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Author Topic: Libera's Arrangements (Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War: Chapter 1)  (Read 2212 times)

Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2018, 11:09:32 PM »

It has now been exactly one month since I started this thread (and I'll count starting this thread as 'joining the site').  I've had a lot of fun the past month arranging and learning new things and I've been really taken aback by how nice people are around here.  I hope that this month is the first in a long series of many months to come and that I'll keep getting better as I go.  To celebrate one month of me not being completely terrible, I now present to you my longest arrangement so far, from Fire Emblem Fates:

End of All: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]


(I went off of the Revelations version.)

This arrangement is by no means perfect at the moment and there's a few things that need some work, but I feel like it's in a good enough state to upload now and also I'd like to have it out for today in particular.

Thanks everyone, and I'm looking forward to seeing where I am in another month's time!
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 08:52:57 AM by Libera »
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Latios212

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2018, 09:23:57 PM »

This is, wow, really impressive! Both in terms of having the patience to see this whole thing through, and getting it to sound and look good. Especially after just a month of arranging.

Like I did with Id (Purpose), I’m taking a close look at this and will leave comments regarding the arrangement and presentation (without checking any notes yet). Get ready! :)

General comments
- If you’re basing it off the Revelations version, I’d suggest using the official title “End of All (Below)”.
- I’d recommend rehearsal markings (measure number in the box) and double barlines at the beginning of each major section here since the composition is so long and varied (places like m. 78-79 would be nice to denote, for example). The sections correlate to the sections I’ve split it into below, though I may have split it into a few more sections than necessary.
- The layout and measure/system distribution look terrific! Nice job keeping everything looking well balanced on the page.
- There needs to be more clarity in regards to the tempo when moving between time signatures - from 4/4 to 6/8 to 12/16 to 6/4. You have a (quarter = dotted eighth) marking at m. 55, but the other time signature transitions where the beat unit is changing should also have similar clarifying markings.

Measures 1-3
- Would recommend dyads in each hand here instead of all on the top staff; playing those chords is awkward for one hand to do.
- You can include lyrics here if you want, I’d go for it :P

Measures 4-15
- You can remove the courtesy accidentals at the beginning of m. 4 since it comes right after the key change - the sharps should be immediately obvious.
- A dynamic at m. 8 for the repeat (and possibly m. 4 as well for the section change) would do nicely.
- Watch your 16th rest heights in m. 12-13 and keep them consistent with m. 8-9.
- Flip a couple of the inner ties in m. 14-15.

Measure 16-23
- It feels a bit empty here as the repetitive part suddenly just disappears. Taken on its own though, it sounds just fine, so I’d say the way you arranged it is good.
- Move the eighth rests back onto the staff here. Also try combining the layers in m. 19 - the large rests there aren’t particularly helpful.

Measure 24-31
- Wow, this works a lot better on piano than I originally thought. I was hesitant at first about the repeated 32nd notes, but in practice it’s actually not that hard to repeatedly press those keys in a way that sounds like the original. I’d take the top notes with the right hand when possible as the notes are fast and some of these intervals are large, but that’s not something you have to notate - it’s fine as is.
- I’m a bit skeptical about the way the rhythm is written out since it seems pretty hard to decipher if you don’t already know what the original sounds like. However, the 32nd notes are appropriate for the tempo here which isn’t changed from other sections, so it works. You can clarify it a bit better in some places though - for example in m. 27 and 31 beat 2 is oddly written as 16th-8th rest-16th rest making it difficult to pinpoint where the middle of the measure (beat 3) is.  Use 16th-16th rest-8th rest instead.
- Watch the accent in m. 31. You could also just cut short the whole note and combine the RH layers here.

Measures 32-45
- I’m personally getting more of a 12/16 vibe here, at least for m. 32-37; the melody and arpeggios suggest that to me. Though the following part does feel better in 6/8 (at least the melody), so I’m not sure at the moment…
- Pedalling every half measure from m. 32-37 would be preferable to each whole measure due to the chord changes.
- I think we can try to spice m. 38-44 up a bit - I don’t feel like the upper right hand layer is particularly interesting there. But it is hard to find something to fill up the space there with…

Measures 46-54
- This is a pretty fast tempo to be playing parallel octaves, I’d definitely suggest cutting the lower octave notes for the 32nd notes.
- Accidentals don’t look quite right here - haven’t looked too closely but I think m. 49 should be spelled using naturals and flats instead of sharps. GIve m . 53-54 another look as well.

Measures 55-62
- Move the tempo marking up and away from the note a little bit.
- You have some eighths tied to sixteenths here that you can just write as dotted eighths like at the beginning of m. 55. You could also use a dotted half for the lower layer in m. 58. Conversely, the dotted quarter at the end of m. 58 would be better written as an eighth tied to a quarter.
- Nice left hand pattern you have here and in the next section. Simple but captures the movement of the rhythm in the original.

Measures 63-70
- You could also put the lyrics in here in addition to the “cantabile” marking. In any case, it’s not clear right now where the singing ends and instrumental part begins between m. 70-71.
- Extend the 8vb over from the previous section instead of making a new one.

Measures 71-78
- This is a comment for the rest of the song; see where you can combine layers in the right hand. It’s good to show the separate motions when they use different rhythms, but it’s fine to just combine them into dyads in places like the second half of m. 72.
- Consider spacing out the staves a bit more at the system with m. 76. The notes get a bit close to each other in the middle. Move the 8vb closer to the lower staff here too; it’s a bit too close to the next system.

Measures 79-87
- Darn, no piano riff in this section? :P Nah, it’s probably best to keep it simple here as you have it.
- Same layer comment about m. 80-81.
- Second dotted half note in m. 86 is missing a dot.
- I think for m. 87 it would be important to try to imitate exactly what the low notes in the original do, as opposed to using the same left hand pattern you have for other places. Is this your transcription of that exact part or was it based on the general rhythm of the preceding/following part?

Measures 88-97
- Consider switching the right hand to bass clef sometimes. There’s a lot of ledger lines here.
- Move the rit. closer to the staff in m. 97.

Measures 98-105
- In measures 98-100, split the second quarter rest into two eighths.

Whew… that’s all for now! Feel free to ask for clarification or help on any of the above :P
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Brassman388

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2018, 10:53:14 PM »

I'll wait till you update the sheet since Latios probably got most of it during his look though.

Also, your mus file leads to a midi.

Great work, man.
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Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2018, 11:48:36 PM »

The files have been updated.  There was a lot of things on that list, so I'll just go through what hasn't been changed as everything else should have been (it is a long list though so it's possible I've missed something). 

First things first, I've kept the title as End of All and have added lyrics for all three versions.  I believe in terms of the actual music the three versions only differ in one place (bar 62 beat 4) and so I think it's worth doing all three at once.  (Maybe I should add a performance note?)

Edit: Bars 1-15: I didn't add dynamics to bar 4 and bar 8 as I'm not sure there's really a dynamic change at bar 4 and the dynamic has already changed back to mp by the repeat so it feels unnecessary to me.  I'm happy to change it though if people disagree with me.

Bars 16-23:  It does feel a little odd losing the semiquavers here but I'm not sure what else to do.  If anyone has any ideas I'd be glad to hear them.

Bars 24-31: I agree that the rhythm is a little tricky to decipher, but I think that's mostly because it's a really tricky rhythm so I'm not sure we can do anything about that.  (I did make the change you suggested though).

Bars 32-45:  I've kept this in 6/8 as that's how I heard it originally and as you say the chord changes every dotted crotchet which suggests 6/8 to me but if other people disagree I'm happy to change it to 12/16.
As I said to you on discord, I think that bars 38-44 are easily the weakest part of the arrangement but I'm struggling to come up with anything else.  I'd greatly appreciate any help anyone can offer on this section.

If I'm not mistaken everything else has been changed.  Thanks for taking the time to go through this thoroughly; I know it's not an easy one to check. 

Thanks Brassman for pointing out that link problem; I've fixed it now.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 11:52:08 PM by Libera »
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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2018, 02:52:56 AM »

Your mus file still leads to a midi.

Edit: Wait wait wait, I got it. I went to the first post like an egg. I got the mus.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 02:54:36 AM by Brassman388 »
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Brassman388

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2018, 07:59:24 AM »

Okay, first things first.


Lets talk about meter. Now, meter and time signature are nearly the same thing. Some will tell that they are the same exact thing, but they are not. Meter is the physical "feel" of a given moment; time signature "reflects" that. So for instance, starting from measure 4 to throughout the piece. The time signature says 4/4 but what I feel is that the eighth note has the beat. That, your physical representation, while not wrong by any means, of that "feel" is a tad to elongated. My solution was to cut each measure in half turning it to 2/4 up until the 12/16 time change.

Note-wise nothing was too serious except at m. 24 where there's that heavy metal guitar thing written in the bass. The rhythms weren't entirely incorrect, but there was a variation towards the latter half of the phrase. If this was copied from a midi, just be careful because they're not always correct seen in this version. BUT, if this was your work from transcribing from a youtube vid like I did for nearly 2 hours before realizing you could slow it down, then don't give in so easily, listen to the whole thing and make sure your rhythms are correct. A tough spot regardless.


M. 16 has the same level of difficulty as well. The offset of the trumpet figure is by triplet quarter notes as you'll see when you look at the sheet music I provide.


M. 32, while I'm all for 6/8, I'm still feeling this with the eighth note being the center of the beat. So I changed it to 3/4, and it flowed much better for my eyes and ears.


M. 46, This was an interesting seeing as this is the first appearance of a metric modulation. Not a bad attempt, but ineffective. I changed the quarter note equals quarter note to eighth note equals quarter note, then doubled all the note durations in this section in a 3/4 feel. I'm sure there's a way you can balance a 6/8 to 3/4 feel in this section since it's questionable which one it is, but visually it looks a lot better as 3/4 for now. I also got rid of the mid key change since it doesn't stay there for very long before going to C.


M. 55, another metric modulation,. but this one is completely incorrect. So here's the deal, the metronome marking you have it at is quarter note equals 126. That doesn't work as a eighth note-and-half value for quarter note equals 96. Lets do the math. If we set our base value at quarter note (96)x1=96, if we wanted eighth notes it would look like this (96)x2=192. Sixteenth Notes (96)x4=384. How about a triplet eighth? That would look like this (96)x3=288. Notice it's faster than than a regular eighth note, but slower than a sixteenth note, right where it's supposed to be. Thus, if we take half of the quarter eighth and multiply it by our bass we get (96)x1.5=144. So the two closes values we have for our triplet quarter note or eighth notes are 288, or 144. Nowhere near the 126 you designated. The thing about metric modulations is that it has to go off of the metronome marking previous to what it was before. Kinda confusing, but once you work it out, you'll get the hang of it.


M. 63, I'm not sure what the protocol is on lyrics in a piano sheet, but I think it looks a little clunky and we're not writing hymns. I dunno, Latio's call.


M. 79 to 97, so this whole section has some voicing issues. I'm not really big on the whole octaves thing in the melody, especially if it constantly crosses into the what the left hand is doing and not helping the left hand at all. Getting rid of the octaves and opting for some meaningful harmonies works just as good, if not better, than octaves.


Lastly, what's the deal with the A4 page size? I mean, I use that for parts for some stuff, but not all the time and especially not for piano music. You want people to reflect on how good your sheet looks in the end, and not have that moment ruined by shitty printers and their lack of an A4 setting. Just something to consider.


Revision 1: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xzf1nt62yi9vanz/End%20of%20All%20edit1.pdf?dl=0


Note: All the measure numbers reflect YOUR version of this song. Notice that I gave you the PDF and not the mus. That's because I spent nearly 4 hours on this damned thing and I want you to make the revisions that you seem fit. In the end it's your piece and you can do whatever you want.


Hope this helps.
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Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2018, 09:09:13 PM »

Ok I've been through your post and have updated the files. 

Things I have changed:
- From bar 55 until the change back to 4/4 I have changed to 3/4 from 6/4.  (God this was a pain to do, there must be some easier way to this in finale since the way I did it messed literally everything up and I had to fix it all afterwards.)
- I only found one rhythm wrong in 24-31 and I fixed it.  Also I'm deeply hurt that you would suggest I used midi.  (Not really I know quite a few new people do so it's a reasonable guess as I'm still new here.) 
- I fixed the rhythms in 16-23.  (I had a sneaking suspicion these weren't quite right.)
- I fixed the metric modulation in bar 55.  This was completely wrong as you said but I'd just got the notes the wrong way round.  Either way I'm pretty sure it's correct now.
Everything Else:
- I've kept all of the other time signatures the same.  I personally feel the bars 4-31 as 4/4 and I very strongly feel bars 32-55 in compound time.
- I've kept the key change in bar 50 for the time being.  I'm not really opposed to removing it but I just realised I hadn't removed while I was writing this post up and I'm too tired to do it now.
- With regards to the lyrics, I added them in at Latios' suggestion so I'll keep them in for now.
- Could you clarify what you mean about bars 79-97 (now bars 103-140)?  I transcribed the melody and the string part underneath so most of the time they're not moving in octaves.  Also it doesn't cross over with the left hand since the left hand is an octave below written.
- With regards to the page size, A4 is standard paper size pretty much everywhere except America.

Thanks for the feedback and also for pointing out that the link in the OP was wrong (I've fixed that as well now).

Brassman388

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2018, 12:25:10 AM »

I still don't agree with the quarter not equals quarter note in m. 32. Nor do I agree with the 4/4 sections because it's hard to follow. This is because I don't rely on the program's carat to guide me through the sheet. I use the pdf file and audio file to see if there are any troublesome areas.

If you feel the need to get offended for being accused of using midi there has to be some truth to it? It has nothing to do with your ability arranging or transcribing, but how you decided to solve a problem. Sure, it's never a real taboo to use a midi, but using them either all the time or one-ditch solution to producing isn't meaningful to both yourself or the performer. Just some food for though.

Also get rid of the extra durations in that section, that's not how it's performed in the recording, and is the reason I had my version very detached.

Lastly, the section at m. 46, I see why you have it as 12/16 and how it functions for the next metric modulation, but it still looks and feels off to me. There has to be another solution.

I'm not a big fan of key changes in such quick sections like from m. 50 to m. 54.

In measure 55, in the bass part, you can either combine the first beat of the ostinato with the 16th creating a dotted eighth, or you can leave it out as a rest, but what you cannot do is leave it as a tied 8th to 16th. Same thing from m. 71 to 102.

Same idea from m. 113 to 136 with a half note tied to a quarter. Those should be dotted half notes.

Page sizes don't really matter unless latios wants to streamline everything as he should.

Have you ever studied counterpoint? Even if it was just a little bit? Well, what it is for those of you at home is how voices act in a horizontal fashion. Where harmony is created using 6ths and 3rds most of the time to create consonant and dissonant effects. So when you have consistent 5ths, octaves, 4ths, 9ths, 10ths, and 11ths, these tend to get a little boring, and becomes increasingly difficult for the performer.

But I see what I did, I didn't see the octaves there. That should tell you something, like to get rid of them and write it in it's sounded register. If you choose not to do that, then fix the placement on those 8va's to make them more noticeable.


I think that's it for now.
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Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2018, 08:33:45 PM »

I've updated the files again.  I've tried using quotes this time in my response to make it easier to see exactly what I'm talking about so I hope that's helpful.

Quote
I still don't agree with the quarter not equals quarter note in m. 32.
I know you disagree with the 6/8 time signature, but is there something actually incorrect about crotchet = crotchet here?  I thought it was just a courtesy saying that there isn't a metric modulation but maybe I'm missing something.

Quote
If you feel the need to get offended for being accused of using midi there has to be some truth to it?
I was just jokingly being over the top (I even said not really afterwards).   Either way, I don't use midi.

Quote
Also get rid of the extra durations in that section, that's not how it's performed in the recording, and is the reason I had my version very detached.
Good catch, I've fixed this now.

Quote
Lastly, the section at m. 46, I see why you have it as 12/16 and how it functions for the next metric modulation, but it still looks and feels off to me. There has to be another solution.
I'm open to hearing any, but I don't think it looks particularly problematic.

Quote
I'm not a big fan of key changes in such quick sections like from m. 50 to m. 54.
Yeah as I said I was just too tired to do this last night, I've changed it now.

Quote
In measure 55, in the bass part, you can either combine the first beat of the ostinato with the 16th creating a dotted eighth, or you can leave it out as a rest, but what you cannot do is leave it as a tied 8th to 16th. Same thing from m. 71 to 102.
Quote
Same idea from m. 113 to 136 with a half note tied to a quarter. Those should be dotted half notes.
I missed these because I was doing this late last night but these were all caused by the 6/4 to 3/4 change.  I've reverted them back to how they were, thanks for spotting them.

Quote
Have you ever studied counterpoint? Even if it was just a little bit? Well, what it is for those of you at home is how voices act in a horizontal fashion. Where harmony is created using 6ths and 3rds most of the time to create consonant and dissonant effects. So when you have consistent 5ths, octaves, 4ths, 9ths, 10ths, and 11ths, these tend to get a little boring, and becomes increasingly difficult for the performer.
Looking through it there seems to be a large mix of intervals between the vocal part and the string part and I can't exactly change what the composer wrote.  There are some octaves, some fifths, some sevenths, some sixths, some thirds etc.  I'm not really sure what you're getting at here.

Quote
But I see what I did, I didn't see the octaves there. That should tell you something, like to get rid of them and write it in it's sounded register. If you choose not to do that, then fix the placement on those 8va's to make them more noticeable.
I've tried to move the 8vas to make them as clear as I can.  If I got rid of them there would be loads of ledger lines in the left hand and I think it would look messy.

Thanks for the feedback again, I really appreciate it. 
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 09:08:27 PM by Libera »
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Brassman388

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2018, 08:40:59 PM »

Looking through it there seems to be a large mix of intervals between the vocal part and the string part and I can't exactly change what the composer wrote.  There are some octaves, some fifths, some sevenths, some sixths, some thirds etc.  I'm not really sure what you're getting at here. 

This is why we're call Arrangers, we can do what we want with what the composer gives us. That's why it's called arranging. You can do that without changing the melody or what the harmony does, but you don't have to strictly follow the voices lines of the brass and strings so on. You just have to keep the melody line intact.
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Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheet: FE Fates: End of All)
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2018, 10:04:58 PM »

I have more sheets! (Yay!)  All of them are from Flaming Sword.  (After going through End of All these were very refreshing.)

Campaign of Fire: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]
Everything into the Dark: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]
Lyn's Desire: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]

And some youtube links:




I'm now free for a while, so hopefully I'll be putting up a fair few sheets over the next few weeks: stay tuned! 

Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (New Sheets: Various FE Flaming Sword sheets!)
« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2018, 11:54:46 PM »

Two new sheets, both from Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War.  These two together make up the opening of the game, so they can be played together if desired.

Beginning: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]
Fire Emblem Theme: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]

(I can't really be a Fire Emblem arranger and not have arranged the main theme now can I?)



I'm not sure what I'll be doing next.  (Almost certainly Fire Emblem though.  Maybe some SoV stuff?)

« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 11:56:46 PM by Libera »
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Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (FE: Genealogy of the Holy War sheets)
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2018, 06:47:08 PM »

Turns out the answer is more Genealogy sheets.  (Deirdre's theme is really great.)

Deirdre's Theme: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]
Julia's Theme: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]



I may not be able to do much in the way of arranging over the next week or so due to moving around, but who knows with me.

Libera

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (FE: Genealogy of the Holy War sheets)
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2018, 05:45:03 PM »

So originally when I joined my aim was really towards the Shadows of Valentia soundtrack in particular, but I decided that while getting used to arranging it was probably better to focus on slightly easier material.  Having already done a fair amount of other stuff, I think it's time to start the SoV stuff properly.  I was going to wait until I had a few more to upload together, but I decided that it's probably a better idea to upload in smaller, more digestible chunks. 

Where the Wind Rustles: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]
Truth: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]
A Soothing Strain: [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]

I also have a new non-Fire Emblem arrangement which was made for the current community project for Pokemon Diamond and Pearl:

Battle! (Champion): [Musx] [Pdf] [Midi] [Mus]

Criticism regarding that sheet should be directed towards the project thread (found here).





Expect more SoV stuff in the future!

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Re: Libera's Arrangements (FE: Shadows of Valentia sheets and ... Pokemon?)
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2018, 12:33:19 AM »

Awesome to see more Echoes stuff! ;D There's been so little of that around...

Just calling out a few things I'm seeing as I browse!

Where the Wind Rustles
- Unfortunately I don't know of any listings of the soundtrack that provide specific composers per track, but I do know that some of the tracks are arrangements of Yuka Tsujiyoko's original Gaiden compositions, like this one is. This site generally seems pretty accurate with their listings per composer as far as I can tell, but take it with a grain of salt since I don't know how to verify it.
- You don't really need a forward repeat bar at the beginning if it's just a simple loop. Also the Pno. markings.
- I'd suggest splitting up the lower layer half rests into two quarter rests to make it a bit clearer (although the way it's written right now doesn't really impede reading).
- Quarter-eighth triplet in m. 13/15/17 - consider making that eighth-rest-eighth?
- Notes overlap between hands in m. 20. Perhaps introduce other harmonies? (But you don't have to.)
- I'd personally suggest a double barline between m. 20-21.
- Rest collides with note in m. 22.

Truth
- Double barlines could work well in this one too.
- Adjust the dynamic in m. 22 so it's not so close to the articulation.
- For m. 23+ split the dotted quarter into eighth-tied-quarter since we're in 3/4 here.
- m. 31 perhaps consider moving the Ab to the upper staff for the RH to play instead?

A Soothing Strain
- I think this song sounds a lot more unnerving than it does soothing... haha
- Use expression text instead of plain text boxes so they'll automatically be attached to the staff instead of the page in case stuff moves around.
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