NSM has become a terrible place.
Our site is run by moderators who clearly play favorites, and have egos the size of Alaska. (I'm talking about Maestro and Dudeman, right here.)
Our sheet acceptance and updating process has gone to shit, thanks to people thinking they're good at something they are nowhere near qualified to do.
(Looking at you, Bespinben, with your edited comment about me and Dude.)
Some of the younger members are absolute assholes and get away with it because mods play favorites
(Looking at you, MarioLegoFan-er, I mean, Sebastian. It's because of your moronic actions that we can't use an alt for a joke.)
Jamaha, bless your heart, you are not doing your job with upkeeping this website. I know why that is, but it is still your responsibility to appoint someone else as ruler of this place in your absence. Probably Deku or something.
As some of you probably know, I was recently banned for several weeks after making an alt called GiIvaSunner and uploading joke arrangements.
I was hit with a ban for an alternate account, which is fine, I broke the rules and that's on me. I was also "Warned for plagiarism," because I used arrangements from the main site as the base for my jokes and submitted those jokes. Which is all they were. Jokes.
Everything you were banned for was reasonable, the mods are reasonable people who don't let favoritism get in the way of serious decisions, the updaters know more about music than you, and Sebastian is not an asshole (and not even young. He's been here for a few years).
welcome back
I missed you
Quote from: SlowPokemon on September 09, 2016, 10:07:36 AMEverything you were banned for was reasonable, the mods are reasonable people who don't let favoritism get in the way of serious decisions, the updaters know more about music than you, and Sebastian is not an asshole (and not even young. He's been here for a few years).
The updaters may know more than I specifically do, but remember when an entire update had to be taken down because it was hastily done?
I do.
http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=8729.0
Sebastian's more of an idiot, I'll give you that.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on September 09, 2016, 10:11:41 AM<3
welcome back
I missed you
examples of MLF being a dick
NSM Superlatives:
"Great work, LatBraix!
Can't wait to see more.
A+"
In regards to a comment towards Ruto, who clearly had a problem with the comment.
DK 64:
"Purple: Sheet is perfect note accuracy-wise, formatting-wise, and arranger/composer names, copyright info, titles, and page numbers are properly aligned."
"Inb4 12/8"
Passive-Agressive much?
In terms of favoritism:
"Why is it when MLF is a dick to Ruto he gets nothing but when I was a dick 3 years ago I get warned?"
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 09, 2016, 10:17:28 AMThe updaters may know more than I specifically do, but remember when an entire update had to be taken down because it was hastily done?
I do.
http://forum.ninsheetmusic.org/index.php?topic=8729.0
So, you'll say a blanket statement about an update no one knew about, except Ben?
No, I'm serious. We only found out because Latios notices the sheet counter on the site took a leap. Ben has taken full responsibility, and has made a large effort to change his ways, so stop giving him a hard time about something he regrets doing.
Speaking of which, this isn't the first time it's happened. During your "good old days, where the sheet quality was high," when the counter was nearing the 2000 mark, people were accepting completely unacceptable sheets, and, it got so bad, that many sheets were removed, bringing the total back under 2000 even after the 2000 mark had been reached.
Stop pretending that any of your complaints are suddenly problems now, and have either
A) Always been problems
B) Only seem like problems to you
It's rather annoying, and will probably earn you another ban if you continue to antagonize specific individuals.
Did I call you out in this topic? No? Then it's probably because I'm talking about Ben and not you.
And how about that "Thanks to Dude and Shadowkirby" statement he made? That's a dick move.
And as far as the problems that have always been there, how about we not make them worse by accepting projects out of spite?
I know for a fact I'm not thing only one who sees these things as problems.
And updaters are not the main focus of this anyway. Mods are a much bigger problem.
I agree with maelstrom, the DK takeback is a resolved deal and that hatchet needs to be buried. The favoritism thing is and could be an issue. For example, I doubt that anyone will seriously consider the 4-6 month ban ultimatum that was put on mlf upon their next infraction (of apparently any caliber).
Quote from: Olimar12345 on September 09, 2016, 10:52:55 AMI agree with maelstrom, the DK takeback is a resolved deal and that hatchet needs to be buried. The favoritism thing is and could be an issue. For example, I doubt that anyone will seriously consider the 4-6 month ban ultimatum that was put on mlf upon their next infraction (of apparently any caliber).
Whereas Dude put up an image that no one understood until SOMEONE made a shitstorm about it, and look what happened to him!
The image was an obvious joke or parody (there's another thing that is often misunderstood). I've said it before, but a ban on posting that image was not justified in the least.
Quote from: Olimar12345 on September 09, 2016, 10:57:00 AMThe image was an obvious joke or parody (there's another thing that is often misunderstood). I've said it before, but a ban on posting that image was not justified in the least.
And for 4 months too
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 09, 2016, 09:52:18 AMOur sheet acceptance and updating process has gone to shit, thanks to people thinking they're good at something they are nowhere near qualified to do.
(Looking at you, Bespinben, with your edited comment about me and Dude.)
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 09, 2016, 10:41:54 AMDid I call you out in this topic? No? Then it's probably because I'm talking about Ben and not you.
And updaters are not the main focus of this anyway. Mods are a much bigger problem.
I'm an updater. Blanket statements still apply to all the updaters, regardless of whether you direct it towards a person in particular or not. And, why did this oddly all-encompassing provocative statement even exist if all you wanted to do was call out a single project?
I guess the blame for that falls on my wording, which definitely could have been done better. I meant to have more of a focus on Ben than what ended up happend.
My apologies.
because he's upset and he wants everyone to know that he's unhappy with the forum's current structure. Keep up, man
The critical point here is there needs to be an active ADMIN. Having consequences for your decisions as a staff member by this admin figure is crucial. Being a staff member and knowing you are being supervised will be a huge benefit to the unity of our team.
This is not directed at any staff member in particular. In fact, It was me that was responsible for this:
Quote from: Maelstrom on September 09, 2016, 10:35:54 AMDuring your "good old days, where the sheet quality was high," when the counter was nearing the 2000 mark, people were accepting completely unacceptable sheets, and, it got so bad, that many sheets were removed, bringing the total back under 2000 even after the 2000 mark had been reached.
Don't get me wrong, I love Jamaha, in fact, I'd like to see more of him. More administration in general.
I feel like it's okay to make complaints about things to try and be constructive, but you don't have to go being a jerk about it.
Is it possible to make a supermod/mini admin that does the same thing?
I volunteer
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on September 09, 2016, 02:28:12 PMIs it possible to make a supermod/mini admin that does the same thing?
This is probably the best idea. We need someone who is extremely
neutral to do it.
I can stand behind needing a more active administrator, nothing against jamaha. Everything else you've said sounds like ranting for the sake of ranting. Mods have improved greatly from their darker days, our submission process is probablavely the best its been in NSM history. You bringing up bygones and publicly calling out users is not an ok way to go about this.
I see the mindset of "younger people are idiots" still carries out in the real world, eh? Darn, I was looking forward to not having to deal with that. Oh well. :/
Quote from: FireArrow on September 09, 2016, 02:42:27 PMI can stand behind needing a more active administrator, nothing against jamaha.
^
Quote from: FireArrow on September 09, 2016, 02:42:27 PMEverything else you've said sounds like ranting for the sake of ranting. Mods have improved greatly from their darker days, our submission process is probablavely the best its been in NSM history. You bringing up bygones and publicly calling out users is not an ok way to go about this.
He's just venting out anger. He did get (reasonably) banned after all.
Ninja'd
"Venting out anger" is not an excuse for anything.
Quote from: FireArrow on September 09, 2016, 03:41:27 PM"Venting out anger" is not an excuse for anything.
That's true. Although my response to someone venting out anger is to ignore them completely, people have different ways of dealing with things, and I'm not going to force people against that.
Also he kinda did bring up some things which he really shouldn't have, and that probably calls for response from those people. I'm just here to talk about this "Vice Admin" thing.
Quote from: FireArrow on September 09, 2016, 02:42:27 PMI can stand behind needing a more active administrator, nothing against jamaha. Everything else you've said sounds like ranting for the sake of ranting. Mods have improved greatly from their darker days, our submission process is probablavely the best its been in NSM history. You bringing up bygones and publicly calling out users is not an ok way to go about this.
This is also basically my thoughts. All of the things he complained about aren't even issues at this point--our community is the best it's been in years, in my opinion. (This coming from one of the most outspoken "rebels" against the mods: our mods are doing great jobs.)
Quote from: SlowPokemon on September 09, 2016, 06:15:06 PMThis is also basically my thoughts. All of the things he complained about aren't even issues at this point--our community is the best it's been in years, in my opinion. (This coming from one of the most outspoken "rebels" against the mods: our mods are doing great jobs.)
Although I wasn't here like 5 years ago, I'd say that it could improve some more. One thing I feel that could improve would be fulfilling requests better. Also, getting older submissions submitted/deleted could also be better. But that's not really anything major, just a couple minor things to think about.
^I'm talking about literally community interaction. There was a time (and I'm not finger pointing because we were all part of the problem) when every other day someone was getting angry or furious at other people's comments and it would turn into this giant flame war argument. The community has mellowed down considerably from those hostile times and I'm willing to take requests not being fulfilled or submissions not being deleted if we can live in peace.
Oh, that's what you meant. Well, as I said, I wasn't here 5 years ago :P
I think a lot of the members have just gotten to know each other so there's nothing really to arguable about. Also feels like everyone is making an effort to be good
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 09, 2016, 09:52:18 AMNSM has become a terrible place.
Our site is run by moderators who clearly play favorites, and have egos the size of Alaska. (I'm talking about Maestro and Dudeman, right here.)
Hate to be a dick, but since you're calling people out who in many (though not all) cases have been completely fine, I find no fault in it..
Firstly, our SITE isn't run by any moderator of this forum. Our SITE is run by the updaters. Our FORUM is run by the moderators.
QuoteOur sheet acceptance and updating process has gone to shit, thanks to people thinking they're good at something they are nowhere near qualified to do.
(Looking at you, Bespinben, with your edited comment about me and Dude.)
Uhm, what?
When exactly was the sheet process BETTER? When stuff like this (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/562) was put on site?
We have a systematic checking system for it now, wherein the updaters (who routinely produce well crafted sheets, ESPECIALLY Ben, despite you calling him out for a personal remark [which I have yet to actually find]).
QuoteSome of the younger members are absolute assholes and get away with it because mods play favorites
(Looking at you, MarioLegoFan-er, I mean, Sebastian)
Uhm, Sebastian is coming up on his 4 year anniversary of registration.. Not exactly new. If anyone is getting away with shit tbh it's a person directly calling people out and making sweeping generalizations of the people who run the place.
QuoteIt's because of your moronic actions that we can't use an alt for a joke.)
No, it's more because of the fact that alts are banned by the rules themselves due to their potential for spam being outweighed by the practical joke application :P
QuoteJamaha, bless your heart, you are not doing your job with upkeeping this website. I know why that is, but it is still your responsibility to appoint someone else as ruler of this place in your absence. Probably Deku or something.
It isn't really his job; he volunteers his own time to do all this. Nobody OWES you NSM, he hosts this domain and website and runs it out of his own desire (and likely his own pocket). While I'd love to have a more active admin, the idea that he's obligated to do so is silly and entitled.
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on September 09, 2016, 09:58:25 PMHate to be a dick, but since you're calling people out who in many (though not all) cases have been completely fine, I find no fault in it..
Firstly, our SITE isn't run by any moderator of this forum. Our SITE is run by the updaters. Our FORUM is run by the moderators.
Uhm, what?
When exactly was the sheet process BETTER? When stuff like this (http://www.ninsheetmusic.org/download/pdf/562) was put on site?
We have a systematic checking system for it now, wherein the updaters (who routinely produce well crafted sheets, ESPECIALLY Ben, despite you calling him out for a personal remark [which I have yet to actually find]).
Uhm, Sebastian is coming up on his 4 year anniversary of registration.. Not exactly new. If anyone is getting away with shit tbh it's a person directly calling people out and making sweeping generalizations of the people who run the place.
No, it's more because of the fact that alts are banned by the rules themselves due to their potential for spam being outweighed by the practical joke application :P
It isn't really his job; he volunteers his own time to do all this. Nobody OWES you NSM, he hosts this domain and website and runs it out of his own desire (and likely his own pocket). While I'd love to have a more active admin, the idea that he's obligated to do so is silly and entitled.
thank you so much for your well thought-out and ultimately meaningless comment
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on September 09, 2016, 10:18:43 PMthank you so much for your well thought-out and ultimately meaningless comment
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on September 09, 2016, 10:18:43 PMthank you so much for your well thought-out and ultimately meaningless comment
^beautiful
I actually chuckled pretty hard at that
I mean, that kind of describes everything about this thread ^-^
Quote from: Pianist Da Sootopolis on September 09, 2016, 09:58:25 PMIt isn't really his job; he volunteers his own time to do all this. Nobody OWES you NSM, he hosts this domain and website and runs it out of his own desire (and likely his own pocket). While I'd love to have a more active admin, the idea that he's obligated to do so is silly and entitled.
Yes, he own it and pays for it, but while we're on the topic of asking for power...has anyone
not done this yet?
Anyway, a ton of stuff has been bothering me for a while about this place. Buuuut real life calls.
Quote from: cashwarrior1 on September 09, 2016, 06:17:46 PMAlthough I wasn't here like 5 years ago, I'd say that it could improve some more. One thing I feel that could improve would be fulfilling requests better. Also, getting older submissions submitted/deleted could also be better. But that's not really anything major, just a couple minor things to think about.
I kind of feel like the updaters sometimes deletes submissions too early, before the arranger have had a good attempt to improve his arrangement. Not really a huge deal, but y.
The thing that a lot of people misunderstand is that the whole point of the submissions board is for sheets ready for final checks and evaluations. You're supposed to get things fixed before you submit. And deletion isn't an ultimatum; people are always free to resubmit after they fix their sheets.
Quote from: Latios212 on September 10, 2016, 09:12:01 AMThe thing that a lot of people misunderstand is that the whole point of the submissions board is for sheets ready for final checks and evaluations. You're supposed to get things fixed before you submit. And deletion isn't an ultimatum; people are always free to resubmit after they fix their sheets.
And this is why I barely submit! Because none of my sheets are ready for final checks and I may or may not be too lazy to fix them.
EDIT: Yeah, I should probably apply this more :P
Glad to see the issue was resolved and is at least promoting some discussion about the management of the forums.
Quote from: Wrydryn on September 11, 2016, 01:58:47 PMGlad to see the issue was resolved and is at least promoting some discussion about the management of the forums.
o.o
Wrydryn I thought you were dead
Hello person I don't know!
Hello everyone! As far as I know I'm still alive and healthy.
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 09, 2016, 09:52:18 AMafter making an alt called GiIvaSunner and uploading joke arrangements.
I was hit with a ban for an alternate account, which is fine, I broke the rules and that's on me.
So what's exactly the problem? As far as I can tell, the ban was justified considering how the arrangement section isn't really the place for joke accounts or dumb memes. Plus you don't seem to be bothered by the fact that you were banned for making said alt, instead more upset that the mods didn't find your joke funny. Considering how the main arrangements are usually meant to show passion from aspiring musicians and how you broke a rule trying to get to make a joke, I don't see anything remotely wrong with what happened. Besides, as your post clearly proves its not like it was a permaban, so what's the main issue here?
The fact that I was warned for plagiarism.
I mean, plagiarism is wrong, is it not?
he doesn't think it should count as plagiarizing
Because it was parody, not plagiarism.
If he's going to create parody arrangements, he needs to make his own from scratch. Not use other people's as a base without permission. I'm not going to budge from that stance.
So from what I know, given that it was uploaded through the Panel and not just a post in the Submission part of the forum or just even a post in off-topic that's formatted for the Submission I think a ban was justified. It does end up making more work however short when something like this is done. Even if it's a parody and still technically plagiarism you still need to know your audience and this is the result of that. I hope going forward we can continue to have a solid stance on alts and re-uploading others work so nobody feels slighted on expectations of rules.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on September 11, 2016, 03:22:01 PMI didn't authorize that
Don't worry, I'm still dead inside.
Kidding
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 11, 2016, 03:47:21 PMThe fact that I was warned for plagiarism.
...because you plagiarized.
Nah I made a joke.
Quote from: shadowkirby on September 11, 2016, 08:12:20 PMNah I made a joke.
With plagiarism as its base. Satire doesn't excuse you from criticism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody
You can criticize me all you want, but that doesn't mean you're right.
False equivalence. All Fair Use as applied to parody/satire means is that you can't be sued; it doesn't mean NSM is obligated to host your arrangement.
In addition, Fair Use implies that you gave credit to the original source, which you didn't.
If you would have posted them in your arrangement thread, no one would have cared.
It was the submissions that made it a big deal.
Again, people take submissions too lightly. They're for when your sheet is finished, not when you're tired of working on it.
(that last sentence doesn't apply to SK)
Except I think you're all completely missing the point that it was a joke
Quote from: SlowPokemon on January 29, 2014, 09:55:18 PMFor something to be a joke, it has to be funny
Sorry Slow, gonna draw your quote from almost 2 years ago into this.
That rule isn't actually a thing, of course, but consider the reception of it to see if it being a "joke" warrants you not being cited for plagiarism.
So are you saying you thought those arrangements were serious in nature?
If you're going to post something through the NSM panel to be in the submissions board (which ideally ends up on site), then yes, I expect it to be serious.
Tbh if you couldn't tell it was a joke then you've got bigger problems
Yes, because your jokes (and by extension, you as a person) are always so clear, succinct, and well thought out. ???