[PC] CrossCode - "Lea!" by Greg

Started by Zeta, December 19, 2018, 11:36:11 PM

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Greg

Hey, no need to get heated, I'm the one who messaged Libera privately to discuss the sheet. Way I see it, there's not much point in bothering everyone on the server with discussion of their particular feedback.

Also I'll look at your suggestions soonish. Thanks again for looking things over!

Khunjund

Quote from: Greg on January 15, 2019, 02:23:23 PMHey, no need to get heated, I'm the one who messaged Libera privately to discuss the sheet. Way I see it, there's not much point in bothering everyone on the server with discussion of their particular feedback.

Also I'll look at your suggestions soonish. Thanks again for looking things over!

Trust me, it won't be a bother. The only thing anyone ever does on that server is post memes or ask others to join their gaming sessions, and the submission channel can go for weeks on end without any discussion.

I completely understand that you might want one person's opinion in particular, but you don't lose anything by giving others the possibility to chime in too, do you? I honestly think it's better for all work involving submissions to be done publicly, and that's the reason it's ideally handled in the forum.

Aside from that, it just really grinds my gears when I invest time into giving feedback on a submission, only to be told it's being handled without me. It's happened to me before, and, while I know this likely isn't anyone's intention, it really gives me the impression that people are telling me to get lost.
Please stop making lists using hyphens.

Static

Quote from: D3ath3657 on January 15, 2019, 07:30:38 PMI honestly think it's better for all work involving submissions to be done publicly, and that's the reason it's ideally handled in the forum.
I very much agree with this sentiment, but users do and should continue to have the ability to chat with a staff member or anyone else in private about sheet issues if they so desire. Some people just don't want to bring up certain issues publicly for whatever reason that may be.

With that said, whatever is discussed in those private chats should then be posted by an updater in the thread. This doesn't always happen, I am aware, but most of the time it does. I know I'm sure to post everything I talk about privately when I review sheets.

In this case, Libera explicitly stated that everything Greg and him fixed was stuff already mentioned in the thread. They weren't hiding anything. The files are publicly visible for anyone to download and see the changes. I don't see what the issue is in this particular thread.

Quote from: D3ath3657 on January 15, 2019, 07:30:38 PMAside from that, it just really grinds my gears when I invest time into giving feedback on a submission, only to be told it's being handled without me.
I understand how you feel (after all, I was in your place before), but you are not an Updater, so of course things aren't always going to be handled with you. Your feedback, and everyone else's, goes into consideration when we check sheets, but ultimately we are the ones who are accepting them and putting them on the site. In most cases, we have the final say in how things are done.

Of course conversation and debate are welcome here, and you (and anyone else) are free to challenge other arrangers and Updaters on any issue, but you are not in charge of anyone's submissions but your own.

Greg

Quote from: Libera on January 12, 2019, 11:34:45 AM2.  I personally had a hard time following your arrangement while listening to the original, and the reason for this is that the way the piece is currently written has different parts drop in and out frequently with the melody being heavily obscured on the sheet most of the time.  Doing that sort of thing is fine as a transcription, but as an arrangement it doesn't really make a lot of musical sense.  This problem occurs in bars 3-10 and again in bars 29-32 (again, using my version's bar numbers).

I ended up shrinking the accompanying notes, as well as transposing the harp down an octave in m. 3-6 (more or less), so that the melody is on top in the first section. I decided to leave all the violin stuff as-is. Hopefully that makes the melody more obvious.

Quote from: Libera on January 12, 2019, 11:34:45 AM3.  Regarding articulations, there are places where there are staccatos on practically every note and I feel like they start to lose their meaning after a while and serve to make things look quite cluttered.  I'd focus on placing the staccatos either more precisely (i.e. use less of them) or give a direction instead of articulating every note.

The most egregious section for this is the first few measures of the main theme, so I added a staccato indication instead. There's a few non-staccato notes in that section with slur markings, so hopefully it's obvious enough what to do for those notes. I left everything else as-is for the time being since it seems fine to me.

Quote from: D3ath3657 on January 15, 2019, 09:53:34 AM
  • In measure 20, you could drop the half note F# to give the melody some room. In this case, you could also cut the half note Cn, because it's already being played above, and it would keep your second layer consistently on one voice. Alternatively, you could do something like this:
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  • I'm positive the chord in measure 28 is Cmin9, and the chord in measure 29 is F#13.
  • Consider putting a courtesy A natural in measure 30.
  • I'd repeat the D natural on beat three of measure 32, just to really get that E13 sound.
  • Consider dropping the D natural in measure 34 for convenience (or at least moving it up an octave, to get a structure like in measure 25—which I don't find ideal, because of the second interval between top melody note and chord, but it can still work).
  • In measure 37, you follow my even-between-both-hands spread-out voicing, but from measure 51 to 57, you use dense everything-in-the-left-hand voicings, which looks inconsistent to me. I'd suggest you follow my recommended voicings a bit more closely, but then again, if this sounds good to you, so be it.
  • Measure 59: same thing as measure 34. This ninth voicing isn't unplayable, but it's not very pianistic either.
  • You could cut the B in the chord at the start of measure 60: it's not necessary (the bass already plays it), and it would keep your right-hand chord voicings for this section consistently at four notes.
  • I guess you could add the little arpeggio in measure 65, if you want.
  • Similar to what I've said above, I think you could drop the right hand A in 71 to make the melody stand out more.

Point-by-point:
  • I decided against doing this... something just doesn't sound right to me. I think it's too empty? Also, I think the upward movement suggested there is important to preserve.
  • I'm assuming you meant m.29 and 30. I fixed the chord in m.29: couldn't find a way to make the m.30 chord sound good on piano so I left it.
  • Done.
  • Done.
  • I deleted the Dn.
  • I think this sounds fine as-is. That section in the original is heavier on the bass anyway.
  • Transposed the An up an octave.
  • Done.
  • I couldn't find a good way to add this without it mucking up either the playability or the existing notes so I just left it.
  • Done.
(Also I fixed the sextuplet.)

Libera

Good work on the edits so far, this is really shaping up.  I've just got some final comments here from me:

-You should have the directions as expressions rather than just plain text so that they stay attached to the staff.  (This doesn't really matter for the sheet musically, but it's good practice when using finale to help with editing etc etc.)
-On the first page the systems are quite spread out and you're very close to the copyright at the bottom.  I'd move everything closer together to make the density match better with the subsequent pages.
-The tie in bar 24 is colliding with the natural sign.
-Flip the inner tie in bar 26.
-I'm not hearing the D# on the third beat of bar 33 in the right hand (and it's kind of awkward to play anyway with the arpeggio before it.)  I'd just leave it out.
-I would remove the staccato bit of the articulation on the left hand chords in bar 34 and 35 or even change them to crotchets rather than quavers.  They sound quite a bit longer than the ones that are off the beat and this would help differentiate them.
-I was initially a bit sceptical of the staccato-tenutos that were on the semiquavers in bar 36, but I actually think it sort of works.
-To match with your use of slurs elsewhere I'd suggest slurring the sextuplet in bar 36.  Speaking of that whistle bit, I'm actually not a massive fan of including it but I can see why you'd want to and I don't really have any argument against it other than personal preference so feel free to leave it in. :P
-Although in general I'm fine with leaving the pedal markings out, I do think bar 29 could do with making it a little more obvious that you want pedal there.  My suggestion would be to write the chord at the start as a semibreve in a separate layer (or just the top three notes of the chord) just so that's it's super clear.
-Regarding to graces in bar 33, at least to my knowledge, they should be just semiquavers.  If you're worried about their speed, you could rewrite it as a rolled chord instead.
-I think that the final bar would be better written as minims in the right hand than crotchets and rests.  There doesn't seem to be a very noticeable gap between the chords in the original.

And I think that's it!  It probably seems like a lot again, but they're all small things really.  They sure did manage to fit a lot into those two minutes though...

Greg

Quote from: Libera on January 16, 2019, 10:48:53 AMGood work on the edits so far, this is really shaping up.  I've just got some final comments here from me:

-You should have the directions as expressions rather than just plain text so that they stay attached to the staff.  (This doesn't really matter for the sheet musically, but it's good practice when using finale to help with editing etc etc.)
-On the first page the systems are quite spread out and you're very close to the copyright at the bottom.  I'd move everything closer together to make the density match better with the subsequent pages.
-The tie in bar 24 is colliding with the natural sign.
-Flip the inner tie in bar 26.
-I'm not hearing the D# on the third beat of bar 33 in the right hand (and it's kind of awkward to play anyway with the arpeggio before it.)  I'd just leave it out.
-I would remove the staccato bit of the articulation on the left hand chords in bar 34 and 35 or even change them to crotchets rather than quavers.  They sound quite a bit longer than the ones that are off the beat and this would help differentiate them.
-I was initially a bit sceptical of the staccato-tenutos that were on the semiquavers in bar 36, but I actually think it sort of works.
-To match with your use of slurs elsewhere I'd suggest slurring the sextuplet in bar 36.  Speaking of that whistle bit, I'm actually not a massive fan of including it but I can see why you'd want to and I don't really have any argument against it other than personal preference so feel free to leave it in. :P
-Although in general I'm fine with leaving the pedal markings out, I do think bar 29 could do with making it a little more obvious that you want pedal there.  My suggestion would be to write the chord at the start as a semibreve in a separate layer (or just the top three notes of the chord) just so that's it's super clear.
-Regarding to graces in bar 33, at least to my knowledge, they should be just semiquavers.  If you're worried about their speed, you could rewrite it as a rolled chord instead.
-I think that the final bar would be better written as minims in the right hand than crotchets and rests.  There doesn't seem to be a very noticeable gap between the chords in the original.

And I think that's it!  It probably seems like a lot again, but they're all small things really.  They sure did manage to fit a lot into those two minutes though...
  • Done.
  • Done.
  • Whoooooops.
  • Done.
  • I hear it pretty clearly! It's part of the harp arpeggio there that I mostly left out. I'd rather leave it in, personally.
  • Sounds good to me. I left them as eighths since they're not quite the same as the RH tones.
  • Well, alright.
  • Done.
  • Sure thing.
  • I think you halved those when you were redoing the rest of the sheet, haha. Fixed!
  • I sort of did this? Ended up making the final note a dotted quarter, since it fades out a bit and leaves some empty-ish space before the repeat and I felt that that was important to retain.

Libera

Quote from: Greg on January 16, 2019, 10:18:20 PMI think you halved those when you were redoing the rest of the sheet, haha. Fixed!

Oh haha, you're probably right!  At least I spotted it.

Everything else looks great!  Unfortunately I forgot to include something in my last post about moving the third quaver rest in the left hand of bar 32 down to match the previous two, but it's such a small edit that I'll get that myself to save you the bother.

Approved!

Greg

I see a Deltarune musx! Might be worth uploading the correct file :P

Thanks for the fix.

Libera

Not exactly my greatest moment...  This is what happens when you have loads of different people's files all in the same folder on your computer.  Fixed. :P

Latios212

This looks great, just a last couple things from me.
- Copyright info is too low on the page (and URL needs a slash).
- Point the ties in m. 26-27 away from the changing note for ease of reading.

I've tweaked the files. Good to go!
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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turtle

Zeta

This submission has been accepted by Latios212.

~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot