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Author Topic: [NDS] Pokémon Platinum Version - "Battle Hall (Two Pianos)" by Radiak488417  (Read 487 times)

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Submission Information:

Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Platinum Version
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Battle Hall
Instrumentation Two Pianos
Arranger: Radiak488417
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 07:43:55 PM by Libera »
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Radiak488417

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I used MuseScore to make this, so the Finale file might be a bit weird formatting-wise. Hope that's not an issue!


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Latios212

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This is an incredibly solid transcription and the parts are very well laid out for piano!

That said, there are a number of rhythm grouping issues as well as the issues the formatting has when importing into Finale.

Mind if I take a stab at fixing it up?
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Radiak488417

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Not at all! I'm aware that the rhythm notations are pretty messy. The other thing that I know for a fact needs work are the accidentals (they're very inconsistent throughout the transcription), so if you could give me some pointers on which ones to use where that would be great. I have a solo piano reduction as well, should I submit it separately or link it in this topic?
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Radiak488417

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Just updated the submission—the rhythms and accidentals should be a bit less messy now.
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Latios212

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Ack sorry I've been really busy lately. I haven't forgotten I promise, I'll still help this one out when I get a chance ^^
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Latios212

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Okay, sorry for the wait!! I've updated the files in the OP.

Changes:
- Mostly rhythm groupings and note durations. Most of the things I adjusted are explained here: https://www.ninsheetmusic.org/forum/index.php?topic=10492.0. They include beaming together 16th notes that occur in the same beat, and splitting up notes that pass through the beat. Any questions, do feel free to ask.
- Fixed a few inaccurate rhythms and pitches here and there. Overall it's very accurate though, hardly anything important was missed. A few things to point out are the melody in m. 7 beat 3.75 (B instead of A) m. 24 (not the same as 22), m. 33 top layer (should match the LH as C# and then Cn)
- Accidentals: They mostly look good! A few places I adjusted are the B#>Cn at the end of m. 9, as well as D#>Eb in m. 12. Similarly in other places, though I think B# is better as a neighboring chromatic tone to the C# in some places like m. 42.
- I don't think the melody should have accents on all the notes; I've hidden them so they still play back louder but for the sake of what's on paper it should be fine without. In place of that if you want you could use a dynamic or other indication to tell where the melody is.

Let me know if you have any questions or I messed anything up! I had started formatting your original file and tried to keep it up to date with what you've updated it with; I hope I didn't miss anything. Otherwise I'm done with this one. :P

As for a solo sheet, yes that should be a separate submission.
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Radiak488417

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Thanks, Latios, and sorry for the late reply! I really appreciate you taking the time to fix all my bad 16th note rhythms (beaming across rests is a nightmare in MuseScore). I'll definitely be giving that guide a read.

- Fixed a few inaccurate rhythms and pitches here and there. Overall it's very accurate though, hardly anything important was missed. A few things to point out are the melody in m. 7 beat 3.75 (B instead of A) m. 24 (not the same as 22), m. 33 top layer (should match the LH as C# and then Cn)

I can't believe I missed these, thank you!

- I don't think the melody should have accents on all the notes; I've hidden them so they still play back louder but for the sake of what's on paper it should be fine without. In place of that if you want you could use a dynamic or other indication to tell where the melody is.

Dynamics in MuseScore are global within each instrument (as far as I can tell), so if you set the top staff of piano 2 to forte and the bottom to mf, the whole thing will play back as mf. :P I considered writing "melody" or something but that seemed clunky/obtrusive.

As for things you may have missed, I'm almost positive I hear a B#/C grace note in the melody's lower voice at measure 9, beat 2, and in the same spot in measure 37. I don't know if I missed it or if you missed it, but it's there in my MuseScore file and isn't in the final submission. The other thing is that I'm pretty sure measure 12, beat 1 isn't actually a triplet—it's some other strange rhythm. I'm well aware that whatever ghastly thing I had notated there originally was incorrect, but unless I'm hearing things, the first note is longer than the second two. Leaving it a triplet seems like the simplest solution, but listening to the original and the Finale file back-to-back, something doesn't sound quite right.

Other than that everything seems great! Would it be possible to put this sheet in the next DPP Official Arrangement Project update? This song wasn't claimed by anyone, which is what inspired me to arrange it in the first place (besides it also being a favorite of mine).
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Dekkadeci

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Just as a note: Musescore does support separate dynamics for each staff. Just set the dynamics to "Staff" instead of the default "Part" in the dropdown menu.

Radiak488417

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Well, isn't that something. Thanks Dekkadeci! I've seen a lot of your arrangements on the MuseScore website, you're a fantastic arranger as well as composer.
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mastersuperfan

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I know some people really aren't a fan of swing 16ths, partly because it's just unconventional and partly because it's harder to read (which is true, imo), but this arrangement seems to work well with them. Still, it might be worth exploring whether swing eighths would work better. In this case, you'd probably be working with a 2/2 time signature—although I like how the measures are divided now, so maybe even 4/2, as weird as that sounds? Swing 16ths might be fine anyways, but these might be worth considering.

I'd also advise against having any beats notated as "16th-8th-16th" because it makes it harder to read with swing 16ths, just like seeing an 8th-quarter-8th pattern with swing eighths isn't super intuitive. In every instance you use this grouping, it seems like the 8th note has a staccato on it, so I would just change it to a 16th note instead and have a 16th rest (e.g. 16th-16th-rest-16th). (Similarly, if you switch to swing eighths, use 8th-8th-rest-8th.)

The part about the swing 16ths vs. 8ths is up to your judgment, and probably something worth seeking an extra opinion or two on. Didn't check the notes in-depth, but it sounds like a very solid arrangement from a listen. Nice job!
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Thanks, Latios, and sorry for the late reply! I really appreciate you taking the time to fix all my bad 16th note rhythms (beaming across rests is a nightmare in MuseScore). I'll definitely be giving that guide a read.
Hey no worries! Thank you for taking the time to go through all this!

I will go take a look at the things you pointed out in the post above a bit later - but just to comment on something right now:
I know some people really aren't a fan of swing 16ths, partly because it's just unconventional and partly because it's harder to read (which is true, imo), but this arrangement seems to work well with them. Still, it might be worth exploring whether swing eighths would work better. In this case, you'd probably be working with a 2/2 time signature—although I like how the measures are divided now, so maybe even 4/2, as weird as that sounds? Swing 16ths might be fine anyways, but these might be worth considering.

I'd also advise against having any beats notated as "16th-8th-16th" because it makes it harder to read with swing 16ths, just like seeing an 8th-quarter-8th pattern with swing eighths isn't super intuitive. In every instance you use this grouping, it seems like the 8th note has a staccato on it, so I would just change it to a 16th note instead and have a 16th rest (e.g. 16th-16th-rest-16th). (Similarly, if you switch to swing eighths, use 8th-8th-rest-8th.)

The part about the swing 16ths vs. 8ths is up to your judgment, and probably something worth seeking an extra opinion or two on. Didn't check the notes in-depth, but it sounds like a very solid arrangement from a listen. Nice job!
I'm not personally very familiar with 16th swing myself, but I do think that this piece definitely warrants it as opposed to the alternative of swing 8ths.

I do like the second comment, and think that writing those rhythms a bit differently could help it read a bit easier. Thoughts, Radiak? Looking back at it there are also a few minor things here and there I either missed or could use a bit of adjusting (like disconnecting the beam between beats 1 and 2 in m. 21/23).
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Radiak488417

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I agree with you, Latios. Swing 16ths, unconventional though they may be, are definitely the best way to notate this piece (plus MuseScore doesn’t let you change multiple note values at once so I would have to rework the entire piece to do swing 8ths). mastersuperfan, I also agree with your sentiment about 16th-8th-16th rhythms, that makes a lot of sense. However, I’m not quite sure how to proceed from here, because in order for me to edit the beaming I’d have to import everything back into MuseScore, which would mess up the formatting again. If someone would be willing to fix it up again that would be great, but it seems like a hassle to do this every time...
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 02:56:36 AM by Radiak488417 »
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Latios212

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Do you have Finale Notepad? It should allow you to edit note durations like that, but I can see if I can make edits for you sometime in the next few days otherwise.
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Radiak488417

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I do have Notepad, although I hate working with it... Regardless, I managed to suck it up and make the edits. Submission has been updated (except the PDF, Notepad seems to think I don't have enough memory to export it :P). I think I was wrong about measure 12—it IS a triplet, my confusion was coming from the grace note, so disregard that whole thing I said about it. Let me know if I missed something!
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