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[SNES] Kirby Super Star - "Gladiator Kirby" by LeviR.star

Started by Zeta, January 17, 2019, 07:50:06 PM

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Zeta

Submission Information:

Series: Kirby
Game: Kirby Super Star
Console: Super Nintendo Entertainment System
Title: Gladiator Kirby
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: LeviR.star

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LeviR.star


Mainly, various albums for the original Kirby Super Star have listed this song as two general names: "Gladiator Kirby" and "Coliseum". The official Kirby Super Star Ultra disc lists it as "Coliseum Battle", but since these names are all Japanese translations, and everyone knows this mode and song by "The Arena", I have decided to name it "Arena Battle" for the sake of the site.

If anyone needs to ask any questions here on my choice of parts, articulations, playability vs. accuracy decisions, etc., feel free ask away. I had to put a lot of thought into this sheet, so I'm willing to explain and talk over anything that can be improved.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Libera

Quote from: LeviR.star on January 17, 2019, 07:50:18 PMMainly, various albums for the original Kirby Super Star have listed this song as two general names: "Gladiator Kirby" and "Coliseum". The official Kirby Super Star Ultra disc lists it as "Coliseum Battle", but since these names are all Japanese translations, and everyone knows this mode and song by "The Arena", I have decided to name it "Arena Battle" for the sake of the site.

I think I'll leave this to someone who knows anything about Kirby.



This is a really nice looking sheet!  Going through it now...

-Key signature: I think there's two obvious choices here, either A major or D minor.  If it was me, I think I'd go with D minor but I can see the arguments for both of them.  Either way, the A# in bar 6 should be a Bb. 
-On a similar note, I think the accidentals in the graces at bar 19 might be better as Bb - Bn - B# rather than A# - Bn - Cn.
-The bass accompaniment is just about playable, but I'm interested into why you chose the four semiquaver figure to be E A E A rather than the more 'natural' choice of A E A E.  I don't necessarily think it's a problem, but I just think it'd be more intuitive with the lowest notes first.
-Why not include the bend up to the G in bar 15 like you did in bar 19?  Similarly for the bend to the G in bar 22.
-I'd suggest bringing an extra system onto the first page.  You've got plenty of space to fit it in, and at the moment the first page looks a little awkwardly spread out.
-The interesting copyright issue showed up again!
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I can't remember what we did when this last came up.  I think we might have just worked out that it didn't affect the pdf export or the print so it didn't really matter.  Still, funny anyway.
-The really low chords in bar 27-28 kind of come out of nowhere and I'm not sure that they really fit with the rest of the piece all that well.  I'd recommend shifting the voicings around on those chords to get them in a higher register, or leaving out some harmonies so it sounds less muddy.
-The chord is G minor in bar 34, so change the Fs to Gs.  Also you could consider incorporating the bass movement in this section, possibly in the lower notes of the left hand accompaniment pattern.  It might require to messing around with some inversions to get it playable, but it might be worth it.
-I'd hide the rest in bar 24 since that voice goes into the top staff.

LeviR.star

Le feedback
Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-Key signature: I think there's two obvious choices here, either A major or D minor.  If it was me, I think I'd go with D minor but I can see the arguments for both of them.  Either way, the A# in bar 6 should be a Bb. 

I thought A minor made since because of the accidentals, but if you're not sure, we can wait for another updater's input.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-On a similar note, I think the accidentals in the graces at bar 19 might be better as Bb - Bn - B# rather than A# - Bn - Cn.

Are you positive? I don't really like the looks of all 3 grace notes alternating accidentals on the same note; it doesn't look right to me.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-The bass accompaniment is just about playable, but I'm interested into why you chose the four semiquaver figure to be E A E A rather than the more 'natural' choice of A E A E.  I don't necessarily think it's a problem, but I just think it'd be more intuitive with the lowest notes first.

If you're talking about lowest notes, are you hearing an E2 in the bass? If it makes it even easier for the performing, I can either move the E down or the A up.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-Why not include the bend up to the G in bar 15 like you did in bar 19?  Similarly for the bend to the G in bar 22.

M. 19's bend starts much lower than 15 & 22's. I could add single grace notes to those spots, but they'd be treated more like grace notes than drawn-out bends, and plus, I'd also have to bend up to the D in 22, making the tiny bend/grace a dyad (which doesn't always sound that nice)

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-I'd suggest bringing an extra system onto the first page.  You've got plenty of space to fit it in, and at the moment the first page looks a little awkwardly spread out.
-The chord is G minor in bar 34, so change the Fs to Gs.
-I'd hide the rest in bar 24 since that voice goes into the top staff.

Done and done.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-The interesting copyright issue showed up again!
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I can't remember what we did when this last came up.  I think we might have just worked out that it didn't affect the pdf export or the print so it didn't really matter.  Still, funny anyway.

Sorry; like I've said before, I have completely no control over this issue.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 03:42:14 AM-The really low chords in bar 27-28 kind of come out of nowhere and I'm not sure that they really fit with the rest of the piece all that well.  I'd recommend shifting the voicings around on those chords to get them in a higher register, or leaving out some harmonies so it sounds less muddy.
-Also you could consider incorporating the bass movement in this section, possibly in the lower notes of the left hand accompaniment pattern.  It might require to messing around with some inversions to get it playable, but it might be worth it.

Have you any suggestions for these? ^^
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I'll update the files once the above is addressed.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Libera

Quote from: LeviR.star on January 18, 2019, 09:00:01 AMI thought A minor made since because of the accidentals, but if you're not sure, we can wait for another updater's input.

A minor is definitely not correct.  Up until bar 21 the piece is pretty much sitting on an A major chord, so it really depends on whether you're viewing the surrounding stuff as IIb chords and the like (and then the key signature should be A major) or you're viewing the A major chord as a dominant chord (in which case the key signature should be D minor).  My primary reason for choosing D minor over A major is that it would use less accidentals overall, so it'd be easier to read (and people are used to seeing C#s in D minor anyway).  Also, I just kind of get a more minor vibe from this piece than a major one.

Quote from: LeviR.star on January 18, 2019, 09:00:01 AMAre you positive? I don't really like the looks of all 3 grace notes alternating accidentals on the same note; it doesn't look right to me.

Yeah that wasn't really a great suggestion, whoops.  If you change the key signature to D minor, Bb Bn Cn looks pretty good.

Quote from: LeviR.star on January 18, 2019, 09:00:01 AMIf you're talking about lowest notes, are you hearing an E2 in the bass? If it makes it even easier for the performing, I can either move the E down or the A up.

Perhaps I'm being confusing: for reference what I'm suggesting is to change bar 2 (and everywhere else with that same figure) to
You cannot view this attachment..
If that doesn't clear things up, give me a shout.

Quote from: LeviR.star on January 18, 2019, 09:00:01 AMM. 19's bend starts much lower than 15 & 22's. I could add single grace notes to those spots, but they'd be treated more like grace notes than drawn-out bends, and plus, I'd also have to bend up to the D in 22, making the tiny bend/grace a dyad (which doesn't always sound that nice)

I think I was envisioning single note graces for those two, but if you don't think it sounds good then fair enough.



Regarding the two things you wanted suggestions on, I'll try and whip something up later tonight.

LeviR.star

#5
Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 10:04:50 AMA minor is definitely not correct.  Up until bar 21 the piece is pretty much sitting on an A major chord, so it really depends on whether you're viewing the surrounding stuff as IIb chords and the like (and then the key signature should be A major) or you're viewing the A major chord as a dominant chord (in which case the key signature should be D minor).  My primary reason for choosing D minor over A major is that it would use less accidentals overall, so it'd be easier to read (and people are used to seeing C#s in D minor anyway).  Also, I just kind of get a more minor vibe from this piece than a major one.

This makes sense. Switching to D minor.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 10:04:50 AMYeah that wasn't really a great suggestion, whoops.  If you change the key signature to D minor, Bb Bn Cn looks pretty good.

I agree, much better.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 10:04:50 AMPerhaps I'm being confusing: for reference what I'm suggesting is to change bar 2 (and everywhere else with that same figure) to
You cannot view this attachment..
If that doesn't clear things up, give me a shout.

Ohh, ok. I can do that (either way works for me).

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 10:04:50 AMI think I was envisioning single note graces for those two, but if you don't think it sounds good then fair enough.

I mean, to keep consistency, I can add them in. The dyad grace note won't sound horrible, so as long as the performer can play it, we're fine having it in.

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 10:04:50 AMRegarding the two things you wanted suggestions on, I'll try and whip something up later tonight.

Sounds good to me, thank you.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Khunjund

This piece is mainly in A phrygian dominant, except for the very final phrase, as well as measures 21 to about 27 (where it starts modulating back to A), which are in D major—not once is there a D minor chord in the piece; it's all extensive use of mixed mode. Even then, the loop at the end clearly modulates back to A, so the main key of this piece is definitely A.

There are three ways to write the key signature for A phrygian dominant:
  • Use the key for A minor and write all accidentals (Bb, C#).
  • Use the key for A phrygian (one flat) and write the C#.
  • Make a custom key with both Bb and C#.
Please stop making lists using hyphens.

Libera

I mean I'd argue that depending on how you view it these things are basically the same thing.  They're certainly the same visually if you

Quote from: D3ath3657 on January 18, 2019, 10:27:57 AMUse the key for A phrygian (one flat) and write the C#.

Which I highly recommend.

Khunjund

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 10:49:14 AMI mean I'd argue that depending on how you view it these things are basically the same thing.

There are similarities and there are differences.
Please stop making lists using hyphens.

Libera

As promised, I had a mess around with those two sections.

Bars 27-28:

I had two ideas for this section.  Both of them made the left hand more closely follow the bass line.

#1: I cut back on the harmonies but still included some in the left hand.
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#2: I removed all of the harmonies from the left hand and moved them into the right hand as a second layer.
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Feel free to do with these as you desire.

For the left hand accompaniment after bar 28, I decided that the best thing to do would probably be to simply change the first note of each bar so that it had the correct bass note at the bottom.  For example:
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I hope that helps, and if you have any questions about any of that be sure to ask.

Latios212

Just popping in real quick - I think we should stick with the Am key sig
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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turtle

Khunjund

Quote from: Latios212 on January 18, 2019, 01:12:40 PMJust popping in real quick - I think we should stick with the Am key sig

I vote for the nonstandard Bb+C# key signature.
Please stop making lists using hyphens.

Yug_Guy

Quote from: LeviR.star on January 17, 2019, 07:50:18 PMMainly, various albums for the original Kirby Super Star have listed this song as two general names: "Gladiator Kirby" and "Coliseum". The official Kirby Super Star Ultra disc lists it as "Coliseum Battle", but since these names are all Japanese translations, and everyone knows this mode and song by "The Arena", I have decided to name it "Arena Battle" for the sake of the site.
Just my two cents: the site I used to get the names for my KSS arrangements lists this song as "Gladiator Kirby". Do what you will with this information.

LeviR.star

Quote from: Libera on January 18, 2019, 11:51:38 AMAs promised, I had a mess around with those two sections.

Bars 27-28:

I had two ideas for this section.  Both of them made the left hand more closely follow the bass line.

#1: I cut back on the harmonies but still included some in the left hand.
Spoiler
You cannot view this attachment.
[close]

#2: I removed all of the harmonies from the left hand and moved them into the right hand as a second layer.
Spoiler
You cannot view this attachment.
[close]

Feel free to do with these as you desire.

For the left hand accompaniment after bar 28, I decided that the best thing to do would probably be to simply change the first note of each bar so that it had the correct bass note at the bottom.  For example:
Spoiler
You cannot view this attachment..
[close]

I hope that helps, and if you have any questions about any of that be sure to ask.

Great ideas, Libera! I used #1 and your suggestion for after m. 28.

Quote from: Latios212 on January 18, 2019, 01:12:40 PMJust popping in real quick - I think we should stick with the Am key sig

Fine by me. Just let me know if I have any incorrect accidentals.

Quote from: Yug_Guy on January 18, 2019, 02:13:23 PMJust my two cents: the site I used to get the names for my KSS arrangements lists this song as "Gladiator Kirby". Do what you will with this information.

I have to say, that seems like a pretty good source. I'll just discuss this with Kirby Wiki Discord, because later incarnations of Arena themes have names associated with the word "Arena". It's up to you guys, too, on how easy it should be for this sheet to be found. Finding Kirby Super Star song titles will be the death of me.

Files updated with what I've got so far. Thanks for the help, guys!
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Dekkadeci

Ironically, I always found this theme tougher to transcribe than the True Arena theme from Kirby Super Star Ultra.

Listening to this, the main thing I noticed is the total lack of the upper voice in Bars 1-4 (except for the first beat of Bar 1). Why isn't that line of A's, B flats, and G's in this transcription?