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Author Topic: [SW] Fire Emblem: Three Houses - "Garreg Mach Cathedral" by Nacho2420  (Read 1133 times)

Zeta

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Submission Information:

Series: Fire Emblem
Game: Fire Emblem: Three Houses
Console: Nintendo Switch
Title: Garreg Mach Cathedral
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Nacho2420
« Last Edit: June 23, 2021, 05:06:54 AM by Latios212 »
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nacho2420

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Libera

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Hi, nice to meet you etc.  I see you've been around here before (though before my time) so I take it you understand the process and everything.  The sheet itself is reasonably clean but I've got some comments mostly on the transcription side of things.

-Missing a top G# in bars 1-3.
-Missing the vocal note (high D#) in bar 1.  It's easier to see that it's there on the loop I think.
-I'd suggest restriking the LH G# at the start of bars 2 and 3.  The sound just doesn't sustain for that long on a piano, even with pedal and so not restriking means you lose the bottom note of the chord by the end.
-Bottom note in bar 5 is a G# not a C#.
-Any reason for leaving out the vocal part in bars 5-6 (and the extra stuff in bar 7)?  To me, that's the most interesthing happening at that point so I think it's a good idea to get it in.
-Personally I'd suggest using a caesura instead of the 5/4 bar in 12.  Your choice though.
-I think 4/4 would be preferable over C in this piece due to the time signature changes.  Particularly the one bar of common time in bar 27 is slightly ugly.
-Any reason to drop the octaves in bar 7-8 for the left hand?  They sound like they're still there to me.
-Missing D# organ harmony in bars 9-10 (and then octaves above the LH in bar 11).
-Missing a G# above the C# in the left hand of bar 12.
-The courtesy accidental in bar 15 is sort of the wrong way around and very confusing in my opinion.  Personally I'd just leave it out completely but if it's going to be in it should be in the left hand rather than the right hand (although that could still be confusing, which is why I'd suggest just leaving it out here.)
-I'm not quite sure what's going on with the voicings in this next section (18-25) but it seems like there's a lot of mixed voices, missing notes etc.  I'd suggest having another look through this section yourself and trying to work out exactly what's going on here though if you can get stuck I can try writing something out.
-I think that the 4/4 and 3/4 bars in 21-22 are the wrong way around.  The easiest way to see how this should be broken up is the bass movement which makes far more sense in 3/4 -> 4/4 then it does doing 4/4 -> 3/4.  It also makes more sense that way overall as then that has the 3/4 section all as one block rather than going to 4/4, then back to 3/4 and then to 4/4 again.  It might also help to notice that the F# in the bass is restruck on beat 3 of bar 21.
-The crotchet rest in bar 25 could be brought back down to usual height probably.  Same for the following bar as well.
-Missing a C# in the right hand of bar 26 beat 1.
-That way of writing out bar 26 is kind of confusing.  Layer 1 is treating it as 3+2 whereas layer 2 is treating it as 2+3.  You should pick one so that it's easier to read that RH rhythm.
-I think there's still an An in bass of bar 27 (certainly somewhere) and the C# should definitely be higher than the preceeding An, not lower than it.
-Missing a C# in the RH of bar 27 and also there should still be a G# somewhere in the second half of that bar.
-Optional: Use Pipe Organ Patch is totally unnecessary in my opinion.  We're writing piano sheet music and it's not hard for someone to come up with that idea themselves if they want to do it.

Hopefully that helps but as per usual if you have any problems/further questions, do ask.

nacho2420

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Not sure where you want the top G# added in 1-3. You should specify octave numbers (i.e. G#4)

The caesura isn't correct when the timing of the track is still metered rests which is why I used 5/4 rather than a caesura

At meas 18-25 I don't know what else is missing. If you hear more voices feel free to let me know so I can add them.

I initially arranged this for piano with a pipe organ patch sound so that may be why you hear many missing layers as the harmonics are no longer reinforced. I added the changes you suggested so far and uploaded the changes.
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Libera

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Not sure where you want the top G# added in 1-3. You should specify octave numbers (i.e. G#4)

Just an octave above the current bass G#.  I never remember which number means which octave to be honest.

The caesura isn't correct when the timing of the track is still metered rests which is why I used 5/4 rather than a caesura

I don't really understand this since caesuras don't mean an exact time, but if you really want to keep it as a 5/4 bar then fair enough.

At meas 18-25 I don't know what else is missing. If you hear more voices feel free to let me know so I can add them.

It's not just things missing, it's also confusion of voices.  I don't have the time to write out those bars tonight, but some examples I can give of where something funny is going on are:
-Missing C# in bar 24.  This is the note that then moves onto the B# on beat 3 and then it moves onto a Bn in bar 25.
-The voice upper voice in the left hand of bar 18 sounds like it resolves down to a D#, rather than up a seventh.  (Though that higher D# sounds like it's there too, I'm not 100% what happens to those two lines afterwards.)
-Missing a Bn -> C# -> Bn movement in bar 20/21.
-Vocal line mixed with organ line in bar 21/22, along with the vocal line seeming to jump around octaves a lot.
-The E -> D# movement at the end of bar 24 is from a lower voice that seems to have been omitted before that beat.

Just generally speaking the whole thing sounds a lot thicker than just three lines moving, and I'm not sure the fact it's on an organ is causing all of that difference in texture.

Latios212

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Latios212

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Alright... I reached out to Nacho and he's been busy. He told me that we're free to edit the sheet or whatever's in the best interest of the community. I think we've got a really good base here so I've just gone through the sheet and made some edits for things I've noticed as well as Libera's comments above.

Most notably, I added thicker harmonies in m. 1-12 and 25-27. The lack of a full sound was most apparent there; it's not as much a bother in m. 13-24 because there's a lot more motion between independent voices to thicken the texture especially if pedal is used. Though I did add some harmonies here and there for that section as well.

I also struggled with the multiple voices in m. 18-25, although I tried to take into account everything Libera mentioned as well as a couple things that stood out to me. The biggest change is the editing of the top line (and the octaves under it) in m. 19-21. The vocal leap up in m. 21 is particularly important. It is worth noting that in m. 22 the vocal line dips below the other one, though it's still in its own layer in Finale. I also wasn't sure what to do with beat 4 of m. 24 but I think it's serviceable as is.

Along the way I fixed a few note alignment issues as well. I think this should be good for someone else to go through and give it a look now :)
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- Where's the D# on m5 RH beat 3 coming from? Not sure I hear it... unless it's supposed to be the vocal line, which I hear articulating the D# on beat 4, not beat 3.
- I hear another D# in m8 an octave below the one that's already there.
- Also hear a B in the chord on m11 LH beat 1.
- m24 RH Layer 2 beat 4 (E-D#) sounds like it should be an octave down, in the LH? (Actually sounds like it should start on beat 3.5 and be F#-E-D# an octave down.) If so, m24 could be made cleaner if Layer 2 beats 1-2 was just merged into Layer 1.
- m25 RH Layer 2 sounds like it should be an octave down too.
- Should the B# in m24 be a Cn instead? (chromatically descending C#-Cn-B)
- m26 RH beat 5 rest should be moved down; otherwise it looks like it's a rest for both layers.
- m27 RH second chord, change the A# to an An? The chord sounds atrocious otherwise. Also maybe write D# for the lower note instead of C#?
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Latios212

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- Where's the D# on m5 RH beat 3 coming from? Not sure I hear it... unless it's supposed to be the vocal line, which I hear articulating the D# on beat 4, not beat 3.
Yeah... moved it to beat 4

- Where's the D# on m5 RH beat 3 coming from? Not sure I hear it... unless it's supposed to be the vocal line, which I hear articulating the D# on beat 4, not beat 3.
- I hear another D# in m8 an octave below the one that's already there.
- Also hear a B in the chord on m11 LH beat 1.
Got these

- m24 RH Layer 2 beat 4 (E-D#) sounds like it should be an octave down, in the LH? (Actually sounds like it should start on beat 3.5 and be F#-E-D# an octave down.) If so, m24 could be made cleaner if Layer 2 beats 1-2 was just merged into Layer 1.
- m25 RH Layer 2 sounds like it should be an octave down too.
- Should the B# in m24 be a Cn instead? (chromatically descending C#-Cn-B)
Rewrote these couple measures to make use of two layers in the left hand to take these adjusted notes. I think 24 looks cleaner now too.

- m26 RH beat 5 rest should be moved down; otherwise it looks like it's a rest for both layers.
- m27 RH second chord, change the A# to an An? The chord sounds atrocious otherwise. Also maybe write D# for the lower note instead of C#?
Got these, except I think the C# should stay on that last chord. I definitely hear it in some voice (really hard to tell with this piece...) and I think it has too much of a diminished sound if we write in a D# instead.

Files updated (and leaving my approval)! Let's get this one done...
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mastersuperfan

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One more thing, can you move the rest in m26 RH up a bit? Like so:

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Otherwise I think it looks good.
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Latios212

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Re: [SW] Fire Emblem: Three Houses - "Garreg Mach Cathedral" by Nacho2420
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2021, 05:07:16 AM »

yessiree
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mastersuperfan

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Re: [SW] Fire Emblem: Three Houses - "Garreg Mach Cathedral" by Nacho2420
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2021, 05:09:22 AM »

the goddess approves
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there's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
The difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Zeta

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Re: [SW] Fire Emblem: Three Houses - "Garreg Mach Cathedral" by Nacho2420
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2021, 05:09:29 AM »

This submission has been accepted by mastersuperfan.

~Zeta, your friendly NSM-Bot
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