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Other => Off-Topic => The Werewolf Game => Topic started by: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:40:59 PM

Title: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:40:59 PM
Want to know if you can host? Want to know how to host? This is the place for you. Here you can find out if you meet the qualifications to host a TWG, and there are also three great guides to walk you through the design, balancing and hosting processes. Use this thread to ask questions about hosting or designing games, or post your game and ask for feedback!

Table of Contents:---------------------------------------

To be allowed to host, you must meet the following requirements:
The best way to find out whether or not you are qualified to host is to ask a member of the TWC. Please do not post a game in the host sign-up topics unless you are sure of your qualifications. It would be really awkward for everyone if you posted a game you wanted to host, and then we told you to remove it because you weren't qualified.

As part of a new rule, players who enter into a host sign-up topic are prohibited from entering the next two sign-up topics unless they get second place in the poll. This will go into effect starting with the TWG XLVII (47) host sign-ups.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:41:25 PM
This guide was written by Liggy.

Game Design Guide

--------------------------

PART I: PREFACE
1. Why This Guide?

PART II: INFLUENCE
2. Designing for Influence
3. Freedom of Speech
4. Influence as a Mechanic
5. A Note on Conversions
6. Closing Notes on Influence

PART III: MECHANICS
7. Synergy
8. Minimizing Luck
9. Counter-play
10. Final Thoughts

PART I: PREFACE

1. Why This guide?

Currently on NSM, there are two fantastically written guides from two of the best hosts that I've seen.  They cover some pretty important stuff, too!  Without proper hosting, even the best designed game can fall flat, and a game that isn't balanced is very likely to be a game that isn't fun!  But one thing those two guides fail to mention is what makes a game fun.  Bird's guide touched on proper game design a bit, so it's likely that I may reiterate some ideas that he brought, but for the most part I'm going to be discussing things that were glossed over in previous guides, or expanding on unelaborated ideas brought up earlier.

In short, this guide will tell you how to take that neat idea you have floating around in your head, and tell you how to flesh it out into a TWG people actually would want to play.  It's not really going to mention the finer details of what makes a TWG balanced or what makes a good hosting job, but it's certainly going to help explain what exactly makes one game more interesting than another.

PART II: INFLUENCE

2. Designing for Influence

A good rule of thumb is the more power a player feels that they have in the game, the more enjoyable the game will be for them.  This makes sense; that's why everyone wants to be a special human or a wolf!  In these roles, it's obvious to see how a player's direct action influences the results of the game.  If you a kill a player as a wolf, you've already altered the course of the game, potentially in your favor!  By seering a player, you've narrowed down the list of possible wolves by that much more.  These actions make it clear to the player that they mattered.  If I wasn't in this game, the game would have a different outcome.

Got that?  Good.  Now for the tricky part.

Give every player this feeling of influence.

Historically, the major reason for inactivity is that the humans don't feel like they have a voice.  Inactive games tend to be uninteresting games, which means players are less likely to want to participate, and everything goes downhill from there.  The simple solution for this problem is to design your game such that every human feels like they have a voice.  This doesn't have to be very complicated; here's a fine example of a game that would work, typically referred to as a manhunt:

1. Wolf
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human

On the flip side, here's an example of a game that's not quite so good (and also unbalanced!):

1. Wolf
2. Seer
3. Guardian
4. Mason
5. Mason
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human

As special humans and wolf inherently have a good deal of influence, most of this section will be talking about how to insure that normal humans have influence.  Keep these examples in mind, because for the rest of the section, we'll be analyzing exactly what the first game did right and what the second game did wrong.

3. Freedom of Speech

By far, the easiest way to give humans the influence they need to feel important is to give them a voice.  This is a concept that I suspect most people understand, even if they don't consciously think about it while designing their games.  Unless there's some mechanic otherwise, every player in a TWG has one key way to express their opinion: their voice.  This leads to a good general rule; allow humans to express their voice.

Looking at the first game, it's obvious that everyone human has a vote.  No one human has more authority than another sheerly based of their role, and no one is preventing from posting or voting.  However, in the other game, this isn't entirely the case.  Everyone has the ability to vote and speak, but it's important to realize that, in this game, an alliance of the Seer, Guardian, and two Masons is likely to form.  The people in this alliance, due to their status as confirmed humans and ability to confirm other humans, make it so that they have much more authority than an unconfirmed human.  A normal human's suspicion is much less likely to encourage a seering or lynched than a Mason or seerings suspicion, so the voices of the normal humans are drowned out by the specials.  For a clearer example, consider this game:

1. Wolf
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Mute - Is unable to post, PM, or otherwise contact living players.  All votes must be done via PM.
7. Mute
8. Mute
9. Mute
10. Mute

Ah.  It's obvious here what the problem is; half of the game can't speak!  The game would be pretty dull for the 5 Mutes, even if they have the wolf figured out, they have no real way of expressing it.  They likely wouldn't even pay attention to the game at all!  Now granted, this was an extreme example, but it illustrates the importance of voice well.  If a player doesn't have a strong enough voice or feels like they don't have a strong enough voice, they'll have a lot of trouble remaining interested in the game.

This yields the question: how do you avoid drowning out the votes of the human?  Well, some ways include, but are certainly not limited to:

4. Influence as a Mechanic

Giving voice is an important tool to give influence, but by no means is it the only way!  Have you considered...


Some of these games turned out well, others not so much.  The outcome of these games is less important than the concept driving them: every player has roughly the same influence over how the game occurs.  Giving humans influence through the mechanics could be as simple as giving the humans something else to vote on besides lynches or giving every human a single-use power!  There's a lot of creativity to be had at there, see what works and see what doesn't!

5. A Note on Conversions

Conversions can be fine, but a major problem with them is that, when used incorrectly, they take a way a player's influence on the game.  When you add a conversion mechanic to your game, players suddenly have to realize that the team they may end up playing for at the end may not be the team they are playing for right now.  If they don't have the ability to control their conversion, then the amount of influence a player feels he has is diminished.  They may have the ability to win the game for the team they are in, or help them in their victory, but they wouldn't know if that would ultimately help them win.  Uncontrollable conversions leave a player feeling powerless, which goes against everything you've done as a host to prevent that.

6. Closing Notes on Influence

If there's only one thing you take a way from this guide, it's what's been said about influence.  The stuff that'll be covered in the next section can turn a good game into a great game, but without the proper distribution of influence, a game will probably fall flat.  Influence isn't too hard to use correctly.  It's as simple as asking "Does any one role exert too much authority?"  If the answer is yes, consider redesigning the game so that normal humans have a larger say in the mechanics.

PART III: MECHANICS

7. Synergy

Synergy is what turns an unconnected mess of powers and roles into an enjoyable, coherent game.  In short, it's the "wow-factor" present in most good games.  Synergy helps to make the game more interesting because it adds depth to the mechanics; instead of each role doing their own thing, they can all interact and influence each other.  Bird's guide covers this part pretty well, but it's certainly important to at least bring it up again.

8. Minimizing Luck

Losing because of bad luck is no fun, and no TWG is going to be able to completely eliminate luck.  Sometimes, players take a shot in the dark and lynch a wolf, or correctly suspect a player for all the wrong reasons!  In certain situations, however, you can minimize the effect of luck with the use of clever mechanics.  As an example, take the following game:

1. Master Wolf
2. Wolf
3. Wolf

4. Vigi
5. Seer
6. Guardian

7. Miller - Is told he's human.
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

There's lots of things that can go wrong here!  What if the Master Wolf is someone who usually gets lynched?  What if the Vigi kills the Seer or Guardian randomly Night 1?  What if the Miller is incredibly suspicious for some reason?  What if the Miller is someone who never gets seered?  These are things that there's either no control or little control over, and all of them can affect the balance and enjoyability of the game!  But some of these things can be changed.  If you let the wolves choose the Master Wolf and Miller Night 1, and change the Vigi's role a bit, suddenly it becomes...

1. Wolf - On Night 1, all the wolves collectively choose one wolf player and one human player.  The wolf becomes permanently seered green and the human becomes permanently seered red.
2. Wolf
3. Wolf

4. Poisoner - Poisons a player each night.  Can choose to administer the antidote to that player during the day phase.  If he does not, the poisoned player dies at the end of Day.
5. Seer
6. Guardian

7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

...less luck-based!  If the Master Wolf and Miller end up being given to players they are useless on, that's the fault of the wolves.  If the Vigi/Poisoner targets a vital human at night, that person has the chance to speak up and save themselves before being killed unneccesarily.  Of course, it should be noted that even in this game there's still some luck involved.  The wolves could end up wasting their red power on a special human, or the Guardian could be wolfed Night 1.

However, it's important to realize that balance should not be lost while trying to minimize luck.  In this game, for example, you shouldn't see the Guardian potentially dying Night 1 as something to fix.  You could make the Guardian immune to wolfings, or at least the first night's wolfing, but suddenly you're introducing invincible humans, and that completely changes the game!  Luck is a tricky thing, and it's not all bad.  Powers that have a certain chance of working, such as unreliable Seers or Item Forgers, can work well in certain circumstances.  Changing it so that the Seering works every other Night or that each Item comes with a "cooldown" may seem like it fixes the luck issue, but all it really does is just make the powers more predictable.

9. Counter-Play

Counter-play is an interesting concept, and one that I don't really see discussed in terms of TWG very often.  In essence, counter-play is how powers given to one team affects the other.  In my two examples from this section, the first game doesn't have very interesting counter-play.  The Wolves have very few powers to directly influence the human team, while the only power that really influences the wolves is the Seer.  The Wolves will play more cautiously, because if they stand out they'll be seered.

On the other hand, the second game has much more interesting counter-play.  By allowing the Wolves to choose the Master Wolf and Miller, the humans can start analyzing these choices.  If a player is Seer, discussion would likely occur as to whether that player is likely to be picked by the wolves to have their color changed.  By including this mechanic, there's a much stronger and more existing argument than "Well, he might be the Master Wolf."  The Wolves have some interesting new counter-play opportunities as well!  By switiching the Vigi to the Poisoner, the Wolves have the ability to weasel their way out of a would-be fatal situation.  By including these counter-play options, the game becomes interesting for both sides, as both have more things to take into consideration, and more strategies to try out.

10. Final Thoughts

Really, the same advice from the other two guides applies here as well!  Look at other games!  What games did you or other people enjoy more?  Why?  What parts of those games do you think it would be better without?  Apply these questions to your own games as well!  What parts can you improve?  Where do you think most of the excitement will lie?  Who will feel like they have the most influence?  By asking these questions, you're forcing yourself to consider how all the mechanics of your game work as a whole, and how each of those mechanics work for or against the elements I've discussed.

Finally, if this stuff interests you, I'd like to recommend a show called Extra Credits (http://extra-credits.net/).  It deals primarily with video game design, but I tend to find some of the ideas they bring about are applicable to other games as well, TWG included, and some of the ideas I've brought up in this guide are modified from some of theirs.  It certainly has a large backlog, but if you care about either video games in general or game design in general, it's worth checking out.  They also did a mini-series on a Roman History, which is cool too!  But I digress.
Title: Re: Hosting Guide
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 04, 2013, 04:43:28 PM
This guide was actually written by Bird.

Game Creation and Balancing Guide

--------------------------------

PART I: PREFACE
1. A Few Caveats
 
PART II: BRAINSTORMING
2. An Idea
3. Construction
4. Tailoring
5. Fine-Tuning
6. Final Thoughts on Game Building
 
PART III: BALANCING
7. The First Check - Claims
8. The Second Check - Lynch Mistakes
9. Win Feasibility
10. Other Balancing Tools
11. Third Parties, Mystery Games and other Wacky Mechanics
12. Final Advice

--------------------------------

PART I: PREFACE

1. A Few Caveats about Balancing

Making a balanced game is incredibly difficult. You have to take an enormous number of variables into consideration, and even then, nobody can be sure whether or not a game is balanced. On top of that, many games feature some form of randomness; the seer might die on night 1, or the vigi could hit three wolves in a row due to dumb luck. Since it's impossible to ensure that the teams in a game have an equal chance of winning, I think the best way to define a balanced game is one for which every team has a feasible chance of winning. That's the requirement I'll be going with for the rest of this guide.

PART II: CONSTRUCTION

2. An Idea

What is the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed - fully understood - that sticks; right in there somewhere.

Every good TWG should start with a good idea. In art, they say you should never touch your pencil/brush to paper/canvas until you know what you're trying to accomplish. This is what separates boys from men, and doodlers from Michaelangelos. The same applies to TWG where you shouldn't write down a single role until you have an idea of what you want your game to be like. Oftentimes this idea is a new gimmick you've come up with: maybe lynches should be done privately, where everyone PMs they're lynch vote to the host? maybe players should have health, where lynches and kills cause different amounts of damage? or maybe you've invented a new role that allows dead players to vote on certain power usages?

It can be anything you want, or a combination of a bunch of different ideas. Just make sure it improves the TWG experience. If you want more help on how to ensure your idea will improve TWG rather than make it boring, check out Liggy's design guide! (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=5202.msg186613#msg186613) And if you've already read his guide, feel free to skip 3 (construction and synergy) and 4 (luck avoidance) of this guide!

3. Construction and Synergy

Suppose you go with the idea that lynches should be done through private voting rather than public voting in the thread. These are actually known as ballot box games, but we'll pretend that you came up with the idea all by yourself for this example. The idea leads to a few obvious powers. One that jumps to my mind is a player with the ability to examine another player's day phase vote. Or you could make it more of a researcher, and have him look at another player's vote history. Other ideas might be charismatics (players who have votes which count for more than 1), the wolves knowing all the votes, the wolves being able to manipulate player votes, a role that makes voting public again for one phase, etc.

Pick roles which will enhance your original idea. I would not recommend throwing a seer or guardian in at this point "just because" unless they would somehow help your idea reach its full potential/make the game more fun. If you want to add a seer/guardian those since you think the human team is too weak: just wait. There are other ways of maintaining balance. Let's say you chose these roles for your game:

Ballot Box Game
1. Wolf Boss
- Finds out who voted for whom at the end of each day phase.
2. Wolf Shaman - A wolf with seer powers.
3. Wolf Manipulator - A wolf who can change one player's day vote to the player of his choice.

4. Mayor - Vote counts for 3. Can kill himself at any time if the pressures of holding office become to great.
5. Peeker - Can look at a player and find out who they voted for last day phase.
6. Revolutionary - Can make one day phase have public voting. Manipulator and Mayor powers still in effect.

The roles were chosen because a lot of them have synergy with each other--the combined effect of the roles together in one game is greater than the roles individually. If the wolf manipulator targets the Mayor, the wolves could control the lynches for the rest of the game (unless the Mayor wises up and kills himself). And the Peeker can't be certain whether a player is voting against the human consensus in the thread, or if they were manipulated. The Wolf Boss finding out who voted for what can allow them to make intelligent wolfings and form day phase plans, and the wolf shaman can help the manipulator find the mayor. The revolutionary is just a fun guy who will mix the game up for activity. The combination of effects will give the humans a lot to discuss, and the revolutionary will make the game interesting again if it slows down in a later phase.

4. Luck Avoidance

Luck avoidance is a very important part of creating a balanced game when deciding on roles. Take a look at the following game:

1. Master Wolf
2. Wolf

3. Seer-Vigilante - Can seer a player and kill a player every night phase.
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human


There are some big problems here. Firstly, the humans are extremely dependent on one role to do most of the work, since he has so much more power than every other player. So if the player with that role dies on night 1, the humans will be put at a disadvantage for the rest of the game. At the same time, if a frequently-seered player gets the Wolf role, he won't be able to do anything to stop himself from being lynched. The wolves could also be crippled by an incredibly lucky night 1 kill by the Seer-Vigilante.

This game is very volatile, meaning a few small actions at the beginning of the game can decide its outcome, way before it's close to being over. As a host, you generally want the game to be competitive, and if one team takes a huge blow early on, the players may give up or not try as hard for the rest of the game. Here's a modified version of the above game that is much more stable:

1. Wolf Painter 1 - Single use power. On any night phase, may make the player of his choice appear a different color.
2. Wolf Painter 2 - Single use power. On any night phase, may make the player of his choice appear a different color.

3. Seer - Can seer a player every night phase.
4. Vigilante - Can kill a player every night phase.
5. Back-up - Becomes a seer if the Seer dies first, becomes a vigilante if the Vigilante dies first. Does not know he's the back-up.
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human


By making the wolves ability to appear green a decision rather than innate attribute of one of them, it makes it so that with proper skill, they can avoid being incriminated due to seering. It also makes a red seering less certain, since the wolves could make one of the humans a miller for one night. The separation of the single human power into two different roles also makes the game more stable. If one of them dies, instead of the humans losing all their powers, they would only lose half... except the Back-Up makes it so they wouldn't lose any! Whether or not this particular game is balanced, it provides an illustration of how to prevent luck from ruining your game.

5. Fine-Tuning

Your game is basically done at this point, but you can still make a few small changes. Is it too small for the forum you're planning on hosting it on? Add some humans or traitors. Do you think the humans will have too difficult of time finding the wolves, but don't want to add a special? Try adding cardflipping. Worried that a human alliance could make the game less fun for other human players? Design a third-party role specifically designed to infiltrate an alliance. There's plenty of small tweaks you can make to ensure your game lives up to the concept you envisioned.

PART III: BALANCING

7. The First Check - Claims

Now we move on to determine if the game is balanced. There are two easy checks you can perform to get an idea of whether you're roughly on-target with your game. These are just to fix common mistakes that beginning hosts make until you get a feel for designing games. The first check is simple: what happens if ever special role publicly claims their role in the thread?

In the ballot box game introduced earlier, nothing happens. They'll just be picked off one-by-one in each night phase. But take the following game:

1. Wolf
2. Wolf


3. Angel - Knows he's the Angel. No special powers.
4. Devil - Knows he's the Devil. No special powers.
5. Saint - Knows he's the Saint. No special powers.
6. Priest - Knows he's the Priest. No special powers.
7. Bishop - Knows he's the Bishop. No special powers.
8. Pope - Knows he's the Pope. No special powers.

If all of the special roles claim in this game, the wolves will end up getting screwed over! They'll have to counterclaim a specific role (let's say the first wolf counterclaims angel, and the second counterclaims devil), and suddenly the number of potential wolves has shrunk from 8 to 4. Not only that, but it's usually pretty easy to spot which one is the real angel/devil anyway. This is why new players are dissuaded from creating games packed with special roles, as tempting as it is: not only do special roles usually have incredible powers to use against the wolves, but if the number of claimable roles on the human side becomes too high, the wolves will have almost no chance of winning. Beware of this mistake!

8. The Second Check - Lynch Mistakes

The second check a host should make is how many times the humans can lynch another human and get away with it. Just look at how your game would play out. In a 12 player game with 3 wolves, you know that at the end of Night 1 it will be 3 wolves and 8 humans. At the end of Day 1 it will be 3 wolves and 7 humans. You can continue doing this until the end of Day 3 where it will be 3 wolves and 4 humans. The wolves will kill again in the night, winning the game, meaning that the humans can only mislynch twice if they want to win!

You generally want the number of mislynches to be 2-3 depending on how much help the humans have with lynches.

Although this is generally a good way of determining balance, it can become messy in games with more than 2 factions or in games with multiple sources of death such as brutals and vigilantes. For these cases, you'll just have to give things your best estimate. (I generally just subtract a human from the game if there's a brutal, and subtract two from the game if there's a vigilante.)

9. Win Feasibility

By far the least abstract and most difficult is just to ask yourself is it feasible for each team to win. If the answer is no, you should obviously rework the game, but arriving at that no is difficult.

Try running through the game a few times on paper. It will be tedious, but it's the surefire way of making your game fair. Consider the humans missing their day 1 lynch then hitting the day 2 one, and seeing where both teams stand. Or if you have a vigilante, will him killing an important wolf on n1 doom the wolf team? You don't want a team's chance of winning to sit on a single role, and your game should be flexible enough to pull itself out of a huge lead on one side.

10. Other Balancing Tools

So you found your game to be tilted in favor of the wolves. What can you do? There's quite a few options, and since they're all really intuitive, I'm just going to list them rather than explain them.
And if the humans are the ones who are overpowered...

11. Third Parties, Mystery Games and other Wacky Mechanics

As the game becomes more complex, so does balancing the game. A game can only be balanced perfectly if you can perfectly predict what's going to happen, and that's usually not the case with mystery games or games with a third party. You have to consider the feasibility of each team beating both of the other teams, and you have to make sure they have the tools to accomplish that. Or if it's a mystery game, you have to consider if any roles will claim, and if an important one does, will it ruin the game? Or a talented player could just lie about his role entirely in a mystery game, dominating in a way nobody could have predicted. 

It's difficult. And it's messy.  Not only do you have to make it possible for the humans and wolves to win, you have to make it reasonable for that third party to win as well, and that's an area where a lot of hosts stumble.  A quick way to do this is to compare the third parties with the wolves.  Third-party roles are often treated like wolves by humans, so you should balance the game as such. 

If the wolves have a Master Wolf, Revoker Wolf, and Shaman and the third party is charismatic and a vigi, that isn't really fair.  The third party is about as strong as one wolf, and there's no way he can take on three!
Some easy ways to make this third party pack more of a punch include:

-Making him immune to wolfing
-Giving him a color that lets him blend in (this should be standard unless you expect this third-party to dominate the game)
-Giving him additional powers (but keep in mind how useful these may be.  Don't allow him to seer players if he can't vigi/kill people!)
-Giving him a teammate
-Giving him an easier win condition (perhaps one that makes it so his victory doesn't prevent the wolves or humans from winning?)
-Combine any of the above

When you think you've got a balanced third-party role, double-check that you haven't thrown the humans' or wolves' chances to win out of balance.  If he can joint-win with either of them, that gives them a significantly higher chance of winning—and should be accounted for when balancing.  If he has an incentive to kill wolves instead of humans, then maybe the wolves should have an extra power?  Rinse and repeat until balanced.

12. Final Advice

As with the other guide I wrote, try and compare your game to previous games. Look at a game the wolves won: was it due to a weak performance by the humans, or a design flaw? And consider its impact on your game. Once you have enough experience in TWG, you'll be able to take a look at a game and see if it favors the human team or wolf team.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2013, 05:14:09 PM
This guide was composed by an extremely talented player known as Hufsa on FFR, Fiver on LLF and Thiannon on NSM. It was edited for NSM by Bird.

Hosting Guide

------------------------------------

PART I: BEFORE YOU START
1. Getting Hosting Approval
2. Is Hosting Right For You?
 
PART III: SUBMITTING YOUR GAME FOR CONSIDERATION
3. Hosting Sign-ups Requirements
4. Getting Your Game Hosted
5. If Your Game Isn't Picked
 
PART IV: RUNNING YOUR GAME
6. Random.org and Role PMs
7. Host-Player Dialogue
8. Writing the Story
9. Phase Length
10. Awarding Phantoms
11. INSTAs and Phantoms
 
PART V: AFTERWARD
12. The Post-Game Topic
13. Awarding MVPs
 
------------------------------------
 
PART I: BEFORE YOU START
 
1. Getting Hosting Approval
 
Designing TWGs is fun, but a lot of work: it would be a shame if you were unable to host your game after putting in all of that time and effort. Before you even start thinking about hosting, consult the members of the TWC on whether you are ready or not.
 
2. Is Hosting Right For You?
 
So you've been approved by the TWC. Great! But before you rush off to start building your game, remember that while hosting a TWG can be a very rewarding experience, it's not for everyone. First and foremost, hosting is a time-consuming process. Most games take anywhere from a week and a half to three weeks to complete, and some particularly large or complex games, such as those that offer multiple opportunities for guarding, lynchblocking, or reviving, may extend into a fourth week and beyond. If a Hosting Topic goes up at a time at which you expect you'll be busy over the ensuing few weeks, you may be better off not applying to host that particular TWG.
 
Prospective hosts should also be advised that hosting can be challenging at times; you may have to clarify rules or impose discipline on players on the fly, with little time to consider the exigencies of the circumstances. You have to remain unbiased at all times, and you have to be particularly diligent in guarding your knowledge of your game; even the most prudent host slips up sometimes. You have a responsibility to be online to post the end-of-phase results at or around the time you've specified as often as possible, and if you elect to write a story to accompany your game, you have an obligation to see it finished. If you don't think you can meet these criteria, you may want to reconsider applying to host a TWG.
 
PART II: SUBMITTING YOUR GAME FOR CONSIDERATION
 
3. Hosting Sign-ups Requirements
 
Please consult the above post for the requirements on hosting a game at NSM.
 
4. Getting Your Game Hosted
 
All right, you had a great idea, and you've put it to text. You read vermilionvermin's post below this one, and are certain that it's balanced as well. Now, all you need to do is get the go-ahead to host it! Here are a few tips to help make your dream a reality:
 
1) Give your game a memorable name.
 
The name of your TWG should convey something about either your story, the game structure, or both. If you're using Zelda series characters for your roles, give your game a Zelda theme. If you're running a mystery game, call it "Mystery at X" or something of the sort. If your game puts a new twist on TWG mechanics (say, role theft or private voting), emphasize that. You want players to remember exactly what your game entailed when they see it listed in the Hosting Poll. There's nothing wrong with a cheesy play on words if that's what people will remember.
 
2) Colour-co-ordinate and number your roles.
 
Sex sells; just ask iDOWN. When a prospective player (and voter) looks at your game, he should see immediately how many wolves there are (red text), how many special humans there are (blue text), how many ambiguous roles exist (orange text), and the like. People are lazy, and they may not want to bother to read any structure synopsis you include at the bottom of your post. To make things as easy, stick to the traditional colour setup:
 
1. Wolf Role
2. Wolf Role
3. Wolf Role
 
4. Ambiguous Wolf Role
5. Ambiguous (Special) Human Role
 
6. Special Human Role
7. Special Human Role
8. Special Human Role
 
9. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
10. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
11. Human Role
12. Human Role
13. Human Role
14. Human Role
 
15. Unaffiliated Role
16. Unaffiliated Role
 
All wolf roles should be coloured red, including the Master Wolf, with the exception of any ambiguous wolf roles, such as the Wolf Spy or the Wolf Thief, which should be coloured orange. If your game includes a Wolf Spy, Wolf Thief, or other ambiguous wolf role, you must have at least one ambiguous human (the Millwright) or special human role. If you choose to include special humans among your oranges, be sure these are roles that could conceivably be faked by the Wolf Spy or Wolf Thief. The Coroner, for example, is almost impossible for a wolf to fake; it should never be coded orange.
 
All special humans should be coloured blue, or orange as outlined above. Humans with special attributes but no special powers can be coded green or blue, at the host's discretion. Loners and other roles with no wolf or human affiliation should be coloured purple. Roles with fixed human or wolf affiliation should not be coloured purple unless absolutely necessary for balance purposes.
 
Items are coloured pink for ease of reading.

This is simply a set of guidelines for coloring your roles. As long as the teams, roles and abilities are clear, you've formatted your game well.
 
3) Write every role out.
 
Easy as pie. Prospective player want to know how many roles are in your game, and they don't want to have to count to obtain that information. Avoid constructs like the following:
 
Mason x 3
Human x 6
 
Instead, list them out:
 
Mason
Mason
Mason
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
 
It's nitpicky, yes, but it will help your chances of getting your game picked.
 
4) Provide Role Descriptions.
 
Commonly used, familiar roles probably don't require them, but they can hardly hurt. Players do not want to have to cross-reference between the wiki and the Host Signups topic just to remember what the Clavin does. If you've invented an entirely new role, or you've modified an existing role in some way, be sure to include a brief description of the new role when you post your game idea. That said, don't go overboard: you want to give people the general idea of how your game will play out, not every last detail. Those sorts of things can be address if and when your game is selected.
 
5) Take recommendations into consideration.
 
If someone suggests something to you and you like it, don't hesitate to make that change to your game. Be mindful, however, that the delicate wolf-human balance may be swayed as a consequence. Be sure to post again to inform everyone if you've changed your game so that they can re-evaluate it, and be mindful that too many changes, especially in short succession, may turn people off of your game.
 
6) Sell yourself.
 
Sound enthusiastic. Don't say you don't think your game will get picked; expect to be picked, and do everything you can to make it happen! Bold your title, provide a story teaser, respond to posts from players who have questions.
 
5. If Your Game Isn't Picked
 
If you don't win, don't complain, and remember that there's a good chance that you'll be picked the next poll you qualify for, be it with the same game idea or another. Chances are, every game idea has something worth taking from it; don't be afraid to recycle your ideas. Consider approaching a member of the TWC and asking for advice on how you can improve your game. If you're really stuck, aproach one of your friends about co-hosting. A second party may be just what you need to access fresh ideas and drum up more support for your game.
 
Remember, contributing positively as a player and in the TWG community is the best way to get noticed as a potential host. Moping about how you lost or boycotting TWG until you get to host is not going to help your case.
 
PART III: RUNNING YOUR GAME
 
6. Random.org and Role PMs
 
So your game won the host ballot.  Now all you have to do is just post the game thread and your game is started, right?  Well you aren't getting off that easily.  First, you have to assign the players roles, and send them their role PMs.  Don't worry though, it isn't that hard.  Just go here (http://www.random.org/lists/), put in the names of the players, click randomize, and match up the players with the roles.  Next comes the harder part: sending the PMs.  Here you can be as creative as you like: make a picture, write a short little message, or simply just write the role.  However, I would suggest sending every player a seperate PM, instead of putting them in BCC, as players like to do all sorts of tricks to prove humanity.  It also might be a good idea to post the PMs in the game thread, provided it isn't a mystery game, to prevent humans from determining who is or isn't a human by referencing the role PMs.
 
7. Host-Player Dialogue
 
So, the game has begun! Don't think everything is easy from here on, however: You've still got story segments to write, PMs to process, and votes to tabulate. Additionally, players will almost certainly have questions about their roles and the game in general; do your best to monitor both the topic and your PM inbox for these questions, and to answer them as promptly and as thoroughly as possible. Beware, however, that it can be tempting to give away information to players that they shouldn't have. For example, a player may come out in the game topic as the Wolfsbane; a full 24 hours might pass without counterclaims, leading the players to assume that, yes, the player in question is, in fact, the Wolfsbane, as he claims. Then, another player might ask you a question about the Wolfsbane role, say, "Can player X be lynched?". An imprudent host might respond "Yes, the Wolfsbane can be lynched", thereby implicitly confirming Player X as the Wolfsbane.
 
Depending on the structure of your game, you could receive any number of special player PMs each night phase. Be sure to respond to each of these with an acknowledgement that you received the PM and that the player's action will be carried out. This may seem perfunctory, but mistakes happen, PMs are occasionally overlooked, and you could inadvertently deny a player access to information he is entitled to. A response from you will set that player's mind at ease.
 
8. Writing the Story
 
Your story can be as simple or as detailed as you like. My only recommendation is that you remain consistent: don't post a one-sentence story segment one day and a twenty-paragraph one the next. If you're not planning on writing a story for your game, tell everyone that in the Host Signups topic; prospective players deserve to know what they're voting for.
 
If you're planning on writing lengthy story segments, consider either budgeting some time immediately before the end of each phase to prepare its story segment, or updating the game, then editing the story into your post afterward. This will allow your game to continue on a strict schedule and keep the players happy.
 
As far as story ideas are concerned, hosts are given significant latitude. Past TWGs have featured pirates, cubicle workers, and breakfast cereal mascots, among others--let your imagination run wild! Just because we're playing The Werewolf Game doesn't mean that every game's story need feature werewolves. Of course, if the werewolf element fits your game, by all means, use it; just don't feel pressured to do so.

It's been a long time since a story has appeared on NSM, and there is no real obligation for you to add one. However, don't start something you're unable to finish.
 
9. Phase Length
 
As a host, it can be difficult to balance the need to keep the game moving with the players' need for ample time to come to their decisions regarding whom to wolf, guard, seer, vigi, and the like during the night phase, and whom to vote for during the day; wolves in particular need time to exchange IMs or PMs before deciding on their nightly kill. You should allow a minimum of twenty-four hours for all night phase actions, and approximately forty-eight hours for the day phase. To avoid confusion, I would recommend maintaining the same phase-ending schedule. 9:00 or 10:00 PM EST/EDT seems to work best for most players; most of the players on LLF live in North America and are online around that time, and most game action occurs at the beginning and the end of a phase. If an INSTA occurs, end the day phase immediately, but extend the night as much as necessary to maintain a consistent phase end time.
 
10. Awarding Phantoms
 
Phantoms are every host's worst nightmare: TWG is most fun when everybody is participating, and while Real Life naturally steps in sometimes, it's unfair for a team of active, involved players to lose because other members of their team couldn't get on to vote consistently. There's not much a host can do to alleviate Phantom acquisition aside from extending the day phase, which is strictly discretionary. If the day phase is scheduled to end in a matter of hours and four or more players have yet to vote, and doing so would not significantly advantage one team relative to another, consider extending the day by 24 hours. This applies especially over family holidays and (obviously) periods during which some or all of the players are unable to access the forum, for whatever reason.
 
It is difficult to encourage activity once a game has begun, but consider reminding people in the Player Signups topic of the responsibilities inherent in signing up to play a game, namely, to be active. If someone says he is only signing up "because player X told me to", consider encouraging that player to remove himself from the player list. Chances are, he won't play much anyhow.
 
11. INSTAs and Phantoms
 
The term INSTA, or Insta-lynch, should be one every prospective host is familiar with, but it's such an integral part of the game that I think it bears reviewing here. The generally accepted definition of an INSTA is that it occurs when one player receives more than 50% of the possible lynch votes during the day phase. While this is true in the majority of cases, there are some exceptions to that general rule. A better definition would be as follows: An INSTA occurs when the number of votes cast for a single player is greater than the highest number of votes any other player could acquire were every player who has not voted for the first player to vote for the second. Take the following examples:
 
Example #1:
 
Players
 
Mario
Luigi
Peach
Toad
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong
Bowser
 
Assume that no Phantom votes have been awarded yet this game. Let's say that Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad, and Yoshi vote Bowser. If the all the remaining players (Wario, Donkey Kong, and Bowser) were to vote for Luigi, for example, Bowser would still have the most number of votes against him. This is an INSTA scenario.
 
Example #2:
 
Players
 
Mario
Luigi [PHANTOM x1]
Peach
Toad
Yoshi
Wario
Donkey Kong
Bowser [PHANTOM x1]
 
In this case, Luigi and Bowser each have one Phantom. Let's say that only Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Toad vote Bowser this time. Four votes plus a Phantom is greater than 50% of the total possible lynch votes. However, if Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, and Bowser all were to vote Luigi, Bowser and Luigi would be tied at 4.000001 votes each, and a Knife in the Box would occur. This is not an INSTA scenario, and the day would not end early.
 
If your game includes one or more of the Mason King, Charismatic Human, or the Mason King roles--or any role that can manipulate lynch voting trends--don't forget to add an extra vote to the appropriate player's target. This could cause an INSTA to take effect without the players' knowledge. It's your job as host to anticipate these situations and end the day in a timely fashion.
 
As an aside, Phantoms are awarded after all other outcomes of the day phase have been resolved. That is to say, if a player earns a Phantom during Day 5, it will not be counted against him until the Day 6 voting. If a player receives his third Phantom of the game, he is still eligible to be killed by the Brutal Wolf or an item effect (for example, Corroborating Evidence) that day; if he survives, he is then removed via Phantom in a process commonly referred to as "Phantoming out".
 
PART V: AFTERWARD

12. Post-game Thread
 
So your game is all said and done.  You announced the winning team, the game thread is locked, and everyone is preparing for the next game.  You may think you've done everything you needed, but you forgot one vital part of hosting.  The post-game thread.
 
Simply put, the post game is where players post their thoughts on the game, and the host reveals all the information initialing hidden from the players.  Generally, a good post game thread contains a role reveal, player comments, and other things the host would like to note about the game.
 
The role reveal is basically just saying who had what roles.  In fact, that's all it is.  If you were hosting a Mystery Game, and you introduced some new roles, it may be a good idea to explain what the roles did, as nobody will know what the role is.  If you weren't hosting a Mystery Game, then you should have explained the role elsewhere, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.
 
Player comments, while not necessary, are another thing most hosts like to include in the Post Game.  Most players appreciate it if you comment on how you think they did and how they might be able to approve either as a group or as an individual.  This will also be where you award MVPs and Honerable Mentions (See next section)
 
The other things you could include vary a great deal.  Any posts you burst out in laughter upon reading?  Make a memorable quote section and put them there.  Want to give everyone a phase-by-phase summary?  Go ahead.  Want to post every PM you received during hosting?  No one will stop you.  Just try to put the big sections in spoilers so people don't have to scroll for 10 hours just to reach the end of your post.
 
13. Awarding MVPs
 
Surely while you were hosting there was at least one player you thought did a superb job, and that their team would've done worse if that player wasn't playing.  Award him MVP (Most Valuable Player)!  Most games should have at least one MVP in them. Unless everyone did a terrible job, which is totally feasible.  Sometimes you may think two players did an excellent job.  Award them both MVP!  Although not required, some hosts like to give the losing team a separate MVP too.  If you feel that team didn't deserve a MVP, then just don't award it.  What if you think there's a player that did really good, but another player on his team was more deserving of MVP?  Just give that player Honorable Mention, and you're good to go.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 04, 2013, 05:31:23 PM
guys i need help balancing this one

TWG: A TWG That Has Nothing In Common With The Normal Kind Of TWG AKA Survivor Themed Battle Royale That Has A Frivolous And A Long Name

Forget everything you know about TWG; Night Phases, Wolves, wolfings and much more else! This TWG that isn't really a TWG will be a battle royale with 12 players, where you and only you compete for the victory. There will be no Night Phases or wolves. Instead every phase will be a Day Phase where all of you vote for a player. The player with the most votes, dies. Votes can be given publicly, or through PM(however, if you vote on the thread your PM vote won't be counted) But wait, it won't be that simple!!!
During random Day Phases you will be given challenges, where you can win prizes! Prizes can be Immunity Idols that protect you from a lynching, useless stuff that no one feels like putting effort into, but there might be a secret surprise behind that reward that nobody has any clue what it could be(like a hidden Immunity Idol! ...oops I just ruined the surprise...)! :O
Every time a player dies, that player will become a part of the jury that chooses the winner. When there are 3 players remaining a special Day Phase begins where all players come back to life where they can ask questions why would the players alive deserve to win and stuff. Players who aren't in the Final 3 will vote through PM who they think they should win*! *vote/0.99$, 1 vote/player
Remember that the key to victory is to make alliances and backstab players(especially the backstab part) >:D
This is the ultimate test, are you ready for it?

Players:
1. Human
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2013, 05:32:58 PM
its balanced in favor of human 11, plz change it
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Yugi on January 04, 2013, 05:35:13 PM
Quote from: Waddle Bro on January 04, 2013, 05:31:23 PMguys i need help balancing this one

Battle Royale
Can I please be Kirayama.

You know, that guy who kills almost half the players.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2013, 05:35:40 PM
im katniss
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Toby on January 04, 2013, 05:38:27 PM
I'm Peeta.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Liggy on January 04, 2013, 07:23:57 PM
Help me balance this game!

Wolf
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer

Manhunt, 10 players.  Completely balanced.  No way it can't be.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Yugi on January 04, 2013, 07:27:51 PM
It's balanced in favour of the wolf, Please change that.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on January 04, 2013, 08:38:33 PM
Quote from: Liggy on January 04, 2013, 07:23:57 PMHelp me balance this game!

Wolf
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer
Seer

Manhunt, 10 players.  Completely balanced.  No way it can't be.
I'd need to know the colors. :P

Although, I don't know how good everybody-but-one-being-a-seer would work:
Everybody would just seer the person above/below them ASAP and find the wolf.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 05, 2013, 02:41:49 AM
Okay now joking aside. Here's FSM's game:

TWG: 72 Hours Remaining

Universal effect: Masks(items)
There are three masks distributed in the beginning of the game to randomly chosen players(this doesn't include the Happy Mask Salesman):
-Deku Mask Holder will be seered brown. The holder cannot be sniped or vigi'd
-Goron Mask Holder will be seered navy. The holder can vigi someone during Night.
-Zora Mask Holder will be seered teal. The holder can seer someone during Night.
If a wolf is holding a mask, it will only have it's first effect(=the color).

Night Phases last 24 hours, Day Phases 48. Every time a Night Phase begins the masks that the Happy Mask Salesman isn't holding will be re-distributed.

1. Happy Mask Salesman
The objective of the Happy Mask Salesman is to get all the masks and have Majora's Mask dead. If he manages to do that, he wins. The game will end when Happy Mask Salesman wins.
If a player holding a mask dies, the mask automatically transfers to Happy Mask Salesman. Masks have no effect when Happy Mask Salesman has them. The masks Happy Mask Salesman is holding won't be re-distributed when the cycle begins again. Can only die through a lynching.

Wolves:
2. Majora's Mask - Master Wolf Seer
3. Skull Kid - Sniper Wolf Can snipe a player of his choice anytime in any point of the game. One-time use.
4. Tael - Tribute Brutal Wolf During a Day Phase, this player can tribute(this player dies) him/herself by sending a PM to the host, to revive somebody dead permanently. One time use. This power doesn't supersede an insta. If lynched, this player can take a player down with him.

Humans:
5. Link - Hero of Time When masks are distributed, Link always gets a mask.
6. Tatl - Tribute During a Day Phase, this player can tribute(this player dies) him/herself by sending a PM to the host, to revive somebody dead permanently. One time use. This power doesn't supersede an insta.
7. Kaepora Gaebora - Guardian
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
13. Human
14. Human
15. Tingle - Brutal Human When lynched, a randomly chosen, green human will die. Knows that he's the Brutal Human.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 05, 2013, 03:40:03 AM
Aaaaaaaaaaand here's a BOB-OMB game!!!

TWG: Hot Bob-Omb: BOWSER's Return!!!

Rules: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psuAJu3DSFo

The objective is to bomb BOWSER with the BOB-OMBS!!!(or lynch him but that's the more classier way)

Each Day Phase one randomly chosen player gets a BOB-OMB. The BOB-OMB can explode on a random point of the phase(the BOB-OMB won't explode in at least 6 hours when the Day Phase begins). They players can toss the BOB-OMB at each other as many times as they want. The tosses will be public, if you got the BOB-OMB just post in the thread something like this: I'll toss the BOB-OMB at Player 1.
BOWSER will be told the time point when the BOB-OMB will explode, so watch out!!!
The player who exploded cannot be lynched.
Anyone who fails to capitalize BOWSER or BOB-OMB will get a phantom, this time 4 realz.

Roles:
1. BOWSER

2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
13. Human
14. Human
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Liggy on January 05, 2013, 04:08:25 AM
The game I posted was a joke.  I have several good ideas, but I'd rather play a game here before I host again.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: davy on January 05, 2013, 06:34:53 AM
Quote from: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:41:25 PM2) Colour-co-ordinate and number your roles.
 
Sex sells; just ask iDOWN. When a prospective player (and voter) looks at your game, he should see immediately how many wolves there are (red text), how many special humans there are (blue text), how many ambiguous roles exist (orange text), and the like. People are lazy, and they may not want to bother to read any structure synopsis you include at the bottom of your post. To make things as easy, stick to the traditional colour setup:
 
1. Wolf Role
2. Wolf Role
3. Wolf Role
 
4. Ambiguous Wolf Role
5. Ambiguous (Special) Human Role
 
6. Special Human Role
7. Special Human Role
8. Special Human Role
 
9. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
10. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
11. Human Role
12. Human Role
13. Human Role
14. Human Role
 
15. Unaffiliated Role
16. Unaffiliated Role
 
All wolf roles should be coloured red, including the Master Wolf, with the exception of any ambiguous wolf roles, such as the Wolf Spy or the Wolf Thief, which should be coloured orange. If your game includes a Wolf Spy, Wolf Thief, or other ambiguous wolf role, you must have at least one ambiguous human (the Millwright) or special human role. If you choose to include special humans among your oranges, be sure these are roles that could conceivably be faked by the Wolf Spy or Wolf Thief. The Coroner, for example, is almost impossible for a wolf to fake; it should never be coded orange.
 
All special humans should be coloured blue, or orange as outlined above. Humans with special attributes but no special powers can be coded green or blue, at the host's discretion. Loners and other roles with no wolf or human affiliation should be coloured purple. Roles with fixed human or wolf affiliation should not be coloured purple unless absolutely necessary for balance purposes.
 
Items are coloured pink for ease of reading.

I'd prefer another way of colour-co-ordinating and numbering roles:

Wolves:
1. Master Wolf (or any other colour it's seer'd)
2. Special Wolf Role
3. Normal Wolf Role

Unknowns/Independents/additional team
4. Main Unknown/Independent/additional team Role
5. Other Special Unknown/Independent/additional team Role
6. Normal Unknown/Independent/additional team Role

If there are no unaffilated roles, the additional team can also be colored purple.
If there is a traitor, the additional team should not be colored orange

Humans
7. Traitor
8. Seer-Type Special Human Role
9. Other Special Human Role
10. Guardian- or Reviver-Type Special Human Role
11. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
12. Human Role with Passive Ability/Fixed Item
13. Human Role
14. Human Role
15. Millwright
16. Herring
17. Miller

Unafilated role
18. Unaffiliated Role

Unafilated role
19. Unaffiliated Role

When using multiple unafilated roles, one of the roles (usually the first) can also be coloured orange.

Items:
Item
3 (or any other number bigger than 1)Items

Only use the multiple number of items if those items can be in the game at the same time.

If you run out of colours, the next colours should be pink, black and white, because those colours differ the most from the colours already used.



I prefer having the team names above the team and the roles in the color in which the are seered. That way, everyone can immeadiately see how many roles of what team there are and in what colour they are seer'd (and since next to all games have a way of seering, that should be an important thing in every non-manhunt-game).

I added an extra team in case it's a game with more than two teams.

I removed the empty line between the special humans and the normal humans, as they count for the same team.

I added traitor for traitor purposes.

I changed the colour of the items to brown, as on NSM, if items are coloured, brown is the most used colour.

I added an empty line and a team name above the seccond unafilated role, since that role does not work together with the other unafilated role.

Finaly, I added a section for unfixed items.

Feel free to take anything from what I said here to the OP.

(I'm not quite sure what you mean by ambigious roles, can you explain?)



Quote from: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:41:25 PMif you elect to write a story to accompany your game, you have an obligation to see it finished.

I think that since TWG III, there has never been a TWG on NSM with a finished story (except maybe XVI). Not many players care about the story, so I think there should not be such an obligation.

Quote from: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:41:25 PMprovide a story teaser

I never actually read these in the host sign-ups, so I don't know how much of a help this is.

Quote from: Bird on January 04, 2013, 04:41:25 PMEvery game should have at least one MVP in them unless there was no player that stood out most valuable

Fixed, since otherwise you're contradicting yourself.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2013, 12:59:18 PM
That was a suggestion more than a set of rules to adhere to. I don't even follow it to the letter (I make Master Wolves green and stuff). As long as it's clear what the teams are, what the roles are, and who is able to do what, you should be fine. Your ideas are all excellent though.

Anything that increases clarity is fine with me!

The story obligation only exists if you start a story. Don't start a story unless you're going to finish it, is what he's saying. And who knows, maybe stories will make a comeback someday?

I'll see about making a few changes to the guides though.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 05, 2013, 01:44:53 PM
For some reason I thought this thread was to people help balance your games...
*awkward silence*
Holy shit I'm dumb
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2013, 02:21:11 PM
Just in case anyone else is confused, yes that is the point of this thread. But there's also going to be some discussion of hosting in general, and the guide in the second post. I think Nighthawk is writing a guide to balancing games as well, but if he doesn't I will.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 05, 2013, 02:22:34 PM
I meant you guys would balance them for us. :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Bird on January 05, 2013, 02:24:57 PM
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

Or something like that anyway. We'll definitely help and provide suggestions if you post your games in this thread, but I don't know if we're going to do all the work for you.

We're actually still working out how much the TWC should be involved in balancing and checking games. We'll keep you all updated though.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 06, 2013, 01:17:31 PM
verm took too long, so I added a game creation/balancing guide myself. I don't think it's particularly good, but it's better than nothing! Give it a read if you're at a loss for how to bring balance to your game, or if you are struggling to complete a game idea you had.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 06, 2013, 02:59:09 PM
hey could someone please balance this game

wolf
wolf
wolf
wolf
wolf
human
human
human
human
human

yes i know that its human sided
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 06, 2013, 03:00:50 PM
It's not fair, the seer doesn't know the difference between the wolf's and humans.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on January 07, 2013, 02:33:01 PM
Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Tabuu: Master wolf. Cannot be killed until Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died. Cannot be trophied. If lynched before the other three wolves are dead, a random player who voted for Tabuu will die instead. Gains a vigi power when Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died (not counted as trophying). Also, knows the other wolves' identities, but may not reveal himself to them in any way.

King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
ROB: Miller.
Falco: If a wolf attempts to trophy him, their Dark Cannon will be destroyed. This only works once.
Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
Link: See Mario.
Samus: See Mario.
Marth: See Mario.
Snake: See Mario.
Sonic: If he votes for Tabuu, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

As a note, none of the red wolves know the other wolves.
Thoughts? I'm considering giving Tabuu a kill for the entire game and adding a guardian, but I think that's slightly wolf-sided...
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 07, 2013, 04:24:43 PM
Quote from: gzgregory on January 07, 2013, 02:33:01 PMBowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Tabuu: Master wolf. Cannot be killed until Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died. Cannot be trophied. If lynched before the other three wolves are dead, a random player who voted for Tabuu will die instead. Gains a vigi power when Bowser, Ganondorf and Wario have died (not counted as trophying). Also, knows the other wolves' identities, but may not reveal himself to them in any way.

King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
ROB: Miller.
Falco: If a wolf attempts to trophy him, their Dark Cannon will be destroyed. This only works once.
Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
Link: See Mario.
Samus: See Mario.
Marth: See Mario.
Snake: See Mario.
Sonic: If he votes for Tabuu, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

As a note, none of the red wolves know the other wolves.
Thoughts? I'm considering giving Tabuu a kill for the entire game and adding a guardian, but I think that's slightly wolf-sided...

I'm assuming the miller doesn't know he's a miller. How do wolfings work in your game? And what does "investigate" mean? Is it the same as seering?

What's stopping Tabuu from claiming on night 1, and having all the wolves know each other? Like, what is the penalty? And how will it be enforced? What if he makes a joking post about being Tabuu?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Liggy on January 07, 2013, 04:57:44 PM
Also, I think it's a little unfair to have restrictions on what certain can say or reveal.  It limits possible strategies, and often everyone who is human says the one thing that the person with special role can't say.  (That is, in this game everyone except Tabuu would be claiming Tabuu in order to out him).  That's not to say there's no exceptions, but as a general rule it's better not to have roles like that.  Also, they're kinda hard to enforce anyways.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 07, 2013, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: Liggy on January 07, 2013, 04:57:44 PMAlso, I think it's a little unfair to have restrictions on what certain can say or reveal.  It limits possible strategies, and often everyone who is human says the one thing that the person with special role can't say.  (That is, in this game everyone except Tabuu would be claiming Tabuu in order to out him).  That's not to say there's no exceptions, but as a general rule it's better not to have roles like that.  Also, they're kinda hard to enforce anyways.
This was my main complaint about Maestro's last game.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on January 08, 2013, 08:16:27 AM
Quote from: Bird on January 07, 2013, 04:24:43 PMI'm assuming the miller doesn't know he's a miller. How do wolfings work in your game? And what does "investigate" mean? Is it the same as seering?

What's stopping Tabuu from claiming on night 1, and having all the wolves know each other? Like, what is the penalty? And how will it be enforced? What if he makes a joking post about being Tabuu?
ROB should have the same ability as the rest of the humans, there are no wolfings per se (all kills are through Dark Cannon unless I give Tabuu a vigi), and yeah investigating is seering.

As for Tabuu, I'd probably just kill him off if he revealed himself. I'd envisaged him as something of a manipulator who's supposed to try to draw suspicion away from the wolves.

@Liggy, I could just make a rule stopping people from exploiting that (like in Bird's BOWSER game with the rule against exploiting switches), but that might make the game complicated. I could just give Tabuu a seering and take off the whole deal about knowing the other wolves, though. Obviously in that case I wouldn't be able to give him a vigi.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 19, 2013, 04:18:57 PM
Vig
Vig
Vig
Guard
Seer

Guard
Guard
Guard
Vig
Seer

Seer
Seer
Seer
Vig
Guard


Teams know each other.

Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 19, 2013, 05:41:15 PM
The Orange team is underpowered.  Seers are pretty useless if you already know your team.  Blue team's probably overpowered because you can have the three guards guard each other every night to ensure that they all survive.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 19, 2013, 06:15:26 PM
What if they don't know each other?

Also the guards would be lynched.

It was actually at the last second I decided teams would know each other because I thought that red would be too op.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Mashi on January 19, 2013, 06:22:44 PM
To be honest, the game is very off balanced.  If the teams know each other, seers are essentially useless, with 5 vigis going on at once, the 3 guards are not likely to be successful, and the Red Team is so strongly powered that the Blue and Orange Teams are likely to team up and lynch/vigi them.

In all Team games I've seen, the Teams don't know each other.  I would suggest giving the Teams differing powers that aren't so simple and have a few more restrictions.  Also, try to avoid repeat Roles unless they're normal Human-ish Roles to keep balance between Teams.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 05:36:03 AM
This game is just something I've been thinking about for about a year now just coming and going from my mind. Just always wondered how it would plan out.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 20, 2013, 11:46:56 AM
I think there is a neat sort of symmetry to the game, but Mashi is right. If the teams don't know each other, seers aren't going to be useful at all, and vigis will be a lot more powerful than guards as well. I don't know how you could do the "each team has a different emphasis but they're still equally powerful" thing though, since I can't think of 3 roughly equal roles. Good luck though!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 01:17:09 PM
I'll stick it in next host signups and see what people think of it, won't be expecting any votes though.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on January 20, 2013, 01:28:39 PM
The idea is good, it just needs much more refinement. Also don't put a game up if you don't think it'll win, the whole reason we revised the system is to avoid that. Also also, people have been advising you on this game, so at least make an effort to change some of the more gamebreaking aspects before just throwing it up there.

You'd also need TWC approval for the game anyway.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 01:43:38 PM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on January 19, 2013, 04:18:57 PMVig
Vig
Vig
Guard
Seer

Guard
Guard
Guard
Vig
Seer

Seer
Seer
Seer
Vig
Guard


Teams know each other.


Okay so,

Red and Blue team are obviously controlling the game, Orange might as well give up.
Red would probs win, because every time a vigi'ing fails thanks to guarding, they would lynch the guarded player next day.

Too lazy to do math but the I would bet my money on reds.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 01:44:46 PM
Oh yeh, I think I'll improve it a bit and maybe add in 3 more different roles (one for each team) just to balance it all.

I'll wait a while anyway since people won't like someone hosting multiple games within a short period of time.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Mashi on January 20, 2013, 01:53:03 PM
Red would probably lose, actually.  If the Blue and Orange Team want to win, their only option would be to team up and lynch/vigi the Red Team.  The other option would be to team up with the Red Team, but that would be a guaranteed second place, and why go for second when you could possibly be first by teaming up with the not-Red Team?

In other words, the game would probably play as follows:
Night 1 - Orange and Blue Teams unite and tell each other their team members.  Both Teams' Vigis kill Red Team members.  Red Team vigis 3 people.
Day 1 - A 3rd Red Team Member lynched.
Night 2 - Remaining 2 Red Team members vigi'd.
Day 2 - If something went wrong and a Red Team member survives, he/she is lynched.
Rest of Game - Remaining Blues vs. Remaining Oranges
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 02:01:29 PM
I thought about that but I would most likely betray the other team. :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 02:07:07 PM
I think I'll make it that the teams don't know each other, can't even remember why I made them know each other.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 02:54:35 PM
That wouldn't make any difference. The guardians from each team would just claim their roles and the others would claim to them.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 02:58:09 PM
Guardians can't guard themselves. Guardians would be vig'd/lynched straight away and I don't think many people have the courage to do that.

Orange guardian wouldn't need to claim anyway, they can seer for their team.

I'd add a role blocker in it somewhere anyway so..
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:01:16 PM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on January 20, 2013, 02:58:09 PMGuardians can't guard themselves. Guardians would be vig'd/lynched straight away and I don't think many people have the courage to do that.

Orange guardian wouldn't need to claim anyway, they can seer for their team.

I'd add a role blocker in it somewhere anyway so..
That would just mean that the seer or vigi would claim and the guardian would guard him/her.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:03:06 PM
So then they would lynch the seer/vigi, there is always going to be a role in a game where people can claim Waddle, anyhow, who says every will tell the truth?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:10:46 PM
The person who claimed of course had told his teammates who are their partners before they would be lynched. I doubt that every player in the game would counterclaim to another team. The player who claimed would tell for example who the player who claimed vigilante should vigi to find out the real vigi. It is possible to sort out the counterclaimers. If the players wouldn't know their partners, it would just add a lot of unnecessary shenanigans.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Okay that's it!

EVERYONE ATTENTION:

You guys obviously haven't played a faction game for a while so don't think of making one I bagsy tagsy being the person who makes the faction game.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on January 20, 2013, 03:15:17 PMbagsy tagsy
What
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:20:10 PM
You have never lived.. It's like uh .. 'That's mine, noone else can have it cause I said bagsy tagsy'
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:22:37 PM
You can't just call dibs on a faction game. D:<
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 20, 2013, 03:23:28 PM
But I already have 2 faction games.

Ones a mystery game that Mashi Hasn't Responded to yet.

And the other one's in host sing ups.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:24:20 PM
Quote from: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:22:37 PMYou can't just call dibs on a faction game. D:<

Woops just did.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:25:41 PM
Quote from: SocialFox on January 20, 2013, 03:23:28 PMBut I already have 2 faction games.

Ones a mystery game that Mashi Hasn't Responded to yet.

And the other one's in host sing ups.

Mystery faction game? You just revealed part of the mystery..

And well that's survivor/faction with items and roles being human so it's different
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:26:30 PM
*cough*blast in the past*cough*

EDIT: Actually, FSM called dibs on that long before you. :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:28:41 PM
He may have called dibs but I bagzy tagzied.

Yeh, I said it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 20, 2013, 03:29:03 PM
BUT MY GAME HAS BEEN IN DEVELOPMENT BEFORE PERFECT APPLES.

Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 20, 2013, 03:30:57 PM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on January 20, 2013, 03:28:41 PMHe may have called dibs but I bagzy tagzied.

Yeh, I said it.
go home play tag with your bagpipes



It's funny because he's Scottish.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 20, 2013, 03:31:29 PM
Mine's been in my brain for years, starting off as

Seer

Vig

Guard
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 20, 2013, 07:55:04 PM
Just so we're clear, there's no official calling dibs on a game idea.  If you have an idea, make a game around it.  If you like the idea someone else has, you can always give them some suggestions on how to improve their game.  If you and someone else happen to have the same idea separately, there's no rule against two people making similar games.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on January 20, 2013, 07:55:36 PM
Let the better game win!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 22, 2013, 11:19:04 AM
Thiannon had an interesting post earlier that I'm going to mention something about!

Quote from: Thiannon on January 21, 2013, 06:50:03 PMI was hoping to play this game, but judging from the comments, I didn't miss much. Glad you got a chance to host, though, Toby.

Birdy-Sauce, we need to have a Proper Adult Discussion about Game Balance Volatility or something. Also you should hoast mroe.

What he's getting at about Game Balance Volatility, is the problems that may arise if your game's balance depends on one or two key roles. In "Have it Your Way," one of the humans most powerful tools, the Seer, died night 1 and there was nothing anyone could possibly have done about it, especially since he didn't know who he was! It's probably best to design games so that they're not too dependent on any one role, and no team will be significantly crippled early on in a random wolfing/lynch.

This is also a great argument in favor of the wolves knowing each other, since one of the wolves randomly wolfing another wolf kind of screws the team over!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 22, 2013, 11:33:44 AM
But is there much we can REALLY do about these sort of things?

I'm currently designing a game where no ability ever dies out, when you lose it the next person gets it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on January 22, 2013, 11:36:04 AM
Quote from: Bird on January 22, 2013, 11:19:04 AMWhat he's getting at about Game Balance Volatility, is the problems that may arise if your game's balance depends on one or two key roles. In "Have it Your Way," one of the humans most powerful tools, the Seer, died night 1 and there was nothing anyone could possibly have done about it, especially since he didn't know who he was! It's probably best to design games so that they're not too dependent on any one role, and no team will be significantly crippled early on in a random wolfing/lynch.

This is also a great argument in favor of the wolves knowing each other, since one of the wolves randomly wolfing another wolf kind of screws the team over!
Is agree, but about the last paragraph:
Unless a major role/roles is/are wolfed by an "average" wolf, then they should be fine, and, in many cases, although it might be risky, may help a single wolf keep cover.
For example, in Uprising Madness, when SocialFox wolfed his partners, but otherwise survived nearly undetected.

Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on January 22, 2013, 11:33:44 AMBut is there much we can REALLY do about these sort of things?

I'm currently designing a game where no ability ever dies out, when you lose it the next person gets it.
That might be interesting:
Like one special per team, and if/when that person dies, it's passed to the "next in line"?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 22, 2013, 11:53:37 AM
Just because one wolf was able to overcome that doesn't mean it should have to happen. 

Unless the game is specifically designed to accommodate that mechanic, wolves should almost always know each other.  Wolves Not knowing each other makes the game more challenging for both teams.  Wolves can't coordinate wolfings or wolf rushes or powers.  And what a lot of people ignore is that it makes it a lot more difficult on the humans as well.  Because the wolves don't know each other, you can't make any accusations based on that.  For example, the accusation I made against Liggy last game, along with Bird's accusations against tzp/blueflower/Spitllama, don't make any sense if the wolves don't know their partners.  The only time I can think of when wolves not knowing each other helped activity was in Maestro's Meph game, and that was only because Socialfox made a mistake.

And then there's the volatility stuff Bird was talking about.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 22, 2013, 12:31:59 PM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on January 22, 2013, 11:33:44 AMBut is there much we can REALLY do about these sort of things?

Usually? Not really. But you should still try and avoid it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 22, 2013, 12:36:27 PM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on January 22, 2013, 11:36:04 AMIs agree, but about the last paragraph:
Unless a major role/roles is/are wolfed by an "average" wolf, then they should be fine, and, in many cases, although it might be risky, may help a single wolf keep cover.
For example, in Uprising Madness, when SocialFox wolfed his partners, but otherwise survived nearly undetected.
That might be interesting:
Like one special per team, and if/when that person dies, it's passed to the "next in line"?

There's a seer, guard, and a vig in each team. There are 4/5 teams. When the seer dies, the power is moved on to the guard (he will then choose either a seer or a guard that night), if the guard dies, the power is moved on to the vig (he will then need to choose to guard of kill each night). Etc.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 22, 2013, 12:38:07 PM
.. But then I do have multiple ideas of how I could work it so I don't yet have a finished idea.

My first game I posted here, the harry potter one, that had a game where abilities where turned into 1 shot whenever someone died, you had to claim it into the thread to get the power.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 25, 2013, 10:33:57 PM
What do you think about this game?

TWG: Horror Movie REDUX

Game notes: Death posts due to night deaths may now contain game information (but not votes). However, you may only make a death post with permission from the host, due to a mechanic from Freddy Kreuger.

Roles

1. Jason  - Teams up with Normal Slasher to wolf. When Lynched, sends a PM to the host to instantly kill someone.
2. Michael Myers - Knows who Jason is.
3. The Jigsaw Killer. - Knows he's a slasher, but doesn't know his teammates. Can vigi someone each night phase.

4. Cop:- Guardian - If he guards Jason or Myers, he dies instantly. If he guards the Jigsaw killer. Jigsaw cannot kill that night.
5. Nurse - Seer/Reviver: Has 4 seers and 4 revives. Can activate one each night phase.
6. Cheerleader/pornstar - Each Phase a random player is chosen. When she is attacked or lynched, that player is attacked or lynched in her place. Then it is announced to the thread that "PLAYERNAME, the cheerleader, has run upstairs! Does not know her role."
7. Psychic Dude - Can instantly end a phase by posting GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO in the thread. Phantoms caused by this do not count. Power can only be used once. Can bring one player back to life.
8. Human: Human
9. Alice- The first time she is targeted for killing, the killing fails and she will be told the identity of Jason, however, she cannot tell anyone this imformation, and her votes count for Zero.
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
11231231231231231231231231231239.CROWARIOHWIODH MILLERSeered Red, does not know this.
13. Freddy Kreuger - Traitor - Counts for the Human Side. Has the option to be charismatic each day phase. Has vigilante powers which he can use in any phase, which allow him to control the death post of his targets. The First time someone aims a killing target at him, it will fail.



Objectives
Wolf Victory: Kill enough so that wolves overide humans.
Humans:Kill all wolves and Freddy Kreugar.
Freddy Kreugar: Be last player standing.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 25, 2013, 11:24:32 PM
I really like the death post game mechanic, and was actually thinking about designing a game involving something similar.

Can Jason choose when to randomly kill someone?  Can the cheerleader be killed by Jason's brutal power?  Do both Jason and the Normal Slasher need to be alive to wolf?

Crazy Ralph's posting restriction is difficult to enforce.  What happens if he forgets once?  Does he die instantly, do you correct him and thus confirm who he is, or do you just let it go and, in the eyes of most players, confirm him as something other than Crazy Ralph?  Additionally, all humans are just going to post in all caps bolded and end their posts with WHAHAHAHAHAHAHA in order to protect Crazy Ralph from being wolfed.  Additionally, the 1 in 4 power is pretty weak. 

Cheerleader's role is a lot more powerful than it might seem at first glance.  This person can claim and never be wolfed, freeing up the guardian to guard any other confirmed human.

Instantly ending the phase allows the psychic dude to not only confirm himself as a human, but also potentially rob the wolves and Freddy of any kills.  Ending Day phases early is bad because it reduces discussion and that's the key to TWG.

I'm also worried about how many humans know their role.  This isn't a big issue if Shane and Alice don't know who they are, but when you consider that people are going to be forced to counterclaim a specific role, that means a lot of people are going to be confirmed humans.

Shane's role doesn't serve much of a purpose other than to arbitrarily impact the game without either team having a say in it, so I'd suggest just making him a normal human.

Alice's role is unfortunate as well.  I'm not sure if she knows who she is, but I think both possibilities present problems.  If she does know who she is, you have seven humans who know who they are, and none of them have very useful powers.  The game becomes centered around counterclaims, with anywhere from three to six people being confirmed humans from the start simply based on a lack of a counterclaim.  If she doesn't know who she is, you have the problem of the wolves being arbitrarily screwed over because the person they killed happened to be Alice.  Like Crazy Ralph's role, her restriction on what she can and can't say is difficult.  I could see someone claiming Alice, and then voting everyone but the one person she can't vote in order to show everyone who Jason is.

Consider how difficult it is to win as Freddy, especially compared to the wolves' winning conditions.  There are three wolves and one Freddy.  There are two wolfings a night which can make it impossible for him to win, not to mention the possibility that he doesn't know what the wolves are going to claim, and as such has to claim blindly and hope he doesn't get lynched.  The charismatic power, death post control, and Crazy Ralph powers don't help him survive much.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on January 26, 2013, 12:02:10 AM
Save the Cheerleader, save the world.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on January 26, 2013, 02:42:04 AM
Quote from: MaestroUGC on January 26, 2013, 12:02:10 AMSave the Cheerleader, save the world.
like

season 1 anyway
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 28, 2013, 04:19:21 PM
TWG:  Zombies

As I mentioned in my last post here, I'm designing a game in which everyone gets a death posts, except for a few people, that is.  I'm expecting it to function as a pseudo-cardflip, in which people have to weigh the benefits of confirming their humanity with waiting until late in the game to give much-needed insight or push an important suspicion.

Wolves

1.  Master Wolf
2.  Wolf ShamanDoes not get a death post
3.  Wolf Totem:  Once per game, may replace the Totem Guy's Totem with a Totem of his own.  He also gets two guesses of the Totem Guy's identity per day phase.  If the Totem Guy dies or takes over the role of another Zombie, he gets to write ALL the totems.  Does not get a death post

Humans

4.  Guardian:  In order to guard the seer or vigilante, must reduce their power use by 1 each attempted guarding.  He also gets three guesses of the Totem Guy's identity on Day 1.  When he dies, he has one phase to decide who he passes his power to.  If he selects a Wolf or a Zombie, that player will gain a guardian power (with the same limitations) and the ability to choose whether or not their vote counts.  If he selects a human, that player will lose their vote but gain a Guardian ability with the same limitations as the original Guardian.
5.  Seer:  5 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
6.  Vigilante:  3 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
7.  Human:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  May not make deathpost until confirmation that he/she is not a miller.
8.  Human: All human roles are the same.
9.  Human:
10.  Human:
11.  Human:
12.  Miller:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  I suggest you ask me whether or not you're a miller when you die because I may forget to notify you.  Does not get a death post
13.  Miller:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  I suggest you ask me whether or not you're a miller when you die because I may forget.  Does not get a death post

Zombies

14.  Zombie Leader:  Beginning Night 2, he may bite dead bodies. If, on any night, he bites the same player the Grave Robber resurrects, that person becomes a Zombie follower.  The Zombie leader may direct each one of his Zombie followers to kill one person per night.  May not be revived.  Does not know his partners.
15.  Grave Robber:  Beginning Night 2, he may choose one of the people who are in the graveyard each night to resurrect.  If he and the Zombie Leader choose the same person, that person will be revived and kill one person at the command of the Zombie leader PER NIGHT.  If he selects someone the Zombie Leader doesn't pick, that person can just come back to life.  Does not get a death post.  Does not know his partners.
16.  Totem Guy:  May post a Totem each night.  If, by Day 2, neither the Wolf Totem or Guardian have guessed his identity, he will learn the identities of the Zombie Leader and the Grave Robber.  If either the Zombie Leader or Grave Robber dies, he may take over for them, becoming green as well.  Does not get a death postMay not be revived.  Does not know his partners.

Important notes:
1.  Zombie followers are people resurrected by the Grave Robber and bitten by the Zombie Leader on the same night.  If the Zombie leader bites someone on Night 3 and they're resurrected Night 4 (or vice versa), that person simply comes back to life.  Zombie followers do not count toward the Zombie win condition.
2.  If a person becomes a zombie follower once and is lynched, they can't become a zombie follower once more.  They could still theoretically be revived, they just can't be controlled to kill people.
3.  Win Conditions:  The humans win when they eliminate both the wolves and the Zombies.  The wolves win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Zombies remaining.  The Zombies win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Wolves remaining.  The Zombies' win condition overrides the wolves' win condition.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 28, 2013, 04:27:29 PM
Wait a totem is a message posted by a role that appears at the end of a phase right?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 28, 2013, 05:01:06 PM
It's a message posted by the host at the end of a phase.  The totems choose what the message says.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Liggy on January 28, 2013, 05:24:48 PM
Quote from: vermilionvermin on January 28, 2013, 04:19:21 PMThe Zombies win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Zombies remaining.
???
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 28, 2013, 05:36:06 PM
Fixed.  I meant wolves.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: SlowPokemon on January 28, 2013, 05:39:14 PM
Quote from: Yugi on January 28, 2013, 04:27:29 PMWait a totem

Totally thought this was a typo of "wait a moment"
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Liggy on January 28, 2013, 06:09:28 PM
Do Zombie followers count as Zombies?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on January 28, 2013, 06:46:40 PM
No.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 29, 2013, 02:19:43 AM
TWG: Get the Crystals!

Wolves:
Muriance: Claims to have stopped his bandit ways, but can you trust him????????????????

Actually four Bandits: Brutal wolf. Chooses someone to die with him when lynched.

Bandit: Wolf

Humans:
Elyown: On night one gets the Water Crystal.
Donovan: On Night one gets the Fire Crystal.
Sslenck: On Night one gets the Earth Crystal.
Zach
Mardek
Sharla
Gloria
Solaar
Meraedor
Verhn
Legion:Dies if Meraedor Dies.

Independent:
Qualna: Each night he sends a PM with a player name, if that player has a crystal, he steals and keeps it. He must gain all three crystals to win, never gains a crystal through random distribution.

ITEMS.

Fire Crystal: Allows user to Vigi
Water Crystal: Allows user to Seer
Earth Crystal: Allows user to Guard.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on January 29, 2013, 06:26:56 AM
Please don't use colors like yellow and white.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on January 29, 2013, 08:08:00 AM
Yugi, could you number them? Can't what's a role and what isn't.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on January 31, 2013, 01:07:34 AM
TWG Number Holder – All the King's Men
War! There is great civil unrest, and a conspiracy has been uncovered to kill the King. A coup has been staged, and it is your job to find the conspirators and bring them to justice. Most of the movement has been apprehended, but 4 of the conspirators have gone undetected and they are capable of acting out their intentions.

 - The King has Full Authority, only the one who "Wears the Crown" is allowed to lynch somebody.
 - The one in Power sends the Host a PM with His/Her choice.
 - The Public (All players excluding the King and the Prince [Royalty]) can opt to Veto the Crown Bearer's choice through Public Vote, acted through the Prime Minister.
 - Vetos requires a 2/3 majority vote for success. This is counted for total possible vote count. The King and Prince cannot vote. Game start: 2/3=10 votes out of 15 total.
 - The King and Prince know each other. All of the wolves know each other.
 - State of Powers is as follows: King>Prince>Council>State of Panic.
 - In the event of a State of Panic, players are lynched randomly until the game ends. One lynch per day, wolfings occur as normal.
 - There will be an announcement each time the Crown moves, or when the game enters into a State of Panic.
 - Wolves win when their numbers equal the humans. Humans win when all of the wolves are dead.

16 Players:
Rebels:
Master Wolf – The mastermind behind the movement.
2 Wolves – 2 soldiers dedicated to the movement.
Charismatic Wolf – the King's Council, a traitor; if he is killed, one name of a conspirator will be announced (Master Wolf's name is last on the list for reveal). If he dies while in power then the lynching will revert to a State of Panic, regardless of the state of the Prime Minister.

Humans:
The King – Our sovereign leader, if he dies power goes to the Prince.
The Prince – Next in line for the throne, if both the King and Prince Die, the Charismatic Wolf assumes Power.
Prime Minister – Has veto power over the King (or whoever is in Power). Veto goes through with a 2/3 majority of Public Votes (normal voting). If the Leader Dies, the Public loses the right to vote.
The Royal Guard – Guardian
8 Citizens – People loyal to the King

I had the idea while watching the West Wing. There is no seer, so the colors are mainly for show/makes it easier to tell the roles apart. I'm still unclear whether games need TWC approval, so I'm posting it here assuming they do. I'll clear up the language later, since I'm big on theming I plan on using terms and phrases when posting updates and the like.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on February 16, 2013, 06:04:08 PM
I made huge changes to Horror Movie REDUX. It's on page 5.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on February 16, 2013, 08:19:56 PM
Aww, nobody commented on my game...
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on February 17, 2013, 04:54:14 AM
Quote from: MaestroUGC on February 16, 2013, 08:19:56 PMAww, nobody commented on my game...
It's awesome.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 17, 2013, 05:20:28 AM
Saw that Maestro last night and ordered myself to comment in the morning ;).

Quote- Vetos requires a 2/3 majority vote for success. This is counted for total possible vote count. The King and Prince cannot vote. Game start: 2/3=10 votes out of 15 total.
Since the wolves count in the vote it's going to be really hard for the humans to actually get what they want, and in some cases impossible unless the wolves helpout.
 
The wolves are very overpowed during day, they have 5 votes, and the humans have 10. The voting is more in favour for wolves, so that they can kill off a human if one of their own is being targeted by the king/prince.

The games also a night start so right from the beginning the votes are up to the wolves, (15-1=14, 2/3 of 14 rounded up is 10) At least one wolf must vote for the humans for it to work. Maybe make it a 1/2 vote?


I think a wolf shaman should be added and take away one of those other wolves. The colours on certain roles should be distinct, also. That way the wolves don't need to be taking shots in the dark for the guardian (I presume how the game would go is king claims then guardian guards... So on so fourth)

You could make the votes be done in a poll, that way the charistmatic wolf could possibly persuade the votes better (you would vote for the person the charistmatic wolf voted for as to add the +1)

All in all it's an interesting game. I'll see if I pick up on anything else when I'm on my laptop.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on February 17, 2013, 05:57:50 AM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on February 17, 2013, 05:20:28 AMSaw that Maestro last night and ordered myself to comment in the morning ;).
Since the wolves count in the vote it's going to be really hard for the humans to actually get what they want, and in some cases impossible unless the wolves helpout.
 
The wolves are very overpowed during day, they have 5 votes, and the humans have 10. The voting is more in favour for wolves, so that they can kill off a human if one of their own is being targeted by the king/prince.

The games also a night start so right from the beginning the votes are up to the wolves, (15-1=14, 2/3 of 14 rounded up is 10) At least one wolf must vote for the humans for it to work. Maybe make it a 1/2 vote?
You do realize that the system could go like that "The One who Wears the Crown" can listen people's opinions? A good king listens to it's people.
The system can go like
King: "Everybody bold the player's name who you want to be lynched. I will lynch the player who has the most votes."

I don't see why people would even like to use Veto, especially if it's public.
And besides, when people use Veto, it doesn't mean that wolves would be in charge. It only means everybody will vote the player they want to be lynched, just like in a typical TWG.
The Veto mechanic is fine.

Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on February 17, 2013, 05:20:28 AMI think a wolf shaman should be added and take away one of those other wolves.
This brings me to one of the actual problems I see in your game, Maestro.
It's going to be long. Probably one of the longest games we have seen so far. I usually enjoy games that are fast-paced. I'm not sure would a wolf shaman be too radical.

Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on February 17, 2013, 05:20:28 AMThe colours on certain roles should be distinct, also. That way the wolves don't need to be taking shots in the dark for the guardian (I presume how the game would go is king claims then guardian guards... So on so fourth)

You could make the votes be done in a poll, that way the charistmatic wolf could possibly persuade the votes better (you would vote for the person the charistmatic wolf voted for as to add the +1)
I would recommend a Head of the Police Department or the Secret Service to bust the sneaky rebels who plan to murder the king.(=seer, but that sounds more epic) This could also mean you could add a Spy for the rebel team.
And no polls. Just no.


So the other problem I see is that in the State of Panic, the rest of the game for the humans will be based on pure luck, am I right? I would rather end the game in a State of Panic.

Gg.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 17, 2013, 06:06:29 AM
I am aware of the one who wears crown thing.


I actually thought the game would go different to what you said, as in everyone would use the Prime Minister until he/she died and then go to King..?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on February 17, 2013, 06:10:30 AM
derp

Okay let me fix that
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on February 17, 2013, 05:57:50 AMYou do realize that the system could go like that "The One who Wears the Crown" can listen people's opinions? A good king listens to it's people.
The system can go like
Prime Minister: "Everybody bold the player's name who you want to be lynched. I will tell the king to lynch the player who has the most votes."
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 17, 2013, 08:52:51 AM
Hi uhm, I'd like to suggest maybe a slight change to the way the host signups work. Instead of not being allowed to put a game in for the next 2 signups how about not being allowed to put one in until that 'set' is finished? Each host signups set has 3 signups in it.

How about that?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on February 17, 2013, 09:22:30 AM
I'm guessing that people having input on the lynches is the point of the game.  The king gets the final say, but he gains his opinion from the people.

The inability to veto the king without the wolves' help is an issue though.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on February 17, 2013, 09:41:38 AM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on February 17, 2013, 08:52:51 AMHi uhm, I'd like to suggest maybe a slight change to the way the host signups work. Instead of not being allowed to put a game in for the next 2 signups how about not being allowed to put one in until that 'set' is finished? Each host signups set has 3 signups in it.

How about that?
Idk what you mean by this?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 17, 2013, 10:51:42 AM
Like there 3 signups in a set.

It didn't matter if you put your game in he first signups of the set, the second one, or the third one, you could put your game in at any time for the second set, so potentially, if you have a few games you've thought of and want to get peoples opinions in the signups quickly, you can post it in the last singups of a set, then post another in the first signups of the second set...
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on February 18, 2013, 12:00:54 AM
The veto is supposed to be dodgy, it's not meant to be the primary lynching route. It's also a method for finding out where people are in their trusts and beliefs.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on February 18, 2013, 12:04:48 AM
Guys comment on horror movie.

Its on page 5.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 18, 2013, 12:05:35 AM
Too lazy, quote it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on February 18, 2013, 12:07:06 AM
Quote from: Yugi on January 25, 2013, 10:33:57 PMWhat do you think about this game?

TWG: Horror Movie REDUX

Game notes: Death posts due to night deaths may now contain game information (but not votes). However, you may only make a death post with permission from the host, due to a mechanic from Freddy Kreuger.

Roles

1. Jason  - Teams up with Normal Slasher to wolf. When Lynched, sends a PM to the host to instantly kill someone.
2. Michael Myers - Knows who Jason is.
3. The Jigsaw Killer. - Knows he's a slasher, but doesn't know his teammates. Can vigi someone each night phase.

4. Cop:- Guardian - If he guards Jason or Myers, he dies instantly. If he guards the Jigsaw killer. Jigsaw cannot kill that night.
5. Nurse - Seer/Reviver: Has 4 seers and 4 revives. Can activate one each night phase.
6. Cheerleader/pornstar - Each Phase a random player is chosen. When she is attacked or lynched, that player is attacked or lynched in her place. Then it is announced to the thread that "PLAYERNAME, the cheerleader, has run upstairs! Does not know her role."
7. Psychic Dude - Can instantly end a phase by posting GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO in the thread. Phantoms caused by this do not count. Power can only be used once. Can bring one player back to life.
8. Human: Human
9. Alice- The first time she is targeted for killing, the killing fails and she will be told the identity of Jason, however, she cannot tell anyone this imformation, and her votes count for Zero.
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
11231231231231231231231231231239.CROWARIOHWIODH MILLERSeered Red, does not know this.
13. Freddy Kreuger - Traitor - Counts for the Human Side. Has the option to be charismatic each day phase. Has vigilante powers which he can use in any phase, which allow him to control the death post of his targets. The First time someone aims a killing target at him, it will fail.



Objectives
Wolf Victory: Kill enough so that wolves overide humans.
Humans:Kill all wolves and Freddy Kreugar.
Freddy Kreugar: Be last player standing.
THERE
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 18, 2013, 01:38:01 AM
Wasn't serious but hey ho, what's a cop guardian?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on February 18, 2013, 09:36:30 AM
I think it's just a guardian that's named "Cop"...?  :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 18, 2013, 10:04:13 AM
Really doesn't make sense, a cop is a seer in mafia terms.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on February 18, 2013, 10:07:45 AM
But this isn't mafia. He can name the guardian whatever he wants!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 18, 2013, 11:52:30 AM
I guess that works :)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on February 20, 2013, 11:08:40 AM
My current idea for Role Reunion (my version of a blast from the past).

TWG L: A Role Reunion

Wolves:
1. Skuntank - Master Wolf Coroner
Every time a player dies, this player will be told the dead player's role. (TWG XXXIX: Perfect Apples)
2. Mr. Mutou - Negation Wolf Expeller
Sends a message to the host every Night Phase with a name of a player. That player's power will fail. Can send a message to the host during any phase, multiple times in the same phase if needed, with the name of a player and a role. If the player and role correlate, the player will die. If not, Mr. Mutou may not expel that role or player from the game. (TWG XXX: Disability Girls)
3. Andrew Jackson - Duelist wolf
If in a KitB he will always survive. In the result of a KitB with three or more players, he can choose a player that will be ignored in the dice roll (a free pass). Unlimited uses. (TWG XXXVII: Time for a History lesson)

Independents:
Independents don't count for any team.

4. Messenger
Sends the name of one player every phase to the Host. At the end of that Phase, that player and the Messenger will both be aware of the player's role. (However, the player will not know who the Messenger is.) (TWG XIX: Mind Games)
5. Strange Man - Wolfsbane
Can guess the names of all players with laterns during the night phase. If he's correct, those players and all players seer'd red (wolves except for skuntank and millers) will die and the laterns will be lost, also, if this happens and the Messenger is dead, it'll be revived. If the strange man obtains Epsilon and the Messenger is dead, he will be told which dead player is the Messenger (TWG IX: The Latern keeper)

Humans:
6. Traitor
Wins with the wolves, but counts for the humans. (TWG XXII: Theater)
7. Magnus - Morph
During the day he will select a username (by PM) and effectively "become" that player for the course of the following night. (Ex/ If Magnus selects a wolf, he may vote for wolfings). If this player attempts to morph into the Strange man, the morphing will result in becomming a normal human. If this player morphs into Mr. Mutou, he'll die at the end of the night phase. (TWG XL: Uprising Madness).
8. The Pope – Lynching Guardian
He sends a PM to the host nightly with a name and that player will be prevented from lynching for the next day (TWG XI: Beyond Azincourt)
9. Tatl - Tribute
During a Day Phase, this player can tribute(this player dies) him/herself by sending a PM to the host, to revive somebody dead permanently. One-time use. This power doesn't supersede an insta (TWG XLVIII: 72 Hours Remaining).
10. Daisy
Will be told she's a human. Will receive a PM upon death notifying her of her role. May choose to reveal the role of one person after she dies. (TWG XLII: Waluigi Time)
11. Scientist - Herring
Will be told he's a human. (TWG XXVIII: Pokémon Black and White)
12. Raiden who hisses - Miller
In the Day Phase update, if Raiden is alive a hiss sound will be heard. Will be told he's a human. (TWG XXXVIII: Snakes on a Plane)

Items:
Armor of Achilles - This item is sent to a random human (not the traitor) at the start of the game. This armor, when in the possession of a player, will protect him from being wolfed, but not lynched. If the player is lynched with the armor, then the armor is lost forever. The player can choose to send the armor to any other player by PM'ing the host and letting him know which player to send it to. (TWG VI: Rise of the Olympians)
3 Lanterns of the Night: These Lanterns are given to three random players, but not to Independents. Also, if the first two Laterns are given to wolves or the traitor, the final one will be given to a random human (except traitor) so that at the start of the game there's at least one Latern in human possesion. Holding a Lantern allows the player to know the names of the other players with Lanterns. Every Night phase, the three players with lanterns will submit one vote each to the host in order to choose one person who is currently holding a lantern to be seer'd. The person with the most votes is then seer'd (in the event of a tie vote, a KiaB occurs). The seering results will then be sent to the other two players with lanterns who were not seer'd. By PM'ing the host, laterns can be passed to a random other player, but never to an independent. The players with Lanterns will always know who has the other lanterns. Whether or not they allow anyone who doesn't hold a lantern to possess their knowledge is entirely up to them. If a player holding a latern dies, he'll keep the latern in his tomb (as in the strange man must still guess that person). (TWG IX: The Latern Keeper)
Epsilon: This item is sent to a random player at the start of the game. You may freely talk with dead players via PM for 1 phase only.  PMs must be sent through the host. After usage, it's randomly given to another player. A player who dies with an Epsilon automatically gives it to the Strange Man. If the Strange Man is dead, it'll be sent to the Messenger, if both the Strange Man and the Messenger are dead, it'll be sent to Skuntank, and if all three of them are dead, it'll be destroyed. (TWG XLIX: Red vs. Blue)

There is also an Invisible Semi Tracker (TWG XLVI: Have it Your Way) for whom every night EVERY player has to vote that they would like to know who they voted for to be tracked, and if that player used another activated power and on what player it was used (Laterns also count for activated powers). The Invisible Semi Tracker is not a role, and cannot be wolf'd or lynched because... well, he's invisible.

Win Conditions:
Wolves: Become 1:1 with the combined humans and independents.
Independents: Be the last team left.
Humans: Be the last team left.



Please tell me what you think about it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on February 20, 2013, 01:21:03 PM
Dang, what a complex game!  :o

I do like it, but I might not play very well! (As if I ever do)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on February 20, 2013, 04:32:38 PM
Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
Tabuu: Master wolf shaman. If he is lynched, he will kill either Dedede or Lucario, if they are still alive. If he is the last wolf alive he will gain a vigi power. Also, any blue player will appear green to him.

King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
Link: See Mario.
Samus: See Mario.
Marth: See Mario.
Falco: See Mario.
Snake: See Mario.
ROB: Miller. Also has Mario's power.
Sonic: Twice in the game he can guess Tabuu's identity. If he guesses correctly, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

Rebalanced.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on February 20, 2013, 07:06:49 PM
1. Bowser: Possesses a Dark Cannon that he can use to convert any character into trophy form once per night phase. When in trophy form, character's votes count for 0. Characters will not be notified if they are in trophy form. If a character is hit while in trophy form, they will die.
2. Ganondorf: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
3. Wario: Possesses a Dark Cannon.
4. Tabuu: Master wolf shaman. If he is lynched, he will kill either Dedede or Lucario, if they are still alive. If he is the last wolf alive he will gain a vigi power. Also, any blue player will appear green to him.

5. King Dedede: Can give a character a Dedede Brooch each night phase. The phase after this character is first trophied (or the next phase if the character is currently in trophy form), the character will revive from trophy form. This extends to reviving a character who is trophied twice (although they will still be in trophy form). Will fail on dead players, wolves, and himself.
6. Lucario: Can use its aura sight to investigate a player each night phase.
7. Mario: Can detrophy any live player once. If used on a player who is not trophied, the power is wasted.
8. Link: See Mario.
9. Samus: See Mario.
10. Marth: See Mario.
11. Falco: See Mario.
12. Snake: See Mario.
13. ROB: Miller. Also has Mario's power.
14. Sonic: Twice in the game he can guess Tabuu's identity. If he guesses correctly, he disables Tabuu's Brutal effect. The first attempt to trophy him will fail.

Reformatted, since games without numbering are all uniformly awful.

You need to clarify some stuff before I can accurately assess the game's balance. How long does trophy form last? If two of the wolves dark cannon somebody in a single night, does that player die? The whole trophy mechanism could use some clarification. And Tabuu's seer power is totally useless, since every single result he gets will be green except for the miller. And knowing who the miller is isn't super helpful. Is Lucario a seer? The "investigate" term is ambiguous.

As things are now, even though I'm not clear on some things, I'd say that the game is balanced heavily in favor of the wolves. Ignoring the dark cannon and trophying mechanics it might be balanced, but factoring those in can only help the wolves. Tabuu could mess things up very easily as well for the humans, with the ability to very easily eliminate the humans single decent role (the seer).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on February 20, 2013, 07:09:10 PM
I agree with Bird. The game looks pretty unfair for the humans.  :-\
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on February 20, 2013, 07:51:33 PM
The wolves don't have actual wolfings, all the kills are through Dark Cannon.
Trophication is permanent, dual dark cannons result in death (unless averted if a player is targeted for detrophying in the same night). Tabuu seers all the wolves red. And the wolves don't know each other. Apologies for not saying all of these things earlier. >_>
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on February 21, 2013, 11:55:28 AM
Oh!

Okay then. It's probably pretty good to be honest. So the only thing I'm not sure about now is Dedede's brooches. They're permanent? And they prevent death due to double trophycation?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PM
Davy:

Since the armor of Achilles is given to a guaranteed human, that person will certainly be able to set up an alliance Night 1.  If that's your intention, that's fine, but keep it in mind when balancing.  The humans don't have to deal with Mr. Mutou to set up an alliance.

I don't see much of a purpose for the Pope's power other than just being a human who knows who he is unless he can use that lynch-guarding on himself.

Does Magnus know who he's morphed into?

Is the Armor of Achilles permanent?

What happens if I have a lantern and try to pass it to an independent?

If someone is killed but survives that kill, are you going to say that to the thread?  That changes the balance of the game greatly.  If the Strange Man is wolfed but it's announced that he survives, that makes him the obvious target for lynching through no fault of his own.

But the biggest issue with this game is that the independents are way underpowered, and making them have enough power would give the humans very little chance to win.  If even one of them is lynched at any point in the game, the other has to rely on not getting lynched himself and winning a KiTB at the end of the game.  Just compare their chances of winning to the wolves' because that's the easiest comparison.  The wolves have three people who count toward their easier win condition and a fourth who wants to achieve that win condition, AND the wolves also have a nightly kill.  And they know each other.  The strange man guessing the identities of the Lantern holders is very unlikely since all incriminating lantern seerings will be announced via the alliance.

Maestro, I'll look over your game next.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on February 21, 2013, 04:10:26 PM
Quote from: Bird on February 21, 2013, 11:55:28 AMOh!

Okay then. It's probably pretty good to be honest. So the only thing I'm not sure about now is Dedede's brooches. They're permanent? And they prevent death due to double trophycation?
Permanent until they're used up.
If somebody with a brooch is doubly trophied, they are revived the phase after, in trophy form (as if only one trophication took effect).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:30:24 PM
Maestro:

My initial reaction is that the veto is almost always going to be a bad thing.  It requires 2/3 of the vote, and given that the wolves comprise 1/4 of the game, you're going to either have all the humans lynch together, which is unlikely, or you're going to need some wolves to support it, which is also not going to happen unless they're lynching a human, in which case it'd just be better to follow the leader.

In most cases, the leader is going to decide things based on a democratic vote.  The leader's ability to make late changes to their lynch target is going to have a severe impact on the game.

The State of Panic is not something that should happen in any game.  Lynches should never be decided solely by a Random Number Generator.

I think it'd be interesting if there were no guardian and the line of succession went King > Prince > Public.  Then, the wolves would have to decide when and if to kill off the leader.

I'm worried about inactivity with this game.  If I'm a regular human and I get my role PM, I'm not excited about it because my vote is pretty much worthless.  I can try convincing the king, but the king listening to me is unlikely.  Even the best lynches rarely get enough people to insta, let alone overriding the king.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:39:29 PM
Double post.

I was thinking about adding the following item to my game (and possibly a Spongebob theme?!) but I'm looking for some feedback on it first.

QuoteMagic Conch:  Starts with the vigi.  During Night 1, he must pass it to another player, who will receive it Day 1.  Let's call that player Jimmy.  During Night 2, Jimmy has two jobs:

First, Jimmy must put two names into the conch.

Second, Jimmy must pass the conch to a third player who cannot be the vigi.  Let's call that player Bobby.

Bobby may put two names into the conch as well during Night 3.

At the start of Day 3, if neither Jimmy nor Bobby is a wolf, the conch will release the list of the people who touched the conch and how many of those people are wolves, zombies, specials, and humans, but not which ones go with which roles.  It will also tell the thread that Jimmy and Bobby held the conch.  If one of Jimmy or Bobby is a wolf, the conch will say nothing.  If either Jimmy is killed Night 1 or Day 1 or Bobby is killed Night 2 or Day 2, the conch explodes.

The game, for reference.

Spoiler
Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 16, 2013, 05:34:48 PMTWG:  Zombies

As I mentioned in my last post here, I'm designing a game in which everyone gets a death posts, except for a few people, that is.  I'm expecting it to function as a pseudo-cardflip, in which people have to weigh the benefits of confirming their humanity with waiting until late in the game to give much-needed insight or push an important suspicion.

Wolves

1.  Master Wolf
2.  Wolf ShamanDoes not get a death post
3.  Wolf Totem:  Once per game, may replace the Totem Guy's Totem with a Totem of his own.  He also gets two guesses of the Totem Guy's identity per day phase.  If the Totem Guy dies or takes over the role of another Zombie, he gets to write ALL the totems.  Does not get a death post

Humans

4.  Guardian:  In order to guard the seer or vigilante, must reduce their power use by 1 each attempted guarding.  He also gets three guesses of the Totem Guy's identity on Day 1.  When he dies, he has one phase to decide who he passes his power to.  If he selects a Wolf or a Zombie, that player will gain a guardian power (with the same limitations) and the ability to choose whether or not their vote counts.  If he selects a human, that player will lose their vote but gain a Guardian ability with the same limitations as the original Guardian.
5.  Seer:  5 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
6.  Vigilante:  3 uses of power.  May only use one per night.
7.  Human:  Told he/she is a human until his/her death.  May not make deathpost until confirmation that he/she is not a miller.
8.  Human: All human roles are the same.
9.  Human:
10.  Human:
11.  Human:
12.  Human:
13.  Human:

Zombies

14.  Zombie Leader:  Beginning Night 2, he may bite dead bodies. If, on any night, he bites the same player the Grave Robber resurrects, that person becomes a Zombie follower.  The Zombie leader may direct each one of his Zombie followers to kill one person per night.  May not be revived.  Does not know his partners.
15.  Grave Robber:  Beginning Night 2, he may choose one of the people who are in the graveyard each night to resurrect.  If he and the Zombie Leader choose the same person, that person will be revived and kill one person at the command of the Zombie leader PER NIGHT.  If he selects someone the Zombie Leader doesn't pick, that person can just come back to life.  Does not get a death post.  Does not know his partners.
16.  Totem Guy:  May post a Totem each night.  If, by Day 2, neither the Wolf Totem or Guardian have guessed his identity, he will learn the identities of the Zombie Leader and the Grave Robber.  If either the Zombie Leader or Grave Robber dies, he may take over for them, becoming green as well.  Does not get a death postMay not be revived.  Does not know his partners.

Important notes:
1.  Zombie followers are people resurrected by the Grave Robber and bitten by the Zombie Leader on the same night.  If the Zombie leader bites someone on Night 3 and they're resurrected Night 4 (or vice versa), that person simply comes back to life.  Zombie followers do not count toward the Zombie win condition.
2.  If a person becomes a zombie follower once and is lynched, they can't become a zombie follower once more.  They could still theoretically be revived, they just can't be controlled to kill people.
3.  Win Conditions:  The humans win when they eliminate both the wolves and the Zombies.  The wolves win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Zombies remaining.  The Zombies win when their number equals the number of humans + the number of Wolves remaining.  The Zombies' win condition overrides the wolves' win condition.
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on February 22, 2013, 07:48:34 AM
Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMDavy:

Since the armor of Achilles is given to a guaranteed human, that person will certainly be able to set up an alliance Night 1.  If that's your intention, that's fine, but keep it in mind when balancing.  The humans don't have to deal with Mr. Mutou to set up an alliance.

I like alliances, and the armor seems to be a good way of creating one. Humans will still be unable to claim their own role, and Mr. Mutou still has his negating ability. Also, aside from the armor, humans have no protection from wolfings, so the humans have to be carefull with their armor.

Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMI don't see much of a purpose for the Pope's power other than just being a human who knows who he is unless he can use that lynch-guarding on himself.

He can prevend the lynching of the armor holder, but other than that, his power is not that usefull. I'll probably change that.

Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMDoes Magnus know who he's morphed into?

Yes

Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMIs the Armor of Achilles permanent?

The armor can block any number of wolfings. However, if the holder is lynched, the armor will disappear and even if the holder is revived by Tatl, the armor will not reappear.

Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMWhat happens if I have a lantern and try to pass it to an independent?

Laterns will be passed to a random player. You do not choose what player recieves it.

Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMIf someone is killed but survives that kill, are you going to say that to the thread?  That changes the balance of the game greatly.  If the Strange Man is wolfed but it's announced that he survives, that makes him the obvious target for lynching through no fault of his own.

I hadn't thought about that yet, but it's probably indeed better not to tell if there was no wolving or a blocked wolving. This however means that Mutou can easily kill the strange man if the wolving is blocked, but I guess there's nothing to do about that.

Quote from: vermilionvermin on February 21, 2013, 04:04:10 PMBut the biggest issue with this game is that the independents are way underpowered, and making them have enough power would give the humans very little chance to win.  If even one of them is lynched at any point in the game, the other has to rely on not getting lynched himself and winning a KiTB at the end of the game.  Just compare their chances of winning to the wolves' because that's the easiest comparison.  The wolves have three people who count toward their easier win condition and a fourth who wants to achieve that win condition, AND the wolves also have a nightly kill.  And they know each other.  The strange man guessing the identities of the Lantern holders is very unlikely since all incriminating lantern seerings will be announced via the alliance.

You're right. I'll make a few changes about them too. However, I want to keep the team focussed on finding the laterns, so I might make some changes to their original roles.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on February 23, 2013, 05:37:04 PM
I have a half done Idea for a game.

TWG: Alturnate Dimension game.

Master Wolf Painter
Brutal Wolf
Wolf

Seer
Guardian

Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Miller: If killed, a random person dies.

Like a normal game, except, in a random phase. All the living players and all the living roles are put in a randomiser. And everyones role switches. May happen 1-3 times in the game.

Also looking for a game theme, I'm thinking of either Inception, Persona 4, Chrono trigger or Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time.

Help???
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on February 23, 2013, 05:40:15 PM
Is the Master Wolf Seer'd black?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on February 23, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Oops.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on February 23, 2013, 05:55:26 PM
What purpose does switching roles serve?  It increases the chances that people who play well end up hurting the team they end up on, and makes intentionally hurting your team, particularly as a wolf, a legitimate strategy.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on February 23, 2013, 06:38:18 PM
Since everybody is posting their game ideas, I have another game idea; this is intended for the far, far future (meaning that it's just a possible concept).

Spoiler
TWG: After the Shadow

Space Invaders; Wolves
1: Shadow Leader: Takes two hits to kill; if he dies, Agent 819 dies as well.
2: Invader General: Brutal Wolf
3: Invader Minion: Wolf

Valiant Heroes; Humans
4: Agent 819: Human vigi; if he is killed, Shadow Leader dies as well.
5: Commander Bailey: Guardian (cannot guard himself); cannot be vigi'd.
6: Captain Doug: Seer; cannot be vigi'd.
7: Soldier: Human.
8: Soldier: Human.
9: Soldier: Human.
10: Soldier: Human.
11: Soldier: Human.
12: Soldier: Human miller; is told he's a normal human.

Former Minions; Rogues
13: Ryu-jin: Rogue Seer; if the Mega Golem copies Captain Doug, Ryu-jin becomes a vigilante.
14: Mega Golem: Once per game, can name one player, and gains their power and color (does not affect the selected player).

Wolf Victory Condition:
# of Humans + # of Rogues = # of wolves

Human Victory Condition:
All wolves and at least one rogue have been eliminated.

Rogue Victory Condition:
Wolves have been eliminated and # of rogues = # of humans.


Wolves know who their partners are, and rogues know who their partner is.
[close]

And... another one!! With an interesting "PM-restriction" concept.
Spoiler
TWG: At Greenbarrow Castle

Backstory: A group of travelling street performers take refuge in a semi-abandoned castle located at the heart of Greenbarrow Farms, known for its amazing milk.
Some members of the group, terrified by the apparently haunted castle, have become crazed and are going on a rampage.

Crazed Killers; Wolves
1: Sword Swallower: Master Wolf (can receive items)
2: Bearded Banjo Player: May only move one room per day.
3: "Ghost": Can speak to anybody in any room.

Street Performers
4: Acrobat: Guardian (can guard himself)
5: Gypsy Fortune Teller: Psychic; can speak to anybody in any room.
6: Minstrel: Can move one person to the central room every day, sent by PM.
7: Street Performer: Human (can receive items)
8: Street Performer: Human (can receive items)
9: Street Performer: Human (can receive items)
10: Street Performer: Human (can receive items)
11: Street Performer: Human (can receive items)
12: Street Performer: Human; may only move one room per day (is notified).
13: Street Performer: Human; may only move one room per day (is notified).
14: Street Performer: Human; is told he's a normal human.

There are twelve rooms (three on each side), and one central room.
During the day phase, you may move up to two rooms (must be adjacent) by posting in the topic where you wish to move.
All players begin in the central room in the first night; if you stay in there (or any room, for that matter) for more than one night, you are automatically moved to a random room.

Players in the central room can speak (PM and Private Chat) to anybody in any room.
Players in other rooms can only speak (PM and Private Chat) to those in adjacent or the same rooms (counting the central room).
Everybody can communicate with the Butler (host :P).

ITEMS, given out randomly on first night by receivers, and can be traded to anybody:
  • Bottle of Greenbarrow Milk (x2): If this user is wolfed/lynched, they can sacrifice this item to stay alive.
  • Secret Passage Key (x1): Once per game, may travel to any room.
  • Princess's Enchanted Locket (x1): May seer; two uses.
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on February 24, 2013, 03:59:45 PM
I see something was updated in the balancing post?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on February 24, 2013, 04:26:45 PM
@BDS, the rogues(first game) seem to be pretty weak at this point: seerings aren't too much use for them since they don't have an actual kill.
If the Golem copies the Agent, does he die if the Shadow Leader dies?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on February 24, 2013, 08:50:24 PM
Quote from: gzgregory on February 24, 2013, 04:26:45 PM@BDS, the rogues(first game) seem to be pretty weak at this point: seerings aren't too much use for them since they don't have an actual kill.
If the Golem copies the Agent, does he die if the Shadow Leader dies?
I didn't want the rogues to be too overpowered (because of the victory conditions), so I suppose the seer was more of a "safe" option (plus, they could use it to find out who the wolves are without alerting the humans)... though, it might be pretty bad for them if the Golem copied the human seer... :P

No; that only applies to the Shadow Leader/Agent 819 roles (since there's a bit of a deeper meaning to that, and leads to an interesting decision).

Making a few changes to the 2nd game now...


EDIT: It has come to my attention that, in the first game, it is possible that both the humans and rogues can win:
1 wolf left, 1 human, and 2 rogues. Mega Golem has the Brutal Power. On the final day, Mega Golem is lynched: he uses his power on the wolf.
The humans win because all wolves, and 1 rogue, have been eliminated.
The rogues win because all wolves have been eliminated, and there's 1 rogue and 1 human.


Since the chance of this happening, though, is very low, I just won't mention it in the game itself. :P It still applies if such a situation does occur.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 12:00:34 AM
TWG: To Zanarkand
Team Yevon (Wolves):
1.   Yu Yevon: Master Wolf- Can only be killed if Braska's Final Aeon is dead. Knows Seymour's identity, but cannot tell him in any way.
2.   Braska's Final Aeon: Loose Cannon Wolf: If any power (barring Zamnato , absorption or lynching) is used on him, it is done to the user instead.
3.   Yunalesca: Normal Wolf.
Team Al Bhed.
4.   Yuna: Can Choose one of Several actions every night.
Valefor: Guards.
Ifrit: Vigi's
Ixion: Guards
Shiva: Seer
Bahamut: Reviver
Yojimbo: Attempts to kill everything, but no one has any money for it and thus will never work.
5.    Auron: Guardian- Can only use his power if Yuna selects an Aeon other than Ixion.
6.   Lulu- Normal Human
7.   Tidus: Normal Human
8.   Wakka:Normal Human
9.   Khimari: Normal Human
10.   Rikku: Human
11.   Trommel: Alien
12.   Cid: Brutal Human: Random Special dies if he dies.
13.    Wen Kinoc: Miller

Team Seymour:
14.   Seymour: Once a night, can select a person to absorb. If that player is dead. Seymour permanently removes them from the game, even if Yuna uses Bahamut, it will fail. Can also choose to vigi.

Items:
Sphere Oscello Finder: Can be given to everyone, says how many wolves are left.
Gun: Can be Given to anyone,but it is more likely to be given to A Worshipper of Yevon (Wolves, seymour, Wakka).Snipes. One use only.

Win Objhectives:
Wolves: Have number of remaining wolves= Number of remaining humans +Seymour.
Humans: Kill Wolves and Seymour.
Seymour: Absorb Braska's Final Aeon and Kinoc.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 02, 2013, 02:18:30 AM
Well I'm guessing by the layout you haven't tried balencing it yourself? Quite a  few errors in the layout.


A few things will need to be answered first..

Okay well is Yuna's powers one shot abilities?

Is Absortion recruiting?

Is there Cardflips?

Can you explain Yojimbo in more detail please?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 02:24:50 AM
-Yuna can use her abilities as many times as she likes

-Absorption is another stage of death, where your name no longer on the list and you cannot be revived.

-No

-When Yuna decides to use Yojimbo, there will be a 1 in 100 chance of the power actvating. After that, it chooses a random team and permakills all of its members. So practicially, a 1/200 chance of An instant team kill. And a 1/100 chance of making humans instantly lose.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 02, 2013, 02:38:32 AM
Uhm, I really really hate that Yojimbo thing. That basically let's the humans have a chance of winning if they are 1 death away from losing, thus a luck win.

You should make a seer and take away Yuna's powers but not the vigi or revive.

You should lose Yunalesca, the wolves won't be scared of the third party with 3 of them but with 2 they will be!


What's Zamnato?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 02:45:27 AM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on March 02, 2013, 02:38:32 AMWhat's Zamnato?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 02, 2013, 02:50:30 AM
I'm talking about in you're gamee! :P

I don't see a Zamnato.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on March 02, 2013, 02:46:09 PM
All right, I know I've never played a TWG in my life, but I think I have an okay TWG idea, so I'm gonna post it here. I have no interest in hosting (plus I don't even have the qualifications), so I just wanted to throw this out here and see what people thought of it.

TWG: Mega Man: Time Keeps Slipping

Villains (Wolves):
1. Dr. Wily: Master Wolf.
2. Sigma: Wolf Possessor. On ONE wolfing of his choice, my spend the next day phase as the character wolfed. (Description of powers and restrictions below.)
3. Dr. Regal: Wolf Sniper.

Protectors (Humans):
4. Dr. Light: Guardian. Super Adapter creates Mega Man.
5. Dr. Cain: Human. Super Adapter creates Mega Man X.
6. Ciel: Seer. Super Adapter creates Zero.
7. Master Thomas: Brutal Human. When lynched/wolfed, chooses one other player to take with him. Super Adapter creates Model ZX.
8. Gatz: Miller. Is not told that he is the Miller. Super Adapter creates Mega Man Volnutt.
9. Lan Hikari: Human. Super Adapter creates MegaMan.EXE.
10. Geo Stelar: Human. Super Adapter creates Omega-Xis.

Rivals (Rogues):
11. Bass: Rogue Guardian. Can choose to guard both wolfings and lynchings, but guarding is NOT required. Gets one Guardian PM EVERY phase (day and night). Super Adapter creates Treble Boost.
12. Vile: Rogue Vigilante. Can choose to vigi a character every night phase, but vigi'ing is NOT required. If vigi'd character has a hero, Vile steals the Super Adapter. Super Adapter creates Goliath Ride Armor.

Items:
Super Adapter: The wolves start the game with four Super Adapters. On the first night, the wolves choose where to hide ONE Super Adapter. Seven locations are available, with two sub-locations to each location (locations are listed below.) Each day phase, the humans and rogues may PM the host with a location and sub-location to search. If a character finds a Super Adapter, they create their unique hero or item.
After a Super Adapter is found, the wolves will be notified (although the identity of who found it remains secret). The SECOND Night Phase after the discovery, the wolves will hide another Super Adapter.

Sigma's Powers:
On ONE wolfing of Sigma's choice, a fake wolfing with the name of a different character will be posted. The real victim is then "possessed" by Sigma, who will PM his posts to the victim. The victim must post EVERYTHING contained in the PM, NO EDITING. Sigma may vote as this character. Sigma is also allowed to post as himself during the day phase. The fake victim is not allowed to post during this day phase, except for a fake death post. At the end of the day phase, the REAL victim of the previous night's wolfing will be announced, and the fake victim may go back to posting. Again, this is a ONE-TIME USE.

Win Conditions:
The wolves win if the number of surviving wolves equals the number of remaining humans AND Dr. Light has been wolfed/lynched/killed.
The humans win if all the wolves are lynched/killed AND Vile has been lynched/killed.
The rogues win if: A) The number of humans = the number of rogues (and the wolves have not won yet), or B) If all the wolves have been lynched/killed AND the number of rogues = the number of humans.

Locations:
Wily's Castle: Factory or Main Control Center
Maverick Hunter HQ: Dispatch Center or Navigation Terminals
Resistance Base: Power Supply or Transer Unit
Response Sectors: Area K or Area E
The Great Ocean: Kattelox Island or Calbania Island
Netopia: WWW Hideout or The Official Netbattler Base
Electopia: WAZA Headquarters or Grizzly Peak
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on March 02, 2013, 05:42:25 PM
Dudeman, your game looks pretty good. Two notes:
1. The wolves look slightly weak compared the other teams, especially with the humans having the ability to set up an alliance. I'd either not allow Dr. Light to guard Ciel, or give a wolf a piercing sniper ability.
2. It's entirely possible that due to the fact that Sigma and his victim may not be on at the same time (or maybe because of something as silly as Sigma's typing style), he could be found out at some point due to the victim posting outdated information or something like that.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on March 02, 2013, 06:38:28 PM
Quote from: gzgregory on March 02, 2013, 05:42:25 PM1. The wolves look slightly weak compared the other teams, especially with the humans having the ability to set up an alliance. I'd either not allow Dr. Light to guard Ciel, or give a wolf a piercing sniper ability.
Just to be clear: I don't know a lot about TWG vernacular, so could you tell me the usual abilities of a sniper? I've heard the term before, but I thought it was synonymous with vigilante.
Quote from: gzgregory on March 02, 2013, 05:42:25 PM2. It's entirely possible that due to the fact that Sigma and his victim may not be on at the same time (or maybe because of something as silly as Sigma's typing style), he could be found out at some point due to the victim posting outdated information or something like that.
Exactly. That's why Sigma has to be really careful and strategic with who he possesses.

Hm...looking at everything, maybe I should add more wolves (although then you'd need, like, 15 people, and that's kinda large).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 06:45:26 PM
Quote from: Dudeman on March 02, 2013, 06:38:28 PMJust to be clear: I don't know a lot about TWG vernacular, so could you tell me the usual abilities of a sniper? I've heard the term before, but I thought it was synonymous with vigilante.

A sniper is an instant kill. The Person is dead as soon as it fires.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on March 02, 2013, 07:20:08 PM
Isn't that just a vigi? Or can they do it anytime?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 07:23:53 PM
They can do it anytime.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on March 02, 2013, 07:28:27 PM
All right, I made Dr. Regal a Sniper. He didn't have any special abilities anyway, so why not?
Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on March 02, 2013, 09:38:55 PM
It seems like you've put a lot of effort into designing this!  Unfortunately, I think people are leading you in the wrong direction with it.

The humans are underpowered, and have been from the start.  Based on my reading of the roles, you have five people who are just told they're normal humans, a seer, and a guardian.  Sorting out those claims is going to be a nightmare.  Assuming claiming is standard, the seer is going to get 10 claims for five roles.  Not only that, there are going to be two killings per night phase, none of which are done by the humans.  When the humans are only in control of about 40% of the kills, I doubt they can win without absurd luck or getting each and every one of them right.  Given the fact that there are three people who are seered the wrong color, the seer doesn't have much of a use.

The sniper takes out any potential for an alliance to form, and makes the humans completely guideless.  This would work well if they outnumbered the wolves by a fair bit, but they don't.  If there's going to be a third-party team and wolves, the humans need to be really powerful.  Even if Bass and Vile were just normal humans, I'd still say this is wolf-sided without an alliance.

Question:  Do the Rogues and wolves know each other?  Wolves knowing each other is assumed unless stated otherwise.  Third-parties don't always know each other.  This affects how strong they are.  If the Rogues don't know each other, Bass' power is useless and more likely to hurt him than help him, and Vile won't be safe.  If they do, they're really powerful. 

Sigma's power is interesting, but I think there are some practical issues with it.  For instance, how would Sigma go to the chat under his new nickname?  What if Sigma disguises himself as a person who is completely inactive?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 11:00:40 PM
I made a small change to FFX game that makes it harder for Seymour to win.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on March 03, 2013, 09:49:55 AM
Quote from: vermilionvermin on March 02, 2013, 09:38:55 PMIt seems like you've put a lot of effort into designing this!  Unfortunately, I think people are leading you in the wrong direction with it.

The humans are underpowered, and have been from the start.  Based on my reading of the roles, you have five people who are just told they're normal humans, a seer, and a guardian.  Sorting out those claims is going to be a nightmare.  Assuming claiming is standard, the seer is going to get 10 claims for five roles.  Not only that, there are going to be two killings per night phase, none of which are done by the humans.  When the humans are only in control of about 40% of the kills, I doubt they can win without absurd luck or getting each and every one of them right.  Given the fact that there are three people who are seered the wrong color, the seer doesn't have much of a use.

The sniper takes out any potential for an alliance to form, and makes the humans completely guideless.  This would work well if they outnumbered the wolves by a fair bit, but they don't.  If there's going to be a third-party team and wolves, the humans need to be really powerful.  Even if Bass and Vile were just normal humans, I'd still say this is wolf-sided without an alliance.

Question:  Do the Rogues and wolves know each other?  Wolves knowing each other is assumed unless stated otherwise.  Third-parties don't always know each other.  This affects how strong they are.  If the Rogues don't know each other, Bass' power is useless and more likely to hurt him than help him, and Vile won't be safe.  If they do, they're really powerful. 

Sigma's power is interesting, but I think there are some practical issues with it.  For instance, how would Sigma go to the chat under his new nickname?  What if Sigma disguises himself as a person who is completely inactive?
Thanks for all the feedback. I really made this game just to try out the TWG game formula and see what other people thought of it. Since I've never played an actual game before, I've never really had the chance to see how alliances work, how the different powers can be used for each side, how disastrous claiming can be, and how the powers cause major advantages or disadvantages for the teams.
I think what I (and perhaps a whole lot of other people) need to better understand this is to have TWG that completely goes back to basics. No complex special powers or roles or items. Then those of us who want to start playing but are turned off by the "expertness" of some of the games have a chance to at least try out a game and get the feel of things.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on March 03, 2013, 09:51:40 AM
Tell you what Dudeman. I'll take a look at your game and balance it out the best I can.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 03, 2013, 09:55:28 AM
Didn't Verm just do so? XD
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on March 03, 2013, 10:00:56 AM
^ He assessed the potential problems and gave some suggestions, but he didn't physically balance the game (although I do appreciate your input, vermilion.)

Waddle Bro, go ahead. See what you can do.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on March 03, 2013, 10:02:25 AM
He didn't do the formatting that I offered to do.

ninja'd Waddle magic time, baby.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 06, 2013, 03:36:54 AM
Updated Role Reunion

TWG L: A Role Reunion

Wolves:
1. Skuntank - Master Wolf Coroner
Every time a player dies, this player will be told the dead player's role. (TWG XXXIX: Perfect Apples)
2. Mr. Mutou - Negation Wolf Expeller
Sends a message to the host every Night Phase with a name of a player. That player's power will fail. Can send a message to the host during any phase, multiple times in the same phase if needed, with the name of a player and a role. If the player and role correlate, the player will die. If not, Mr. Mutou may not expel that role or player from the game. (TWG XXX: Disability Girls)
3. Andrew Jackson - Duelist wolf
If in a KitB he will always survive. In the result of a KitB with three or more players, he can choose a player that will be ignored in the dice roll (a free pass). Unlimited uses. If the Hero of Hope becomes a wolf, Andrew Jackson becomes a Human. (TWG XXXVII: Time for a History lesson)

Independents:
Independents don't count for any team.

4. Messenger
Sends the name of one player every phase to the Host. At the end of that Phase, that player and the Messenger will both be aware of the player's role. (However, the player will not know who the Messenger is.) (TWG XIX: Mind Games)
5. Happy Mask Salesman - Wolfsbane
Will be told what players have a Latern at the beginning of the night. However, he can only share this information through PM. (TWG XLVIII: 72 Hours Remaining)
6. Strange Man - Wolfsbane
Can guess the names of all players with laterns during the night phase. If he's correct, those players and all players seer'd red (wolves except for skuntank and millers) will die and the laterns will be lost. (TWG IX: The Latern keeper)

Humans:
7. Magnus - Morph
During the day he will select a username (by PM) and effectively "become" that player for the course of the following night. (Ex/ If Magnus selects a wolf, he may vote for wolfings). If this player attempts to morph into the Strange man, the morphing will result in becomming a normal human. If this player morphs into Mr. Mutou, he'll die at the end of the night phase. (TWG XL: Uprising Madness).
8. Hero of Hope – Tribune
Sends in a tribune 150 words or less. Has a 20% chance of becomming a wolf at the start of the game.
9. Maya Fey - Medium
Every Night phase, can PM the host two questions to ask any dead player in the game.  At the end of the phase, the Medium recieves the answers to the questions.  The dead person doesn't have to be truthful in answering these questions. (TWG XVI: Objection)
10. Daisy
Will be told she's a human. Will receive a PM upon death notifying her of her role. May choose to reveal the role of one person after she dies. (TWG XLII: Waluigi Time)
11. Scientist - Herring
Will be told he's a human. (TWG XXVIII: Pokémon Black and White)
12. Raiden who hisses - Miller
In the Day Phase update, if Raiden is alive a hiss sound will be heard. Will be told he's a human. (TWG XXXVIII: Snakes on a Plane)

Items:
Armor of Achilles - This item is sent to a random human (not the traitor) at the start of the game. This armor, when in the possession of a player, will protect him from being wolfed, but not lynched. If the player is lynched with the armor, then the armor is lost forever. The player can choose to send the armor to any other player by PM'ing the host and letting him know which player to send it to. (TWG VI: Rise of the Olympians)
3 Lanterns of the Night: These Lanterns are given to three random players, but not to Independents. Also, if the first two Laterns are given to wolves or the traitor, the final one will be given to a random human (except traitor) so that at the start of the game there's at least one Latern in human possesion. Holding a Lantern allows the player to know the names of the other players with Lanterns. Every Night phase, the three players with lanterns will submit one vote each to the host in order to choose one person who is currently holding a lantern to be seer'd. The person with the most votes is then seer'd (in the event of a tie vote, a KiaB occurs). The seering results will then be sent to the other two players with lanterns who were not seer'd. By PM'ing the host, laterns can be passed to a random other player, but never to an independent. The players with Lanterns will always know who has the other lanterns. Whether or not they allow anyone who doesn't hold a lantern to possess their knowledge is entirely up to them. If a player holding a latern dies, he'll keep the latern in his tomb (as in the strange man must still guess that person). (TWG IX: The Latern Keeper)

Wolves know eachother (Roleflip of Hero of Hope/Andrew Jackson is done before the wolves are told what players are there partners). Humans and Independents don't know eachother.

Win Conditions:

Wolves win when:
1. There are more wolves than humans and independents combined alive
2. At the end of the day phase, wolves have become 1:1 with combined humans and independents and the Strange Man and the Happy Mask Salesman are dead.
3. At the end of the night phase, there is one wolf and one human left.
4. At the end of the night phase, there is one wolf and the Messenger left.

Independents win when:
1. All wolves are dead, and the number of independents is bigger than the number of humans.
2. All wolves are dead, there is an equil number of humans and independents, and a KiaB would occur because all humans vote for the same independent, and all indepenents vote for the same human.
3. All humans are dead, and the number of wolves is equil or lower to the number of independents alive, not counting the messenger.
4. The number of independents alive is bigger than the combined number of wolves and humans alive and the number of wolves alive is equil or lower to the number of independents alive, not counting the messenger.
5. The number of independents alive is equil to the combined number of wolves and humans alive and the number of wolves alive is equil or lower to the number of independents alive, not counting the messenger, and a KiaB would occur because all humans and wolves vote for the same independent, and all indepenents vote for the same human or wolf.

Humans win when they are the last team left.



Please tell me what you think about it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 06, 2013, 05:53:03 AM
You bitch stole my game idea. jk with the bitch ofc

Fine.

Working on BftP right now.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 06, 2013, 06:37:52 AM
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on March 06, 2013, 05:53:03 AMYou bitch stole my game idea. jk with the bitch ofc

Fine.

Working on BftP right now.

FSM, I'd appreciate it if you would be a bit more polite.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 06, 2013, 06:48:28 AM
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on March 06, 2013, 05:53:03 AMjk with the bitch ofc
:P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 06, 2013, 07:56:01 AM
*facepalm. Why didn't I see that earlier?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 09, 2013, 07:26:40 PM
Changed FFX game a fair bit.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 11, 2013, 01:01:20 PM
No comments on my game?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 11, 2013, 03:26:00 PM
it sucks
Honestly, it's wayy too complex for me. Sorry.


I'll make Blast From the Past for the LI sign-ups since I can't host this time. :c

also i bet bird wins these sign-ups anyways
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 11, 2013, 03:54:22 PM
He supposedly has da best game ever.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 11, 2013, 05:12:17 PM
no wai mine iz
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 13, 2013, 02:39:43 AM
Quote from: Yugi on March 02, 2013, 12:00:34 AMTWG: To Zanarkand
Team Yevon:
1.   Yu Yevon: Master Wolf- Can only be killed if Braska's Final Aeon is dead. Knows Kinoc's and Seymour's identity
2.   Braska's Final Aeon: Loose Cannon Wolf: If any power (barring Zamnato , absorption or lynching) is used on him, it is done to the user instead.
3.   Yunalesca: Normal Wolf.
Team Al Bhed.
4.   Yuna: Can Choose one of Several actions every night.
Valefor: Guards.
Ifrit: Vigi's
Ixion: Guards
Shiva: Seer
Bahamut: Reviver
Yojimbo: Has a 1% chance of destroying a random side, including team al bhed. Is very unlikly to activate.

5.    Auron: Guardian- Can only use his power if Yuna selects an Aeon other than Ixion.
6.   Lulu- Normal Human
7.   Tidus: Normal Human
8.   Wakka:Normal Human
9.   Khimari: Normal Human
10.   Rikku: Human
11.   Trommel: Alien
12.   Cid: Normal Humam
13.    Wen Kinoc: Miller

Team Seymour:
14.   Seymour: Once a night, can select a person to absorb. If that player is dead. Seymour permanently removes them from the game, even if Yuna uses Bahamut, it will fail.

Win Objhectives:
Wolves: Have number of remaining wolves= Number of remaining humans +Seymour.
Humans: Kill Wolves and Seymour.
Seymour: Absorb Braska's Final Aeon amd Kinoc.
What do you think of the changes?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 14, 2013, 03:34:46 PM
Sorry, a little late.

TWG LI: A Blast From the Past

The Evil Masterminds Throughout the Time(Wolves):

1. Skuntank - Master Wolf Coroner - Every time a player dies, Skuntank will find out that player's exact role. (TWG XXXIX: Perfect Apples)

2. Kamek: He's a fun wolf who can do one of two things each night phase.
- Direct the power of his choosing to a player of his choosing.  Like "I want Vermilionvermin to use his power on mastergamer_38." He may only use this once on each player.  For example, he may, on a future phase, redirect mastergamer_38's power to Vermilionvermin, but may never redirect Vermilionvermin's power ever again.
- Give a random player a bomb.  I will announce at the beginning of the day phase which player has the bomb.  During the day phase, that player may throw the bomb at whatever player they choose.  That player will die. (TWG XLII: Waluigi Time

3. Henry VIII (England) – Wolf Painter – Can call for an immediate lynching of the player with the most votes, thereby ending the current day phase; one use only. If a KitB results, he can choose the player to be lynched. If no votes have been cast it functions like a KitB. People who haven't voted yet do not get a phantom counted against them. (TWG XXXVII - Time for a History Lesson)

4. Mr. Mutou - Sends a message to the Host every Night Phase with the name of a Player.  That Player's power will fail(/be negated).  Can send a message to the Host during any Phase, multiple times in the same Phase if needed, with the name of a Player and a Role.  If the Player and Role correlate, the Player will die.  If not, Mr. Mutou may not expel that Role or Player from the game. (TWG XXX: Disability Girls)

The Protectors of Mankind(Humans):

5. Master Swordsman- Magnus - Morph – During the day he will select a username (by PM) and effectively "become" that player for the course of the following night. (TWG XL: Uprising Madness)

6. Doctor Emmett Brown – Psychic
Built a time machine out of a DeLorean, presumably to travel the Space-Time Continuum in style; he can take another player of his choosing to either the future or past. Going to the past allows both players to adjust their votes from one day to a different player; going to the future will give them safe passage to the next day phase. He carries Gray's Almanac, granting the holder a tally of used powers throughout the game. The Almanac can only be used once all game, meaning the reader will only be told everything once he/she uses it. The player is allowed to give the Gray's Almanac to another player. (TWG XLVII - Relax, I'm a Doctor)
 
7. Oracle - Every night, can choose a player.  If the Oracle dies that night or the next day phase, that player's role will be revealed to the thread. (TWG XXI. A Lesson in Etiquette.)

8. Werewolf Sonic (During the day he will seer BLUE, but will seer RED at night due to his werewolf form (remains human throughout). His incredible endurance allows him to take any combination of 2 vigi's/wolfings before going down. When Sonic is wolfed/vigi'd the first time, it will be exclaimed that "Sonic has been wolfed/vigi'd! (1)." On the second kill, the player's name will be used normally, stating "Player X has been wolfed/vigid"). Werewolf Sonic knows who he is. NOTE: Werewolf Sonic an be ohko'd by Mr. Mutou. (TWG XXXIII: Beat Those Eggs Jimmy!)

⑨. Cirno - Guardian - Able to make one ice shield per turn in order to protect a player. NOTE: Doesn't protect from Mr. Mutou. (TWG XII - The Second Great Fairy War)

10. Maya Fey - Medium - Every Night phase, can PM the host two y/n questions to ask any dead player in the game.  At the end of the phase, the Medium recieves the answers to the questions.  The dead person doesn't have to be truthful in answering these questions. (TWG XVI: Objection!)

11. Hero of Mind - Sends the name of a player and is told who they are targeting. (TWG XXXI: Just Another SBURB Session)

12. Human (TWG in general)

13. Scientist - Herring Will be told he's a normal human. (TWG XXVIII: Pokémon Black and White)

14. Millwright- Will be told he's a normal human. (TWG XXIV: Sauce Is Pretty Coll)

15. The Pain, as portrayed by Nicholas Cage - Will be told he's a normal human. As long as The Pain is alive, there will be a buzzing noise at the start of every Day Phase. (TWG XXXVIII: Snakes on a Plane)

16. Tingle - Brutal Human When killed, a randomly chosen, blue human will die. (TWG XLVIII: 72 Hours Remaining)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on March 14, 2013, 04:47:16 PM
One question: do you honestly think people will vote for 2 Blast From The Pasts in a row?  :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 14, 2013, 08:55:28 PM
That's why I didn't vote for him.

Plus it was my game idea and I'm planning on hosting it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 15, 2013, 10:47:18 AM
FSM, I think the wolves are underpowered in your game.

If Werewolf Sonic claims, and he's not counterclaimed, he can only be killed by mr. Mutou (I assume sniping count's as vigi'ing for WS). If mr. Mutou kills him, he'll be revived as Chimeco will tribute himself. Than he can set up an alliance by night 2. After night 2, 3 players have been killed, and in the best case scenario for the wolves, it's by then 9:3, and the oracle has been killed, and has revealed a blue.

By day 2, WS should inform Magnus who to morph into. In the best case scenario for the wolves, there are three players that claimed human and three counterclaiming wolves, which means that, in the best case scenario for the wolves, Magnus morphes into a human, and the wolves wolf a special (8:3), after which another human is lynched (7:3), after which Magnus morphes into a human and the wolves wolf eighter a morphed human or a special (6:3), than they use their sniper (5:3), use beheading (4:3), have Magnus morph into Andrew Jackson, and wolf another human (3:3), which means that, based on the rules you use, eighter the wolves win, or a KitB decides which team will win.

If WS is counterclaimed, the humans will lynch one of the players that claimed WS, and if that player was WS, that player will survive due to his power. After that, WS is going to be killed by Bowser, only to be revived next day phase. Andrew Jackson, who should have counterclaimed WS, should use it's beheading, to lynch a human during day 2. Then during day 3, after an alliance has been set up over night, AJ, will be lynched, which means that the game would be 8:2

Which means that, once again, Magnus could fail three times to morph into one of the wolves, which means that, in the best case scenario for the wolves, Magnus morphes into a human, the wolves wolf a confirmed human (7:2), after which a human is lynched (6:2) after which Magnus morphes into a human, the wolves wolf a confirmed human (5:2), and snipe another (4:2), after which they have lost.

Not even to mention that the death of the Oracle could reveal a wolf, Maya Fey can find things out about dead players and the Hero of Mind also has possibilities of finding wolves. Also, the wolves have no powers to find out wheter a player is a normal or a special human. And yes, of course Tingle can be killed, which would make the game a bit easier for the wolves, but even so, it's too difficult for them to win.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 15, 2013, 12:08:44 PM
Sniping does not count as a viging, I wanted to keep the role description as original as possible.

I'll most likely replace a human with another wolf.

Also idk what the hell are you talking about Andrew Jackson? ::)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 20, 2013, 06:37:47 PM
TWG: To Zanarkand
Team Yevon (Wolves):
1.   Yu Yevon: Master Wolf- Can only be killed if Braska's Final Aeon is dead. Knows Seymour's identity, but cannot tell him in any way.
2.   Braska's Final Aeon: Loose Cannon Wolf: If any power (barring Zamnato , absorption or lynching) is used on him, it is done to the user instead.
3.   Yunalesca: Normal Wolf.

Team Al Bhed.
4.   Yuna: Can Choose one of Several actions every night.
Valefor: Guards.
Ifrit: Vigi's
Ixion: Brutal Effect.
Shiva: Seer
Bahamut: Reviver
5.    Auron: Guardian- Can only use his power if Yuna selects an Aeon other than Valefor.
6.   Lulu- Normal Human
7.   Tidus: Normal Human
8.   Wakka:Normal Human
9.   Khimari: Normal Human
10.   Rikku: Human
11.   Trommel: Alien
12.   Cid: Brutal Human: Random Special dies if he dies.
13.    Wen Kinoc: Miller

Team Seymour:
14.   Seymour: Once a night, can select a person to absorb. If that player is dead. Seymour permanently removes them from the game, even if Yuna uses Bahamut, it will fail. Can also choose to vigi.

Items:
Sphere Oscello Finder: Can be given to anyone, says how many wolves are left.
Gun: Can be Given to anyone,but it is more likely to be given to A Worshipper of Yevon (Wolves, seymour, Wakka, Trommel or Kinoc). Snipes. One use only.

Win Objechtives:
Wolves: Have number of remaining wolves= Number of remaining humans +Seymour.
Humans: Kill Wolves and Seymour.
Seymour: Absorb Braska's Final Aeon and Kinoc.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 21, 2013, 09:27:21 AM
I'm sorry but I get extremly put off a game with obvious errors such as spelling errors or messed up roles.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 21, 2013, 02:42:08 PM
Spelling errors?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 21, 2013, 02:44:35 PM
QuoteWin Objhectives:

Quote4.   Yuna: Can Choose one of Several actions every night.
Valefor: Guards.
Ixion: Guards

These are the obvious problems for the layout.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 21, 2013, 02:54:04 PM
ObJecht (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Jecht/Dissidia)ives
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 21, 2013, 03:17:43 PM
Well sorry, but yeh, same as I said last time, get rid of Yuna's 2 guardings.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 21, 2013, 03:20:24 PM
Changed Ixion to a brutal effect.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on March 21, 2013, 07:29:12 PM
Okay this is going here before I forget stuff.

Null Session

Wolf
Wolf
Wolf
Wolf (the wolves do not know each other)
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human

Every player will receive a randomly shuffled Title and Aspect. The titles are Heir, Page, Prince, Bard, Witch, Mage, Seer, Knight, Sylph, Thief, Rogue, Maid, Muse, and Lord. The aspects are Breath, Hope, Heart, Rage, Space, Doom, Light, Time, Mind, Life, Void, Blood, Sand, and Dreams. You might receive any combination of these titles and aspects, but no two people will receive the same title or aspect. All of these are more fully explained in the spoilers below:
Titles
First off, Titles from most passive to most active:
-----------------------PASSIVE-----------------   -------------------------ACTIVE--------------------
Muse > Page > Seer > Bard > Rogue > Sylph > Heir   Knight < Maid < Thief < Prince < Mage < Witch < Lord

Passive and Active are terms that you can pretty much interpret however you want. Passivity is representative of players that organize or help others, whereas Activity indicates players who act in their own self-interest.

Heir: Inheritance class. Heirs' aspects act in a generally favorable manner to them and to their team.
Knight: Defence class. Knights can weaponize their aspect, and are often concerned with the protection of their teammates.
Sylph: Sylphs heal or heal with their aspect.
Maid: Maids fix things with their aspect or fix their aspect.
Rogue: Rogues steal or steal with their aspect to benefit other players.
Thief: Thieves steal or steal with their aspect to benefit themselves.
Bard: Bards allow their aspect to be destroyed, or allow the destruction of their aspect.
Prince: Princes destroy or destroy with their aspect.
Seer: Seers have overarching knowledge of their aspect, which they use to direct others.
Mage: Mages have overarching knowledge of their aspect, which they use for their own purposes.
Page: Pages are a class of unfulfilled potential. They must unlock their potential, and then become highly powerful.
Witch: Witches are a highly offensive class who can manipulate their aspect to any effect they wish.
Muse: Muses are defined by passivity, acting only through their teammates.
Lord: Lords are defined by activity, acting purely by themselves.
[close]

Aspects
Breath: Aspect of wind. Pretty much has to be interpreted symbolically to have any application to TWG.
Hope: Aspect of (blind) faith.
Heart: Aspect of emotion, instinct, and of the self.
Rage: Aspect of betrayal, anger, and insanity.
Space: Pretty self-explanatory.
Doom: Aspect of fate.
Light: Aspect of fortune and information.
Time: Also self-explanatory.
Mind: Aspect of logic, intelligence, and choices.
Life: Duh.
Void: Aspect of hiding, secrets, and obfuscation.
Blood: Aspect of alliance and partnership.
Sand: Aspect of deceit and falsehood.
Dreams: Aspect of creativity. Dreams players need to have novel solutions to problems they come across.
[close]

At any time during the game, you may CHOOSE A POWER that fits your title and aspect. For instance, if you are a Prince of Life, you might tell me that you would like a vigilante power. Once a power is chosen, I will balance it based on how well it fits your title/aspect combination and how innately powerful the ability is (vigis, for instance, being obviously more powerful than seerings). What this generally means is that I give you a number of uses of your power, depending on what it is. Then you will have the option to either accept the power, or change. Powers can be as complex or as simple as you like, and the more specific they are to your title/aspect, the better.
Once you have chosen a power, you will NOT BE ABLE TO CHANGE, so think carefully before accepting a power.

In addition, the Muse and Lord will be on opposite teams.

Finally, the game can be rebalanced for 12: one wolf and one human will be docked, the wolves will know each other, and the Muse, Lord, Sand, and Dreams will be removed.

Anyway, I doubt I'm going to host this here. It's pretty impenetrable to anyone unfamiliar with Homestuck (although if I'm wrong on this please correct me!). Also for the life of me I can't think of a useful Space power.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 25, 2013, 11:12:59 PM
TWG: Survivor: Cook Islands.
Universal Effects: Phase Switch(Night is Day, day is night) and Cardflipping.

This is a Faction game, for the first 4 Day phases they will be working in their teams, but the Next Day Phase, there will be a merge, the last player standing will win.

Team Manihiki
1.Person
2.Person
3.Person
4.Person

Team Aitutaki
5.Person
6.Person
7.Person
8.Person

Team Puka Puka
9.Person
10.Person
11.Person
12.Person

Team Rarotonga
13.Person
14.Person
15.Person
16.Person

At the start of the game , a challenge will be held every Day (Night), a question will be asked in the thread, the two teams with the most people with correct  answers will be immune from being voted out (lynched) the following Night (Day Phase).

After the Merge, challenges will function similar to Bowsers big blast, with everything picking something and someone randomly winning.

After the merge, anyone voted off will become part of the jury, in the final phase, the jury will vote on who they want the winner to be.

The Bribary System

At the start of every Day (Night) Phase, money will wash up on the shore for both teams and each living player will get $500 to bribe me with. Such deals are.

Making any answer to one question correct ($100, can only be used once every second day, post mege only)
Immunity Idol ($500, only one person can buy at a time)
Setting someone up to be "injured" ($750, if injured person is injured again, that person dies.)
Insta lynch ($1500)
Making SocialFox be High ($1000, Makes me act high)
Clue ($75000, if your team loses a challenge, you can use this item to seer)

Money Stacks.

Team members do not know each other.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 30, 2013, 05:56:47 AM
I fix'd the roles in my BFtP. I'll make more covering notes in a few days.

Spoiler
TWG LI: A Blast From the Past

The Evil Masterminds Throughout the Time(Wolves):

1. Skuntank - Master Wolf Coroner - Every time a player dies, Skuntank will find out that player's exact role. (TWG XXXIX: Perfect Apples)

2. Kamek: He's a fun wolf who can do one of two things each night phase.
- Direct the power of his choosing to a player of his choosing.  Like "I want Vermilionvermin to use his power on mastergamer_38." He may only use this once on each player.  For example, he may, on a future phase, redirect mastergamer_38's power to Vermilionvermin, but may never redirect Vermilionvermin's power ever again.
- Give a random player a bomb.  I will announce at the beginning of the day phase which player has the bomb.  During the day phase, that player may throw the bomb at whatever player they choose.  That player will die. (TWG XLII: Waluigi Time

3. Henry VIII (England) – Wolf Painter – Can call for an immediate lynching of the player with the most votes, thereby ending the current day phase; one use only. If a KitB results, he can choose the player to be lynched. If no votes have been cast it functions like a KitB. People who haven't voted yet do not get a phantom counted against them. (TWG XXXVII - Time for a History Lesson)

4. Mr. Mutou - Sends a message to the Host every Night Phase with the name of a Player.  That Player's power will fail(/be negated).  Can send a message to the Host during any Phase, multiple times in the same Phase if needed, with the name of a Player and a Role.  If the Player and Role correlate, the Player will die.  If not, Mr. Mutou may not expel that Role or Player from the game. (TWG XXX: Disability Girls)

The Protectors of Mankind(Humans):

5. Master Swordsman- Magnus - Morph – During the day he will select a username (by PM) and effectively "become" that player for the course of the following night. (TWG XL: Uprising Madness)

6. Doctor Emmett Brown – Psychic
Built a time machine out of a DeLorean, presumably to travel the Space-Time Continuum in style; he can take another player of his choosing to either the future or past. Going to the past allows both players to adjust their votes from one day to a different player; going to the future will give them safe passage to the next day phase. He carries Gray's Almanac, granting the holder a tally of used powers throughout the game. The Almanac can only be used once all game, meaning the reader will only be told everything once he/she uses it. The player is allowed to give the Gray's Almanac to another player. (TWG XLVII - Relax, I'm a Doctor)
 
7. Oracle - Every night, can choose a player.  If the Oracle dies that night or the next day phase, that player's role will be revealed to the thread. (TWG XXI. A Lesson in Etiquette.)

8. Werewolf Sonic (During the day he will seer BLUE, but will seer RED at night due to his werewolf form (remains human throughout). His incredible endurance allows him to take any combination of 2 vigi's/wolfings before going down. When Sonic is wolfed/vigi'd the first time, it will be exclaimed that "Sonic has been wolfed/vigi'd! (1)." On the second kill, the player's name will be used normally, stating "Player X has been wolfed/vigid"). Werewolf Sonic knows who he is. NOTE: Werewolf Sonic an be ohko'd by Mr. Mutou. (TWG XXXIII: Beat Those Eggs Jimmy!)

⑨. Cirno - Guardian - Able to make one ice shield per turn in order to protect a player. NOTE: Doesn't protect from Mr. Mutou. (TWG XII - The Second Great Fairy War)

10. Maya Fey - Medium - Every Night phase, can PM the host two y/n questions to ask any dead player in the game.  At the end of the phase, the Medium recieves the answers to the questions.  The dead person doesn't have to be truthful in answering these questions. (TWG XVI: Objection!)

11. Hero of Mind - Sends the name of a player and is told who they are targeting. (TWG XXXI: Just Another SBURB Session)

12. Human (TWG in general)

13. Scientist - Herring Will be told he's a normal human. (TWG XXVIII: Pokémon Black and White)

14. Millwright- Will be told he's a normal human. (TWG XXIV: Sauce Is Pretty Coll)

15. The Pain, as portrayed by Nicholas Cage - Will be told he's a normal human. As long as The Pain is alive, there will be a buzzing noise at the start of every Day Phase. (TWG XXXVIII: Snakes on a Plane)

16. Tingle - Brutal Human When killed, a randomly chosen, blue human will die. (TWG XLVIII: 72 Hours Remaining)
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on March 30, 2013, 03:16:24 PM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on February 23, 2013, 06:38:18 PM
Spoiler
TWG: After the Shadow

Space Invaders; Wolves
1: Shadow Leader: Takes two hits to kill; if he dies, Agent 819 dies as well.
2: Invader General: Brutal Wolf
3: Invader Minion: Wolf

Valiant Heroes; Humans
4: Agent 819: Human vigi; if he is killed, Shadow Leader dies as well.
5: Commander Bailey: Guardian (cannot guard himself); cannot be vigi'd.
6: Captain Doug: Seer; cannot be vigi'd.
7: Soldier: Human.
8: Soldier: Human.
9: Soldier: Human.
10: Soldier: Human.
11: Soldier: Human.
12: Soldier: Human miller; is told he's a normal human.

Former Minions; Rogues
13: Ryu-jin: Rogue Seer; if the Mega Golem copies Captain Doug, Ryu-jin becomes a vigilante.
14: Mega Golem: Once per game, can name one player, and gains their power and color (does not affect the selected player).

Wolf Victory Condition:
# of Humans + # of Rogues = # of wolves

Human Victory Condition:
All wolves and at least one rogue have been eliminated.

Rogue Victory Condition:
Wolves have been eliminated and # of rogues = # of humans.


Wolves know who their partners are, and rogues know who their partner is.
[close]

Speaking of changes... Ryu-jin now becomes a vigilante if the Mega Golem happens to copy the seer.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on March 30, 2013, 04:01:59 PM
What is the point of a miller being orange if no other character is orange?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on March 30, 2013, 04:06:02 PM
Quote from: blueflower999 on March 30, 2013, 04:01:59 PMWhat is the point of a miller being orange if no other character is orange?
?? The miller is red, just like two of the wolves ??
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 30, 2013, 05:08:34 PM
I think the whole point of a milright is so that a player can be uniquely identified as that role. This can be good for alliance leaders and stuff.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 30, 2013, 08:51:44 PM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on March 30, 2013, 05:08:34 PMI think the whole point of a milright is so that a player can be uniquely identified as that role. This can be good for alliance leaders and stuff.
This is correct.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 31, 2013, 06:37:11 AM
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on March 30, 2013, 05:56:47 AMI fix'd the roles in my BFtP. I'll make more covering notes in a few days.

Spoiler
TWG LI: A Blast From the Past

The Evil Masterminds Throughout the Time(Wolves):

1. Skuntank - Master Wolf Coroner - Every time a player dies, Skuntank will find out that player's exact role. (TWG XXXIX: Perfect Apples)

2. Kamek: He's a fun wolf who can do one of two things each night phase.
- Direct the power of his choosing to a player of his choosing.  Like "I want Vermilionvermin to use his power on mastergamer_38." He may only use this once on each player.  For example, he may, on a future phase, redirect mastergamer_38's power to Vermilionvermin, but may never redirect Vermilionvermin's power ever again.
- Give a random player a bomb.  I will announce at the beginning of the day phase which player has the bomb.  During the day phase, that player may throw the bomb at whatever player they choose.  That player will die. (TWG XLII: Waluigi Time

3. Henry VIII (England) – Wolf Painter – Can call for an immediate lynching of the player with the most votes, thereby ending the current day phase; one use only. If a KitB results, he can choose the player to be lynched. If no votes have been cast it functions like a KitB. People who haven't voted yet do not get a phantom counted against them. (TWG XXXVII - Time for a History Lesson)

4. Mr. Mutou - Sends a message to the Host every Night Phase with the name of a Player.  That Player's power will fail(/be negated).  Can send a message to the Host during any Phase, multiple times in the same Phase if needed, with the name of a Player and a Role.  If the Player and Role correlate, the Player will die.  If not, Mr. Mutou may not expel that Role or Player from the game. (TWG XXX: Disability Girls)

The Protectors of Mankind(Humans):

5. Master Swordsman- Magnus - Morph – During the day he will select a username (by PM) and effectively "become" that player for the course of the following night. (TWG XL: Uprising Madness)

6. Doctor Emmett Brown – Psychic
Built a time machine out of a DeLorean, presumably to travel the Space-Time Continuum in style; he can take another player of his choosing to either the future or past. Going to the past allows both players to adjust their votes from one day to a different player; going to the future will give them safe passage to the next day phase. He carries Gray's Almanac, granting the holder a tally of used powers throughout the game. The Almanac can only be used once all game, meaning the reader will only be told everything once he/she uses it. The player is allowed to give the Gray's Almanac to another player. (TWG XLVII - Relax, I'm a Doctor)
 
7. Oracle - Every night, can choose a player.  If the Oracle dies that night or the next day phase, that player's role will be revealed to the thread. (TWG XXI. A Lesson in Etiquette.)

8. Werewolf Sonic (During the day he will seer BLUE, but will seer RED at night due to his werewolf form (remains human throughout). His incredible endurance allows him to take any combination of 2 vigi's/wolfings before going down. When Sonic is wolfed/vigi'd the first time, it will be exclaimed that "Sonic has been wolfed/vigi'd! (1)." On the second kill, the player's name will be used normally, stating "Player X has been wolfed/vigid"). Werewolf Sonic knows who he is. NOTE: Werewolf Sonic an be ohko'd by Mr. Mutou. (TWG XXXIII: Beat Those Eggs Jimmy!)

⑨. Cirno - Guardian - Able to make one ice shield per turn in order to protect a player. NOTE: Doesn't protect from Mr. Mutou. (TWG XII - The Second Great Fairy War)

10. Maya Fey - Medium - Every Night phase, can PM the host two y/n questions to ask any dead player in the game.  At the end of the phase, the Medium recieves the answers to the questions.  The dead person doesn't have to be truthful in answering these questions. (TWG XVI: Objection!)

11. Hero of Mind - Sends the name of a player and is told who they are targeting. (TWG XXXI: Just Another SBURB Session)

12. Human (TWG in general)

13. Scientist - Herring Will be told he's a normal human. (TWG XXVIII: Pokémon Black and White)

14. Millwright- Will be told he's a normal human. (TWG XXIV: Sauce Is Pretty Coll)

15. The Pain, as portrayed by Nicholas Cage - Will be told he's a normal human. As long as The Pain is alive, there will be a buzzing noise at the start of every Day Phase. (TWG XXXVIII: Snakes on a Plane)

16. Tingle - Brutal Human When killed, a randomly chosen, blue human will die. (TWG XLVIII: 72 Hours Remaining)
[close]

I think the humans are still overpowered in this game.
Brown's description says that the ability to travel in time is used through his time machine, and is therefore not a power of himself (this was also the way it was used in RiaD, and since you said you were keeping the roles close to their original, I'm assuming the time machine is an item). This means that that power can not be negated by Mutou. This means that when he uses it during day 1, he'll be protected during that day and the following night phase. In case he's counterclaimed, he'll just say what person he's taking with him, and there will be an attempt to lynch that player, and if he doesn't die, that person is the real Brown. This also means that Brown has two phases (or at least one night phase if he's counterclaimed) to create an alliance. Needless to say, with only seven players that are not confirmed humans and the very powerfull ability of Magnus, enableing him to KO Mutou once he morphs into him, and finding out the other wolves easily.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on March 31, 2013, 06:48:08 AM
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on March 30, 2013, 05:56:47 AMI'll make more covering notes in a few days.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 31, 2013, 10:12:47 PM
FSM, Wolves are too overpowered.

In a day phase, they can easily cause mass deaths. If Henry Immeaditly votes for someone, and Kamek uses his power, that's two human deaths already.

Plus, if anyone claims truthfully, Mutou can kill them, causing who knows how many more deaths, plus, on the 1/8 chance one of the people killed is Tingle, another person can die.

So a number of things can happen.

Night one

Wolves kill somebody.
Kamek sets his bomb.

7-4

Day one
Henry ends day phase instantly, killing person of his choice.
Kameks bomb explodes and kills holder.

5-4

Night 2.

Wolves Wolf someone

4-4 and wolves win.


or

Night one

Wolves kill somebody.
Kamek sets his bomb.

7-4

Day one
Henry ends day phase instantly, killing person of his choice.
Kameks bomb explodes and kills holder.
Tingle randomly kills special.

4-4.

So you should either

A. Change Henry to Michael Jackson or a normal wolf, and Change tingle to someone else.

or

B. Change Kamek to King Boo and Change tingle to someone else.

inb4 I miss something that makes humans stronger than wolves.



Also, in other news, I'm making a game based on Trouble in Terrorist Town.

Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on March 31, 2013, 11:19:41 PM
And Here it is!

TWG [Insert number here]: Trouble in Terrorist Town.

Universal effects.
Health bar: If someone uses a certain action on someone (Sword, C4) They drain part of their health bar, if someone's health runs out, they die.
For example
O O O O O
This means that they are at full health, if someone strikes them with a sword.
O O O O.
They are at 4/5 health.

Locations:
In the town, there are 8 areas, as follows.
Minerva Prison Island: Can only be reached by the Big Bridge, can only go to the big Bridge.
The Big Bridge: Connects East District to Minerva Prison Island.
Central: Can go anywhere except For big Bridge and the Prison Island.
Shop: Can only be reached via Central, Items cannot be used here.
North District: Can reach central, East district, and West District.
East District: Can Reach the Big Bridge, North and South District.
South District: Can Reach East and West district
West District: Can Reach South and North District.

Every phase, players can move from one district to another, as long as they follow the limitations.

Karma: Before people come in and say that this game encourages random killing. I'll explain this.
In this game, there is a heaven and hell, If you reach heaven, you cannot die. If you reach hell, you instantly die and I will ban you from all my games until you can prove to me that you're not a fucking retard.

Here's a graph
Heaven
_
_
_
Earth
_
_
_
Hell.
If you kill a wolf, you go up two stages.
If you kill a human, you go down one stage.
If you go for two phases without killing anyone you go down or up a stage, depending on wether you're closer to heaven or hell.
If you attempt to kill the host, you go down to the stage right before hell.
If you attack the detective in the phase after he claimed, you go straight to hell.

Money: At the start of the game, everyone gets $500 to spend in the shop,  they can also be picked off dead bodies, or randomly get given to people.


Roles:
Wolf with sword.
Wolf with paintbrush
Wolf with C4

Dectective: After night 2, can look at a dead body and either
1.   Find out that dead players exact role.
2.   Find out who killed that person.

Human
Huamn
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human
Human

Items:
Items for everyone.

Sword: Will deplete someone's health by 1/5th of their health. $500 from the shop area.

Armour: First attack used against you doesn't work. $1000 from the shop area.

Paintbrush: Paints. $500

Items for wolves only.
C4: Sends whoever it is used on to 1/5th of their health, if they are on one heart, it kills them instantly. Wolf needs to have killed one person to get this.

Sniper gun: Can deplete someone's health from another area. Wolf needs to have killed 3 people to get this.

Jihad bomb: This is where it gets fun, if the Jihad bomb is used whoever uses it begins screaming, at the end of the phase when they started screaming, whatever area  they are in explodes, killing everyone in that area, destroying their items, and preventing anyone from getting in that area.











BLARGH.
 
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 01, 2013, 12:10:05 AM
Quote from: Yugi on March 31, 2013, 11:17:36 PMIf you reach hell, you instantly die and I will ban you from all my games until you can prove to me that you're not a fucking retard.

If you attempt to kill the host, you go down to the stage right before hell.
If you attack the detective in the phase after he claimed, you go straight to hell.

Huamn

Jihad bomb: This is where it gets fun, if the Jihad bomb is used whoever uses it begins screaming, at the end of the phase when they started screaming, whatever area  they are in explodes, killing everyone in that area, destroying their items, and preventing anyone from getting in that area.
Best parts of the game. :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2013, 10:26:24 PM
guys i actually made a game (sort of)

Spoiler
TWG ___: The Promised Day
Wolves:
Father –seered green, once a night phase can choose a player that he then turns into a homunculus, can only be lynched when the majority votes for him (insta)
Gluttony/Lust/Envy/ahh I cant decide -
Pride -

Humans:
Roy Mustang –
Riza Hawkeye (sniper) –one snipe usage, cannot snipe Mustang (if attempted snipe will be wasted),
Maes Hughes –if killed, the killer automatically dies (if lynched, the deciding voter is killed)
Edward Elric –cannot become a homunculus
Alphonse Elric –unable to be wolfed, if chosen by Father, Alphonse automatically dies
Winry Rockbell– able to revive Edward in exchange for her own life
Van Hoenheim (miller)- one chance to guess for Father, if finds him he loses all power and turns red, Hoenheim turns green, all homunculi change into their original forms again

  • Wolves do not know each other
  • If wolves are chosen by Father, Father gets negated (same as Hoenheim guessing him)
  • Homunculi count as wolves but cannot vote in the wolfing
  • Edward is told who Winry is through his role pm, and vice versa

The Taboo:
No player may announce to the thread or by pm for players to claim to them. If a player attempts to draw claims by more than one third of all the players playing, they will be automatically killed by the host (Truth). However, players may voluntarily tell another their role. Remember, Truth is All and One, so he/she will know if anyone tries to find a loophole
[close]

I can tell already this is horribly unbalanced, so I left some blank spaces to fill in later
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on April 01, 2013, 10:30:16 PM
I endorse your game, Bubbles. I'll be willing to help you finish it and iron out the details, if a TWC Member doesn't step foward.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2013, 10:36:22 PM
:D

Mostly I'm worried about the Taboo. Can that even be pulled off effectively without the players complaining too much?

not to mention the taboo in the actual show gets broken alot
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on April 01, 2013, 10:40:12 PM
I'm much too tired to look at it critically right now, but I'll be sure to look at it critically at my next earliest convenience.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on April 01, 2013, 10:49:58 PM
The process for deciding who dies and who doesn't seems pretty arbitrary. 

Does publicly claiming a role count as "drawing claims by more than a third of all players playing"?  If so, then you open up a whole new can of worms as to what constitutes publicly claiming a role.

Does lynching someone for not claiming to that person count?  At that point, you're coercing someone into claiming a role, but it's absurd for a host to kill people who vote using a certain type of logic.

Personally I probably won't vote for this one regardless because I dislike games in which everyone knows their role and games where the wolves don't know each other, but I think there are issues beyond that.

I also think the humans are given way too little margin for error.  If the humans' first kill isn't a wolf, they in all likelihood lose.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 01, 2013, 10:50:57 PM
I'd say that, currently, the part of the game to worry about balancing the most would be the Homunculi... I think you should add/change a few players who cannot be converted, almost like Uprising Madness, in a way.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2013, 11:03:18 PM
Quote from: vermilionvermin on April 01, 2013, 10:49:58 PMThe process for deciding who dies and who doesn't seems pretty arbitrary. 

Does publicly claiming a role count as "drawing claims by more than a third of all players playing"?  If so, then you open up a whole new can of worms as to what constitutes publicly claiming a role.

Does lynching someone for not claiming to that person count?  At that point, you're coercing someone into claiming a role, but it's absurd for a host to kill people who vote using a certain type of logic.

Personally I probably won't vote for this one regardless because I dislike games in which everyone knows their role and games where the wolves don't know each other, but I think there are issues beyond that.

I also think the humans are given way too little margin for error.  If the humans' first kill isn't a wolf, they in all likelihood lose.

ahh those are good points

I would say that publicly claiming a role wouldn't count necessarily, but if that player then directs people to claim to them it will. When I think about that again, players would "voluntarily" tell the person who claimed their role, which basically destroys the whole concept :/ I was just trying to find a way to let everyone have a special power while preventing one person from claiming and basically weeding out the wolves

I was going to make the wolves know each other originally, but I thought that it wouldn't be fair enough to the humans if the only possible way to negate Father's ability was for Hoenheim to guess him (with only one guess to boot)

Also, what about it makes the humans have too little room for mistake? Should I change Hoenheim's one guess for Father to a guess every day/night phase?

@BDS Technically theres 4 player that cannot become homunculi (the two wolves, Edward, and Alphonse). Is that enough?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 01, 2013, 11:09:22 PM
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on April 01, 2013, 11:03:18 PM@BDS Technically theres 4 player that cannot become homunculi (the two wolves, Edward, and Alphonse). Is that enough?
Well...
The two wolves don't count, since:
1: I assume the wolves know each other?
2: It wouldn't have an effect on them anyway, since they're already wolves. :P

And Alphonse dies when he's targeted, which doesn't help the humans either...
The fact that there are 7 humans means that:
Night 1: A human is wolfed, and one is turned into a homunculus, meaning that, essentially, there are 5 humans and 4 wolves.
Day 1: A humans is lynched. 4 humans and 4 wolves; wolves win.

Shortest game ever. :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bubbles on April 01, 2013, 11:18:25 PM
Hmm...I could add on a few more humans?

And the wolves do not know each other. That makes it so that if a wolf is attempted to be turned into a homunculi, Father loses his powers and all homunculi are released
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 02, 2013, 12:30:36 AM
Quote from: Bubbles7689 on April 01, 2013, 11:18:25 PMHmm...I could add on a few more humans?

And the wolves do not know each other. That makes it so that if a wolf is attempted to be turned into a homunculi, Father loses his powers and all homunculi are released
Both of those sound good (maybe add two more humans??); just in case, you should specify in the game description (about the second part).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bubbles on April 02, 2013, 11:18:59 AM
I already did :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on April 04, 2013, 12:59:55 AM
And Here I was thinking that I would get some serious crituque for my game.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: Waddle Bro on April 05, 2013, 04:43:26 AM
TWG: Hot Bob-Omb: BOWSER's Return!!!

Rules: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psuAJu3DSFo

The objective is to bomb BOWSER with the BOB-OMBS!!!(or lynch him but bombing him is the more classier way)

Each Day Phase one(for the first two Day Phases, two!) randomly chosen player(s) gets a BOB-OMB. BOWSER can choose the time point when the bombs explode(but it has to be after 12 hours from the beginning of the phase!). The players can toss the BOB-OMBs at each other as many times as they want. The tosses will be public, so if you got the BOB-OMB just post in the thread something like this: I'll toss the BOB-OMB at Player 1. Bolding is a must have.
The player who exploded cannot be lynched.
Anyone who fails to capitalize BOWSER or BOB-OMB will get a phantom, this time 4 realz.

Roles:
1. BOWSER

2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
13. Human
14. Human
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on April 06, 2013, 12:55:52 PM
First of all, the idea is fucking amazing.

Second of all, I'm assuming that a player can only hold one bomb.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing Guide
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 08, 2013, 09:45:45 PM
???
TWG: An Odd Absence of Logic

Odd Wolves
1: Master Wolf: Odd wolf seered red.
2: Charismatic Wolf: Odd wolf; lynch vote counts for two votes.

Odd Humans
3: Seer: Can seer one player per night.
4: Oddseer: Like a Drunken Seer; may seer players red, blue, or green, but not the color that they actually are. Is told he's the normal seer.
5: Human: Odd human.
6: Human: Odd human.
7: Human: Odd human.
8: Human: Odd human.
9: Human: Odd human.
10: Human: Odd human.
11: Human: Odd human.
12: Oddmiller: Odd human seered green; knows he's the Oddmiller.
[close]

The change of colors is mainly for humorous effect.

Possible changes:
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on April 08, 2013, 09:54:32 PM
Does the Oddseer know he's the oddseer or does he think he's a normal seer?  If he thinks he's the normal seer that's a cool gimmick.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 08, 2013, 09:57:23 PM
Quote from: vermilionvermin on April 08, 2013, 09:54:32 PMDoes the Oddseer know he's the oddseer or does he think he's a normal seer?  If he thinks he's the normal seer that's a cool gimmick.
Yeah; I forgot to add that!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on April 08, 2013, 09:58:49 PM
I think it'd be cool if the Oddseer would think he's the real seer.

And I think 12 players aren't enough.

ninja'd x2 WHAT
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 08, 2013, 10:07:00 PM
Quote from: Waddle Bro on April 08, 2013, 09:58:49 PMI think it'd be cool if the Oddseer would think he's the real seer.

And I think 12 players aren't enough.

ninja'd x2 WHAT
I just forgot to put that information about the Oddseer.

And I'll add one more wolf and another human; do you think the wolf should have any powers, or just be a standard wolf (not necessarily "standard," though)?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on April 10, 2013, 07:41:30 PM
TWG [Number holder]: Catherine

Wolves:
Thomas Mutton: Master Wolf.

Catherine (Succubi Wolf): Every night Phase, can select a male player and touch them, making them fall in love with her. After one full day (1 day, 1 night) they have sex with her, killing them. Effect has no effect on female roles, cannot kill Vincent. Can also paint players, but this means that she can't infect a player.

Humans:

Katherine: Can pretend to have been impregnated a player every day phase, causing them to fall out of love with a succubus/incubus.

Orlando Haddick: Seer, doesn't become a seer unless Vincent Picks Catherine path.

5x Male Humans
2x Female humans (are immune to impregnation and succubi techniques)
1x Futanari (miller)

Third party Role.
Vincent: Cannot be wolved, every day phase, can choose either to
•   Get a drink at the bar (Gives Vincent one Freedom Point)
•   Sleep with Catherine (Gives Vincent one Catherine Point)
•   Have dinner with Katherine (Gives Vincent one Katherine Point)
When Vincent gets 3 of a certain person's point, certain things may happen.

•   If he gets 3 Freedom Points, both Katherine and Catherine die and he becomes a third party role intent on killing everyone else. He also gains a vigi power which he can use every phase.
•   If he gets 3 Catherine points, Katherine dies and Vincent becomes a wolf and Orlando turns into a seer.
•   If he gets 3 Katherine points, Catherine dies and Vincent becomes a human with guardian powers, he also learns the identity of Katherine and the futanari turns into a normal wolf.

Objectives
Wolves: Lower human count to same as wolf count.
Humans: Kill all wolves.
Vincent (If he chooses freedom): Become the last human.

Can someone please help me balance this?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on April 10, 2013, 08:05:09 PM
Wow I can't believe I'm posting here

Does Vincent actively choose which action to take? If so, he can just choose to go to the bar every day phase in order to kill off Catherine and Katherine, and get his vigi power. Seems a little unfair.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 10, 2013, 08:16:00 PM
Hey, Yugi-Fox!! I really like the idea that Vincent can choose what he does; I was considering making an idea for a game based off of inFAMOUS 2 with a similar choice (e.g. Cole can turn evil and become a wolf, or turn good and become a special human).

Quote from: Dudeman on April 10, 2013, 08:05:09 PMWow I can't believe I'm posting here

Does Vincent actively choose which action to take? If so, he can just choose to go to the bar every day phase in order to kill off Catherine and Katherine, and get his vigi power. Seems a little unfair.
But realize that, if the humans form an alliance, he's likely to be found and lynched later in the game (or, at least I think??).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: vermilionvermin on April 10, 2013, 08:35:57 PM
The main issue with your game, Yugi, is that Vincent's choice can make the game really unbalanced.  If he sides with the wolves, the humans lose their only special and have to lynch three wolves.  And at some point multiple humans could begin dying per night.  In order to win, the humans would get maybe 1 mislynch, which is pretty unreasonable without any specials.  If he sides with the humans, it's a manhunt with a secret alliance.  I don't know why he would choose freedom when it's easier to win as a wolf.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on April 11, 2013, 02:19:04 AM
So, if he either chooses Catherine or Katherine, make them both lovers? (So if one dies, the other dies as well)? And adding more humans?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on April 19, 2013, 12:50:45 AM
TWG [Number holder]: Catherine

Wolves:
Thomas Mutton: Master Wolf.

Catherine (Succubi Wolf): Every night Phase, can select a male player and touch them, making them fall in love with her. After one full day (1 day, 1 night) they have sex with her, killing them. Effect has no effect on female roles, cannot kill Vincent. Can also paint players, but this means that she can't infect a player.

Humans:

Katherine: Can pretend to have been impregnated a player every day phase, causing them to fall out of love with a succubus/incubus.

Orlando Haddick: Seer.

5x Male Humans
2x Female humans (are immune to impregnation and succubi techniques)
1x Futanari (miller)

Third party Role.
Vincent: Cannot be wolved, every day phase, can choose either to
•   Get a drink at the bar (Gives Vincent one Freedom Point)
•   Sleep with Catherine (Gives Vincent one Catherine Point)
•   Have dinner with Katherine (Gives Vincent one Katherine Point)
When Vincent gets 3 of a certain person's point, certain things may happen.

•   If he gets 3 Freedom Points, both Katherine and Catherine die and he becomes a third party role intent on killing everyone else. He also gains a vigi power which he can use every phase.
•   If he gets 3 Catherine points, Katherine dies and Vincent becomes a wolf who is in love with Catherine (if one dies, the other dies as well).
•   If he gets 3 Katherine points, Catherine dies and Vincent becomes a human with guardian powers, he also learns the identity of Katherine and they become lovers.

Objectives
Wolves: Lower human count to same as wolf count.
Humans: Kill all wolves.
Vincent (If he chooses freedom): Become the last human.

Can someone please help me balance this?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on April 19, 2013, 01:27:29 AM
Did you really have to repost the entire game? :P :P
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: fank009 on April 19, 2013, 01:31:00 AM
Quote from: vermilionvermin on April 10, 2013, 08:35:57 PMThe main issue with your game, Yugi, is that Vincent's choice can make the game really unbalanced.  If he sides with the wolves, the humans lose their only special and have to lynch three wolves.  And at some point multiple humans could begin dying per night.  In order to win, the humans would get maybe 1 mislynch, which is pretty unreasonable without any specials.  If he sides with the humans, it's a manhunt with a secret alliance.  I don't know why he would choose freedom when it's easier to win as a wolf.
I agree, (in my knowledge of the game...) It really turns the game into a game of what will x do, and thats how the game will go.

what we really need is a substitute, to cover whatever vincent decides (as soon as vincent goes human, its auto win...)

Wolves are too reliant on vincent choosing wolves, and humans are left stranded without a paddle and it will be (as good as) game IF he converts. The setup relies too much on (a slice of) luck, and getting rid of catherine as soon as possible.

I think, If seer was immune to succubi, that will keep whatever power humans have alive as an inkling of hope (unless im reading the meta wrong)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on April 19, 2013, 04:33:09 AM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on April 19, 2013, 01:27:29 AMDid you really have to repost the entire game? :P :P
pro tip:

Spoiler
spoiler tags
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on April 19, 2013, 12:42:31 PM
TWG: Fwend
 
A long time ago there was a lonely Wolf. All he wanted was a 'Fwend', but nobody liked him so we went to see a Wizard about getting some powers. The Wolf managed to bribe the Wizard to give him a power that would allow him to become friends with the dead. This was all working well until the Human people found out he was messing with their dead Grandpa's and Grandma's. When the town people wanted a battle the Wolf went back to the Wizard and bribed him again for a power that would kill any living person who touched the Wolf. When the Humans found out about this they kept away from the Wolf and phoned up 2 secret agents to sort out the Wolf. Unfortunetly the agents were Japanese and no one could tell them what was happening. All the agents knew was that someone was a Wolf and they had to work together to kill them...
 
 
Roles:
 
01. Loose Cannon Wolf Recruiter
 
02. Wizard
03. Seer
04. Seer
05. Human
06. Human
07. Human
08. Human
09. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
 
 
Role Definitions:
 
Loose Cannon Wolf Recruiter - Anyone who targets him during the night will die. Can revive one person each night and turn them into a Wolf Follower. Is aware of who the Wizard is.
 
Wolf Follower - Knows and wins with the Loose Cannon Wolf Recruiter.
 
Wizard - Is told he is a Human. If he dies all the Wolf Follower's die too and the Loose Cannon Wolf Recruiter cannot create any more Wolf Follower's.
 
Seer - Each night can find out the name of a player.
 
Human - Just a regular Human with no abilities.
 
 
Win Conditions:
 
Wolf - Loose Cannon Wolf Recruiter + Wolf Follower's Humans
 
Human - Loose Cannon Wolf Recruiter = 0
 
 
Things to note:
 
- No lynch is not allowed
- Roles are revealed on death
- Nights last 24 hours, days last 48 hours with exception to extentions.
- You receive a phantom for not paticipating during the phase, they only people to know about phantoms are the host and the player receiving one. A phantom is 0.01 votes, if you receive 2 phantoms you'll be replaced. Phantoms will not be given if the host is aware of your absence beforehandthough you may be replaced depending on the situation.
- Night start
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on April 21, 2013, 09:02:42 AM
:(
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on April 21, 2013, 09:08:52 AM
I personally am against games that have converters.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on April 21, 2013, 09:45:59 AM
But But But it's a revive convertor.

Just realized Verm's zombie game had the same-ish mechanich.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on April 21, 2013, 10:34:39 PM
I finally have a proper computer again, so to celebrate I'm building a special Super TWGTM!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on April 21, 2013, 10:49:23 PM
\O/
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on May 27, 2013, 01:24:25 PM
4 hosting pro-tips:

1. Say who won the game in the post-game (e.g. congratulation wolves!)
2. Make clear whether the wolves know each other at the beginning of the game
3. Make clear whether or not screenshots are allowed
4. Either make your human PMs minimal ("Human"), or post the human PM in the thread. If you send a PM that says "you're a stinky smelly human," to all the humans, then somebody posts "I'm a stinky, smelly human," all the other players will know that the only way he would know to say stinky and smelly was if that player was actually a human. Don't confirm human roles with sloppy PMs!

And I was talking about this with someone in the chat, so I might as well bring it up here. As things are now, we don't ban hosts from hosting if they do a bad job. If a host never updates on time, and never creates a post-game, there is no rule saying they shouldn't host again. However, when you vote in the hosting poll, keep in mind you are voting for the host as well as for the game. If you think a player should be punished for being a bad host, just don't vote for them!

Man, so many fun TWC posts today.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on May 28, 2013, 12:37:28 AM
TWG [Number holder]: Catherine

Wolves:
Thomas Mutton: Master Wolf.

Catherine (Succubi Wolf): Every night Phase, can select a male player and touch them, making them fall in love with her. After one full day (1 day, 1 night) they have sex with her, killing them. Effect has no effect on female roles, cannot kill Vincent. Can also paint players, but this means that she can't infect a player.

Humans:

Katherine: Can pretend to have been impregnated a player every day phase, causing them to fall out of love with a succubus/incubus.

Orlando Haddick: Seer, doesn't become a seer unless Vincent Picks Catherine path.

5x Male Humans
2x Female humans (are immune to impregnation and succubi techniques)
1x Futanari (miller)

Third party Role.
Vincent: Cannot be wolved, every day phase, can choose either to
•   Get a drink at the bar (Gives Vincent one Freedom Point)
•   Sleep with Catherine (Gives Vincent one Catherine Point)
•   Have dinner with Katherine (Gives Vincent one Katherine Point)
When Vincent gets 3 of a certain person's point, certain things may happen.

•   If he gets 3 Freedom Points, both Katherine and Catherine die and he becomes a third party role intent on killing everyone else. He also gains a vigi power which he can use every phase.
•   If he gets 3 Catherine points, Katherine dies and Vincent becomes a wolf and Orlando turns into a seer.
•   If he gets 3 Katherine points, Catherine dies and Vincent becomes a human with guardian powers, he also learns the identity of Katherine and the futanari turns into a normal wolf.

Objectives
Wolves: Lower human count to same as wolf count.
Humans: Kill all wolves.
Vincent (If he chooses freedom): Become the last human.

Can someone please help me balance this?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 28, 2013, 01:23:20 AM
Quote from: Yugi on May 28, 2013, 12:37:28 AMCan someone please help me balance this?
Badger Mashi.
Like This
(http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/960/badgers.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dude on May 28, 2013, 03:24:01 PM
*whacks BDS repeatedly with something smelly and gross*
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FSM-Reapr on May 30, 2013, 07:20:48 AM
On the TWG LV, Silence Will Fall.

Get hyped.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on May 30, 2013, 08:14:28 PM
TWG: [Title Holder]
Universal Effects
 Order of Powers: Protect Girls > Wolfing > Garnet's Revive > Kuja's Revive
Wolves don't know each other

Wolves
Kuja  (Master Wolf Converter): Starting from Night 2, he can infuse a soul into a dead body, making them lose their power, colour and vote, and making them count for the wolf side
Garland: Wolf

Humans:
Zidane (Pervert): Can guard someone every night, but Guard will only work on female roles.

Garnet (White Mage): Can revive someone every night.   

Freya  (Blue Mage): Automatically copies any power used on it, has a seer power at the start.

Human x 8

If you can guess the theme behind this game you win a cookie.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on May 30, 2013, 08:19:29 PM
Final Fantasy 9
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on May 30, 2013, 08:20:03 PM
Did you look that up?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Liggy on May 31, 2013, 04:06:05 AM
What gender are the human and special roles?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on May 31, 2013, 04:10:10 AM
Kuja's Both Male and female.
Garland's Male.

Zidane's Male.
Garnet's Female
Freya's Male

4 Humans are male, the other Female.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on May 31, 2013, 08:52:03 AM
Quote from: Yugi on May 30, 2013, 08:20:03 PMDid you look that up?
Totes not  ;)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on June 02, 2013, 08:43:07 AM
Quote from: FSM-Reapr on May 30, 2013, 07:20:48 AMOn the TWG LV, Silence Will Fall.

Get hyped.

OH MY GOD YESSSSSSSS
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on June 09, 2013, 02:20:27 AM
TWG [Number Holder]: FULL METAL ALCHEMIST

Wolves:

Father (Master Wolf Alchemist): Can get a dead body, and turn it into an homunculus, can only die through an Insta.

Real Wrath (Brutal Wolf)

Pride (Wolf)

Humans:

Edward Elric (Alchemist): Cannot become a homunculus, knows the identity of Winry Rockbell.
Alphonse Elric (Loose Cannon): If someone attempts to kill him, a gun is fired into the crowd, only works once. Can sacrifice this power for a guard. Cannot become a homunculus.
Winry Cockbell (Mason Reviver): Can Revive Edward, in exchange for her own life.

Roy Mustang (Alchemist)
General Armstrong (Alchemist)
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Soldier
Van Hoenhiem (Alchemist Miller)

Third Party:
2003 Wrath (Rouge Alchemist): Has a vigi that can be used every night phase, his objective is to have killed either Edward or the Real Wrath by the end of the game, because HE WANTS TO FEEL IMPORTANT TOO .

Game Mechanics:
The Law of Equivelent Exchange: Some roles have a subtitle saying Alchemist on them, these people have the ability to do good things, in exchange for bad things happening to them, think TWG 43.

Homniculus: Father can bring back a dead body as a homniculus, these people lose their power, and then count for the wolf side.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on June 09, 2013, 03:58:21 AM
Yugi, I think you should add numbers to the roles, because that makes it way more orderly. I think the humans are a bit underpowered, because they have no way of protecting the blues.


Now on to my next game idea:

TWG LV: The Choice is Doors

1. Wolf
2. Wolf
3. Wolf
4. Wolf
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
13. Human
14. Human
15. Human
16. Human

Wolves know eachother.

Rooms and Doors

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2rnhhqr.png)

There are 16 rooms in this game. At the start of the game, players are put into the rooms so that there is one player in each room.

Each room has four doors which connect them with other rooms. Rooms at the edge connect with rooms on the opposide edge, and rooms in the corner connect to the two non-opposite rooms in the corner (room 1, for example, connects with room 2, room 5, room 4 and room 13).

At the start of the game, all doors are closed. Doors can only be opened and closed during the night phase, and only from inside the room the door belongs to. There are two doors between each room, one of them can only be opened and closed from one room, and the other one from the other room. Starting from night 4, each door that has been closed for at least two night phases in a row, will automatically be opened, and vice versa.

During the day phase, players can move to any room they wish, as long as the road to that room is not obstructed by doors.

At the start of the game, and at the end of each night phase, players will recieve a PM telling them what rooms they can move to, and which players are in rooms the player cannot reach because there's one set of doors obstructing him.
Example 1: It's the start of the game. davy is in room 6, Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 5, Liggy is in room 7 and BlackDragonSlayer is in room 10. davy will recieve the following PM:
You are in room 6. You cannot move to any other room. Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 5, Liggy is in room 7 and BlackDragonSlayer is in room 10.
Example 2: It's near the end of the game. davy is in room 6. The doors between room 6 and 7, 6 and 10, 7 and 11 and 10 and 11 are open. The doors between room 6 and 2, 6 and 5, 7 and 3, 7 and 8, 10 and 9, 10 and 14, 11 and 15 and 11 and 12 are closed. Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 8, Liggy is in room 7, BlackDragonSlayer is in room 1 and Bubbles is in room 15. davy will recieve the following PM:
You are in room 6. you can move to room 7, room 10 and room 11. Liggy is in room 7, Yugi is in room 2, Mashi is in room 8 and Bubbles is in room 15. Room 3, 5, 9, 12 and 14 are empty.

Wolfings

Wolfings work differnt this game. Wolves can only wolf players that are in rooms that said wolf could reach last day phase. On the other hand, each wolf has a wolfing of his own, so it is possible that four players die during the same night phase.

Lynches

Like with wolfings, players can only lynch players that are in a room that said player can reach that day phase. Lynching votes are sent through PM rather than posted in the topic. Lynching will only occur when more than half of the players that could vote for the same player vote for the same player. Otherwise, there will just be no lynch. There could be multiple lynches each day phase because a player can be lynched in each set of rooms. Also, lynching is not obligatory in this game.

Semi-closed communication

This game features some sort of closed communication, which I like to call semi-closed communication. It means that you can only PM and have private chats with the host and players mentioned in your start of the game/end of the night PM. Also all information in your start of the game/end of the night PM, as well as information about your actions (wolfing, lynching, door opening/closing and moving) may only be shared through PM and private chat. Wolves can communicate freely with eachother, and can give eachother whatever information they like.

Order of action activating

Night phase: Wolfing>Door opening=Door closing
Day phase: Lynching>Moving

Phases

Because there are probably going to be a lot of phases this game and because there is less need to think about the lynch target, I have decided that both day and night phases will be 24 hours long. Also when all possible action PM's have been sent to me, or when each player that could still sent in an action PM has told me that he/she don't want to, I will end the phase early.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on June 09, 2013, 04:11:10 AM
I could have sworn that I made Alphonse a guardian.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bubbles on June 09, 2013, 12:27:05 PM
heyheyhey (http://img.pokemondb.net/artwork/corphish.jpg) you stole my game

Quote from: Bubbles7689 on April 01, 2013, 10:26:24 PM
TWG ___: The Promised Day
Wolves:
1. Father –seered green. Once a night phase can choose a player, turning them into a homunculus. Can only be lynched by an insta
2. Gluttony/Lust/Envy/ahh I cant decide -
3. Pride  -at any point in the game can PM the host the name and role of a player. If he correctly matches the role with the player, that player dies immediately. If he guesses incorrectly, that player is prevented from being guessed again.

Humans:
4. Roy Mustang –
5. Riza Hawkeye (sniper) –one snipe usage, cannot snipe Mustang (if attempted snipe will be wasted),
6. Maes Hughes –if killed, the killer automatically dies (if lynched, the deciding voter is killed, same with wolfings)
7. Edward Elric –cannot become a homunculus
8. Alphonse Elric –unable to be wolfed, if chosen by Father, Alphonse automatically dies
9. Winry Rockbell –able to revive only Edward in exchange for her own life
10. Van Hohenheim (miller)- one chance to guess for Father. If he guesses correctly, Father loses all power and turns red, Hoenheim turns green, and all homunculi change into their original forms again


I fixed the problem with the Taboo but kept the same idea by adding Pride's power (Basically Mr. Mutoh's power from TWG XXX: Disability Girls (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4289.0))
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on June 09, 2013, 01:51:06 PM
Quote from: davy on June 09, 2013, 03:58:21 AMSemi-closed communication

This game features some sort of closed communication, which I like to call semi-closed communication. It means that you can only PM and have private chats with the host and players mentioned in your start of the game/end of the night PM. Also all information in your start of the game/end of the night PM, as well as information about your actions (wolfing, lynching, door opening/closing and moving) may only be shared through PM and private chat. Wolves can communicate freely with eachother, and can give eachother whatever information they like.
Hrmmmmm...

Though, in my game, I did not include Private Chats... might be something good to add...
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on June 09, 2013, 04:33:01 PM
my game is better
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on June 09, 2013, 11:44:50 PM
Mine is!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on June 10, 2013, 01:18:15 AM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on June 09, 2013, 01:51:06 PMHrmmmmm...

Though, in my game, I did not include Private Chats... might be something good to add...

Sorry BDS, I completely forgot that you made a game that's very similar to mine. Maybe we should join forces and make a combined game (and host it together).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on June 10, 2013, 01:19:57 AM
Quote from: davy on June 10, 2013, 01:18:15 AMSorry BDS, I completely forgot that you made a game that's very similar to mine. Maybe we should join forces and make a combined game (and host it together).
In terms of the game itself, it's rather different; that feature just reminded me of the one in my game (planned game, rather). :P And I'm sure that many other people have had the idea before me even!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on June 10, 2013, 01:41:11 AM
I would find it diffucult to enforce the closed communication rules.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on June 10, 2013, 02:12:01 AM
Quote from: Yugi on June 10, 2013, 01:41:11 AMI would find it diffucult to enforce the closed communication rules.

Have I been playing too much FF6? Is there even such a thing as "too much"??

It might take a bit of time to get used to for the players/host (with accidental slip-ups, for example), but I think, as long as all the players are at least somewhat experienced, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on June 10, 2013, 07:52:11 AM
Closed communication is actually a very common thing but this forum doesn't like to be restricted for some reason :P!

My first game in the host signups (it was so messed up I didn't even understand balancing then) was closed communication.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on July 17, 2013, 02:55:41 PM
So here's my attempt to make a programming-themed TWG. It's Python because that's the only language I'm remotely familiar with.

print "TWG: Python"
1. sys.exit(): Wolf sniper. Can instakill one player in the middle of any phase. Can also guess while's identity each night phase: a correct guess will kill while (this doesn't count as sys.exit()'s instakill).
2. ==: Can guess the Boolean's identity once each in two different night phases. A correct guess switches the boolean from True to False. Also, can change print's totem to whatever they want once.
3. #: Roleblocker. Can block one player's power each night phase. This does not apply to while or the boolean.

4. assert: Guardian. Can't guard self.
5. type(): Seer.
6. print: Totem. Can post a totem up to twenty words long at the beginning of each day phase.
7. while: Cannot be killed while the boolean is True except by sys.exit(). If the boolean becomes False at any point dies immediately, and if the boolean dies loses its resistance to kills.
8. if: Can revive for one day phase after dying, allowing them to vote and count for victory conditions. Dies immediately at the end of that phase. Only works if the boolean is still alive and True.
9. boolean: True by default. When True it is seered green, if switched to False it is seered red. Knows they are the boolean.
10. math.sin(): Human.
11. math.cos(): Human.
12. math.tan(): Miller. Is unaware that they are the miller.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on July 28, 2013, 03:09:52 AM
I decided to revamp and rework one of my older games, please tell me what you think!

TWG [Number Holder]: The Cabin in the woods.


Roles:
The Murderers/Wolves:
1.   The Mastermind (Master Wolf): Seered Green.
2.   The Brute (Brutal Wolf): If killed, can choose someone to die with him.
3.   The Psycho (Normal wolf): Holds the ability to wolf, if he dies, the Brute gets it, if the Brute dies, the Mastermind gets it.

4.   The Scholar: Can pick a player every night phase, he then finds out what that players colour is.
5.   The Athlete (Guardian/Negator): Can guard someone every night phase, however, the guarded player loses their power, if he guards the Whore, and the Whore is selected for death, he becomes the meatshield, and if he guards the monster, he instantly dies.
6.   The Whore (Brutal Human): If Chosen for death, another player dies in her place, and a message is posted to the thread saying "[X], the whore, has ran upstairs!" Does not know that she is the whore.
7.   The Virgin: If chosen for death, she doesn't die, however, she loses he ability to vote, does not know that she is the virgin.
8.   Human
9.   Human
10.   Human
11.   Human
12.   Human
13.   Human
14.   Human
15.   The Fool (Miller): Seered Red. Does not know that he is the Fool.


Third Party:
16.   The Monster: Can at one point attack a player, if the monster dies, that player becomes the monster.

Objectives:
Wolves: Have the Monster dead and humans = wolves
Humans: Have the Monster and wolves dead.
Monster: Survive until the end of the game.


Is it good?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on July 28, 2013, 08:51:25 AM
Nope!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: blueflower999 on July 28, 2013, 10:32:24 AM
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRxkZYl52nJ7nq_c8y77kGhtQInk-zsj-zg1MshzigWSs7t1JP3BA)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on July 28, 2013, 02:45:28 PM
Guys, stop being rude!!


Nope, sorry!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on July 28, 2013, 03:19:42 PM
 :(
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Mashi on July 28, 2013, 05:38:18 PM
Your game isn't that bad, Yugi, just needs to be fixed at some points.  I'll PM you suggested changes in a bit when I finish opening my fast.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on July 29, 2013, 11:22:00 AM
Quote from: Yugi on July 28, 2013, 03:09:52 AMI decided to revamp and rework one of my older games, please tell me what you think!

TWG [Number Holder]: The Cabin in the woods.


Roles:
The Murderers/Wolves:
1.   The Mastermind (Master Wolf): Seered Green.
2.   The Brute (Brutal Wolf): If killed, can choose someone to die with him.
3.   The Psycho (Normal wolf): Holds the ability to wolf, if he dies, the Brute gets it, if the Brute dies, the Mastermind gets it.

4.   The Scholar: Can pick a player every night phase, he then finds out what that players colour is.
5.   The Athlete (Guardian/Negator): Can guard someone every night phase, however, the guarded player loses their power, if he guards the Whore, and the Whore is selected for death, he becomes the meatshield, and if he guards the monster, he instantly dies.
6.   The Whore (Brutal Human): If Chosen for death, another player dies in her place, and a message is posted to the thread saying "[X], the whore, has ran upstairs!" Does not know that she is the whore.
7.   The Virgin: If chosen for death, she doesn't die, however, she loses he ability to vote, does not know that she is the virgin.
8.   Human
9.   Human
10.   Human
11.   Human
12.   Human
13.   Human
14.   Human
15.   The Fool (Miller): Seered Red. Does not know that he is the Fool.


Third Party:
16.   The Monster: Can at one point attack a player, if the monster dies, that player becomes the monster.

Objectives:
Wolves: Have the Monster dead and humans = wolves
Humans: Have the Monster and wolves dead.
Monster: Survive until the end of the game.


Is it good?

Wolves are very standard except for the wolving ability changing owner. I don't actually like that change because that means if the wolfing member of the wolves in inactive, the team is unable to make a wolfing.

I always dislike the combination of a investigation special role and a guard role that cannot guard eachother. It causes the humans to have no alliance, and I always prefer alliance games over non-alliance games, but that's just my opinion. The Whore is a very tricky role that makes the game a lot more luck based. If that's what you wanted to reach, I think that's good, but otherwise, I would change it. Also change her name. The ability of the Virgin says at this moment that she can't die. I think it would be ballanced if you say she only survives the first time she would die.

I definately like the idea of the monster. I only think you should limit his(her? its?) number of overtakes to 2 or 3, because he/she/it is pretty hard to kill unless the player is inactive.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on July 29, 2013, 06:16:10 PM
My problems with the games are as follows:

It misses the point of Cabin in the Woods.
Spoiler
Consider the "angry gods" to be a metaphor for theater audiences. They crave to see the same thing again and again--the typical horror movie. It has to have the traditional roles (jock, fool, virgin), the same plot elements (character deaths, pointless sex) in order to please them. And if it doesn't go that way, they get angry. The men down below try to engineer these scenarios in order to please the angry gods, and they do this around the world. There's even a nod to Japanese horror movies.

These "engineers" are trying to construct a movie scenario that pleases the angry gods "audiences" and they do that by forcing these complex individuals into their respective archetypal roles. Even though the whore is pretty smart, they adjust the temperature and pump the woods full of hormones to get her going. The fool is actually pretty smart as well, and they were going to rely on dumbing him down by drugging his drugs. In order to make the common horror movie scenarios come to life, they can't use real people. They force regular people into the roles we see in movies all the time. No normal person runs upstairs when a monster is chasing them, or has sex in the woods for no reason. But that's what the angry gods want, so that's what the engineers have to give them!

Cabin in the Woods shows what happens if the people aren't being manipulated anymore. If the people act like people--three dimensional, complex characters with the intelligence of any other person on this side of the movie screen--everything falls apart, and the horror movie doesn't play out like anything you've ever seen before.

Which is my problem with your game. The movie makes a point of saying "This fool isn't a fool at all--he figured it all out! He's an interesting dude, a little weird, but not the idiot who gets himself killed first, and definitely more complex than "generic pothead." But your game shoehorns them back into those very archetypes the movie tried to tell you don't even exist./spoiler]
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on July 29, 2013, 08:26:27 PM
Quote from: Bird on July 29, 2013, 06:16:10 PMMy problems with the games are as follows:

It misses the point of Cabin in the Woods.
Spoiler
Consider the "angry gods" to be a metaphor for theater audiences. They crave to see the same thing again and again--the typical horror movie. It has to have the traditional roles (jock, fool, virgin), the same plot elements (character deaths, pointless sex) in order to please them. And if it doesn't go that way, they get angry. The men down below try to engineer these scenarios in order to please the angry gods, and they do this around the world. There's even a nod to Japanese horror movies.

These "engineers" are trying to construct a movie scenario that pleases the angry gods "audiences" and they do that by forcing these complex individuals into their respective archetypal roles. Even though the whore is pretty smart, they adjust the temperature and pump the woods full of hormones to get her going. The fool is actually pretty smart as well, and they were going to rely on dumbing him down by drugging his drugs. In order to make the common horror movie scenarios come to life, they can't use real people. They force regular people into the roles we see in movies all the time. No normal person runs upstairs when a monster is chasing them, or has sex in the woods for no reason. But that's what the angry gods want, so that's what the engineers have to give them!

Cabin in the Woods shows what happens if the people aren't being manipulated anymore. If the people act like people--three dimensional, complex characters with the intelligence of any other person on this side of the movie screen--everything falls apart, and the horror movie doesn't play out like anything you've ever seen before.

Which is my problem with your game. The movie makes a point of saying "This fool isn't a fool at all--he figured it all out! He's an interesting dude, a little weird, but not the idiot who gets himself killed first, and definitely more complex than "generic pothead." But your game shoehorns them back into those very archetypes the movie tried to tell you don't even exist./spoiler]
[close]
Spoiler
Although, in the movie, many of the scenarios failed, requiring America to save the day.

It's entirely possible for this game to take place over one of the failed scenarios, either the humans winning, the wolves winning but killing the wrong role first, or the monster winning when the virgin is dead.

I'll try to edit the game so that Whore dies first though
[close]

Also, all of the wolves can send in a PM to wolf, and the wolf with the power is the wolf who actually makes the killing, is the wolf holding the power is guarded, they can't wolf.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: fank009 on October 07, 2013, 03:22:57 AM
Quick base idea for a game, just to get some thoughts out

TWG ???: Its a team game

3 Wolves

Master wolf: All wolfing decisions are made through him
Wolf Night Vote director: Changes the vote of someone at night to a random target
Wolf vanilla: No additonal powers apart from being a part of the wolf team

9 Humans
Seer
Guardian
Villager
Villager
Villager
Villager
Villager
Villager
Villager


Universal Effect: Roles are decided at flip
So, just a quick explanation, Everyones Initail PM will say wether they are a wolf (with wolf buddehs) or a Villager The powers will be distributed on death. Each night, Each team Will vote on which role is to be revealed If a member from a team dies, it will be the role which was voted for. Village day lynch will be voted for the same night.

Powers:
Each night Each team will also get to vote on who to use the powers for... when the master wolf remains everyone is green and the seer is redundant. The seering is voted by the village (wolves included) Guard is voted by village only, All wolf actions are decided by the wolf team.



(I would host this, but I feel there is still culture clash... and sort of unsure how much of the old culture would effect my decisions :/)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on October 14, 2013, 11:31:21 PM
homestuck twg y/n
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on October 15, 2013, 05:17:27 AM
TF2 TWG y/n
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on October 15, 2013, 05:56:02 AM
I Am the Walrus TWG y/y

Spoiler
TWG: Inside, We Are All Eggmen

Wolves:
1: Mister City Policeman: Master Wolf
2: English Sun: Votes count for two; if the English Rain dies, then it loses this power, and its votes count for one.
3: English Rain: May give a player a tan each night phase, negating their power if they have one. If English Sun dies, then it loses this power, and its votes count for zero.

Humans:
4: Eggman 1: Votes count for zero if Eggman 2 dies.
5: Eggman 2: Votes count for zero if Eggman 1 dies.
6: Eggman 3: Votes count for zero if Walrus dies. As long as he's alive, he acts as an invisible seer; players vote who they want to seer each night phase, unless their votes count for zero.
7: Walrus: May guard either himself or Eggman 3 each night phase (but doesn't know who Eggman 3 is). If Eggman 3 dies, he loses this power.
8: Human: Thinks he's Eggman 1.
9: Human: Thinks he's Eggman 2.
10: Human: Thinks he's Eggman 3.
11: Human: Thinks he's Eggman 1.
12: Human: Thinks he's Eggman 2.
13: Human: Thinks he's Eggman 3.

Third Party:
14: The Van: Likes messing up everybody's plans. Every night phase, he can choose either to have himself seered green, or to paint a chosen player any color aside from red, blue, or green (chosen by the van).
Wins if all players at the time of the end of the game (himself not counted) have been painted.

Wolves know who each other are, but Eggmen don't know who each other are. The Van knows who each other are.
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on October 15, 2013, 09:11:20 AM
Quote from: The Boy Who Cried Wolf on October 15, 2013, 05:17:27 AMTF2 TWG y/n
This could be really cool with the anonymous accounts and a "Your Eternal Reward" spy wolf.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on October 15, 2013, 10:19:32 AM
Quote from: Bird on October 15, 2013, 09:11:20 AMThis could be really cool with the anonymous accounts and a "Your Eternal Reward" spy wolf.

I was thinking of doing a Saxton Hale Themed (If you know what that is) Manhunt type game. Where the wolf would pick to be Saxton, The Vangineer, The Headless Horseless Headman Jr. or the Christian Brutal Sniper each with slightly different abilities and the humans could pick to activate a limited number of their class's which would have different abilities.

For the Spy I had an idea that he could have the Golden Ringer activated and when killed the thread would be told he was dead but he could still PM people. :P

Your idea could work too though!
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on October 15, 2013, 11:14:11 AM
Oooooh, what about a Faction Game where night 1 teams discuss which classes to choose for each of the players within their team that will last till the end of the game...

Or maybe I'll just be frivolous and make a TF2 TWG series.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Greg on October 22, 2013, 08:01:42 PM
TWG: Life After Death

Any powers that post are done through me unless mentioned otherwise. Also, players have no powers while alive(including the guardian) unless mentioned otherwise.

1. Master Wolf: After dying, can reveal a fake public seering of any player at the beginning of any phase through me. The master wolf chooses the colour. Can also post an anonymous post-death totem at any point.
2. Wolf Sniper: After dying, can instantly kill a player at any point.
3. Wolf Painter: After dying, can permanently paint a player any colour at any point.

4. Seer: Can seer while alive.
5. Guardian: Cannot guard while alive. After dying, he gets one chance to identify a live wolf during a night phase. If successful, the wolfing that phase is blocked. (The kill will be labeled as having been blocked, unless there was no kill that night.)
6. Human Totem: Can post an anonymous post-death totem at any point.
7. Phoenix: Can revive themselves for one phase after dying. During this phase they can speak normally, but they do not count for human numbers, they cannot vote, and they cannot send or receive private messages.
8. Human Private Totem: After dying, can send one player an anonymous private message containing whatever information they want. (Done through me, obviously.)
9. Other Seer: After dying, can reveal a public seering at the beginning of any phase.
10. Human Copycat: After dying, can pick any player (living or dead). Receives one use of their power. (If they pick the master wolf, they only get one of his powers (randomly chosen), and the public seering will not be fake).
11. Human Roleblocker: At any point (including after dying), can cancel one player's ability permanently. This fails on the Master Wolf.
12. Human Martyr: While alive, can sacrifice themself at the end of any phase to revive any other player. If that player has used their ability, they will get another use upon death. Fails if used on the Phoenix. If lynched/wolfed in the same phase as they use their ability, the other kill takes precedence.

None of the humans, except the Roleblocker, the Martyr, and the Seer know their identities before dying.

I might replace the Martyr with some human with no abilities, because I think the humans might be overpowered? What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Mashi on October 24, 2013, 06:38:19 PM
Hey, Liggy made a guide and I edited into the second post.

Read it!!!

It'll help those of you who are struggling to make compelling games, and will likely be beneficial to you as reference for creating them as well.
Title: Re: Hosting Guide
Post by: Liggy on October 25, 2013, 02:43:26 PM
Here's the guide in full, because at least one person confused it with the already written guides!

Spoiler
This guide was written by Liggy.

Game Design Guide

--------------------------

PART I: PREFACE
1. Why This Guide?

PART II: INFLUENCE
2. Designing for Influence
3. Freedom of Speech
4. Influence as a Mechanic
5. A Note on Conversions
6. Closing Notes on Influence

PART III: MECHANICS
7. Synergy
8. Minimizing Luck
9. Counter-play
10. Final Thoughts

PART I: PREFACE

1. Why This guide?

Currently on NSM, there are two fantastically written guides from two of the best hosts that I've seen.  They cover some pretty important stuff, too!  Without proper hosting, even the best designed game can fall flat, and a game that isn't balanced is very likely to be a game that isn't fun!  But one thing those two guides fail to mention is what makes a game fun.  Bird's guide touched on proper game design a bit, so it's likely that I may reiterate some ideas that he brought, but for the most part I'm going to be discussing things that were glossed over in previous guides, or expanding on unelaborated ideas brought up earlier.

In short, this guide will tell you how to take that neat idea you have floating around in your head, and tell you how to flesh it out into a TWG people actually would want to play.  It's not really going to mention the finer details of what makes a TWG balanced or what makes a good hosting job, but it's certainly going to help explain what exactly makes one game more interesting than another.

PART II: INFLUENCE

2. Designing for Influence

A good rule of thumb is the more power a player feels that they have in the game, the more enjoyable the game will be for them.  This makes sense; that's why everyone wants to be a special human or a wolf!  In these roles, it's obvious to see how a player's direct action influences the results of the game.  If you a kill a player as a wolf, you've already altered the course of the game, potentially in your favor!  By seering a player, you've narrowed down the list of possible wolves by that much more.  These actions make it clear to the player that they mattered.  If I wasn't in this game, the game would have a different outcome.

Got that?  Good.  Now for the tricky part.

Give every player this feeling of influence.

Historically, the major reason for inactivity is that the humans don't feel like they have a voice.  Inactive games tend to be uninteresting games, which means players are less likely to want to participate, and everything goes downhill from there.  The simple solution for this problem is to design your game such that every human feels like they have a voice.  This doesn't have to be very complicated; here's a fine example of a game that would work, typically referred to as a manhunt:

1. Wolf
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human

On the flip side, here's an example of a game that's not quite so good (and also unbalanced!):

1. Wolf
2. Seer
3. Guardian
4. Mason
5. Mason
6. Human
7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human

As special humans and wolf inherently have a good deal of influence, most of this section will be talking about how to insure that normal humans have influence.  Keep these examples in mind, because for the rest of the section, we'll be analyzing exactly what the first game did right and what the second game did wrong.

3. Freedom of Speech

By far, the easiest way to give humans the influence they need to feel important is to give them a voice.  This is a concept that I suspect most people understand, even if they don't consciously think about it while designing their games.  Unless there's some mechanic otherwise, every player in a TWG has one key way to express their opinion: their voice.  This leads to a good general rule; allow humans to express their voice.

Looking at the first game, it's obvious that everyone human has a vote.  No one human has more authority than another sheerly based of their role, and no one is preventing from posting or voting.  However, in the other game, this isn't entirely the case.  Everyone has the ability to vote and speak, but it's important to realize that, in this game, an alliance of the Seer, Guardian, and two Masons is likely to form.  The people in this alliance, due to their status as confirmed humans and ability to confirm other humans, make it so that they have much more authority than an unconfirmed human.  A normal human's suspicion is much less likely to encourage a seering or lynched than a Mason or seerings suspicion, so the voices of the normal humans are drowned out by the specials.  For a clearer example, consider this game:

1. Wolf
2. Human
3. Human
4. Human
5. Human
6. Mute - Is unable to post, PM, or otherwise contact living players.  All votes must be done via PM.
7. Mute
8. Mute
9. Mute
10. Mute

Ah.  It's obvious here what the problem is; half of the game can't speak!  The game would be pretty dull for the 5 Mutes, even if they have the wolf figured out, they have no real way of expressing it.  They likely wouldn't even pay attention to the game at all!  Now granted, this was an extreme example, but it illustrates the importance of voice well.  If a player doesn't have a strong enough voice or feels like they don't have a strong enough voice, they'll have a lot of trouble remaining interested in the game.

This yields the question: how do you avoid drowning out the votes of the human?  Well, some ways include, but are certainly not limited to:
  • Making special roles unreliable - If there's uncertainity in the results of a special role, then the special roles cease being the ultimate authority in everything.
  • Making special roles able (and likely) to be fake claimed - See above.  If there's uncertainity in the claim, then special roles are no more likely to be trusted than a normal human.
  • Preventing special roles from claiming in the first place - After all, if a special role can't publicly claim, they can't drown out anyone's voice.  Removing the guardian or adding a way for the wolves to bypass the guardian works for this.
  • Removing humans - People are very good at shifting blame and spreading responsibility.  The more players who can step up and voice their opinions, the less likely it is for the average player to feel the need to.  This should be done carefully, as removing too many humans could unbalance the game in favor of the wolves.

4. Influence as a Mechanic

Giving voice is an important tool to give influence, but by no means is it the only way!  Have you considered...

  • A game where everyone has a special power? (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4336.0) (Post game (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4381.0))
  • A game where the humans vote on the power usages? (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=5214.0) (Post game (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=5279.0))
  • A game where players themselves can change the mechanics? (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4956.0) (Post game (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=5001.0))
  • A game where randomly chosen players have the power to kill? (http://llforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2020) (Post game (http://llforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=2020))
  • A game where humans get randomly distributed items? (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4813.0) (Post game (http://www.ninsheetm.us/smf/index.php?topic=4843.0))

Some of these games turned out well, others not so much.  The outcome of these games is less important than the concept driving them: every player has roughly the same influence over how the game occurs.  Giving humans influence through the mechanics could be as simple as giving the humans something else to vote on besides lynches or giving every human a single-use power!  There's a lot of creativity to be had at there, see what works and see what doesn't!

5. A Note on Conversions

Conversions can be fine, but a major problem with them is that, when used incorrectly, they take a way a player's influence on the game.  When you add a conversion mechanic to your game, players suddenly have to realize that the team they may end up playing for at the end may not be the team they are playing for right now.  If they don't have the ability to control their conversion, then the amount of influence a player feels he has is diminished.  They may have the ability to win the game for the team they are in, or help them in their victory, but they wouldn't know if that would ultimately help them win.  Uncontrollable conversions leave a player feeling powerless, which goes against everything you've done as a host to prevent that.

6. Closing Notes on Influence

If there's only one thing you take a way from this guide, it's what's been said about influence.  The stuff that'll be covered in the next section can turn a good game into a great game, but without the proper distribution of influence, a game will probably fall flat.  Influence isn't too hard to use correctly.  It's as simple as asking "Does any one role exert too much authority?"  If the answer is yes, consider redesigning the game so that normal humans have a larger say in the mechanics.

PART III: MECHANICS

7. Synergy

Synergy is what turns an unconnected mess of powers and roles into an enjoyable, coherent game.  In short, it's the "wow-factor" present in most good games.  Synergy helps to make the game more interesting because it adds depth to the mechanics; instead of each role doing their own thing, they can all interact and influence each other.  Bird's guide covers this part pretty well, but it's certainly important to at least bring it up again.

8. Minimizing Luck

Losing because of bad luck is no fun, and no TWG is going to be able to completely eliminate luck.  Sometimes, players take a shot in the dark and lynch a wolf, or correctly suspect a player for all the wrong reasons!  In certain situations, however, you can minimize the effect of luck with the use of clever mechanics.  As an example, take the following game:

1. Master Wolf
2. Wolf
3. Wolf

4. Vigi
5. Seer
6. Guardian

7. Miller - Is told he's human.
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

There's lots of things that can go wrong here!  What if the Master Wolf is someone who usually gets lynched?  What if the Vigi kills the Seer or Guardian randomly Night 1?  What if the Miller is incredibly suspicious for some reason?  What if the Miller is someone who never gets seered?  These are things that there's either no control or little control over, and all of them can affect the balance and enjoyability of the game!  But some of these things can be changed.  If you let the wolves choose the Master Wolf and Miller Night 1, and change the Vigi's role a bit, suddenly it becomes...

1. Wolf - On Night 1, all the wolves collectively choose one wolf player and one human player.  The wolf becomes permanently seered green and the human becomes permanently seered red.
2. Wolf
3. Wolf

4. Poisoner - Poisons a player each night.  Can choose to administer the antidote to that player during the day phase.  If he does not, the poisoned player dies at the end of Day.
5. Seer
6. Guardian

7. Human
8. Human
9. Human
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human

...less luck-based!  If the Master Wolf and Miller end up being given to players they are useless on, that's the fault of the wolves.  If the Vigi/Poisoner targets a vital human at night, that person has the chance to speak up and save themselves before being killed unneccesarily.  Of course, it should be noted that even in this game there's still some luck involved.  The wolves could end up wasting their red power on a special human, or the Guardian could be wolfed Night 1.

However, it's important to realize that balance should not be lost while trying to minimize luck.  In this game, for example, you shouldn't see the Guardian potentially dying Night 1 as something to fix.  You could make the Guardian immune to wolfings, or at least the first night's wolfing, but suddenly you're introducing invincible humans, and that completely changes the game!  Luck is a tricky thing, and it's not all bad.  Powers that have a certain chance of working, such as unreliable Seers or Item Forgers, can work well in certain circumstances.  Changing it so that the Seering works every other Night or that each Item comes with a "cooldown" may seem like it fixes the luck issue, but all it really does is just make the powers more predictable.

9. Counter-Play

Counter-play is an interesting concept, and one that I don't really see discussed in terms of TWG very often.  In essence, counter-play is how powers given to one team affects the other.  In my two examples from this section, the first game doesn't have very interesting counter-play.  The Wolves have very few powers to directly influence the human team, while the only power that really influences the wolves is the Seer.  The Wolves will play more cautiously, because if they stand out they'll be seered.

On the other hand, the second game has much more interesting counter-play.  By allowing the Wolves to choose the Master Wolf and Miller, the humans can start analyzing these choices.  If a player is Seer, discussion would likely occur as to whether that player is likely to be picked by the wolves to have their color changed.  By including this mechanic, there's a much stronger and more existing argument than "Well, he might be the Master Wolf."  The Wolves have some interesting new counter-play opportunities as well!  By switiching the Vigi to the Poisoner, the Wolves have the ability to weasel their way out of a would-be fatal situation.  By including these counter-play options, the game becomes interesting for both sides, as both have more things to take into consideration, and more strategies to try out.

10. Final Thoughts

Really, the same advice from the other two guides applies here as well!  Look at other games!  What games did you or other people enjoy more?  Why?  What parts of those games do you think it would be better without?  Apply these questions to your own games as well!  What parts can you improve?  Where do you think most of the excitement will lie?  Who will feel like they have the most influence?  By asking these questions, you're forcing yourself to consider how all the mechanics of your game work as a whole, and how each of those mechanics work for or against the elements I've discussed.

Finally, if this stuff interests you, I'd like to recommend a show called Extra Credits (http://extra-credits.net/).  It deals primarily with video game design, but I tend to find some of the ideas they bring about are applicable to other games as well, TWG included, and some of the ideas I've brought up in this guide are modified from some of theirs.  It certainly has a large backlog, but if you care about either video games in general or game design in general, it's worth checking out.  They also did a mini-series on a Roman History, which is cool too!  But I digress.
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Waddle Bro on October 25, 2013, 02:45:26 PM
Liggy 4 TWC
Title: Re: Hosting Guide
Post by: Toby on October 25, 2013, 02:52:52 PM
Quote from: Liggy on October 25, 2013, 02:43:26 PMHere's the guide in full, because at least one person confused it with the already written guides!
who
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on October 25, 2013, 02:55:43 PM
Quote from: Waddle Bro on October 25, 2013, 02:45:26 PMLiggy 4 TWC
No no no no Waddle!

...TWC + Liggy
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on October 25, 2013, 04:38:39 PM
posting here to say that liggy's guide is A++ legit yo
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on October 29, 2013, 01:10:14 AM
TWG [Number Holder]: Is this a TWG?

1. Spy
2. Spy
3. Spy

4. Agent
5. Agent
6. Agent
7. Agent
8. Agent
9. Agent
10. Agent

You are part of an underground organisation, trying to take down a nefarious government, which is responsible for the massacre of millions of people, each day, at least three people are nominated for a mission, which is carried out at night, these include assassinating officials, breaking people out of prison, and holding press rallies. However, recent missions have not gone to plan, either due to the target knowing about the assassination attempt, or there being a sudden increase in security the day of the breakout. People have been suspecting that the government have placed spies in the organisation, but others have been dismissing it as nonsense. The Higher Ups of the organisation are making sure though, and have hired agents to investigate.

Your mission is to find and flush out the spies in the organisation.


How this game works:
Every Day (Day 1 comes before Night 1 this game); a player (chosen at random) is picked to lead a mission, which will be carried out the following night phase. When the time comes for the mission to be carried out, every player involved in the mission receives a PM, with two cards, one red, one black, everyone who got the PM must respond to the PM with either the red or black card.

When Night Ends, I post the results of the mission in the thread. If everyone PM'd me a black card, then the mission is considered a success, if someone PM'd me a red card, then the mission is considered sabotaged.


Win Conditions:
Agents: Have 3 Missions considered a success.
Spies: Sabotage 3 missions.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on October 29, 2013, 08:57:21 AM
Where did you find this TWG?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Bird on October 29, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Quote from: Yugi on October 29, 2013, 01:10:14 AMTWGGGGGGG

1. Do the spies know each other?
2. Do players die/get lynched in this game?
3. Can spies lead missions?
4. What's stopping people from recycling the members of a successful mission in later missions?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Liggy on October 29, 2013, 11:20:58 AM
Furthermore, is this really even a TWG?  It seems like an interesting idea for a game, just not really TWG.  There's no lynchings or wolfings, correct?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on October 29, 2013, 02:15:37 PM
Quote from: Bird on October 29, 2013, 10:14:05 AM1. Do the spies know each other?
2. Do players die/get lynched in this game?
3. Can spies lead missions?
4. What's stopping people from recycling the members of a successful mission in later missions?
Yes
No
Yes
Spies may have picked black in earlier missions.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 11, 2014, 03:20:16 PM
http://www.llforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3504&start=300#p249832

I'M TOO LASY TO POST THE GAME OVER HERE SO WHATever
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on March 24, 2014, 03:18:33 PM
TWG Number:
Classic Mafia

1. Mafia
2. Mafia
3. Villager
4. Villager
5. Villager
6. Villager
7. Villager
8. Villager
9. Villager
10. Framed Villager
11. Doctor
12. Detective

For newer players who may want to learn the basic concepts of TWG without confusing extra stuff, with veteran players who would like to give tips :P
Mafia=wolves
Villager=humans
Framed Villager=miller
Doctor=Guardian
Detective=seer
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on May 06, 2014, 05:58:15 PM
TWG: Willy Wonka's Factory of Horrors:

Charlie stood in the amazing glass elevator, watching the scenery around him. He could see his house, his school, and the entire town all around him! Just then, they were passing over a lake.

Mr. Wonka spoke: "Charlie, don't forget what happened to the man who suddenly got everything he always wanted."

Charlie responded: "What happened?"

A grin came across Mr. Wonka's face. "He died." His hand reached out towards Charlie, as his grin got even wider, and wider...

"Grandpa!" Charlie yelled. He leaped toward his grandfather, Joe; he tackled him, and the two smashed the glass, falling down and down to the lake. Charlie tried to grab his hand, but he couldn't, and the two flew apart. Then Charlie splashed into the lake, quickly trying to swim to shore. He saw his grandfather near the shore, in shallow water. He wasn't moving.

"Grandpa!"

"Charlie... Charlie..." he gasped, "you must... escape... he will come looking... for you!" Then he died.

Wonka's Minions; Wolves:
1. Willy Wonka: Charismatic wolf. In this game, players may not vote for themselves. May choose to sacrifice his charismatic ability (and instead, be seered green) for a phase.
2. Oompa Loompa Captain: May seer one person each night.
3. Corpse of Augustus Gloop: May visit a person each night and attempt to kill them, negating their power usage for the phase (cannot be used on Charlie; if used on the miller, they are seered green for the night). If used on a normal human, their vote for the Day Phase counts as 0. If used on the Charismatic, their vote counts as 1.

Townspeople; Humans:
4. Charlie Bucket: At the beginning of the game, his identity is revealed to the public; however, he may not be killed at all until his family has died. Knows who his family is. Because his capture is valuable to Wonka, he counts for victory conditions as two people.
5. Charlie's Family: Has a one-use vigi. If they are targeted by the Corpse of Augustus Gloop, the vigi will not go through (but they will still be able to use it later).
6. Interpol Agent: May seer one person each night.
7. Townsperson: Normal Human
8. Townsperson: Normal Human
9. Townsperson: Normal Human
10. Townsperson: Normal Human
11. Candyman: Charismatic. Doesn't know his identity.
12. Mr. Wilkinson: An Interpol spy who infiltrated Wonka's factory; because he was pretending to be loyal to him, not everybody trusts him.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on May 07, 2014, 05:29:38 AM
Great I knew there was a reason to be scared of Willy Wonka
thanks BDS
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on December 24, 2014, 08:31:27 PM
TWG: Knowledge is Power
A Super TWG designed Maestro

As your body grows bigger,
your mind must flower;
it's great to learn!
Cause Knowledge is Power! (//http://)

This is a 15 Player Super TWG designed by me, Maestro, and sponsored by Learners Anonymous. (Thanks Ted!)

Wolves:

Tyrannosaurus Debt (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiXMIgBt2o) - Wolf - Debt collector - Each day phase he remains alive, he gains 0.5 voting power. (D1=1x, D2=1.5x, etc.)
Naughty Number Nine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt0Frq6bhNQ) - Master Wolf - 999 - If he is still alive when the player count reaches nine or less, Naughty Number Nine can revive a dead player if one exists, redeemable anytime after player count reaches nine or less.
Gravity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFtk6Si0Fk) - Wolf - Apple - Can drop an apple on one player each night. If Gravity is killed, all the apple holders are stripped of their powers and voting abilities. The players will be told they've been hit by an apple.

Humans:

Mother Necessity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OLWJ1TMuNE) - Seer/Guardian/Role Blocker - Necessity - Each night you will choose two targets, and both targets will receive either a guarding, a power block (both defensive and prohibitive), or a seering. If no action was performed, it will result in a seering on them. If they use a power, it will be nulled. It they are the victim of a power or a kill, it will be blocked.
Zero (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxYsgRsNg2s) - Human - My Hero - You can save one player from a lynching during the course of the game. The person with the next amount of votes will instead be lynched, etc.
Tax Man Max (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e83ycfrAUGc) - Human - Tax Day - He can choose one day phase in which each remaining human's votes count as 1.5x. He can either select the current day phase or choose a day phase in advance, but once he selects it is final. The power will still go into effect even if Tax Man Max isn't alive on the chosen day.
Rufus Xavier Sasparilla (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVSr4bsVIpM) - Traitor - Pronoun - The player can activate the power anytime and it will go into effect the following phase. During the affected phase, all players will be instructed to not use any proper nouns for any reason and the chat room will be closed for the duration (a practicality since I can't monitor you effectively). The only time you can use a proper noun is when placing a vote/wolfing/activating powers, and you can only do so once during the affected phase.
Lolly, of Father, Son, and Lolly (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk_NIuvqOHQ) - Human - Adverb - Completely silence one player for a full day-night cycle. (Nx-Dx) They will have to totally cease any forms of posting, private communication, and will be banned from the chat during the duration. Lolly will need to choose a point in the future, at which time the affected player will be told presently of his condition. Indubitably.
The Conductor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODGA7ssL-6g) - Human - Conjunction Junction - He cannot be affected by a power at anytime in the game. If he's targeted three times or more then he can choose to use one of the powers used against him, but he will die at the end of the phase.
Three (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU4pyiB-kq0) - Human - Magic - Can disappear for one phase, chosen in advance, and will be rendered immune to wolfings, lynchings, and targetings, but you can still freely play, chat and vote.
[ur=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyeJ55o3El0l]Bill [/url]- Human - Law - Can put into permanent effect one of the following: Cardflips at the end of each day phase; having the host post the official vote tally at the end of each phase as part of the update (i.e. the one I use when counting votes, with all the effected vote tallies from powers); enact Daylight Savings Time, extending two successive day phases by 24 hrs; or Veto one player's power after it is used (within a 12 hour window after activation).

Lucky Seven Sampson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2q1Rz_76A) - Miller - Lucky 7 - Immune to KitBs, cannot be lynched if the vote count against him is 7 exactly. If he is still alive when the player count reaches seven then the game ends and he wins, unless Little Twelvetoes is still alive as well. (Must be exactly seven, if the number seven is skipped then play continues as normal). He is still counted as human throughout the game and for win conditions, meaning he also wins/loses with the human team.

The Comet Team:
The Earth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOxO10XT8c0) - Rogue - Energy - For each human (non wolf or rogue) that is alive, he has X-extra hit points, meaning it takes X+1 to successfuly kill him. (Game start = 10 attacks to kill). Each phase the number is reset to match the current standings.
Interplanet Janet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmYVWJ82dQQ) - Rogue - Comet - For each wolf that is alive, she has X-extra hit points, meaning it takes X+1 to successfuly kill her. (Game start = 4 attacks to kill). Each phase the number is reset to match the current standings.
Little Twelvetoes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqGyUvZP0Zg) - Rogue - Home - Immune to KitBs, cannot be lynched if the vote count against him is a multiple of 12.

VERB! Each night one of the following is given to a random player for them to use if they wish. 25% chance of appearing:
N1 - Busy Prepositions - Always on the march, protects you from a power during night one, automatic.
N2 - Electricity - Powerful enough to brighten the dark when you need to see; it will display whoever uses a power or sends in a wolfing during the night at the time of activation (Within 1 hour before use and 30 min after use). The results will be displayed publicly at the end of the phase.
N3 - Suffrage - You can choose another player or yourself to have their votes worth double the next day phase (D3, 2x multiplier).
N4 - Elementary - It's going to rain children, a body double. The player who gets it will essentially have a decoy that will last during night 4.
N5 - Barter - You can trade powers with another player permanently. If they used their power or if it is pending activation it will not be restored, and vice versa if you already used your own power.
N6- Fireworks - red white and blue, a psychic power the reveals how many people on each team is left. The player using it can also choose a team to reveal a role still alive on a team of their choice, but not told the player's identity.

Normal win conditions (Last team standing) with the exception of Lucky Seven Sampson
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on December 24, 2014, 08:32:38 PM
I started designing that some time ago so I thought I've spruce it up a bit and see if someone wants to host it. May need to be reworked to cater to a smaller player size, but I'm willing to adjust it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Maelstrom on December 24, 2014, 08:55:27 PM
Quite frankly, that looks fun. And very, very hard to balance.
I don't believe you listed win conditions for anyone except LSS
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on December 24, 2014, 08:57:15 PM
Overlooked that. Pretty much normal win conditions/last team standing with the exception for LSS.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on December 25, 2014, 05:04:14 PM
yeah in order to balance that you'd have to make an AI script for it and run it through a few thousand playthroughs to see the outcome
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on December 25, 2014, 08:59:02 PM
Marioparty: 007

Team Bowser(Wolves)
Bowser(Captain)-Whenever Bowser dies each other team loses a star and team bowser gets a star.
Bowser Jr.-Wolf
Koopa-Wolf

Team Mario(Humans1)
Mario(Captain)
Peach
Yoshi

Team Luigi(Humans2)
Luigi(Captain)
Daisy
E. Gadd

Team Toad(Specials)-Team Toad's votes count for zero.
Toad(Captain)-Guardian
Toadette-Vigilante
Toadsworth-Seer

Wolves win under normal conditions(equal or greater numbers to that of humans)
Unique to this game, however, is the win condition of the other teams.
You must have at least 2 more team members than any other team.  This is considered a human victory but the other teams don't win.

Game mechanics:
Vocabulary
STAR: Having a star will give you a handicap that helps you win (in other words, not lose) the next minigame.
EXILE: When a team loses a minigame, a random non-captain player is exiled.  This player essentially no longer exists and cannot be revived, spoken of, or thought of.  They cannot post or PM anybody anywhere, regardless of content (including in threads outside TWG).
Each night after the first at exactly the same time every night, each team will participate in a minigame such as "first team to post THIS in the 'Post Your Thoughts of the Moment Thread 2' wins the minigame!" or "Here are 4 cards.  One of them has a STAR, another has an EXILE.  Have your captain PM me with your card choice before such time to try to win!".

"Because no matter how darn lucky we get, what matters is winning the minigames.  And you, you always win.  THAT is why we won't play with you."
-My Bro
Troubleshooting-
I realize that during the night phase there may be some trouble for timing, especially when it comes down to the captains.  If this is ever the case the captains may PM the host delegating their power (TEMPORARILY) to another player (ON THEIR TEAM).  If the entire team will have trouble being on at the specified time I will extend the phase and postpone the minigame.
The wolf team can continue to wolf bowser over and over to steal stars, yes, but this is not particularly productive.  Maybe doing it once.
I'm thinking that Team Toad will overshadow all the other teams because of their synergy(guardian guards seer, seer seers wolf, vigi kills wolf), but due to how this game is set up, killing the wolves shouldn't really make a difference for team toad.
Questions?  Comments?  Concerns?  Good Jokes?
Come on don't tell me I'm the only one who wants to see this game happen.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on December 25, 2014, 09:07:11 PM
Right off the bat you have an issue with the exile mechanic. You can't force someone to not be part of the larger NSM community, especially if they are involved with other things here (working on arrangements/updates, playing in other games, general doing of things). It's rather draconian and frankly seemingly unenforceable.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on December 25, 2014, 09:42:40 PM
oh i was joking about that bit lol
they just can't be revived
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on December 29, 2014, 03:16:57 AM
I'll host Maestro's game, if he doesn't mind.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on December 29, 2014, 08:29:11 AM
Go for it, but it may need some tweaking to compensate for a smaller group if needed. It also probably needs TWC approval, but my games are always super duper.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on December 29, 2014, 12:43:48 PM
Quote from: MaestroUGC on December 29, 2014, 08:29:11 AMIt also probably needs TWC approval, but they don't bother because they know my game will be unballanced anyway.

sorry, couldn't resist
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on December 29, 2014, 12:51:26 PM
Speaking of unbalanced, I'm designing a new game without wolves and a spin on special powers and abilities.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on January 26, 2015, 03:16:55 PM
TWG LXXV: A Role Reunion Reprise

Wolves - Each night phase, only one wolfing is accepted, which is the first one sent to me.
1. The Doctor - Master Wolf Shaman
Can seer one player during the night phase. Knows the identity of Onox, but doesn't know the identity of the Protective Mine and the Traitor. (TWG XXVI: Doctor Who)
2. Onox - Brutal Wolf
Can target one player while alive (target can be changed as many times as the player wishes). When lynched, the targeted player will die as well. Knows the identity of The Doctor, but doesn't know the identity of the Protective Mine and the Traitor. (TWG XIV: Oracle of Secrets (Winterkid's Game))

3. Protective Mine - Wolf Guardian
Can guard one player each night phase excluding self. Knows the identity of the Traitor and the Minion, but doesn't know the identity of The Doctor and Onox. (TWG XXV: Minesweeper)
4. Traitor
Counts towards the human population but wins with the wolves. Cannot wolf. Knows the identity of the Protective Mine, but doesn't know the identity of The Doctor and Onox. (TWG LXXII: Agents of Shield (Season 1))

Humans
5. Werewolf Sonic
During the day he will be seered BLUE, but will seer be RED at night due to his werewolf form (remains human throughout). His incredible endurance allows him to take any combination of 2 vigi's/wolfings before going down. When wolfed/vigi'd the first time, it will be exclaimed that "Sonic has been wolfed/vigi'd! (1)." (even if the player in question doesn't have the role Werewolf Sonic). On the second kill, the player's name will be used normally, stating "Player X has been wolfed/vigid" (TWG XXXIII: Beat Those Eggs Jimmy!)
6. Invisible Seer
Is told he is a normal Human. Each night EVERY player will vote for someone to be seer'd, whoever has the most votes will be seer'd that night. This keeps on going until this player is killed. (TWG XLVI: Have it Your Way)
7. Angel - Haunting Reviver
Is told he is a normal Human, is told his actual role after death. Can revive one lynched player after death. (TWG LXIII: Second Chances)
8. Haunting Seer
Is told he is a normal Human, is told his actual role after death. After dying, can reveal a public seering at the end of any phase. (TWG LXV: Haunting Spirits)
9. Diglett - Obnoxious Human
Is told he is a normal Human. Vote counts for 0.1 (TWG XXXIX: Perfect Apples)
10. Pokemon - Oracle
Is told he is a normal Human. Can target one player while alive (target can be changed as many times as the player wishes). When lynched the color of the targeted player is revealed to the thread.(TWG XLI: Gotta Lynch 'em All!)
11. Human (TWG I: The Incident in the Mushroom Kingdom (and many games thereafter))

Fools
12. Vermillionvermin - Master Fool
Wins when he is dead at the end of the game. When killed, the italic part of every power is randomised among remaining living Players (no players can get multiple powers this way). (TWG LXVII: The Werewolf Game? More Like The Werewolf DEAD!!!)
13. Fool
Wins when he is dead at the end of the game. (TWG LX: 2fool4skool)
14. Minion - Unnaware fool
Is told he is a normal Human, is told his actual role when both Vermillionvermin and the Fool are dead (even if the minion is dead at that time). Wins when he is dead at the end of the game. Although it's role colour says otherwise, too much contact with the Hypnotiser caused him to be actually seerd orange. (TWG XIX: Mind Games)



Players do not know other players' identities unless stated otherwise.

When all three fools are dead, the game ends and the fools win.
Wolves win when at the end of the day phase the wolves outnumber, or are equal in number to the number of humans.
Humans win when all three wolves are dead.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Yugi on January 26, 2015, 03:20:02 PM
no protected wolf 0/10
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on January 27, 2015, 02:24:15 PM
No NocturneOfShadow
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mikey on February 27, 2015, 08:23:11 PM
I'm working on a TWG and I might need help balancing it.  Anyone interested who's willing to forfeit playing?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: MaestroUGC on February 27, 2015, 09:16:33 PM
I can help you balance it.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on May 11, 2015, 09:56:53 PM
Well, I got bored and made up another game (yay number two). I know there's a game going on currently but I just wanted to post it while it was on my mind.

TWG: Convergence Zone

All lynch votes are messaged privately to the game host.

Colored Cardflips are in effect.


Wolves:
1. Tridus: Has a one-use vigilante upon death.
2. Blind: Can seduce one character each night phase to force them to vote during the following day phase for whatever player Blind chooses. Cannot use her power if Deaf uses hers.
3. Deaf: Wolf Roleblocker. Can prevent the Seer from using their power during any Night phase. Cannot use her power if Blind uses hers.
4. Cil: Starts on the side of the wolves and has the wolf win conditions, but is told he is a normal human. Wolves are not told Cil's identity. If Cil is lynched, he flies into a rage and kills one other player selected at random. In the thread it is publicly announced that "Cil flew into a rage and killed <role>!" Cil's player is messaged "You are Cil. You have killed <role>." If Cil publicly claims his role at any time from this point forward, he switches to the human side and gains the human win conditions.

Humans:
5. Agrith: Is told he is a normal human. If he dies, Tridus dies without using his vigilante UNLESS Agrith is killed by Cil's rage.
6. Vintash: Is told she is a normal human.
7. Othek: Is told he is a normal human.
8. Rofut: Is told she is a normal human.
9. Tirall: Is told the identities of Cil, Jogul, Tridus, and Blind/Deaf, but not which is which.
10. Sekka: Immortal Seer. If Sekka is wolfed, his spirit will leave his body and inhabit a random, normal human who will become the new seer. The new seer will remain green. This power transfer only occurs once.
11. Jogul: The Fool. If the Fool dies, the game is over and the Fool wins UNLESS Jogul is killed by Cil's rage. Jogul is immune to wolfing on Night 1. If Jogul is wolfed on Night 1, it will be announced that "Jogul avoided an early demise!" and he will survive. Is told he is the Fool.

Elements:
Each human (including Cil) possesses an element. If a player votes to lynch a player who is weak against their element, their vote will count for double.
- Agrith: Fire. Double against Cil and Jogul.
- Vintash: Wind. Double against Othek and Agrith.
- Othek: Water. Double against Agrith and Tirall.
- Tirall: Earth. Double against Vintash and Sekka.
- Sekka: Lightning. Double against Othek and Jogul.
- Jogul: Jungle. Double against Tirall and Rofut.
- Rofut: Stone. Double against Cil and Sekka.
- Cil: Ice. Double against Vintash and Rofut.

Wolves who aren't Cil know each other.
Wolves win if the number of wolves is equal to or greater than the number of remaining humans. If this condition is met while Cil is aware of his role and is still a wolf, Cil may choose to remain a wolf and win automatically OR join the humans to try and lynch the wolves.
Humans win if all the wolves are lynched/killed.
Jogul wins if he is killed by something other than Cil's rage.

Not nearly as complex as the first game I posted (imho, though I still want to go back to that one and tweak it). Anything I should be made aware of?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Dudeman on July 29, 2015, 10:50:49 PM
Balancing question from a rookie TWG'er (who is tweaking a previous game idea): how does one effectively discredit seer counterclaims? Is there a way? Or do the players (and, by extension, the guardian) have to rely on pure intuition?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: FireArrow on July 29, 2015, 11:40:47 PM
In your game no one would even think about counterclaiming seer.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on August 07, 2023, 12:55:13 PM
This is based off an old (disasterous) TWG I hosted over on LLF way back in the day. I don't imagine we'll be able to host it here any time soon, but it's always been an aspiration of mine to host a balanced version of this game!!!

TWG: The Legend of the Calamities — Caldo de Siete Mares Redux
(Based on TWG 83: Caldo de Siete Mares)

All good legends must have an end, no? And I believe last time, you... fell asleep before I had finished my tale. Perhaps this time, you'll listen to some of the finer details? Good. Now, let me fetch my old book and begin once again...

In the ancient past, when the world was all Ocean, there was a Man. This Man lived on a small island in the Ocean, eating coconuts and various fruits which fell from the trees on the island. Sometimes, the Man went fishing, but he was never satisfied: the small animals in the Ocean were too small to enjoy, and the large animals in the Ocean were too large to hunt. One day, the Man, dissatisfied with his condition, climbed atop the tallest tree on the island and reached towards the heavens. He reached further, and further, until he finally grabbed a piece of star. The Man threw this piece of star into the oceans, and from it sprung various sea creatures. The Man was happy, but he did not know that he had awoken the Calamities...

Wolves:
1: The Fisherman: Can wolf one person every night. Can survive two night kills (which includes both brutals and vigis). Every time a Special dies, he gains a power corresponding to its power. Is informed when a special dies.

The Calamities:
2: Havoc: Can vigi one person each night.
3: Misery: Each night, can attempt to negate one special's power for one night/day. If their power is negated when they die, the Fisherman does not get their power.
-: Chaos: The seed of destruction planted by the other two Calamities. Before the game begins, Chaos will be given its role PM and will be given the option to absorb the powers of either the Halibut, the Tuna, or the Octopus. If Havoc or Misery dies, may sacrifice its chosen power to instead inherit their power. It may only do this once per game.

Specials:
4: The Shrimp: Every night, as long as it is alive, players may submit a PM telling who they want to be seered. The person voted by the majority will have their color publicly revealed. If killed, the Fisherman gains control of what color the person is seered as.
5: The Abalone: Has two revives for the entire game. If he revives a person that can survive multiple night kills, they only come back with one health. Is told who is unrevivable. If killed, the Fisherman gets a single-use revive.
6: The Halibut: If killed, he can brutal any person. However, the Fisherman also gets a Brutal power. Is told they're a Trilobite.
7: The Mussel: May guard a person every night. If killed, the Fisherman can change one person's color for the rest of the game.
8: The Crab: Can vigi one person each night. If killed, the Fisherman gets a single-use vigi.
9: The Tuna: Is Charismatic. If killed, the Fisherman gets a Charismatic power. Is told they're a Trilobite.
10: The Octopus: If a special is killed Night 1, The Octopus takes on that special's role and negates the power gain of the wolf. The dead special becomes unrevivable. Cannot be negated by Misery Night 1. Is told they're a Trilobite until their power activates.

Humans:
11: Rainbow Fish: Always seers as green under any circumstance. Is told they're a Trilobite.
12: Trilobite
13: Trilobite
14: Trilobite
15: Trilobite
16: Strong Trilobite: Can survive two night kills (which includes brutals, vigis, and wolfings). Is told they're a Trilobite.
17: Megalodon: Can survive two night kills (which includes brutals, vigis, and wolfings). Is told they're a Trilobite.

Third Party:
18: The Eel: Always mischievous, every night, the Eel may select a player. The chosen player's seering results will come out as "inconclusive" for that night. Vote counts as zero. Is not affected by any of the specials' powers, but will be affected by the Fisherman's or Calamities' powers. Wins when it has successfully obscured three players (any player will count except for the Rainbow Fish or if roleblocked).


The Wolves and Calamities know each other's identities.

It is announced whenever somebody is attacked, even if they were not killed.


Wolves: Win when all six Specials are dead. Can win if dead, but only if the Calamities win. Cannot win when humans win. Does not override the Calamities' victory.
Calamities: Win when number of Humans and Specials = number of Calamities. Does not override the wolf victory.
Humans: Win when the Calamities and The Fisherman are dead.
Third Party: Wins when it has successfully obscured three players. Can win alongside any faction.

The game ends if the Humans or Calamities have reached their victory condition.

Additional Clarifications
The Mussel cannot guard itself.

If two or more specials are killed Night 1, the one which the Octopus takes over for is randomized.

Misery must target a player; if that person is not a special or the Eel, nothing happens.

If all of the Calamities are dead, then the wolf victory condition will end the game.

Self-votes are not counted. The Charismatic power cannot be turned off.

Guarding does not prevent roleblocking. If the ballot box seering is roleblocked, it will be stated that results were inconclusive. If the revive is blocked on the night it would have been used, the revive will be used up.

If the charismatic is roleblocked, the player will only have one vote. If the charismatic votes for the Eel, the vote will only count as one.
[close]
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on October 25, 2023, 05:59:34 PM
TWG: It Comes in Phases

During this game, night phases and day phases are combined into one 72 hour-long phase, meaning that players vote and submit night actions all in the same phase. The Wolf and Half-Wolf know each other's identity.

Wolves:
1. Wolf: Every phase, the Wolf submits the name of a player to be wolfed. The original wolf also has access to a seering power.

Humans:
2. Half-Wolf: Wins with the wolves, but counts as a Human. If the Wolf dies Phase 1, the Half-Wolf becomes a Wolf (without a seering).
3. Seer: Every phase, they may select a player to be seered; they are then notified of that player's color.
4. Human
5. Human
6. Human
7. Human

Wolves win when there is only one human player left, or when both the Wolf and Half-Wolf are alive and only one other Human remains. Humans win when the Wolf has been eliminated.

Host Clarifications:
(any mechanics clarifications will be added here if necessary. Feel free to ask questions!)
- No lynch is not an option. Instas are off due to the nature of the game.
- If a player with an action does not submit their action, no action goes through.
- Color cardflips are on.
- It will be specified whether a player is lynched or wolfed (or both if such a thing occurs).
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on October 31, 2023, 05:58:56 AM
I get the feeling this game will need a lot of tweaking before we get the balance right. If people don't like the idea of using the TWG alt accounts, the game can function without them.

Some ideas for potential balance changes:
- Potentially turn the Millwright into a normal green human, and get rid of orange as a painting option. On the flip side, potentially have one of the wolves be orange by default?
- Making the regular Wolf be the only wolf who can control the wolfing (and rename them to the "Head Wolf" or something like that). If there are two people with the wolfing Wolf role they each can submit a wolfing pick if they so choose, but only one person will be wolfed. Conversely, if there is no living wolfing Wolf, then there is no wolfing.
- Potentially make one of the human roles a Charismatic Human (vote counts as two).

TWG: Those Who Will be Reborn

At the beginning of the game, everyone is told their role, and which alt account is assigned to them. However, they do not use the alt account at the beginning of the game. During any phase, a player can choose to "kill" themselves off and be "reborn" as their alt account, which will take effect at the end of the current phase. Each alt account is assigned a role from the same role list, except completely independently of the main player list.

Wolves:
1. Painter Wolf: Every night, they can pick one player and change their color to either red, green, blue, or orange for that night phase and the next day phase.
2. Wolf

Humans:
3. True Seer: Every night, they may select a player to be seered; they are then notified of that player's original color regardless of which color they have been painted. Are told they are a regular seer.
4. Seer: Every night, they may select a player to be seered; they are then notified of that player's current color.
5. Mad Painter: Every night while they are alive, a random player is painted either red, green, blue, or orange for that night phase and the next day phase.
6. Human
7. Millwright: Is told they're a normal Human.
8. Miller: Is told they're a normal Human.

Wolves win when there are no humans currently living. Humans win when all wolves have been eliminated and there are no more players alive who can potentially become a wolf.

Host Clarifications:
(any mechanics clarifications will be added here if necessary. Feel free to ask questions!)
- No lynch is an option.
- Color cardflips are on, and reveal the player's apparent color (taking into account paintings).
- The Painter Wolf's painting will supersede the Mad Painter's painting if they happen to target the same player.
- If a player with a night action does not submit their action, no action goes through.
- It is publicly announced when a player is "reborn."
- All players who are currently Wolves are aware of the other current Wolves' identities. They are not told which alt accounts are wolves until they have been reborn.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 12, 2024, 09:43:58 AM
not sure if anyone still looks at this, but potential idea for a new game that might be interesting. it's just a pretty basic sketch of the idea and hasn't been balanced, but curious to hear people's thoughts:

(currently wip, being edited)

---

TWG: Operation Banana

Wolves:
1. Donkey Kong
2. Diddy Kong

Humans:
3. King K. Rool: At the start of each day, gets notified how many barrels each player currently possesses. Cannot deliver barrels to other players. If he possesses at least one barrel, he will survive being raided (but all his barrels will be taken).
4. Kremling
5. Kremling
6. Kremling
7. Kremling
8. Kremling

Game is night start. All humans start with 1 barrel at the beginning of the game; wolves start with none. Each night, for each barrel they have, every player (except King K. Rool) can choose to (a) hold onto it or (b) deliver it to any other player.

Each night, instead of normal wolfkills, the wolf team can perform both of the following actions:
- Raid: raid someone's house. If the target held onto any barrels that night, that wolf seizes them. Additionally, if the target did not deliver barrels to any other player, they are nightkilled. (Any barrels delivered to a nightkilled target are lost for good.) Players will not be told whether their house was raided.
- Intercept: stake out the transport route between any two (human) players. If any barrels are delivered between these two players that night, that wolf obtains them instead. (The sender won't know that it was intercepted; the receiver won't know that they were supposed to receive those barrels.)

Wolves can also exchange barrels between them during night phases. The transfer will go through at the end of the phase.

At the start of each day, every player is informed how many barrels they have. The wolf team will be informed how many barrels each wolf obtained through raiding or interception that night.

One lynch per day (insta's on, no cardflips, no-lynch allowed). Any barrels held by a lynch victim will be lost for good.

Humans win when all wolves are dead. Wolves win at parity or if no living humans possess any barrels.

Full OC; wolves know each other's identity.

---

curious to hear people's thoughts! I'm not sure about the balance (it seems like hunting down the last package might be a coinflip for the wolves), but I'm sure there's room to give special powers to either side to even it out.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Nakah on March 12, 2024, 10:30:40 AM
Quote from: mastersuperfan on March 12, 2024, 09:43:58 AMcurious to hear people's thoughts! I'm not sure about the balance (it seems like hunting down the last package might be a coinflip for the wolves), but I'm sure there's room to give special powers to either side to even it out.


    The idea of packages meaning something is kind of cool in the background, but the titles for the roles seem a bit hardcore/fringe inappropriate for an online bbc forum board for nintendo sheet music from a 'Moderative' point of view. Perhaps if the concept were the same, yet the theme were based something more soft like bandits vs. detectives....with like shady packages of stolen golden bananas from DKC or something lol.

   Mean that in a positive way, like the elementals of the game are there, but there's also some question's I'd have...(like why can the receiver not hear that their package was intercepted?) Or why can there not be a repercussion for the deliverer that tried to send a package if it gets intercepted...say like a red flag or something noted on them during day phase...that way people only try to send packages tactically out of fear of interception, and only the caught get exposed. Idk other ideas of that nature to expand the game idea.


   Does this also mean that each would can choose to do both actions? Thus 4 possible actions happening by the wolf team per night phase?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 12, 2024, 10:45:25 AM
Quote from: Nakah on March 12, 2024, 10:30:40 AMThe idea of packages meaning something is kind of cool in the background, but the titles for the roles seem a bit hardcore/fringe inappropriate for an online bbc forum board for nintendo sheet music from a 'Moderative' point of view. Perhaps if the concept were the same, yet the theme were based something more soft like bandits vs. detectives....with like shady packages of stolen golden bananas from DKC or something lol.
that's a fair point :p I updated it. I guess I didn't think it was out of the ordinary given that this style of game is based on the mafia in the first place, but maybe that's why it's TWG here

I'll see if I can think of something more thematic later

Quote from: Nakah on March 12, 2024, 10:30:40 AMMean that in a positive way, like the elementals of the game are there, but there's also some question's I'd have...(like why can the receiver not hear that their package was intercepted?) Or why can there not be a repercussion for the deliverer that tried to send a package if it gets intercepted...say like a red flag or something noted on them during day phase...that way people only try to send packages tactically out of fear of interception, and only the caught get exposed. Idk other ideas of that nature to expand the game idea.
hmm I guess I thought of the players as the ones not actually making the deliveries, like they send it through the mail or a mule or something lol.

I definitely had it in my mind that I wanted to incentivize town to send packages more than sitting on them, hence why sending is "safer" than keeping them. that way, it would mostly be a game of strategy for the mafia to deduce who likely has packages and who's likely to send to whom. but I also was thinking if there was a way to incentivize the wolves to raid more, like if there was a human role with special powers but who also always got nightkilled upon a raid regardless of whether they held onto packages or not.

Quote from: Nakah on March 12, 2024, 10:30:40 AMDoes this also mean that each would can choose to do both actions? Thus 4 possible actions happening by the wolf team per night phase?
each wolf would pick one of the two.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: BlackDragonSlayer on March 14, 2024, 05:46:16 PM
Quote from: mastersuperfan on March 12, 2024, 09:43:58 AMTWG: Operation Banana
Just saw this. It seems like a super interesting idea; but as of right now, it seems much easier for the wolves to win, since they can either win by parity or barrel shenanigans. For balance with 8 players, I think it would be a good idea to limit the wolf team to a max of 2 successful kills. Otherwise, in theory, wolves could win by end of Night 2 without humans being able to do much about it.

It might also be a good idea to make King K. Rool immune to the first incident of either Raid OR Intercept (cause otherwise he can be nightkilled N1 and the humans have a lot less info to work with). Alternatively to this idea, just add some sort of Kremling who can keep players safe from wolf shenanigans, which gives the human team more control.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: mastersuperfan on March 14, 2024, 06:14:21 PM
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 14, 2024, 05:46:16 PMJust saw this. It seems like a super interesting idea; but as of right now, it seems much easier for the wolves to win, since they can either win by parity or barrel shenanigans. For balance with 8 players, I think it would be a good idea to limit the wolf team to a max of 2 successful kills. Otherwise, in theory, wolves could win by end of Night 2 without humans being able to do much about it.

It might also be a good idea to make King K. Rool immune to the first incident of either Raid OR Intercept (cause otherwise he can be nightkilled N1 and the humans have a lot less info to work with). Alternatively to this idea, just add some sort of Kremling who can keep players safe from wolf shenanigans, which gives the human team more control.

thanks for the feedback! from a first passover I didn't think it was too wolf-sided since there's also a good chance the wolves whiff the first night or two (I'd hope the humans would be sufficiently unpredictable so as not to lose n2!) but that's a good point. I suppose it might be a pretty high variance game in general; I plan to run some simulations over the weekend to see how likely it is for either team to win, if players just pick actions at random

I like the idea of giving K Rool an extra hit; maybe one idea would be that K Rool takes a total of two raids to kill, so he won't die upon the first raid, but if his identity gets revealed, wolves can kill him in one night by raiding him together.

a medic could be interesting but I wouldn't want them to be able to protect K Rool, I don't like the idea of K Rool revealing and then getting shielded every night as wolves hunt down the medic

some other ideas I was toying with include:
- the wolves being able to do one raid + one interception each night, instead of picking individually. (I'm definitely wondering quite a bit how to balance the wolf powers w.r.t. the number of wolves left, since I want them not to be too crippled if one gets lynched d1 but also not too overpowered if 2-3 humans are dead by d1 or n2 ish)
- having a human who can see which players visited a given player each night
- KKR being unnightkillable if Donkey Kong is dead (but probably it's more important to protect KKR earlygame rather than lategame)
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 16, 2024, 02:38:15 AM
Things have gotten a bit confusing now that MSF's game no longer matches his responses to other suggestions but I try my best to offer feedback anyways.

Unless the game is specifically balanced for it (like the Get into te Bag game) I prefer wolves not losing half their powers when one of them dies, so I'd prefer that the wolves get two night actions anyway.

Be aware that any kind of protection you give to KKR increases the chance of him revealing himself and becomming an alliance leader.

Intercept is significantly more likely to whiff than raid, as it requires two correct guesses rather than one. With that logic, humans should always be trading barrels, but that runs the risk of sending barrels to the wolves. So any pair of two players could start the game with a request to trade barrels, making them safe from raid. If no barrel is obtained from the trade, the player traded with is a wolf, unless the wolves successfully managed to intercept the trade. If both players obtain a barrel, they clear each other of being a human and can claim so in the topic, meaning further deliveries to them are relatively safe, other than the fact that the wolves can intercept them, and reducing the lynch pool.

Looking at the game like that makes it seem quite human-sided. Is there any downside to having the wolves start with a barrel as well?
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: davy on March 16, 2024, 02:45:29 AM
Now in something unrelated to forum TWG (and I apologise if it therefore doesn't belong here): in a couple of months I'll be at a bachelor's party of a good friend of mine, with a total of 12 people, which is pretty ideal for a werewolf game, but a little too many people for most other games. Problem with playing TWG irl is that it is an elimination game, and having to just sit there and watch while the other people keep playing isn't very fun.

So I have been thinking about playing a 12 player (or 11 player 1 host) TWG variant without elimination. Unfortunately, the ones I know cap out at 10 players (Avalon and Secret Hitler) or have a bit too much randomness and unbalance for my liking (Saboteur with expansion).

So I've been thinking about designing such a game by myself, but most of my experience designing TWG's has been with elimination, so I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions of what kind of non-elimination TWG I can play and how it can be balanced for 12 players.
Title: Re: Hosting and Balancing
Post by: Toby on March 17, 2024, 05:39:49 AM
Quote from: davy on March 16, 2024, 02:45:29 AMNow in something unrelated to forum TWG (and I apologise if it therefore doesn't belong here): in a couple of months I'll be at a bachelor's party of a good friend of mine, with a total of 12 people, which is pretty ideal for a werewolf game, but a little too many people for most other games. Problem with playing TWG irl is that it is an elimination game, and having to just sit there and watch while the other people keep playing isn't very fun.

So I have been thinking about playing a 12 player (or 11 player 1 host) TWG variant without elimination. Unfortunately, the ones I know cap out at 10 players (Avalon and Secret Hitler) or have a bit too much randomness and unbalance for my liking (Saboteur with expansion).

So I've been thinking about designing such a game by myself, but most of my experience designing TWG's has been with elimination, so I was wondering if any of you have any suggestions of what kind of non-elimination TWG I can play and how it can be balanced for 12 players.

No experience but my initial thoughts would be either something like an infected/recruitment style game where every night the wolf recruits another wolf or 2 but not sure how you would manage lynches.

But a better idea could be an Arsonist style game where every night the arsonist can douse a few people in oil, then when day comes instead of a lynch the humans vote to 'throw oil' over the arsonist to reveal them. If they choose another human that player is doused in oil and the game continues. If they choose the arsonist then they reveal themselves as such and humans win. Arsonist wins when they've doused everyone in oil and instead of dousing anyone else during the night, instead they choose to ignite which burns everyone doused in oil - killing them off and leaving the arsonist as the last one standing. I enjoy the arsonist role because of the paranoi people have knowing they're marked for death  . The arsonist can pretend like they've been doused in oil too to try blend in.