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Messages - Libera

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If the game never releases, the demo still has.

I don't think we should have sheets on site for games that only ever got demos.

- In the unlikely event that the music does change before the official release, we can tag "Demo Version" or something to the title.

That is an almost guaranteed way to ensure that we always have the 'Demo Version' and not the proper version.  I think it's a bad idea.

What is the harm in waiting?  I'm failing to see it.  Two months is nothing for the site in the grand scheme of things.  Why not just wait to avoid all these potential issues?

Personally I think we should stick to only putting sheets up for properly released games (i.e. excluding demos and promotional material).  Two main reasons:

-Information about the game might change, even extending to the game not releasing in the same format or even at all.
-More importantly, the music might change.

Editing these after the fact is a pain that is entirely avoidable by just waiting until the game releases properly.

I know this has been done in the past, but this was before my time on the staff, and I don't really think precedent is a good argument in this case.

Awesome stuff.  Great sheet in the end I think.

Also that same part plays the same F on beat 1 as well there.

^Bar 50.

As for m67-end, I somehow missed your comment. I can hear a voice hitting that 4th beat 95% of the time in m67-74 and it sounded like it was just being drowned out in the others as there was no consistency. It sounds like a piano strike )or whatever is a counter melody to layer one in the 2nd half of the page)( in the background and adds some texture to it. I, however, don't hear it in m75-end so I removed it there.

I think what you're hearing is one note out of the line I was trying to get you to write in for this section.  (It plays a D on beat 4 of bars 68 and 70 so this is what I assume is happening).  I can't hear anything else there (maybe some repeated Es very occasionally but none of these C#s/Ds etc.)

The positioning of the dynamics could be a little neater.  Just try and centre them under their respective notes so that they're not too close to the barlines or notes.

You never said anything about 35-36.  Did you want to put this at a lower dynamic to emphasise that it's not the melody but an accompaniment?  Also, are bars 23-38 really all the same dynamic?

The D.C. should be higher up above the notes in that bar.

I still think the A in the chord in 69-70 should be a G.

Hearing very different chords in 75-82.
75-76 Em7sus4.
77-78 Em7
79-80 A  (This one is already right but maybe you could put a C# on beat 1 of 79.)
81-82 Am7 -> Am add#6.

Thank you for making edits so quickly.  I think it looks a lot better, particularly bars 17-24.

This was completely intentional, lat addressed it too.

Not sure I really understand the rationale behind changing this note(s).  If it was somewhat hidden under other stuff I could maybe understand, but these changes stick out a lot to me since they're completely exposed (being the only thing happening on beat 3 in most of these bars).

So I messed with this a bit and it doesn't sound weird to me. This is because the A is far quieter than the D pickup for m29 and that D->A motion has always been far more memorable to me than the that of the strings in m28. I would like to keep it as is, but understand what you're getting at here. I extended the slur from 29 to the pickup to more clearly indicate what it's doing.

Hmm I still think it's not a good idea to throw away the end of that phrase but I guess it's at least more honest in its representation.

Revisited 39-42 heavily. I distinctly hear the strings playing the Eb and G I wrote in. I think it's quite a bit better than it was before now.

Partially my fault for writing this feedback in a confusing way.  Let me give a picture with what I was imagining:
Also I'll just mention here that I think that bar 42 should be written in 3/2 rather than 6/4 (in terms of divisions/beaming).

With respect to the new 43-50, it looks a lot better now I think.  Although the final note of bar 50 should be an F rather than an Eb.  Also that same part plays the same F on beat 1 as well there.

Bars 51-54: it looks like some things were changed but I'm still hearing some things differently.  I'd highly recommend including the G on beat 1 of bar 51, since that is the voice that progresses to the parallel thirds on beat 3.  Five notes is probably too many for that chord, but I think the G is more important doubling the Bb. 
-Still hearing Abs in bars 52-54.
-The left hand should go down to the Db rather than up to it (both times).
-Hearing additionally F->G on beats 1/2 - 3/4 in bar 54.

If you're going to write 59-61 like that, it would be a lot better in two layers.  Currently that is even harder to read than before.  I was trying to recommend more of condensing than that, which is why I suggested one layer, but if they're going to stay that separate I don't think it's a good idea.

Assuming you meant 65 here. I respectfully disagree as I can't hear a restrike at all. I would be willing to take out the D if you really want, but I do not hear any real change in sound between b1 and b2 of m65.

As I said I think you're confused about the voicing here.  The A on beat 2 is not a restrike, it is the start of the melodic line (as I indicated in my picture).  The A on beat 1 moves down to an F# on beat 3.  You could write that A in lower if you wanted to avoid the restrike of the A confusing the melody here.  My picture in the previous post still shows exactly what I'm trying to say I hope.

Re: bar 63 beat 4, yeah I thought I could hear this last night but I was probably just sleep deprived.

I strongly disagree on m67-74. I think it sounds pretty close to the original and would like to keep it as is. Yeah, it might be a bit empty, but it feels right to me and contrasts more strongly with 75-end. And using ped. to hold the chords long enough would do funky things to the bassline.

Ok.  This section still feels like its lacking any motion to me.  Probably best to get another opinion.

Beat 4 of bars 67-82 (LH)?  You didn't mention anything but nothing has changed.

Sweet, accepted.

While I was making formatting edits I edited some other various aspects since I know it's harder for you to make edits after the formatting is finished.  You can see the file here.  Things I changed:

-I edited the second layer in bars 13-20.  Sometimes there were notes missing and so I added these back in.
-I added some staccatos in the left hand of bars 13-20 to represent the shorter notes.
-I added an extra note in the left hand at the very end that was missing.
-I broke the beams in 4/8.

Other than those things it was just formatting changes that you should be able to see by looking at the file.  It now fits on one page, the margins are more even, I widened the staff separation in the last two systems to make the beams fit in more neatly and probably a few other miscellaneous spacing changes.

If this looks ok to you or I can upload these files and I'll approve.

Submission Archive / Re: [MUL] Minecraft Dungeons - "Halland" by Zeila
« on: January 17, 2021, 10:40:31 AM »
Cool, accepted!

Firstly let me say that I think this is a very tricky piece to arrange and you've made pretty good stab at it.  In general the map themes of Awakening are nightmares to arrange for piano so I hope all the criticism below doesn't make you feel bad.  I do however think this arrangement needs a bit more work in general to get it sounding/feeling right.

I'll say some general things before I get into specifics.  Overall I think this arrangement is generally quite empty compared to the original, although it's better than when I last looked at it with the additional harmony in places.  Most of my comments that aren't accuracy related are geared towards alleviating this and trying to get the arrangement to sound fuller.  I'd also like to say that I think that this arrangement could use more dynamic variance.  At the moment, the loudest dynamic is forte and the quietest mezzo piano.  I'd recommend widening this range to try and get some more nuance into the dynamics.  Some examples: 67-74 could be more starkly contrasted with 75-82, the crescendo could be bigger in 39-42 etc.

Page 1:
-I hear different notes for left hand beat 3 in nearly all of bars 1-8.  Bar 1 I hear an E, bar 2 a G etc.  Most of them are octaves and definitely not fifths.
-Bars 17-20 are very empty compared to the original.  I can see why you omitted the triplet pattern, but I'd recommend trying to include the strings here so it's not just a single line above a single note bass.  Particularly bar 20 sounds really empty, rhythmically and harmonically.

Page 2:
-There's an amazing harmony line here that mostly moves in sixths below the melody here and I think this section loses out massively by its omission.  Particularly the resolution onto A major in bar 24 is currently only hinted at by the passing C# in the left hand, but would be made completely clear by including the extra harmony here.  Again I think including this would go a long way towards making this section less empty and fuller.
-I don't think you should cut off the melody in bar 28 right on the final beat, it makes that line sound really odd.  I'd recommend instead finishing it on the correct A and then taking over with the new line at the start of 29.  You could still keep the D as harmony if you wanted, but I think you should preserve the ending of that melody.
-I think the first layer A in bar 30 beat 3 should still be an F like in bar 26.
-It'd be nice if there was a way to get across that bars 35-36's RH is not a melody part.  Perhaps a dynamic or something like that?
-In contrast to the rest of the arrangement, bars 39-42 feel way too heavy.  This is section is pretty quiet in comparison the other stuff and yet it's by far the thickest texture in the entire arrangement.  Generally I'd really recommend making this section lighter if you can, but I'll post some specifics in the next few comments.
-I don't hear anything below the top G F Eb in bars 39-40 in the original.
-I'd highly recommend removing the octaves in the melody in bars 39-41.
-I don't hear the parallel thirds in bar 40 at all.
-There's a Bb in bar 40 that moves up to a C on beat 4 (the Bb below middle C that is, although you could put it in the RH also.)
-I'd consider removing the A in the left hand in bar 41.  The A is not that low in the original and you have it in the RH anyway for harmony purposes.  I think it sounds too muddy with the lower power chord there.
-The lower F in the RH of bar 42 beat 1 should be a G.
-Missing an Eb in the RH of the second chord of bar 42.
-I don't hear a low F in the first chord of bar 42.  I'd just write that bar's left hand as octaves or single notes (the lower ones obviously).

Page 3:
-I don't hear these Ds in the left hand of bars 43-37.  It sounds pretty much the same as 55/59 where you wrote Cm.
-Not super sure about bar 45/49 but the loudest note I can hear on these backbeats is a C, which is omitted.  The third of the chord is pretty important to include I think.
-You include the countermelody in bars 55-62 but not in bars 43-50.  Is there a particular reason?  While you'll see my thoughts about including the countermelody in 55-62 further down, I do think the RH could do with a bit more here than just octaves.  Particularly in bar 50 where there is no movement whatsoever in the right hand.
-I'm hearing lots of different notes/harmonies to what you wrote in for bars 51-54.  Could you have another look over this for me?  Particularly there are no parallel sixths in bar 51 (parallel thirds instead), missing Abs in bars 52/54, G on beat 1 of bar 51 etc.  There are lots so I don't want to go through them all really.
-The crescendo in bar 54 should go through all the way to the end of bar 54.
-The top C should restrike on beat 3 of bar 54.
-I'm not a huge fan of the giant rolls in bars 55-57.  I think they are unnecessarily difficult to perform in a non-clunky way and only succeed at preserving the exact octaves of the countermelody which I'm not sure is that important all things considered.
-Speaking of the countermelody, including it in full I think makes this section very awkward and difficult to read.  I would really strongly consider condensing the countermelody into the main part wherever possible (which is in quite a lot of places), or removing it altogether and using it to fill in harmony for the RH.  Particularly places like bar 58 gain practically nothing from being written out in this way and it'd look far simpler if the countermelody was condensed into the melody.  If you still really want to keep it, I'd at least recommend messing around with the positioning of the noteheads manually so that they don't interfere with each other as much.
-Again the top C of bar 61 should restrike on beat 3.
-The rhythm in the right hand of bar 62 doesn't sound right.  I think it should go along with the triplets.

Page 4:
-Bar 63 has the same last note as bar 64 in the left hand.
-The lowest notes in bar 65-66 should be staccato crotchets like in bars 63-64.
-In general there's definitely some muddling of voices/confusion about what's going on in bars 65-66.  Let me give a picture.
The melody line in bars 65-66 should have an A on beat 2 of bar 64.  (The A on beat 1 actually goes down to the F# on beat 3 and isn't part of that line, so the way it's currently written is kind of confusing voice wise but that should be easy to clear up if you move the current lower layer down to the left hand.)  I'd then move the D# on beat 1 of bar 66 into the second layer and then add the F# on beat 3 of that same voice.
-Again I think it's important to resolve that sweeping violin line in bars 65-66 when you go into 67 rather than dropping it down to some other voice.
-General comment about bars 67-74: I think you should include the part that's exactly (I think) the same as the one in bars 75-82 (but quieter).  At the moment, this section doesn't really sound much to me like the original when I listen along because it's missing that interesting melodic movement that the original (while quiet) still has.  There's also no reason to have to miss out the strings you've written in with the chords since these phrases always start on beat 2.  Definitely consider this.
-Speaking of chords: bars 70-71 I wouldn't double the D, especially not at the top of the chord.  The A should be a G and there should also be an E in here still.
-Bars 71-72 there should still be an E.
-Same for bars 73-74 and there's also more movement in the strings here than written in.  However I don't think it's more important than the line previously mentioned and currently omitted.
-Again in 75-82 you could use thicker harmony from the strings (that you haven't included yet) here like in 67-82.
-I'm not really sure what's going on with beat 4 in the left hand for bars 67-82.  I don't hear this at all and it sounds more like it should be another E or just not there at all.  I'd also suggest using something lighter than three notes on beat 3 because it's not really that heavy in the original.

I am almost certainly going to need a second look at this once the edits start coming in.

Submission Archive / Re: [MUL] Minecraft Dungeons - "Halland" by Zeila
« on: January 16, 2021, 08:35:49 PM »
All the changes look good.  One final thing:

I don't think the notation used in the right hand of bars 11 and 19 is very clear.  The fact that the grace is then slurred onto the E is even more confusing I feel.  I'd either ignore the detailed rhythm or notate it normally (approximately is fine).

Ok I've just updated the accidentals.  Accepting!

There is still that F sharp on beat 3 of m16, right? Because I hear one for sure.

Yes sorry I didn't notice that was a change.  I was talking about how beat 4 should be like it was before.

Ooh yeah, got it the high F# - I hear that. I was listening to the harmony below the melody and listening to it again, whatever is playing there sounds like it outlines an A7 chord (which makes sense going to Dm in m. 29). For that reason I think writing it as an A or A7 chord in the RH sounds better on piano. I'll leave that up to you (or the next updater to comment on) though since it's not incorrect as is.

I still don't hear the E or Gn.  I think you may just be being thrown off by the chord being in first inversion with the A in the bass.  I've left this as is again since Mael didn't mention this either.

Thanks for checking, those are some nice catches. 

m12 - I hear the counter melody descending on b2, as a G# instead of the B

I see what you mean but I also still hear the B.  I think for simplicities' sake (you're right that it doesn't do it in bar 42) I'll just keep it to the B.

m30 b2.75 - I hear a E here instead of the G. I get how this might not mesh well with the chord after it though.

I agree.  I think though to avoid the double tap of the E I will just omit that final note.

m19 b2 - I hear almost the same chord from m15 here. Maybe not the C#, but def. the B so maybe the C#could just move down a step.

I agree about the B.  Not sure about the C# but I think for consistency with bar 15 it'd be better to keep it.

m36 - If you're following the guitar instead of the bass on b4, might as well include the E on b3.5 as well.

So I'm open to changing this but one of the ways I was trying to make 5-14/35-44 lighter than 15-24 was by omitting that note.  It's so thick anyway that it's a bit fiddly to try and get the fuller sound out in 15-24 and this was one of the small alterations, as well as extra notes on the left hand chords and octaves in the melody in some places.  As I said I'm open to altering so let me know what you think.

Other things should be fixed and new files are up.

Submission Archive / Re: [MUL] Minecraft Dungeons - "Halland" by Zeila
« on: January 16, 2021, 12:26:56 AM »
Overall this looks pretty good, but in the section 25-48 I'm hearing a fair number of different/missing notes and voicings.  Such is the nature of resonanty (tm) solo piano I guess.

-Missing a D below the RH F# in bar 29/37.
-Missing a D above the RH in bar 30/34/38.
-I think missing another D below the RH one in bar 32.
-I think missing a D between the B and F# in bar 33.  (Why are these all Ds haha?)
-Missing a C# above the E in the left hand and an A above the F# in the right hand of bar 35.  Also I think the C# in the right hand might not be there and it's just the lower one.
-Missing a G between the two Ds in bar 40.
-I think missing a D above the left hand one in bar 41.
-I think the F# in bar 42 on beat 1 is actually an octave lower (i.e. in the left hand).
-I think missing a D above the left hand D in bar 45.
-Missing an E above the left hand C# in bar 46 and I think the C# in the right hand isn't there.
-I think missing a G above the C# in the left hand of bar 47.
-The D on top of beat 3 in bar 47 should be an octave lower.

Other things:

-Instead of using accents, I think it would be a better idea to notate the low piano notes in bars 17-24 as separate layer.  I think that would get across the idea more clearly and is visually more striking than accents.
-With that in mind I would also recommend moving the semibreve Gs in the left hand of bars 14 and 22 into the right hand.  That's how someone would probably play it also.

-m16 - I don't hear the octave harmony you have here, just the top 2 notes

I agree with this.  The other thing you mentioned I also commented on somewhere in the big chunk above.


I hear this as it was written before.

-I only hear the E struck in RH m29, not the full chord.

I hear the F# and C# as well here, not just the E.

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