy and paste from your arrangement thread, you can press a button and zip that arrangement over to the submissions page.
Each request will listed individually as a single song, no more "multiple songs" listings. This will make it easier to see what has already been requested. It won't be impossible to request multiple songs, however. There could be a form that one can fill out. There would be a button to add more forms. then one just selects the console from a dropdown, put in the title of the game and song, and insert or be able to search for the youtube link. If they're all from the same game there would be a checkbox that would automatically fill the console and game boxes. There would be a limit of say 5 or so.
Each game will have it's own page with relevant information such as the developer(s), publisher(s), release dates, and composers and arrangers. There would also be the official soundtrack list if it has one with alternate titles and a youtube link for ease of use. There could be a request button on the songs with a limit to prevent spamming. The page would also list active requests, submitted sheets, in-progress, and all of the songs that are on the site.
Arrangers will be able to click a button to claim a song and then it will be displayed on their profile or some related page so that they can easily see all of the songs they should be working on.
Cobra, I know what you're saying about lost sheets. If someone is motivated enough to constantly update it (Im willing to volunteer) than that person would have to keep track of sheets that were abandoned. This kind of leads into what Shado said
Shado, thats a better idea and hopefully will eventually happen. In this database, when someone uploads the files will they be uploaded there or will it continue to be like it is now with each person using their individual Dropbox/Mediafire/whatever with the risk of them dissapearing? Whenever the new site comes or you decide you make this, we could switch over to that. For now we could use this idea as a replacement until its upgraded to yours
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on December 30, 2012, 06:48:24 PMShado, thats a better idea and hopefully will eventually happen. In this database, when someone uploads the files will they be uploaded there or will it continue to be like it is now with each person using their individual Dropbox/Mediafire/whatever with the risk of them dissapearing? Whenever the new site comes or you decide you make this, we could switch over to that. For now we could use this idea as a replacement until its upgraded to yours
Ideally, when they're in the submission phase they're in Dropbox. Maybe somehow when they get accepted they will be uploaded to the site automatically.
In one single person's dropbox or everyone's individual one like we have now?
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on December 30, 2012, 10:58:16 PMIn one single person's dropbox or everyone's individual one like we have now?
Individual
Quote from: Cobraroll on December 30, 2012, 03:34:41 PMThe point I'm trying to make, is: Unless a sheet is uploaded to the main site, it might just as well not exist on NSM.
We could always make a policy that arrangers have to submit requests fulfilled requests first.... maybe?
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on December 30, 2012, 12:28:25 PMOr we could just vote and stack up arrangement projects for the games people have the most interest in, basically doing this but one at a time
Personally, I think the arrangement projects should have been chosen with polls, to ensure popularity and motivation.
Quote from: Shadoninja on December 30, 2012, 06:21:33 PMSo very relevant:
That would mostly be the plan, yes. Essentially the idea is to get rid of the forum requests/submissions altogether and get the whole process integrated to the main site.
I think the "problem" is rather complex, but it can be described as a pyramid:
Only a fraction of game songs are ever requested.
Only a fraction of requested songs are ever claimed by an arranger.
Only a fraction of claimed songs are ever finished as an arrangement.
Only a fraction of the finished arrangements are ever put up for submission, given feedback and polished to proper standards.
Only a fraction of the ready-to-be-submitted arrangements are ever uploaded to the main site.
Doing something about this requires a level of effort that goes beyond the hobby basis we're doing things on. As it stands, what we currently do is the best we can do. If we try to professionalize this site further, it'll require more time and more work than we can maintain over time. We're hard pressed between quality and quantity, currently leaning towards the "quality" side, with strict guidelines for when a sheet is ready for submission. This leads to a greater workload on the uploaders, and fewer updates. On the other hand, those few arrangements we upload are of very high quality.
Too bad so much work is lost in the process, but in order to preserve that, we'll either all have to work harder (this is where "life" gets in the way for most of us) or lower the bar for quality.
Quote from: Jamaha on December 31, 2012, 01:58:36 AMThat would mostly be the plan, yes. Essentially the idea is to get rid of the forum requests/submissions altogether and get the whole process integrated to the main site.
http://ichigos.com/submit
Something like this? Also, regarding requests, again... (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=1789.msg185255#msg185255)
Personally, I think these are excellent solutions that could solve a ton of problems. More opinions?
Quote from: Cobraroll on December 31, 2012, 04:57:17 AMI think the "problem" is rather complex, but it can be described as a pyramid:
Only a fraction of game songs are ever requested.
Only a fraction of requested songs are ever claimed by an arranger.
Only a fraction of claimed songs are ever finished as an arrangement.
Only a fraction of the finished arrangements are ever put up for submission, given feedback and polished to proper standards.
Only a fraction of the ready-to-be-submitted arrangements are ever uploaded to the main site.
Doing something about this requires a level of effort that goes beyond the hobby basis we're doing things on. As it stands, what we currently do is the best we can do. If we try to professionalize this site further, it'll require more time and more work than we can maintain over time. We're hard pressed between quality and quantity, currently leaning towards the "quality" side, with strict guidelines for when a sheet is ready for submission. This leads to a greater workload on the uploaders, and fewer updates. On the other hand, those few arrangements we upload are of very high quality.
Too bad so much work is lost in the process, but in order to preserve that, we'll either all have to work harder (this is where "life" gets in the way for most of us) or lower the bar for quality.
Even though your right about the fractions of sheets that actually officially get on the site, there is still as of right now 2162 sheets on the site (though they arent all standard format) and countless others waiting for the submissons.
I thought of an easier way to do this. Instead of having all of the games' soundtracks with the completed ones crossed off, we could just collect all of the names of the completed sheets in one place, organized by games. If you want to request/arrange a song, you would check there to make sure its not already done before doing so, without having to look through an entire soundtrack list
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on December 31, 2012, 01:17:51 PMI thought of an easier way to do this. Instead of having all of the games' soundtracks with the completed ones crossed off, we could just collect all of the names of the completed sheets in one place, organized by games. If you want to request/arrange a song, you would check there to make sure its not already done before doing so, without having to look through an entire soundtrack list
But that list could only have arrangements which are already on site because of the aforementioned reasons.
And again, what if someone has already arranged a song on the forums? The song would appear as undone, even if it has already been arranged. And if we cross off that song and the arrangement is lost in the forums, then we would have to "uncross" it again?
I could only see this working if we removed all the submissions topics and if each arrangement was submitted to site like this (http://ichigos.com/submit), but with a previous quality analysis, of course.
Too early for a poll?
Again, this would only be temporary until Shado's thing happens, so we dont have to worry about it being perfect. We could colllect all the titles of the completed sheets in one place, then if we notice that one of the sheet shas dissapeared, we take it off the list to allow people to arrange it again. Alternatively, we could have each arranger post the list of their songs that they arranged in the topic or wherever this would be held. Since only active people would post their songs, the inactive ones most likely have unusable sheets that need to be rearranged
In that case, I agree.
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on December 31, 2012, 01:17:51 PMEven though your right about the fractions of sheets that actually officially get on the site, there is still as of right now 2162 sheets on the site (though they arent all standard format) and countless others waiting for the submissons.
I might have been babbling earlier (and might still do, it's 1 AM). Allow me to rephrase it: We have many hundreds of songs arranged, but still there is a vast amount of tracks out there, and what we currently have is a drop in the ocean, so to speak. We have lots and lots of sheets, but compared to the world of games there is out there, trying to compile a list of the stuff we don't have would be futile work.
Besides, most people prefer to arrange sheets from games they have played themselves. There are many games with great music, but a relatively small fanbase. Many of the games in our "Others" section on site have extensive soundtracks, from which only a couple of songs are arranged because the arranger happened to like them. Should we list soundtracks for every game with an arrangement on site? Or only the big titles?
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on December 31, 2012, 01:17:51 PMI thought of an easier way to do this. Instead of having all of the games' soundtracks with the completed ones crossed off, we could just collect all of the names of the completed sheets in one place, organized by games. If you want to request/arrange a song, you would check there to make sure its not already done before doing so, without having to look through an entire soundtrack list
That list would be the main site. It does
exactly what you're looking for, except it doesn't take into account sheets that are not uploaded yet.
As for those, the finished yet un-uploaded sheets that lie all over the forum, it's a little complicated. Legally (and ethically), a sheet can't be uploaded to the site without the arranger's consent. Thus, an arranger would have to submit his own sheets for uploading, and he himself would have to correct any errors made, unless he specifically states he allows others to correct him.
This is the bottleneck of the process: Either, it requires the arranger to visit and work periodically, posting in time to get his sheet in the submission thread before it closes for submissions, or, if he gives his consent that others may polish the sheets for him, other users will have to work on and host arrangements other people have made. This is more work than the average user is willing to do. People prefer to work on arrangements on their own, instead of committing time to do fine work for others.
The most effective solution, yet work-demanding for a few people (the uploaders) would be having really frequent updates, with constant intervals and good consistency. Issues like "Has this song been arranged yet?" wouldn't arise if the time between finished arrangement and uploaded arrangement was cut significantly. Before more people could consider arranging, it would be on site for everybody to see. With updates once a week for half a year or more, we'd clear out the submission threads in no time.
Let me also suggest a new aspect to the uploading process: Planning ahead. Every week, one of the uploaders should have the responsibility for that week's update. Let the uploaders gather and decide which uploader(s) has the responsibility for which weeks. Put up a schedule, with possibilities of uploaders swapping weeks or reserving against them. Several uploaders could work together on one update, but only one would have the main responsibility of getting stuff up. This schedule should ideally have things planned out at least five weeks ahead at any time. Hopefully, it would allow for some consistency of uploads.
If there is a mod-only subforum, please give this idea some consideration there. If there isn't one, make one. Communication between mods and uploaders helps the forum thrive, and provides a backup if a mod or two disappears. It would also allow the higher-ups to throw some ideas around, such as appointment of new mods if one were to leave, agree on the strictness of rule enforcing, etc.
Golly, it's 2AM already. Better get to bed. Happy new year, everybody!
Quote from: Cobraroll on December 31, 2012, 05:16:11 PMWith updates once a week for half a year or more, we'd clear out the submission threads in no time.
But you're not understanding what I'm saying. I wasnt here when this happened, so excuse me if I'm wrong but theres the "Fulfilling the Requests" Project which was originally intended to collect all of the requests, forgotten and new, so that they could all eventually be arranged. When there was an update to the request features:
Quote from: WiiMan96 on June 26, 2012, 09:39:34 PMSorry 'bout dp, but just saw the new organisation of the requests board. Really not much point to the site anymore is there? xD
Quote from: Shadoninja on June 26, 2012, 09:42:55 PMIt would seem so. I'm really sorry. I don't want to waste all your hard work so I'm trying to think of some way to integrate it.
Though he wasnt intending for it to be, the website he made was temporary until the site got a fancy new upgrade and fixed the problem he tried to solce. Thats what Im trying to do here. We'll collect all of the arranged songs, similar to how Wiiman collected all of the requested songs. Once the new upgrade happens, it will be useless. This is only a temporary fix for a temporary problem (hopefully :P), so problems created from long term use really dont need to be addressed and small little bumps could be fixed when they happen
So, what you want is something to bring everything up to speed in one short act, and then kinda let it get behind a little again, and possibly do it again rather than constantly trying to keep it at that place. Steps instead of a slope.
What. I dont know what you mean :P
All im saying is this would make it easier to request/arrange songs until the new upgrade comes.
Quote from: Jamaha on December 31, 2012, 01:58:36 AMThat would mostly be the plan, yes. Essentially the idea is to get rid of the forum requests/submissions altogether and get the whole process integrated to the main site.
Is my idea already being worked on?