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The Lost Woods one is awesome!

[Oh no! I need to copy my sheet into another sheet, but I don't know how!]

Oh no! I need to copy my sheet into another sheet, but I don't know how!

Some other tips for this section: Ctrl+A is select all. When you do that, it automatically selects all of your staves, allowing you to easily copy and paste. You can also select "Select All" under Edit.

You also have the option of selecting the entirety of a single staff. Just left-click to the left of the staff before the cleft sign, or on the cleft sign. You can also hold shift and select the left side of the other staff (in a piano arrangement) as another method of selecting the entire sheet, minus miscellaneous text.

Oh wait! My measures are too small and all the notes are squished together!

If I'm thinking of the right thing, another solution for this issue is using a dotted whole note. Put that anywhere in the measure in question and it should automatically spread it out. This will work on almost any arrangement, depending on the Time Signature. If it's 6/4 or something like that, you might have an issue. If it's 4/4 or 3/4, then you won't actually be able to put the note in the measure (which is good). You'll get an error ding but the measure will fix itself.

Thanks for the advice. I'll get to this probably over the summer.

I'm not arranging right now. I'll get back to this probably over the summer.

[...OLIMAR]

Just for an example, I'm going to go over why I thought that BDS was more likely the wolf over Olimar. Just so you can see my train of thought that game.

1) The first thing that I noticed was actually in Discord. There wasn't much in Discord this game, but I did find this little gem. This was just after Olimar waited an extra day and passed a fascist policy by non-action.

BlackDragonSlayer11/20/2018
Wait, what's going on?

mikey11/20/2018
You've got a seering and we're debating who to target

BlackDragonSlayer11/20/2018
...
OLIMAR
I'll explain in the topic

To me, this felt fake. It didn't seem surprised. It seemed angry, which I don't feel would have been the correct emotion to display. It's difficult to compare since we didn't have another example of debate between two players. And I may be wrong here. Maybe that's exactly how BDS would have reacted if Olimar had switched the policies. In which case, I'd have given BDS doubt when there shouldn't have been. That happens, and that's fine. Seriously, how many times has mikey been lynched because of how he said a thing?

2) BDS's nondisclosure of his seering. I still don't understand this, tbh. I couldn't see what a liberal would benefit from hiding his seer target's faction. I eventually came to the conclusion that he had to have seered you liberal and just went with it. After that phase, he did indeed declare you as liberal. This was the correct play for fascist BDS, imo, since he was already butting heads with Olimar. It would have been too good to be true for him to immediately find both fascist partners, or potentially Hitler.
Side note: Your "I have nothing to hide" comment was genuine, but raised some flags. That's what mainly made me decide to ask davy if Hitler and the fascists could be in contact, which basically sealed the deal for me that you were Hitler. You didn't do anything wrong there. But in the terms of standard Secret Hitler, it was concerning. But I wouldn't expect you to know that.

3) BDS figuring out Hitler's meta. I'm referring to this comment specifically. There is no meta for Hitler in NSM. If Hitler is laying low like BDS said, then either he or I told Hitler to do so. Maybe it's obvious to him and me, but this is a completely new game for most players. To be fair as well, I made similar comments. If our roles were reversed, I would understand if BDS made a similar accusation against me for the same reason.

4) Olimar passing two fascist policies. This is a bit backwards in logic, since a fascist policy should have been a note of accusation against Olimar. But in this case, I wasn't sure if Olimar would have passed a fascist policy when given 1 liberal policy and 1 fascist policy, as fascist. I knew that BDS would, since that's a common fascist tactic. I once played a game as fascist where we didn't do that and decided to play it safe. We lost 5 liberal policies to 0 because the liberals just happened to pick all liberals for the last policy, and we had terrible luck with the draws. When I made this comment, I had already made the decision that BDS was the fascist. If I remember correctly though, I do think that this comment just before was genuine. It would have been very easy for BDS to discard that liberal card. Which, by the way, both brainy and BDS did, so there were 0 liberal cards remaining for Olimar to pick.

I'm absolutely not trying to bash on BDS. BDS played an amazing game that won the fascists the game. But I just want you, n1 (and others) to see what my train of thought was for the game. This is what I'm talking about, at least, when I say come up with your own theories and thoughts. I never actually made an accusation against BDS because this wasn't that type of game. If this were standard TWG, I would have a made a text wall similar to this one and made my case against BDS in-game. But again, nobody's asking you to do that. That's just my style. And again, I may be wrong on some or all of these parts. That's the fun of the game; you never really know if what you're thinking makes sense.

Good moves are relative. I probably had the most clear idea of what was happening in the game among the liberals and I single-handedly lost the game for us. Like I said, I had already made the decision to vigi you by that time. Mainly as a result of you being quiet and not really formulating any new ideas up until that point. But that's a quirk especially found in this game when we're looking for Hitler, who is normally trying to blend in as a liberal and not make themselves noticed. Your actions were all correct, but that's what makes finding Hitler so difficult; if Hitler is playing well, then he's going to look like a liberal. That's why BDS's camouflage worked so well this game. He did the OPPOSITE of what a standard Hitler would do.

Shy & n1p2- thanks for playing, but what I would really love to see from you guys in the future is to throw yourselves out there a bit more.  It's okay to be wrong and to arrive at the wrong conclusions.  Showing that you're working towards making those conclusions will at least help everyone town read you more/not be suspicious of you simply for quiet.

This is absolutely true, for this game and standard TWG. It's really not enough to idly watch others play. Even if you're wrong (which let's be honest, we'll accuse the wrong person of being a wolf 9/10 times), it still at least shows that you're trying to find a wolf.

I spend far too much time on this game. Like, an almost unhealthy amount. But that's why I limit myself to every other game or so. It takes up too much of my time. That's why I can write up these analyses that take paragraphs to write. Nobody's asking you to do that. That's just how I prefer to write out my thoughts. I'm also really bad at finding wolves. I got 1 right (BDS), 1 wrong (mikey) and hard suspicion on the third (brainy). The only roles I actually got right were BDS and Olimar that whole game. So I'm by no means an expert.  If I'm not a wolf, I'm actually really bad at this game.
But dang I make a good wolf.

Nobody's asking for perfection. We just need to hear thoughts every once and a while.

I got home from work so I can post some more of my thoughts. The liberals didn't stand a chance. I kind of knew that from phase 1 with Shy's 3 liberal policies, but I thought that we could make it work. But then I learned that Hitler and the fascists could be in contact. That's game-breaking, imo. BDS was absolutely the correct chancellor choice for me in standard Secret Hitler, imo. Hitler butting heads with a player that might be a fascist, making them both targets? No Hitler would do that. He didn't "reverse psychology" me. There was literally no better choice since everybody was so inactive. The next best choice would have been mikey, who was null at that time and who just also happened to be fascist, although I had no idea at the time. I thought he was liberal at the end by poe. n1, brainy, and shy were all too inactive for me to trust with chancellorship if BDS was calling the shots.

n1 was the perfect Hitler for 3 reasons. First, the exchange between n1 and bds for the seering was weird. One of the reasons that I trusted mikey was that he called that out. Second, n1 was quiet and didn't really add to the game. I could say the same for shy and brainy. But n1 picked a liberal policy, and that was a huge tell to me. If BDS and n1 were just getting in contact (like I had then assumed), that would mean that BDS was giving n1 instructions, since n1 could now trust BDS. That's normal Hitler behavior. Third, n1 was asking why I didn't pick them for chancellor during the final phase. That was already after I had formulated my plan to vigi them, and I considered that the final tell that I needed for them to be Hitler. It all just made perfect sense to me.

Even with the knowledge that Hitler and Fascists could be in contact, there was no telling when or even if they had made contact. So there was no telling that Hitler would be playing by a new meta. BDS pushed the idea and then did the exact opposite and put a massive target on his and Olimar's head. This was absolutely the correct play, imo. Kudos. But if you take that logic, then there is no correct chancellor choice. It's literally a roulette, rather than a calculated decision. It's the one defense that liberals have is that they can find the quiet person hiding in the corner. There was no way that the liberals could have won that game.

I still had fun, though.

For those that care, this is the message I sent to Olimar. I quoted this and sent my plan to mikey not realizing that the game had ended.

Spoiler

Regardless of what I said in the topic, I'm not 100% on BDS being liberal. It would have been very easy for him to throw away a liberal policy and give you two fascist policies. If you make me president, I'll nominate BDS (or mikey, I'm comfortable either way) as chancellor. If we get a fascist policy, I shoot n1. Him being Hitler makes way too much sense for me. There would be no reason for Hitler to be laying low unless somebody told him to. BDS and I are the only 2 players that have played the game before. I still strongly believe that n1 is Hitler.

[close]

Dang. I thought it was n1. I just finished pm'ing mikey about my plan. xD I knew that BDS was fascist but thought that n1 was Hitler. I chose BDS because I didn't think that he, as Hitler, would put that target on himself. I was going to shoot n1 even if I got a liberal policy. I was certain hitler was either n1, brainy, or shy with bds giving them advice. I just wanted the fascist vote.

Gg
I'm curious. Did the fascists ever make contact with bds? If so, when?

[yes]

Hmm, by the sounds of things, you wouldn't imagine me to be least likely to be Hitler? or am I too quiet?
Everyone seems to be skipping over double-guessing me *shrug*
BDS might work... want to hear others' opinions..

Let's assume that BDS IS Hitler. If BDS is Hitler and Olimar is liberal, BDS put way too much focus on himself, putting himself at 50/50 odds of being fascist with Olimar. Like BDS said, Hitler wants to lay low. BDS framing Olimar to get a fascist policy out wouldn't be worth it if somebody wanted to shoot one of them. If Olimar was fascist and BDS Hitler, then Olimar put pressure on Hitler for no reason. In either case, BDS being Hitler doesn't make much sense. So yes, BDS seems like the least likely player to be Hitler, imo.

Lol how to be a wolf 101: give power to other wolves.

I've already explained my reasoning as to why I think that BDS is liberal. But sure, we're just two fascists working together. Cool.

yes

[BDS]

Sweet, it worked!

I'm going to nominate BDS as chancellor. Of everyone here, he's the least likely to be Hitler, imo.

I'm wondering if Noc and Olimar are acting as obvious fascists to try and distract everybody else from Hitler, who in this case, would be laying low. If that's what's going on, then their plan would be working.

Not really, at least for me. Hitler's been my main focus. My reasoning before was that if you were fascist, you would be able to give Hitler advice. In normal Secret Hitler, Hitler would try to lay low. But this isn't the same form of game, so that's not essentially true. The meta here is different, because there is no meta.

That being said, I do agree. If what you're saying about Olimar and mikey being the fascist pair is true, that narrows down the options of who Hitler is greatly. I'm not 100% on mikey being a fascist because there's no hard evidence against him, but it makes sense with the meta. If Olimar and mikey are the fascist pair, then Hitler is possibly somebody laying low. That leaves (in my mind) shy, n1, and brainy as possible players who are Hitler. According to BDS, n1 is liberal, so we can rule them out. Brainy has only ever received fascist policies, and Shy has only ever gotten liberal policies. So neither of them have been tested, and it's too late to do so now.

I think right now our best bet is to not make Shy, Brainy, or Olimar chancellor. I feel like no matter what else, we won't lose the game from nominating Hitler as chancellor by avoiding these 3.

In the mean time, Olimar needs to select the next president.

This game is really long, but I'm enjoying it. I have no preference whether we continue playing or not.

If BDS was telling the truth, then there was 1 more liberal card in the deck. If Olimar was telling the truth, then there were 2 remaining liberal cards. Assuming that everybody else was telling the truth, anyway.

For Olimar to have received 3 fascist policies AND been telling the truth earlier, both of those liberal cards would have had to have been in the bottom 2 cards. Not impossible, but highly unlikely to miss both liberal cards during that phase.

I'm of the opinion that Olimar is fascist. BDS is liberal, as is n1.

Yeah. If I, BDS, Brainy, and Shy are all telling the truth, there is exactly 1 liberal card left in the deck.

Next mission there will be 2 cards in the deck, so davy's going to reshuffle the deck before the next legislation phase begins.
davy, for those two cards: are they going to be placed on top of the reshuffled deck, or will those two cards be incorporated somewhere randomly into the deck?

[yes]

Then what's the point of hiding the fascists' identity from Hitler in the first place if they can just contact them normally?

I raised a similar point before the game was created:

If the Fascists know who Hitler is, then they can just pm him and that's an immediate alliance. That doesn't work as well irl, but with private messaging, it's an issue. Maybe give them 2 possible Hitlers, and one of them is the real one?

So apparently davy didn't think that was a big deal, or just missed this comment. In any case, it doesn't matter anymore. We can safely assume that all 3 fascists are working together.

If we just keep the elections between you, me, and n1p2, would there be any downsides to that?  It's not like resistance where we have to get the wolf team exactly right.

I'm not sure if that's even possible even if I wanted to. I barely trust n1. I have absolutely no reason to trust you.

Also, yes.

Why would you vote yes for somebody that you know is fascist?

tl;dr (again) We started with 6 liberal policies. We most likely have 1 or 2 remaining.