[GEN] Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball - "Toxic Caves" by LeviR.star

Started by Zeta, April 26, 2020, 09:39:19 AM

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Zeta

Submission Information:

Series: Sonic
Game: Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball
Console: Sega Genesis
Title: Toxic Caves
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: LeviR.star

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LeviR.star

Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Dekkadeci

The sheet music's tempo indication seems slightly faster than the video's.

I'm not sure whether your use of E instead of the video's A below Middle C in the right-hand second 16th notes of Beat 2 of Bars 1-2 and bars like them is merely for reaching the other right-hand notes easier, but your use of E instead of the video's A above Middle C in the right-hand third 16th note of Beat 2 of Bars 22 and 24 sounds more glaringly like an error.

I'm hearing the right-hand fourth 16th note of Beat 3 of Bar 28 as an E natural instead of an E flat.

A passage rather like Bars 35-36 comes back in Bars 39-40 of the video; I'm not sure whether you want to include that or not.

LeviR.star

Quote from: Dekkadeci on April 29, 2020, 09:16:26 AMThe sheet music's tempo indication seems slightly faster than the video's.

1.) I checked again; is ♩ = 124 what you had in mind?

Quote from: Dekkadeci on April 29, 2020, 09:16:26 AMI'm not sure whether your use of E instead of the video's A below Middle C in the right-hand second 16th notes of Beat 2 of Bars 1-2 and bars like them is merely for reaching the other right-hand notes easier, but your use of E instead of the video's A above Middle C in the right-hand third 16th note of Beat 2 of Bars 22 and 24 sounds more glaringly like an error.

2.) Thanks for catching that, Dekka; this sheet is nearly 2 years old, I must have forgotten to update that part.

Quote from: Dekkadeci on April 29, 2020, 09:16:26 AMI'm hearing the right-hand fourth 16th note of Beat 3 of Bar 28 as an E natural instead of an E flat.

3.) That line is a reflection of the patterns in m. 9 - 12; the pitch bends back and forth a little, but I'm sure that it's an E-flat.

Quote from: Dekkadeci on April 29, 2020, 09:16:26 AMA passage rather like Bars 35-36 comes back in Bars 39-40 of the video; I'm not sure whether you want to include that or not.

4.) There's so many lines layered upon each other there; I figured it would be best to have everyone invent a unique phrase for that part if someone ended up mentioning it.

Fixed the files for the time being.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Maelstrom

-First of all, I'm not sure where the E is coming from in b2.25 of m1 RH and the like. I hear an A, like b1.75, loud and clear. This happens every time this melody occurs, even in m21, EXCEPT m39.
-I don't hear any note at b1.5 in LH m6. I don't really think it's nessicary to capture the percussion rhythm when there's a melody line there already. This is the same where it occurs elsewhere.
-In m13 I hear no harmony, much less any note aside from the C in RH m13 b4 and the like. It is present in m 14 though
-m40 RH - this is completely different than you have written. I'd recommend giving it a 2nd look.
-m30+ RH. I kept looking at this and was sure it wasn't right to put a dotted 8th there because the tempo is really hard to parse when sight reading. Might I recommend making b3.5's 16th note into a staccatoed 8th? It'll more clearly show the end of beat 3.

Fix this and you've got a great sheet.

LeviR.star

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-First of all, I'm not sure where the E is coming from in b2.25 of m1 RH and the like. I hear an A, like b1.75, loud and clear. This happens every time this melody occurs, even in m21, EXCEPT m39.

I can't see any performer climbing up a 12th interval from the thumb in the span of three 16ths, let alone at a consistent ♩ = 124 tempo. Moving that A up to an E was the best way I saw to make this bearable.

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-I don't hear any note at b1.5 in LH m6. I don't really think it's nessicary to capture the percussion rhythm when there's a melody line there already. This is the same where it occurs elsewhere.

The 8th on beat 1.5 is actually there in the original, it's just softer and kinda tricky to hear over the Genesis's obnoxious percussion. I can put an accented staccato to sorta convey what's going on? Unless there's a better articulation for it ~

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-In m13 I hear no harmony, much less any note aside from the C in RH m13 b4 and the like. It is present in m 14 though

You sure? I may have oversimplified the patterns in those phrases (for the performers' sake), but the harmony is audible.

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-m40 RH - this is completely different than you have written. I'd recommend giving it a 2nd look.

This is what Dekka and I were talking about in the earlier posts. I can assure you I've given it a good look, but can you give me an idea of what you'd rather have those last four measures written as? Latios said he can pop in to offer his two cents regardless.

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-m30+ RH. I kept looking at this and was sure it wasn't right to put a dotted 8th there because the tempo is really hard to parse when sight reading. Might I recommend making b3.5's 16th note into a staccatoed 8th? It'll more clearly show the end of beat 3.

Ooh, good catch; yea, I can definitely do that.

I can fix the files once these points are addressed.



Here's one of the sources I used to transcribe this song:


I tried using AudioOverload to split the channels apart myself, but apparently the program doesn't like Genesis music.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Latios212

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-First of all, I'm not sure where the E is coming from in b2.25 of m1 RH and the like. I hear an A, like b1.75, loud and clear. This happens every time this melody occurs, even in m21, EXCEPT m39.
Quote from: LeviR.star on May 17, 2020, 01:34:23 PMI can't see any performer climbing up a 12th interval from the thumb in the span of three 16ths, let alone at a consistent ♩ = 124 tempo. Moving that A up to an E was the best way I saw to make this bearable.
It's actually not bad at all if you play ascending A-A-E with 1-3-5. That said, I don't have a problem with this being adjusted as you did, since it becomes trickier later when you have harmony on beat 2.75 (like in m. 12). But why is m. 4 written differently?

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-I don't hear any note at b1.5 in LH m6. I don't really think it's nessicary to capture the percussion rhythm when there's a melody line there already. This is the same where it occurs elsewhere.
Quote from: LeviR.star on May 17, 2020, 01:34:23 PMThe 8th on beat 1.5 is actually there in the original, it's just softer and kinda tricky to hear over the Genesis's obnoxious percussion. I can put an accented staccato to sorta convey what's going on? Unless there's a better articulation for it ~
I'm with Mael here; despite what's in the audio channel the pitch simply does not pop out there like beat 1 does on a normal listen and I would prefer that beat 1.5 be left out for that reason. If you really feel like you MUST include it, I would put an accent on the staccato beat 1 so that there's a clear differentiation that beat 1 is more noticeable.

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-In m13 I hear no harmony, much less any note aside from the C in RH m13 b4 and the like. It is present in m 14 though
Quote from: LeviR.star on May 17, 2020, 01:34:23 PMYou sure? I may have oversimplified the patterns in those phrases (for the performers' sake), but the harmony is audible.
Yeah I hear the harmony here, looks good to me as written.

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 10, 2020, 01:15:03 PM-m40 RH - this is completely different than you have written. I'd recommend giving it a 2nd look.
Quote from: LeviR.star on May 17, 2020, 01:34:23 PMThis is what Dekka and I were talking about in the earlier posts. I can assure you I've given it a good look, but can you give me an idea of what you'd rather have those last four measures written as? Latios said he can pop in to offer his two cents regardless.

Yeah... it changes up there. I would suggest replacing what you copied in for the RH and re-transcribe what sounds like the main voice (the twangy one, not really sure how to describe it...).

Also while I'm here:
- Would suggest making m. 30 beat 3.5 a staccato eighth instead of 16th for easier rhythmic reading (same with following measures)
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

Maelstrom

Briefly chiming in - I would caution against using split tracks (and any sort of midi rip in general) as a primary source of audio. Yeah, it might be easier to hear, but you loose its context in the original song. Not to say they can't be great tools for checking work, but like with LH m6 - that note might be there in the midi and split track, but it's not audible in the actual audio.

LeviR.star

Quote from: Latios212 on May 17, 2020, 02:45:00 PMIt's actually not bad at all if you play ascending A-A-E with 1-3-5. That said, I don't have a problem with this being adjusted as you did, since it becomes trickier later when you have harmony on beat 2.75 (like in m. 12). But why is m. 4 written differently?
I'm with Mael here; despite what's in the audio channel the pitch simply does not pop out there like beat 1 does on a normal listen and I would prefer that beat 1.5 be left out for that reason. If you really feel like you MUST include it, I would put an accent on the staccato beat 1 so that there's a clear differentiation that beat 1 is more noticeable.
Yeah I hear the harmony here, looks good to me as written.
Yeah... it changes up there. I would suggest replacing what you copied in for the RH and re-transcribe what sounds like the main voice (the twangy one, not really sure how to describe it...).

Also while I'm here:
- Would suggest making m. 30 beat 3.5 a staccato eighth instead of 16th for easier rhythmic reading (same with following measures)

Quote from: Maelstrom on May 18, 2020, 08:15:49 AMBriefly chiming in - I would caution against using split tracks (and any sort of midi rip in general) as a primary source of audio. Yeah, it might be easier to hear, but you loose its context in the original song. Not to say they can't be great tools for checking work, but like with LH m6 - that note might be there in the midi and split track, but it's not audible in the actual audio.

Addressed all of these points minus the comments about m. 40; I'm having trouble hearing the part Latios wants re-transcribed, and I really need to go to bed so I can get up early for work. Having talked with Lat about it over Discord, I'm deciding to leave it to you guys to re-do the RH in m. 39 - 40 if I'm not around before we update tomorrow, otherwise I will try to take it on myself once again.

The newest draft's files are up! Edit off of these if you need to.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Latios212

Here's what I'm suggesting for the RH of those last two measures: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5m7usk6sfkdh0k4/Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog%20Spinball%20-%20Toxic%20Caves.musx?dl=1

If you or someone else could edit that in (just the RH there since the articulations are all out of whack, and idk what happened to the LH glissando) then I'll sign off on this one and leave the rest to Maelstrom.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

LeviR.star

Quote from: Latios212 on May 20, 2020, 04:08:18 PMHere's what I'm suggesting for the RH of those last two measures: https://www.dropbox.com/s/5m7usk6sfkdh0k4/Sonic%20the%20Hedgehog%20Spinball%20-%20Toxic%20Caves.musx?dl=1

If you or someone else could edit that in (just the RH there since the articulations are all out of whack, and idk what happened to the LH glissando) then I'll sign off on this one and leave the rest to Maelstrom.

Changed the files with this one! The glissando disappeared because the bottom end of it was hooked onto one of the RH notes.

All good to go, unless there are other comments.
Check out my Youtube channel for remixes and original music! LeviR.star's Remixes

Also check out my piano arrangements here on my PA thread! LeviR.star's Arrangements

Maelstrom


Zeta

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