As a member of NSM, I, Dude, have a few complaints that need to be addressed. First, the way the staff (and I guess the whole forum in a way) has been divided has really been getting on my nerves and no one is addressing it. Half follow MaestroUGC and the rest... don't. They can't seem to agree on anything. I've also noticed a very large amount of favoritism by the mods as well. New members might not notice it at first but after a while certain mods will either start being really lenient or really harsh with punishments.
For example,
Quote from: Dude on December 31, 2015, 03:39:47 AMQuote from: mariolegofan on December 30, 2015, 09:33:41 PMTake a shot every time Noc says he'll kill himself and doesn't
In case he edits it.
this only got him a warning, whereas this,
Quote from: Dude on March 20, 2016, 04:38:00 PMQuote from: Dude on March 20, 2016, 04:34:10 PMThen make a post in said topic with your opinions on it.
Don't just link it and expect us to move there.
https://youtu.be/9oYs_hSlfy0
gets me banned for 3 days. I don't see why this should be the case because mods should be unbiased and I feel like this is one of many case where they misstepped.
Which brings me to my final point, why do we even have so many mods? We used to be able to handle this stuff fine with 2 or 3 mods at most... now we have, what, 4? It's really unnecessary. I'd really like it if you would address these concerns quickly.
Thank you for your time.
-Dude
Just want to say that Dude asked me to help draft this and so I agree with every point he's made. I don't want to go into any detail until tomorrow, though, since I'm going to bed and I can't say anything he hasn't already said really
Quote from: Dude on March 26, 2016, 09:01:52 PMgets me banned for 3 days. I don't see why this should be the case because mods should be unbiased and I feel like this is one of many case where they misstepped.
Most websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.
QuoteWhich brings me to my final point, why do we even have so many mods? We used to be able to handle this stuff fine with 2 or 3 mods at most... now we have, what, 4? It's really unnecessary. I'd really like it if you would address these concerns quickly.
To me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately, at least compared to other times, so I'm fine with it as long as things stay relatively peaceful and/or pleasant. In some cases, it's a good idea to have more mods so that it's more likely that there's at least one mod on at any given time (though I'm not suggesting we need more mods! I think the amount we have now is fine).
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMMost websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.
It doesn't merit an extreme bias like that, nor one really at all. If you're taking on a position of authority, you have to put your big boy pants on and accept the fact that insults will probably be thrown at you at some point, and deal with them as if it were directed at whomever. You have to put aside your feelings and be objective; if someone is unable to do this, they shouldn't be a mod.
QuoteTo me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately, at least compared to other times, so I'm fine with it as long as things stay relatively peaceful and/or pleasant.
lol
IMO things get more heated when mods shut down controversial discussions the second they start. It never solves anything and all too often bottles up emotions.
QuoteIn some cases, it's a good idea to have more mods so that it's more likely that there's at least one mod on at any given time (though I'm not suggesting we need more mods! I think the amount we have now is fine).
This is somewhat true, but we can have that going well with 2 or 3. I'm less concerned about the number of mods and more concerned about certain mod's ability to be objective.
Dude is right.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMMost websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.
It's not about insulting mods, it's about insulting people, which mods are. It should be no worse to say something teasing to a mod than it should be to a random member, and it should be no better to say something harmful to a member than it should be to a mod.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMTo me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately
In my humble opinion, it hasn't changed a ton. And I hate to say it, but what you might be noticing is that some members are just choosing to be less active because of the environment.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMMost websites don't appreciate people straight out insulting their mods, whether it is an indirectly or directly stated rule.
Not a bannable offense. Did Kefka ban Slow for those Binacle comments? No? You don't automatically try to send away everyone who you think insulting to you and cite "questioning authority" as the offense. This is not North Korea.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 26, 2016, 11:28:40 PMTo me, it feels like things (at least, discussions between members occuring on the forums) have generally been more civil lately, at least compared to other times, so I'm fine with it as long as things stay relatively peaceful and/or pleasant. In some cases, it's a good idea to have more mods so that it's more likely that there's at least one mod on at any given time (though I'm not suggesting we need more mods! I think the amount we have now is fine).
Hahaha as long as nothing seems wrong to you, it's completely fine!!! Never mind the mods (you know who you are) are taking sides and enabling this rubbish behavior. Unprofessional at best. You can't tell the hostility behind the curtain? I can, and I'm not even the most observant person I know.
If the more mods online is so great, then wouldn't it make sense to have mods that live in different time zones. How come all of you live between GMT -6 and GMT -7? How come all of you represent ONE demographic? Why is homophobia allowed? Etc.
Quote from: Ruto on March 26, 2016, 11:43:56 PMNot a bannable offense. Did Kefka ban Slow for those Binacle comments? No?
Yes, but after like 4 times.
The new strike system has turned into a witch hunt. But the point is, you didn't issue a 1 week ban the first time. That's called being butthurt.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 26, 2016, 11:38:05 PMIt doesn't merit an extreme bias like that, nor one really at all. If you're taking on a position of authority, you have to put your big boy pants on and accept the fact that insults will probably be thrown at you at some point, and deal with them as if it were directed at whomever. You have to put aside your feelings and be objective; if someone is unable to do this, they shouldn't be a mod.
That's not any excuse to be uncouth and belligerent just because you don't like somebody, or don't like what they're doing (
especially when that person is in a position of authority; and the reason for the comment was pretty petty in the first place).
Quote from: Zunawe on March 26, 2016, 11:40:12 PMIt's not about insulting mods, it's about insulting people, which mods are. It should be no worse to say something teasing to a mod than it should be to a random member, and it should be no better to say something harmful to a member than it should be to a mod.
And Dude has consistently insulted a variety of people! :P In this specific case, that was pretty far from a poorly-thought-out-but-intended-to-be-lighthearted jab.
QuoteIn my humble opinion, it hasn't changed a ton. And I hate to say it, but what you might be noticing is that some members are just choosing to be less active because of the environment.
Aside from TWG (which is a different topic entirely), I don't really get the impression that things are super-inactive (not to mention that there are other reasons why people might not post or go inactive anyway, though that is a different topic as well); we can keep going back and forth with subjective opinions, but I don't think much will get done that way!
Quote from: Ruto on March 26, 2016, 11:43:56 PMNot a bannable offense. Did Kefka ban Slow for those Binacle comments? No?
Quote from: KefkaticFanatic on February 08, 2015, 06:16:36 PMAnd before somebody tries to be funny and replies with some dumb joke, being a snarky asshole is also a bannable offense.
It's to be expected that the mods should show discernment at what's crossing the line, and if other mods disagree with their decisions, they should voice their opinions! That's another reason why we have four mods... probably!
QuoteYou don't automatically try to send away everyone who you think insulting to you and cite "questioning authority" as the offense. This is not North Korea.
That's a pretty hyperbolic comparison, especially since:
1: We are nowhere near that state right now.
2: I am not suggesting we should be.
3: You seem to be misconstruing or exaggaterating the situation that was the catalyst for this discussion.
I mean, if anything, having less mods wouldn't help to change your opinion on this (unless those people are ones who are always on your side, I suppose), since you have less people to make judgement calls and peer reviews of decisions (essentially, if you have two people, it's entirely possible that those two people could completely agree with each other, which means that, when they're wrong, nothing gets done, but if you have more people, it's likelier that there will be more different opinions, and more voices to chime in).
QuoteHahaha as long as nothing seems wrong to you, it's completely fine!!! Never mind the mods (you know who you are) are taking sides and enabling this rubbish behavior. Unprofessional at best. You can't tell the hostility behind the curtain? I can, and I'm not even the most observant person I know.
I heavily get the impression that you're only taking into account one side of the situation, especially when you seem to be indirectly insulting anyone who doesn't agree with you.
QuoteIf the more mods online is so great, then wouldn't it make sense to have mods that live in different time zones. How come all of you live between GMT -6 and GMT -7?
As someone who's schedule is/was messed up, I can verify that there tends to be at least one mod on when most members are on. I haven't taken extensive screenshot proof of this, though.
QuoteHow come all of you represent ONE demographic? Why is homophobia allowed? Etc.
Maybe those are the people who are likely to try to/want to become mods? Maybe there are different ways of judging candidates than purely demographics?
People tend to support order instead of anarchy? Ask Jamaha? I don't know, I'm not in charge and don't have behind the scenes knowledge into what goes into mod selection process?
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 27, 2016, 12:55:39 AMAs someone who's schedule is/was messed up, I can verify that there tends to be at least one mod on when most members are on. I haven't taken extensive screenshot proof of this, though.
4:07 AM EDT
No mods around.
Spoiler
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F6s6i5x.png&hash=f8e1b4641eb387f7295300dcf4c152b0821409d3)
Quote from: Dude on March 27, 2016, 01:09:41 AM4:07 AM EDT
No mods around.
Spoiler
(https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.tinypic.com%2F6s6i5x.png&hash=f8e1b4641eb387f7295300dcf4c152b0821409d3)
Spoiler
(https://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/resized-image.ashx/__size/550x0/__key/telligent-evolution-components-attachments/13-02-00-00-00-00-01-86/ContentImage_2D00_CherryPicking.jpg)
At or during the time I made my post, both Kefka and Maestro were on (Kefka's profile currently says: Last Active: Today at 01:17:18 AM). Though, I must emphasize this part of my post... aside from the fact that I never suggested that there should be mods on 24/7.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 27, 2016, 12:55:39 AMwhen most members are on
I'm on, and a few others I guess.
I mean I could make a complete shitstorm in the time they were gone but that's not what I try to do.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on March 27, 2016, 12:55:39 AMMaybe those are the people who are likely to try to/want to become mods? Maybe there are different ways of judging candidates than purely demographics? People tend to support order instead of anarchy? Ask Jamaha? I don't know, I'm not in charge and don't have behind the scenes knowledge into what goes into mod selection process?
Nobody should "try" to become a mod. Ever. If someone wants to be a mod they are not worthy of being a mod, period at the end.
Besides, I don't have an issue with homophobic or w/e mods. I have an issue with mods who say homophobic things in the community, directly hurting part of the userbase, and no one is allowed to call them out on it. Why should that be fair?
As for Jamaha... he hasn't been around lately looool :x
edit: also i really dont see why we're not allowed to publicly air issues with mods, many other places i've been at welcome that kind of discussion, it seems rather "North Korea"-esque as Ruto would have it to automatically stifle complaints...
QuoteThat's a pretty hyperbolic comparison, especially since:
1: We are nowhere near that state right now.
2: I am not suggesting we should be.
3: You seem to be misconstruing or exaggaterating the situation that was the catalyst for this discussion.
I bet people in North Korea sometimes don't realize they're in NORTH KOREA. Hence South Korea's odd practice of broadcasting news and kpop at the NK-SK border. Some of us know more than you, I wouldn't do this for no reason (not being a overdramatic teenager anymore).
QuoteMaybe those are the people who are likely to try to/want to become mods? Maybe there are different ways of judging candidates than purely demographics? People tend to support order instead of anarchy? Ask Jamaha? I don't know, I'm not in charge and don't have behind the scenes knowledge into what goes into mod selection process?
Oh, but some of us do. I don't think Jamaha is aware of some of this stuff, it's the same way people shouldn't vote for misogynist or anti-gay idiots in office, they're never going to be fair and their priorities are going to be skewed. Jamaha is busy. Understand that? It seems like bothering someone when they're busy makes them feel like they'd do anything to get you to go away. That's how I ended up buying Saria sushi because "she wants it."
If your definition of order is a week ban for a warning (+silencing discussions) and 3 of the mods splintering off to make their own decisions because of what ONE thinks, then maybe you really do deserve to live in North Korea.
Quote from: Altissimo on March 27, 2016, 05:00:29 AMNobody should "try" to become a mod. Ever. If someone wants to be a mod they are not worthy of being a mod, period at the end.
edit: also i really dont see why we're not allowed to publicly air issues with mods, many other places i've been at welcome that kind of discussion, it seems rather "North Korea"-esque as Ruto would have it to automatically stifle complaints...
Loool +1
unfortunately, as much as ruto and I have been talking and trying to get in touch wih Jamaha, it's not actually worked so far and it's been a couple weeks. So the only thing left at this point is to address our concerns with the community as a whole. This has been a while in the making.
Quote from: Dude on March 26, 2016, 09:01:52 PMI've also noticed a very large amount of favoritism by the mods as well.
Quote from: Dude on March 26, 2016, 09:01:52 PMbecause mods should be unbiased
Quote from: Dude on August 26, 2015, 02:02:56 PMNo.
Tits or gtfo
Quote from: Dude on January 07, 2015, 02:42:50 PMFuck. you.
Quote from: Dude on November 11, 2012, 11:21:26 AMUmm no. You've been here for a week, you have no idea what you're talking about.
So please stfu.
Quote from: Dude on February 01, 2013, 06:00:12 PMI'm sorry but this is annoying me.
What the fuck will that do? If you're going to say something to make me feel a bit better when you know I'm not Christian, just say something like "I'll keep you in my thoughts.", because when you say you're praying for me that pisses me off incredibly.
Thank you.
Quote from: Dude on August 22, 2011, 06:34:27 PMUniverse-X is a whore/bitch/fucker/badname. I hope he dies in a pit of despair.
Ass.
Quote from: Dude on August 06, 2011, 12:57:14 PMSee you on facebook, mega-bitch.
Quote from: Dude on August 17, 2013, 10:06:08 PMActually, on second thought, fuck you.
If you really don't want to be friends just politely ignore it and not look like a complete asshole.
Honestly, if you don't want to give a fuck about us, then I for one am not going to give a fuck about you.
Quote from: Dude on July 19, 2011, 06:28:17 PMQuote from: blueflower999 on July 19, 2011, 06:03:33 PMIn all seriousness though I would really appriciate it if you didn't cuss. Going back to the original topics, that's one of my biggest pet peeves.
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
Lol I stretched the page post area :3
Quote from: Dude on February 18, 2011, 12:56:48 PMDon't be a fag, drp.
Quote from: Dude on September 30, 2010, 12:05:55 PMinb4 someone says something about you being a stupid little fanboy who has nothing else better to do than to praise Nintendo for the shit games they make 60% of the time.
Oh wait. I just did.
Quote from: Dude on September 26, 2010, 03:39:52 PMActually, one question before I go.
Askalice, why are you even here? You don't do anything. All I've seen you do is be active in this board and nothing else.
You make me sick.
Quote from: Dude on June 19, 2010, 12:49:51 PMThank you.
EDIT: I fucking reported that fucking little fucker, SlowPokemon. Fuck you.
Quote from: Dude on June 13, 2010, 01:29:52 PMI refuse to answer yours.
The person below me thinks U-X is a prick.
Quote from: Dude on June 04, 2010, 11:26:53 AMOk. You seriously need to fuck off.
Quote from: Dude on May 07, 2010, 02:03:42 PMWell, at least you people aren't religious freaks who hate people who disagree with your beliefs. (Akiro/Methos)
I guess I can stand you guys more than him.
EDIT: fixed
Quote from: Dude on May 05, 2010, 03:09:31 PMFuck off U-X
Quote from: Dude on April 25, 2010, 08:54:22 PMwow.
You're retarded, right? Honestly, no one could be this clueless without having a severe mental disability, right?
Edit: So apparently he's in 6th grade, so I guess it could be forgivable.
Quote from: Dude on October 27, 2009, 01:45:49 PMnot really.
The person below me is a religion freak.
Quote from: Dude on August 26, 2015, 01:57:16 PMOk, I'm going to say something and it's probably going to piss some people off, but idgaf.
I don't like how everyone is playing along with TG about his gender. I mean I was OK when his avatar was just chicken fries but now with it being Miku and text like "Omg I'm so pretty #DirtySlut" or some shit it kinda pisses me off.
Plus he mentions wanting a girlfriend multiple times.That was a joke.
So please, stop it with the female pronouns guys.
Quote from: Dude on August 26, 2015, 11:34:18 AM2 out of 3 of those people I don't give a fuck about and have shitty opinions so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Quote from: Dude on July 20, 2015, 06:32:02 PMWhy would you want to kill yourself? You have a pretty good life. See that roof over your head? Notice how it's a comfortable temperature? Your belly full of food? That bed you sleep in? Plenty of people would kill to have a life like yours, and yet you're willing to just throw it away? Do you not realize how fortunate you are? Oh, no one likes you? What about the people who tolerate you enough to try and stop you from hurting or killing yourself? Your life is fine, so shut up about how bad you think it is!
Quote from: Dude on July 20, 2015, 06:37:37 PMWHY DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE IT SO FUCKING BAD?? IMAGINE BEING AN ORPHAN IN AFRICA, FUCKING STARVING WITH NO FUCKING PARENTS. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE THEM INSTEAD?
Quote from: Dude on February 25, 2015, 08:40:04 AMshut up you slutfucker
Quote from: Dude on August 11, 2014, 06:26:49 PMBut you haven't experienced it so your opinion is shit.
Quote from: Dude on October 22, 2013, 02:35:02 PMI don't get why you're so fucking pissed off and it's pissing me off in the process.
Even if I PM'd you, you wouldn't have answered, so why not make it public?
but it's not just dude who thinks this, it's a lot of members, and not with regards to JUST dude, so like, singling out dude's posts simply because he's the one that brought this whole thing forward isn't conducive to discussion really...........
Some of those are rebuttals to other attacks on me anyway so it doesn't really count.
Or sarcasm. Which apparently no one ever understands anymore.
Yes, let's pull up some of the shit people said and did in 2009 or so. Because it helps this situation a lot.
But how does that have to do with what you bolded/etc? Dude never suggested he wanted to be mod.
Dude isn't a mod. If you're staffing the damn place expect to be held to a higher standard.
Also bear in mind that at least half of those are several years old.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Ruto.
Nothing I said had anything to to with a theoretical Dude being a mod. Dude mentioned that he shouldn't have been banned for 3 days because of a recent post. I went ahead and highlighted a few of his previous questionable posts that could have gotten him banned had the mods at the time been 'unbiased' like he suggested. Idk what Ruto and Soot are talking about.
Because saying "fuck" is a bannable offense. Of course.
Feel free to click on any of the quotes. They are all hyperlinks and will send you on a nostalgia fueled adventure and you can see for yourself the context of the quotes. I highly recommend the Universe-X event. Perhaps the TZP event where TZP feels empathy for Dude and says she will pray for him, and Dude attacks her religion. The "The Person Below Me" thread has some awesome passive aggressive remarks you should check out. There's even a suicide related comment in there that is loads worse than mlf's comment. If your excuse for your comments is that they are sarcasm, then that means that mlf can also be forgiven for his post because it was also sarcastic. Therefore your argument is invalid.
If anyone but Dude had said that mods were unfair would you be digging up dirt on them? Listen, I said before, Dude is just the person bringing forth the complaint many of us feel, and I think this is a low blow that is missing the point of the conversation. Can we discuss the complaints instead of attacking the person who decided to be the spokesperson?
Yeah I just felt like saying something.
I'm not the only person who feels this way.
Also, maybe they should have banned me for those comments, but they didn't.
Quote from: Altissimo on March 27, 2016, 01:53:04 PMCan we discuss the complaints instead of attacking the person who decided to be the spokesperson?
Yes
It seems like everyone completely missed my first point.
Well, one of the first things you mentioned was favoritism by mods, such as Kefka having favoritism for you, Ruto, and some others? (Being the sole reason why you were not banned for those comments)
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 01:58:26 PMYes
Then let's actually discuss the possibility of mods picking favorites and not be digging up tons of dirt on the person who happened to bring it up without actually addressing the claim. I don't condone most any of the quotes you brought up, but given that A) they're unrelated and B) they're several years old, they're not the thing we should focus on.\
Favoritism by mods isn't just related to Dude. Take the example of Dudeman issuing me a warning after a satirical statement of a serious comment by another member.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:02:27 PMWell, one of the first things you mentioned was favoritism by mods, such as Kefka having favoritism for you, Ruto, and some others? (Being the sole reason why you were not banned for those comments)
Ok read all of the first paragraph and try again
Team Maestro and Team Kefka. Yeah it really is immature, but it's to be expected as it is basically human nature to divide into parties. Team Kefka members get pardoned by Kefka if they slip up, and team Maestro is basically everyone else on the forum.
As far as mods being leniant/harsh, well the reality is that we have lenient mods, and we have harsh mods. Jamaha wants that. It allows an event to be brought into question, to be discussed by the mods, and to have a compromise made. It's how it should be. In team Kefka, however, it's a decision made by solely Kefka, and has the opportunity to be biased.
Jamaha intended all the mods to work together, however they aren't. 3 work together and the other one doesn't do much, and when he shows up and makes a decision, it's without consulting other mods. Or so I've heard.
1) team kefka doesnt exist
2) I have never been at a forum where people are polarized over mods like this, so "human nature" is inapplicable
3) the 3 mods that "work together" more accurately are just always agreeing on issues and not allowing dissent from any other mod
4) ok, Jamaha can have harsh and lenient mods, but that does not correlate with BIASED mods
5) pds what happened to you pls post what you are referencing bc that sounds dumb (getting warned)
Quote from: Altissimo on March 27, 2016, 02:23:13 PM1) team kefka doesnt exist
2) I have never been at a forum where people are polarized over mods like this, so "human nature" is inapplicable
3) the 3 mods that "work together" more accurately are just always agreeing on issues and not allowing dissent from any other mod
4) ok, Jamaha can have harsh and lenient mods, but that does not correlate with BIASED mods
5) pds what happened to you pls post what you are referencing bc that sounds dumb (getting warned)
1) Omg you have no idea - Team Kefka has it's own Skype chat named after their goddess Ruto
2) You are not enough of a sample size
3) When you say "any other mod" the only other mod IS Kefka.
4) All mods are biased if they have friends on the forum. It's a complex web of relationships
5) Yeah I was gonna ask for clarification, since I wasn't there.
I don't see how that's supposed to mean anything, honestly.
At this point you're just being salty about individual members and not contributing to the discussion at all. If you want to keep derailing it fine, but we're interested in having an actual discussion.
Edited.
@winter: you're post is so backwards, if you're referring to present times.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:13:12 PMTeam Maestro and Team Kefka. Yeah it really is immature, but it's to be expected as it is basically human nature to divide into parties. Team Kefka members get pardoned by Kefka if they slip up, and team Maestro is basically everyone else on the forum.
This mentality I will agree is immature, and I have noticed a degree of it. However, it looks more like the opposite: Sheep that seem to blindly follow maestro's bizarre modding and rules without question label anyone that doesn't think that way as a group and puts kefka as the "supposed" leader. Newsflash sheep: kefka doesn't lead some secret army of rebels, you imagined that up. Just because he has common sense and thinks rationally (which will contradict other mods; what a world) doesn't make him super special, it makes him normal. People who don't think logically in this manner are what I fear.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:13:12 PMIt allows an event to be brought into question, to be discussed by the mods, and to have a compromise made. It's how it should be. In team Kefka, however, it's a decision made by solely Kefka, and has the opportunity to be biased.
BS. Until recently, there has been almost 0 viewable discussions between maestro and the two new mods, and what little discussion can be seen is: maestro saying something absurd and the other two blindly agreeing (most likely out of intimidation). The reason we wanted more moderators was so that there could be discussion
before decisions were hastily made. Unfortunately, the opposite occurred: rather than discussion taking place, maestro will propose something, the other two will quickly agree with it, and majority is free to stamp blind approvals. Ffs, look at what he's done to the rules. In an effort to make things more "clear," it's more convoluted than ever. The old rules were fine, and kefk and I both said that.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:13:12 PMJamaha intended all the mods to work together, however they aren't. 3 work together and the other one doesn't do much, and when he shows up and makes a decision, it's without consulting other mods. Or so I've heard.
From what I've seen, kefka is playing clean-up duty. Not to mention ofc. your mods aren't going to work together if you're excluding one from a private mod chat. That shit is childish.
Quote from: Altissimo on March 27, 2016, 02:23:13 PM5) pds what happened to you pls post what you are referencing bc that sounds dumb (getting warned)
It was the "Rant" thread, and Noc said
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 01, 2016, 08:26:05 PMbeing an atheist is as confusing as believing the earth is flat
Because I ranted about how Satanism =/= Devil Worship.
I responded with
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 01, 2016, 08:29:36 PMCare to explain why and not just make blanket statements about a point of view? Because otherwise it's just as fair for me to say stupid shit without any arguments like
"heh christians iz stoooped cuz tehy is offunded by a 5 point star wif a goat but der symbowl is a dead jew on a cross"
(although, even still, that one at least has some sort of underlying joke. Your statement is just purposefully inflammatory)
You said
Quote from: Altissimo on February 01, 2016, 08:35:28 PMYeah, and you're falling for it. Look, PDS, I know you mean well and I'm an atheist too so I know exactly where you're coming from, but literally nothing good can be accomplished by you taking the bait. Internet arguments never go well, no matter who's involved and who's on what side.
I responded with,
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 01, 2016, 08:40:03 PMThere is a lovely device called a forum ban for people who make openly inflammatory remarks.
Dudeman said,
Quote from: Dudeman on February 01, 2016, 08:43:48 PMI wholeheartedly agree.
[insert previous attempted equivalence about Christianity]
Consider yourself warned.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2016, 02:41:09 PM[snip]
THANK YOU.
Oh yeah, that. I have to agree: not only is it kind of shitty to punish one inflammatory remark but not another, but Dudeman handled it poorly. Much as I think he was just baiting for the sake of it, that shouldn't be encouraged and is a prime example of the issue(s) at hand.
@Olimar: thanks!!!!
I don't know how nobody else is aware of the Team Kefka circlejerk that's been going on since '08. Just because it's not visible doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
If it's not visible or detectable, I'd be very curious on your evidence for existence.
I've left that chatroom out of disgust about a couple of months ago, so I won't be able to show you. It's not likely they're gonna add any new people to that Skype room NOW either since I've mentioned it in this way.
You seem to be taking this personally. I'm going to have to ask that you continue this conversation logically and rationally, without biases so that we may progress with the issue. Pls keep personal issues/beefs to yourself so that we may be productive and not degenerate to shit flinging. c:
It's not personal. I was never attacked in that Chatroom, rather, I stood by idly while I watched Dude, Ruto, Kefka, and others discuss and make decisions on the fate of other members in NSM.
Nvm i dont feel like continuing this line of discourse
if you stood by idly then why are you a mod in the first place
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@winter: Not true. There is a difference between blowing off steam and actually making decisions. As healthy people, we blow off steam privately rather then publicly, and most things said there don't actually happen.
Example:
"Man, so and so did this and it annoyed me!"
"We should ban him!!"
"Yeah!"
"I'm hungry"
"Yeah...
I have a solution. Ready for this?
Arrange some great music, and don't give an eff about anything else.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:24:21 PM1) Omg you have no idea - Team Kefka has it's own Skype chat named after their goddess Ruto
I thought it was Ruto and maestro who made it first and then maestro went on an ego trip thing and got the boot.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 27, 2016, 02:53:18 PMif you stood by idly then why are you a mod in the first place
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Probably because I'm not a mod. I'm an Updater given moderator privileges to assist with my job.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:57:20 PMProbably because I'm not a mod. I'm an Updater given moderator privileges to assist with my job.
You're still a staff member who was in the chat room and able to do something about it or at the very least try.
Quote from: Bespinben on March 27, 2016, 02:56:30 PMI have a solution. Ready for this?
Arrange some great music, and don't give an eff about anything else.
I'd love for this to be the case, but we have clearly biased mods who, when they aren't shutting down anything more controversial than "I love apple pie", are taking clear favorites.
Speaking of unnecessary staff members, when was the last time you even updated?
I'm sorry, Ben, but if we could all focus on music and little else we'd have a) no need for so many mods and b) this struggle. I can't agree with you simply because this is an issue that permeates the music. I can see how you would be detached from it but that's just not a solution that we can use here.
@PDS: Not to mention nobody in the chatroom made decisions about NSM that actually were put into practice!
Nah fuck, I'd have better things to do and other posts expected to be written but this crosses the fucking line
First of all,
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 01:03:04 PM*quotes*
Instead of addressing the point he has, you decide to go dig for dirt(quotes
from 2009 hello) in an attempt to make him look bad or somehow invalidate the point he has? This is
reaaaaally petty and the definition of ad hominem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem). This sort of attacking definitely doesn't help off shaking off the biased vibe the staff supposedly has, honestly I wouldn't have expected you to handle this so immaturely.
Dude was banned for three days,
for no valid reason other than posting a tumblr meme in a callout post:Quote from: Dude on March 20, 2016, 04:38:00 PMhttps://youtu.be/9oYs_hSlfy0
Quote from: Dudeman on March 20, 2016, 04:46:36 PMEnjoy your ban.
which wasn't even against the rules:Quote from: KefkaticFanatic on March 20, 2016, 07:06:34 PMSnarky insults that are commonstock are not covered by that rule. I can't say for why he was banned beyond some mod telling me they didn't like that he was disrespecting authority. That is also not against any rules.
Also no nsm rule about it either.
Like as much as I would like to avoid this "mod hate bandwagon", it's really fucking clear these decisions are incredibly inconsistent,
they don't even follow NSM's rules and are inflicted from people's desire to punish someone even if there's no valid reason to do so. This needs to change now and I know NSM is capable of better.
"how about showing us some of these "biased" decisions" Surely if you weren't convinced by the example above
here's another hypocritical/biased decision from Dudeman who has provenly previously said,
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 01, 2016, 08:26:05 PMbeing an atheist is as confusing as believing the earth is flat
(also if you think I'm manipulating the context, go ahead go check the convo yourself)
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on February 01, 2016, 08:29:36 PMCare to explain why and not just make blanket statements about a point of view? Because otherwise it's just as fair for me to say stupid shit without any arguments like
"heh christians iz stoooped cuz tehy is offunded by a 5 point star wif a goat but der symbowl is a dead jew on a cross"
(although, even still, that one at least has some sort of underlying joke. Your statement is just purposefully inflammatory)
Quote from: Dudeman on February 01, 2016, 08:43:48 PMConsider yourself warned.
Quote from: Dudeman on February 01, 2016, 08:56:35 PMYou could have made a conscious decision to just let Noc's comment slide, but you decided to do this the hard way and take it as an attack on you. And I don't believe he's the only one who makes "blanket statements about a point of view." We all do that, and calling someone else out on it doesn't make you look any better.
^this quote shows ridiculous bias, and it's clearly not universalizable.
An easy argument here is since Dudeman is provenly a conservative Christian, it's easy for him to be ignorant towards other people's other beliefs(especially atheism). But I'd rather focus on the actual shit that has been said, not the person behind the text.
In this instance he was letting Noc's disrespectful comments that mock people's faith slide without any valid reasoning, yet he still tried to indict PDS over doing something worse? You can't justify Noc flamebaiting(
for the umpteenth time) with "it's just a blanket statement we all say those". First of all, hasty generalization. Second of all, people have every right to call someone out when someone upright goes and is disrespectful to their beliefs. You can't be expected to do nothing when someone is attacking you or your beliefs for the sake of attacking them.
It's up to you moderators that there shouldn't be a need to call anyone out for flaming. Not allow this garbage from happening.
There are so many more examples of this kind of biased decisions and I can easily go fetch some more if you honestly need me to. There are tons of example of biased blind eye given to flaming, baiting those flames and provoking fucking suicide.
If you're gonna ban Dude
for not breaking any rules and not even warn someone, or ignore report notices when they flamebait or suggest someone to kill themselves, there's clearly a problem to be addressed.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 01:50:03 PMFeel free to click on any of the quotes. They are all hyperlinks and will send you on a nostalgia fueled adventure and you can see for yourself the context of the quotes. I highly recommend the Universe-X event. Perhaps the TZP event where TZP feels empathy for Dude and says she will pray for him, and Dude attacks her religion. The "The Person Below Me" thread has some awesome passive aggressive remarks you should check out. There's even a suicide related comment in there that is loads worse than mlf's comment. If your excuse for your comments is that they are sarcasm, then that means that mlf can also be forgiven for his post because it was also sarcastic. Therefore your argument is invalid.
This entire argument is invalid because it's literally a logical fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:02:27 PMWell, one of the first things you mentioned was favoritism by mods, such as Kefka having favoritism for you, Ruto, and some others? (Being the sole reason why you were not banned for those comments)
When you're talking about favoritism,
please provide examples comparing to other punishments given, to prove your point of favoritism. Like I compared Dudeman's punishment towards Dude and lack of punishment to NocturneOfShadows(with multiple other provable examples like that).
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:13:12 PMTeam Maestro and Team Kefka. Yeah it really is immature, but it's to be expected as it is basically human nature to divide into parties. Team Kefka members get pardoned by Kefka if they slip up, and team Maestro is basically everyone else on the forum.
As far as mods being leniant/harsh, well the reality is that we have lenient mods, and we have harsh mods. Jamaha wants that. It allows an event to be brought into question, to be discussed by the mods, and to have a compromise made. It's how it should be. In team Kefka, however, it's a decision made by solely Kefka, and has the opportunity to be biased.
Jamaha intended all the mods to work together, however they aren't. 3 work together and the other one doesn't do much, and when he shows up and makes a decision, it's without consulting other mods. Or so I've heard.
Are you serious right now (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma), you're generalizing the entire forum to be divided into two groups? Where do I belong in this?
I'm literally part of no group or chat like this, and yet I have valid concerns of the bias shown by the mods. So far you on the other hand haven't even proven your claims of how Kefka seemingly is biased. While you're at it, please address my arguments that I've brought up of the bias shown on the forums, since they're clearly in conflict with your unbacked claims!! None of your claims concerning Kefka or Jamaha so far really show any rational reasoning or proof behind them. What makes your view unbiased about this matter? Please use rational reasoning and proof behind your claims and arguments.
With all due respect, though, deleting Winter's post is unnecessary.
EDIT: Daaaamn Waddle back at it again with the superior arguments
Yeah. I'm being a jerk right now. I'll admit it :P
But I really do feel that I can't work with you.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 27, 2016, 03:01:29 PMWith all due respect, though, deleting Winter's post is unnecessary.
I deleted my post. I was out of line.
Touche, then. I thought Olimar had deleted it, my bad.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 27, 2016, 03:03:52 PMTouche, then. I thought Olimar had deleted it, my bad.
I did not, cannot, and would not. If he wants to look like an ignorant bigot, then I'm only here to correct him when what he says is wrong.
Afterwords: Terribly sorry if I came across hostile!! I get a little annoyed if people try to justify their shit with invalid bs, please don't take anything I said as personal attacks, even though there was none!!
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2016, 03:05:49 PMI did not, cannot, and would not. If he wants to look like an ignorant bigot, then I'm only here to correct him when what he says is wrong.
Duely noted; my apologies for making a hasty assumption.
So anyway, I was pointing out something very simple with my quote wall. Dude has been forgiven many times and a lot of his mistakes have been ignored during a time period in which only Kefka was a mod. there were no other mods. period. If you want to pretend like that's not the truth, fine.
Kefka, Ruto, Dude and some other veteran members do back eachother in arguments. That is also a fact. say what you will, but I will not revoke those statements.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:08:24 PMSo anyway, I was pointing out something very simple with my quote wall. Dude has been forgiven many times and a lot of his mistakes have been ignored during a time period in which only Kefka was a mod. there were no other mods. period. If you want to pretend like that's not the truth, fine.
This can only be relevant if you can prove that, during this same period, Kefka showed undue amounts of discrimination toward other members.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:08:24 PMSo anyway, I was pointing out something very simple with my quote wall. Dude has been forgiven many times and a lot of his mistakes have been ignored during a time period in which only Kefka was a mod. there were no other mods. period. If you want to pretend like that's not the truth, fine.
please read my post :] besides this point(and the quote wall) can't be relevant in anyway, unless you can back up your claims that if it was someone else in the same position other than Dude, the person would have been treated with bias.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:08:24 PMKefka, Ruto, Dude and some other veteran members do back eachother in arguments. That is also a fact. say what you will, but I will not revoke those statements.
Again, you're focusing on the people behind the arguments instead of the actual arguments. It's a logical fallacy!! It doesn't matter who is defending who, just their arguments.
Fine, damn i'll go through every post ever in this forum and ban 40% of you guys. At least then I'll be treating you all fairly, say goodbye to literally all of our mods. all of our updaters, all of our veteran members, and literally everybody that isn't one of the people that stopped by and made 2-3 posts thanking NSM for hosting their favorite sheet music an promptly leaving.
You've all broken rules or been assholes at some point. Besides Bespinben, what a larke.
Trust me, you don't WANT every post to be looked at equally. This is why mods exist and can choose what are warnings, what are temporary bans. And objectively, Dude had it coming to him! More than anybody!
Got over yourselves.
I think you're missing the point, Winter...
If you're willing to say something of someone you should be ready to have the shit to back your claims up. You're antagonizing Kefka but you're uncapable of providing reasoning to why that is(other than personal problems). You see the problem?
If you look closely, I didn't do anything besides put some things out in the open., I didn't ban Dude, I didn't do anything except respond to his post to inform him that yes, he did indeed deserve a 3 day ban, probably more. And sure NSM also has a bit of a questionable staff situation, it's pretty freaking obvious. I'm trying to address that right now! Kefka's an asshole and works /alone/ but I'd agree with 90% of his bans and decisions. I do not, however agree with what he has neglected to IGNORE.
As fas as Maestro, you say things are unfair, he obviously agrees and is attempting to change things RIGHT NOW.
The other two mods I barely know, but give them a break, they're doing their jobs too! Who gives a shit if you got a warning??? It's a warning, I can't imagine how many real-life jobs would be lost with that attitude.
Me on the other hand, I do NOTHING right now because the forum is so hard to participate in, I mean seriously, Deku left me all alone with you assholes, I'll bet it you asked him, he'd say he left because he was left alone with all you assholes when NSM ran off Universe-X, Shadoninja, and the other Updaters got lives.
Maybe the problem is the forum and not the staff.
Er... Correct me if I'm wrong, but you were inactive long before Deku left, right?
I stopped posting after a while, but I worked one-on-one with Deku checking sheets until the day he left
Lol what? I don't remember that, and I was here when Deku bid farewell.
Good for you.
The point is Dude called into question the character of certain members of the forum and accused them of bias, and immediately went to use himself as an example of said bias. The immediate counter argument to that is you cannot possibly be unbiased about actions taken against you, so the fact you're accusing others of bias for said action is already questionable. Secondly, this is entirely a debate of character of people and the perspectives thereof, so Winter's quote wall goes a long way to showing the long term behavior of Dude, who's actions are now being called into question. It clearly demonstrates a pattern of outbursts and relative silence from the moderators, when in most cases he should've been punished. Winter also brought up the Kefka was the only acting mod since roughly 2011-2015, until I came on board.
Also, one of you mentioned that I was a co-creator of Ruto's chat room, a fact that is false. I was invited in by Mashi and was promptly kicked upon my promotion to forum moderator, completely unprovoked. Said room was well established before I was there.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:37:20 PMMe on the other hand, I do NOTHING right now because the forum is so hard to participate in
I'm pretty sure you don't need to pay attention to the off-topic section in order to do updates
I don't like working with Olimar, Dude.
Quote from: MaestroUGC on March 27, 2016, 03:44:21 PMAlso, one of you mentioned that I was a co-creator of Ruto's chat room, a fact that is false. I was invited in by Mashi and was promptly kicked upon my promotion to forum moderator, completely unprovoked. Said room was well established before I was there.
Sorry, that was me, I thought you modded it for a while tho so I assumed you co-created it.
https://soundcloud.com/jub3r7/lxriaohavy04
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:41:19 PMI stopped posting after a while, but I worked one-on-one with Deku checking sheets until the day he left
This is false! Deku officially left 6/8/15 and you were not helping him with submissions then!
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:45:02 PMI don't like working with Olimar, Dude.
If you don't like a co-worker for that long, shouldn't you probably quit that job? I mean he gets along fine with the other updaters fine, right?
Quote from: Olimar12345 on March 27, 2016, 03:48:50 PMThis is false! Deku officially left 6/8/15 and you were not helping him with submissions then!
Says who? Deku unofficially left much before then
Also how can you speak on behalf of what I was doing in private message with Deku?
Quote from: Dude on March 27, 2016, 03:49:09 PMIf you don't like a co-worker for that long, shouldn't you probably quit that job? I mean he gets along fine with the other updaters fine, right?
Yeah, the other Updaters /loooove/ Olimar. ha.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:50:25 PMSays who? Deku unofficially left much before then
Also how can you speak on behalf of what I was doing in private message with Deku?
http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=851.msg293566#msg293566
I mean sure, he has issues, but you aren't a ray of sunshine either
Personally...I feel like Olimar is always trying to do what's best for our site
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 03:50:59 PMYeah, the other Updaters /loooove/ Olimar. ha.
Yeah we don't always get along perfectly, but we get shit done and don't sit and whine when there are technical difficulties that may be easily work around.
Ooooh. personal.
Winter, we said we would be calm about this.
I've got multiple years of frustration about things. you think you're upset about things, but you forget that I'm also in the same position as you. Discussing how wrong things are at the moment. You said you'd be calm, I never did.
I tried calm back then:
Quote from: Winter on August 22, 2011, 07:00:56 PMThis is getting out of hand. Please stop now.
Re: The Rant Thread/My Life Sucks Topic [Don't be pricks]
Sir, I've been here longer than you have so I know how things are supposed to be. The way it is now is not it.
Out of context quote ftw
You're tearing me apart, Lisa.
Let's bash me even more, thanks Winter.
Quote from: MaestroUGC on March 27, 2016, 03:44:21 PMThe point is Dude called into question the character of certain members of the forum and accused them of bias, and immediately went to use himself as an example of said bias. The immediate counter argument to that is you cannot possibly be unbiased about actions taken against you, so the fact you're accusing others of bias for said action is already questionable.
Whereas others who have taken a look at this objectively have still come to the conclusion that the incident in question, while perhaps able to be linked to a longer strain of general dickishness, was not an appropriate situation to ban him in.
QuoteSecondly, this is entirely a debate of character of people and the perspectives thereof, so Winter's quote wall goes a long way to showing the long term behavior of Dude, who's actions are now being called into question. It clearly demonstrates a pattern of outbursts and relative silence from the moderators, when in most cases he should've been punished. Winter also brought up the Kefka was the only acting mod since roughly 2011-2015, until I came on board.
Most of those quotes were from over 4 years ago.
Dude's case is not the only one; I've brought up mine and there are plenty of others to go 'round. There have been multiple complaints of the two new mods either not doing anything or taking relatively little action.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on March 27, 2016, 04:12:11 PMDude's case is not the only one; I've brought up mine and there are plenty of others to go 'round. There have been multiple complaints of the two new mods either not doing anything or taking relatively little action.
Kinda hard to do that when you get crucified for taking action on something that should be common sense.
Common sense =/= warning one person who made a satirical equivalence about an actually serious derogatory remark.
I would think telling off Noc in some degree for intentionally baiting should also be common sense...
If you're referring to what I think you are, he was.
Quote from: MaestroUGC on March 27, 2016, 04:29:23 PMIf you're referring to what I think you are, he was.
This thread:
http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=1969.msg327076#msg327076
The only time Dudeman did anything REMOTELY close to that was when:
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 01, 2016, 09:06:37 PMas a side note, when do I put time or effort into anything? That pretty much renders your entire argument invalid
Quote from: Dudeman on February 01, 2016, 09:08:00 PMAs a matter of fact, that does put you into a position where you could get yourself into a lot of trouble if you're not careful. So. Try to avoid that.
And that's hardly doing anything. By contrast, when I pointed out that I was only making an equivalence to what he said, this happened.
Quote from: Dudeman on February 01, 2016, 08:56:35 PMExample, shmexample. You could have made a conscious decision to just let Noc's comment slide, but you decided to do this the hard way and take it as an attack on you. And I don't believe he's the only one who makes "blanket statements about a point of view." We all do that, and calling someone else out on it doesn't make you look any better.
Quote from: MaestroUGC on March 27, 2016, 03:44:21 PMI was invited in by Mashi and was promptly kicked upon my promotion to forum moderator, completely unprovoked. Said room was well established before I was there.
wait I wasn't paying attention to this. What? You got pissy about something and left and we just never added you back.
Quote from: MaestroUGC on March 27, 2016, 03:44:21 PMThe point is Dude called into question the character of certain members of the forum and accused them of bias, and immediately went to use himself as an example of said bias. The immediate counter argument to that is you cannot possibly be unbiased about actions taken against you, so the fact you're accusing others of bias for said action is already questionable. Secondly, this is entirely a debate of character of people and the perspectives thereof, so Winter's quote wall goes a long way to showing the long term behavior of Dude, who's actions are now being called into question. It clearly demonstrates a pattern of outbursts and relative silence from the moderators, when in most cases he should've been punished. Winter also brought up the Kefka was the only acting mod since roughly 2011-2015, until I came on board.
Let me break this through
QuoteThe point is Dude called into question the character of certain members of the forum and accused them of bias, and immediately went to use himself as an example of said bias.
Dude didn't use himself as an example, I used him as an example? It's whatever though, since the person throwing out the arguments has no meaning.
QuoteThe immediate counter argument to that is you cannot possibly be unbiased about actions taken against you, so the fact you're accusing others of bias for said action is already questionable.
This is a clear ad hominem(I'm sure you're aware what it means by now), like with Winter. You're focusing on the person behind the arguments, which has
absolutely no effect on the presented arguments. Going about this as if Dude is uncapable of reason is ridiculous, you're claiming it's not possible, but you're not even providing a reason as to why that isn't possible. Why can't a person approach their sentence rationally and with reason? I'm doing it, so why couldn't Dude possibly do it, do the arguments change because he was the one sentenced and not me? I don't think so.
QuoteSecondly, this is entirely a debate of character of people and the perspectives thereof, so Winter's quote wall goes a long way to showing the long term behavior of Dude, who's actions are now being called into question.
Again, you're throwing out claims without reasoning to back them up. "Entirely a debate of character of people and perspectives thereof"?? Are you completely sure you know what debate is? Debate is contention in
argument, in this case the argument was about having no valid reason to ban someone, not about what kind of a person Dude is(because that can't give you a reason to ban him). Your entire argument is based around the ad hominem, a logical fallacy.
QuoteIt clearly demonstrates a pattern of outbursts and relative silence from the moderators, when in most cases he should've been punished. Winter also brought up the Kefka was the only acting mod since roughly 2011-2015, until I came on board.
You can not justify banning Dude with just the things he has done in the past,
considering how he broke no rules in this case. Also it's clear how the ban from Dudeman wasn't even for ex post facto reasons(as shown by the event itself), and even his past mistakes shouldn't be enough to ban him currently. And like I told Winter, if you're implying Kefka is biased, you should be able to prove that to everyone when doing so.
Quote from: Winter on March 27, 2016, 02:24:21 PM1) Omg you have no idea - Team Kefka has it's own Skype chat named after their goddess Ruto
2) You are not enough of a sample size
3) When you say "any other mod" the only other mod IS Kefka.
4) All mods are biased if they have friends on the forum. It's a complex web of relationships
5) Yeah I was gonna ask for clarification, since I wasn't there.
Quote from: Dude on March 27, 2016, 04:38:56 PMwait I wasn't paying attention to this. What? You got pissy about something and left and we just never added you back.
I think that was winter after I didn't spill the beans on my current relationship news and he got mad I wasn't going to post it in a chat. Yeah, this is totally worth bringing into a discussion. /sarcasm And why the hell did you even bring me up otherwise? -.- It seems that reason was personal and I won't have any of that. *snaps fingers*
If I sense a troublemaker, they get removed. That's not being a victim, it was just the chat members going nuts about another thing related to your posts, not "your promotion." Heck, I would have removed you before for those comments about my professor's son because that was just wrong. Like, if you were to comment like that about "friends stuff," what made you think I would let you around more of that? I know lots of the people on the chat personally and if they didn't feel comfortable with one person on the chat, what do you think I would do?
Nice going Waddle. Without bringing up dirty details.
Quote from: Ruto on March 27, 2016, 05:03:12 PMIf I sense a troublemaker, they get removed. That's not being a victim, it was just the chat members going nuts about another thing related to your posts, not "your promotion." Heck, I would have removed you before for those comments about my professor's son because that was just wrong. Like, if you were to comment like that about "friends stuff," what made you think I would let you around more of that? I know lots of the people on the chat personally and if they didn't feel comfortable with one person on the chat, what do you think I would do?
Are you talking about me? I'm not sure what you're referring to
no b/c you left and weren't kicked.
Ah, I was getting confused what some of her pronouns meant.
i'll address a few things. Yes, MLF should have been banned for making that remark on suicide.
Dudeman issued a warning and Dude's response was "What are you waiting for, you dumb stupid fuck"
That did not warrant a 3 day ban but I really don't know why anyone was surprised a mod might react like that.
I don't think the problem is too many moderators. Some people are being assholes and other people aren't reacting well.
This definitely goes for both sides and on both ends of the spectrum.
Some of you have surprised me with this. Others... I don't know what I was expecting. I guess it's the internet, after all.
While we're on the subject of NSM's current state of affairs, I believe the forum software is vulnerable to SQL Injection.
(SQL injection is a technique where malicious users can inject SQL commands into an SQL statement, via web page input.
Injected SQL commands can alter SQL statement and compromise the security of a web application.)
The only proven way to protect a web site from SQL injection attacks, is to use SQL parameters.
SQL parameters are values that are added to an SQL query at execution time, in a controlled manner.
There's another problem and a possible solution that won't help change anything.
Quote from: Jub3r7 on March 27, 2016, 05:48:17 PMSome people are being assholes and other people aren't reacting well.
Eh. I think this sums up my feelings pretty well; I was going to say more, but I don't think it would help anything right now (please don't prove me wrong).
yay time for me to post
most of you hate me but yeah the mods are biased and we should probably have a couple less that's all thanks bye
Quote from: braixen1264 on March 27, 2016, 06:04:09 PMThis is a warning:
On your next violation of the rules, you'll receive a 6 month ban, as you have a substantial amount of unpunished actions in the past.
This decision has been agreed on by the staff.
ok but didn't dudeman say that kefka couldn't punish retroactively for something MLF did. Why did it suddenly change? Did I miss something?
Excellent point.
Quote from: Jub3r7 on March 27, 2016, 05:48:41 PMWhile we're on the subject of NSM's current state of affairs, I believe the forum software is vulnerable to SQL Injection.
(SQL injection is a technique where malicious users can inject SQL commands into an SQL statement, via web page input.
Injected SQL commands can alter SQL statement and compromise the security of a web application.)
The only proven way to protect a web site from SQL injection attacks, is to use SQL parameters.
SQL parameters are values that are added to an SQL query at execution time, in a controlled manner.
There's another problem and a possible solution that won't help change anything.
Elaborate? Might be better to PM me.
I think concerns have been sufficiently raised, so this thread has run its course. In the future, I would appreciate it if people could try to keep this content more ambiguous and not personal call-outs. That sort of thing belongs strictly in PMs. Discussions about individuals and their bans, previous bans, warnings, etc. doesn't really have much value in the forum proper.
Jub plz dont h4x nsm
Some people on this forum are just kids. They do dumb things, say dumb things, and in general act immature. They are allowed to be children. You can be annoyed, you can be unhappy, but you need to learn to coexist.
We will have debates. We will have debate threads, but it is inevitable for debates to spill over into other discussions. That is ok, providing it keeps a reasonable amount of civility. Heated discussion is expected, but degrading into flame wars is beneath you all and it will be stopped if it becomes a nuisance.
Maybe in these debates you will learn something about somebody that makes you gain strong opinions toward them. Maybe those are negative opinions. That's cool, but that doesn't give you a free pass to shit on people. Maybe a lot of people don't like somebody. That can happen, but it doesn't give you a free pass to shit on them. Yes, some people will be sarcastic. Yes, some people might comment negatively. It's the same as when you might have interactions in public. Your job is to not let that incite you into some grand battle of poo-throwing. Our jobs as mods is to discourage that and put a stop to it if absolutely necessary.