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Author Topic: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)  (Read 222 times)

LeviR.star

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The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« on: July 20, 2018, 02:56:03 AM »

Hello there! It's been talked about outside of the forums, but I'd like to start a little experiment/game here for arrangers.

The objective: arrange sheets of the same 4 songs of varying complexities for piano, and compare resulting sheets with each others'. Not all 4 are required.

The four different sheets (yet to be determined... somehow) As we will not assuming integrity in arranging, the sheet must not be on-site already; c'mon, there's plenty of fish in the sea.

1. A Chiptune Song (NES, GB, MS, etc.)
2. A SNES/N64 Song? {Currently being debated}
3. An Orchestrated Song (from compressed .mp3s, i.e. GameCube on up)

- [SWITCH] Super Mario Odyssey - "Fossil Falls"

4. A "Difficult-to-Notate" Song

This experiment/game will only be for you to join if you can finish the sheets without help. The main point is to see how arrangers' styles differ and what their strengths & weaknesses are.

Before we vote on the songs to choose, I'd like to open up suggestions from anyone else in the forums. The more input, the more solidified this can be.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 04:32:58 AM by LeviR.star »
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ThatHiddenCharacter

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 03:34:28 AM »

I still need to think up some song suggestions, but I've got some setup suggestions for now.

1. Song 2 should be SNES/N64 since N64 was still fairly simple in its music and you didn't include it in Song 3.

2. I think it shouldn't be required to arrange all 3 songs. An arranger can choose any number or combination of the songs (they can do all three if they so choose) and all the people that did the same arrangement will compare that one and if they did more than one, they compare that one (those ones) with others who did that (those). (This suggestion isn't as complex as I made it sound, I'm just bad at explaining things.)

3  If push comes to shove, I think on site sheets should be allowed as long as they aren't used while making the new sheet. Considering only one arranger would be getting a new sheet on site if we did this with sheets that haven't been done yet, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to do an arrangement with no one getting it on site, since as far as I can tell, this is more for fun and curiosity than getting sheets on site (though getting new sheets on site would definitely be a bonus). Of course, I'm not saying only do on site sheets, I'm just saying they should be allowed.
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Dekkadeci

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 03:34:42 AM »

For the chiptune song, do we restrict the selection to only those songs whose .nsf's/.ftm's/etc. cannot be found online, or do we allow/pick a song with its .nsf/.ftm/etc. already online? FamiTracker can display the notes of .ftm's in a form where they can be converted to 100% accurate and comprehensive sheet music with some effort, and NSF Importer can convert .nsf's into FamiTracker output.

(One website with several .nsf's is https://www.zophar.net/music. That's where I found Fire Emblem Gaiden's music in .nsf form, for example.)

ShyYoshiGuy

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2018, 03:43:46 AM »

I’ll join as I already said.
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Maelstrom

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2018, 03:52:27 AM »

I'd suggest adding a 4th, optional, challenge category. It shouldn't be something difficult to hear; rather, it should be something difficult to notate. This is where the real differences in styles of arrangers would become clear.

Also I'm totally for not having to do all categories. I am interested in this, but have little interest in arranging an 8-bit song.

In addition, I think we should choose songs that don't have arrangements on the site or the piano arrangement boards.

WaluigiTime64

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2018, 03:59:23 AM »

I'd suggest adding a 4th, optional, challenge category. It shouldn't be something difficult to hear; rather, it should be something difficult to notate. This is where the real differences in styles of arrangers would become clear.
In addition, I think we should choose songs that don't have arrangements on the site or the piano arrangement boards.
I agree with these things.
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Latios212

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2018, 04:04:47 AM »

I've suggested this in the past: I think it'd be really interesting to see how different people arrange Fossil Falls from Super Mario Odyssey. Iconic track, super clear and simple melody, but fleshing it out can be done in any number of imaginative ways. (Also, haven't seen very many good arrangements of it anywhere.)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 04:07:00 AM by Latios212 »
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LeviR.star

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2018, 04:33:02 AM »

1. Song 2 should be SNES/N64 since N64 was still fairly simple in its music and you didn't include it in Song 3.

Yes, I agree. Perhaps we could expand upon this category even more?

For the chiptune song, do we restrict the selection to only those songs whose .nsf's/.ftm's/etc. cannot be found online, or do we allow/pick a song with its .nsf/.ftm/etc. already online? FamiTracker can display the notes of .ftm's in a form where they can be converted to 100% accurate and comprehensive sheet music with some effort, and NSF Importer can convert .nsf's into FamiTracker output.

(One website with several .nsf's is https://www.zophar.net/music. That's where I found Fire Emblem Gaiden's music in .nsf form, for example.)

I'm not sure about this. Thoughts, guys? I've only listened to separated channels a few times in the past, but that seems like a little bit of overkill.

I'd suggest adding a 4th, optional, challenge category. It shouldn't be something difficult to hear; rather, it should be something difficult to notate. This is where the real differences in styles of arrangers would become clear.

Also I'm totally for not having to do all categories. I am interested in this, but have little interest in arranging an 8-bit song.

In addition, I think we should choose songs that don't have arrangements on the site or the piano arrangement boards.

Noted. I like all of these ideas.

I've suggested this in the past: I think it'd be really interesting to see how different people arrange Fossil Falls from Super Mario Odyssey. Iconic track, super clear and simple melody, but fleshing it out can be done in any number of imaginative ways. (Also, haven't seen very many good arrangements of it anywhere.)

An excellent idea! I'll add that to a list in the OP.
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WaluigiTime64

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 06:35:56 AM »

For the chiptune song, do we restrict the selection to only those songs whose .nsf's/.ftm's/etc. cannot be found online, or do we allow/pick a song with its .nsf/.ftm/etc. already online? FamiTracker can display the notes of .ftm's in a form where they can be converted to 100% accurate and comprehensive sheet music with some effort, and NSF Importer can convert .nsf's into FamiTracker output.

(One website with several .nsf's is https://www.zophar.net/music. That's where I found Fire Emblem Gaiden's music in .nsf form, for example.)
I'm not sure about this. Thoughts, guys? I've only listened to separated channels a few times in the past, but that seems like a little bit of overkill.
What Dekka is suggesting is not just listening to the separated channels. It's opening it up in FamiTracker and writing the notes down exactly as they are.
Though I personally consider this lazy, in this scenario we aren't assessing transcription abilities, so if whoever uses this particular strategy edits the piece enough so that the notes are suitable for piano (a.k.a. "arranging"), it's probably ok.
Also finding a good piece for us all to do and making sure there isn't an ftm of the soundtrack readily available on the internet would probably be a nightmare, so I'd suggest not considering it as an issue.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 06:41:29 AM by WaluigiTime64 »
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ShyYoshiGuy

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 06:53:29 AM »

What are .nsf/.ftm/etc. anyway?
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WaluigiTime64

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2018, 06:57:55 AM »

Nintendo Sound File, and FamiTracker Module respectively. The first is a file that stores all the audio in a single NES game. The latter is a file specific to Famitracker, which is pretty much your standard project file (like with any audio program).

Using a special version of Famitracker to read the .nsf files, and a rather convoluted setup, you can make accurate sheet music (not regarding playability).
« Last Edit: July 20, 2018, 07:08:09 AM by WaluigiTime64 »
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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2018, 11:05:28 AM »

I think this is a great idea! By "Difficult-to-Notate", is that in the sense where the piece is hard to creatively condense it into a playable piano solo (like many orchestra pieces), it is difficult to discern rhythms and such due to an open nature and/or various time signature changes (like some BotW pieces), or some combination of the two?
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LeviR.star

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Re: The Arranger's Style Experiment (or some better name)
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2018, 02:28:25 PM »

I think this is a great idea! By "Difficult-to-Notate", is that in the sense where the piece is hard to creatively condense it into a playable piano solo (like many orchestra pieces), it is difficult to discern rhythms and such due to an open nature and/or various time signature changes (like some BotW pieces), or some combination of the two?

Methinks Mael meant the latter, meaning it could be easy to hear, just not to write down.
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