Dekkadeci's Replacements

[Dekkadeci]

Here's my replacement thread for this project:

Full Challenger Replacements

• "Battle with Meta Knight" (Kirby Super Star) .MUS Source

Significant Edits

• "Still More Fighting" "Fight On!" (Final Fantasy VII) (Originally arr. by Commander6) .MUS Source

[Dekkadeci]

My main concerns about my "Battle with Meta Knight" replacement:

• The slurs at the tops of Pages 3 and 4 either overlap with the header or need to be warped significantly in order to barely fit.
• Playback of ties to notes where glissandos start does not work, at least on Finale Notepad. I have tried replacing the ties, and that did not fix things.
• The glissando lines get in the way of accidentals, regardless of whether the word "gliss." is there.
• I believe the tuplet notes in Bars 18-19 are actually all the same length in the original, although the current version is close enough and does not cross the barline.
• I've currently kept the title as "Battle with Meta Knight" because some sources say that's the title (although not the GilvaSunner video I've linked as a source, which is why I'm concerned). The Kirby Super Star Ultra title is "Vs. Meta Knight" according to https://vgmdb.net/album/10970, but the KSSU version is subtly different from the KSS version in multiple places. I am currently unable to source KSS song titles.

For those previously complaining about the bassline in Bars 13-18, I checked again today and it turns out I previously transcribed it one octave too high. I believe the repeated 16th notes are achievable as long as you switch fingers.

[Static]

My main concerns about my "Battle with Meta Knight" replacement:

• The slurs at the tops of Pages 3 and 4 either overlap with the header or need to be warped significantly in order to barely fit.
• Playback of ties to notes where glissandos start does not work, at least on Finale Notepad. I have tried replacing the ties, and that did not fix things.
• The glissando lines get in the way of accidentals, regardless of whether the word "gliss." is there.
• I believe the tuplet notes in Bars 18-19 are actually all the same length in the original, although the current version is close enough and does not cross the barline.
• I've currently kept the title as "Battle with Meta Knight" because some sources say that's the title (although not the GilvaSunner video I've linked as a source, which is why I'm concerned). The Kirby Super Star Ultra title is "Vs. Meta Knight" according to https://vgmdb.net/album/10970, but the KSSU version is subtly different from the KSS version in multiple places. I am currently unable to source KSS song titles.

For those previously complaining about the bassline in Bars 13-18, I checked again today and it turns out I previously transcribed it one octave too high. I believe the repeated 16th notes are achievable as long as you switch fingers.

For the things above:

• Don't worry about all the formatting and spacing stuff, I can take care of that for you later.
• Yeah that's an issue with any Finale version. It's less noticable when the gliss is a very long distance over a short period of time, but if it isn't, then you hear the tied note clearly rearticulated. You might want to consider shortening the lengths of the glissandi, but up to you.
• Regarding m18-19, yes they are all the same length, which means that the triplet in m18 should be a 3:2.5 rhythm instead of 3:2 (and starting a bit earlier than beat 4)... That said, what you have is a close enough approximation, I think.
• We have the Marx battle theme on site currently with the title "Marx's Theme", so it would probably be best to be consistent with that and title the sheet "Meta Knight's Theme".
• The repeated 16ths are possible, though pretty demanding. I think it's fine to leave them in, since the performer can decide if they want to exclude some notes or not.

Some other stuff:

• All those 16th notes/rests in m1-4 and 9-12 would look a lot cleaner and be easier to read if they were just staccato 8th notes.
• Those 8th note octave hits like in m9 might sound better with the 5th in between, to give it some extra punch. Up to you though.
• For m24, I think "ad lib." would be more appropriate than rubato. Rubato implies stretching the overall time (with both hands), but ad lib. tells the performer to play the specific melodic line more freely (which makes more sense bc it's a typical rock or jazz solo).
• m24-31 LH: Beats 1-3 are beamed in 6/8, while the RH is beamed in 3/4... I would rewrite it like this, which not only matches the RH but removes all those staccatos and augmentation dots:
  
• m29 RH: Beat 1 sounds more like an 8th note triplet to me.

Once these things are addressed I'll fix up the formatting for you. Nice arrangement by the way, this song is quite a pain to capture on just a piano, but I think you really nailed it here.

[Dekkadeci]

For the things above:

• Don't worry about all the formatting and spacing stuff, I can take care of that for you later.
• Yeah that's an issue with any Finale version. It's less noticable when the gliss is a very long distance over a short period of time, but if it isn't, then you hear the tied note clearly rearticulated. You might want to consider shortening the lengths of the glissandi, but up to you.
• Regarding m18-19, yes they are all the same length, which means that the triplet in m18 should be a 3:2.5 rhythm instead of 3:2 (and starting a bit earlier than beat 4)... That said, what you have is a close enough approximation, I think.
• We have the Marx battle theme on site currently with the title "Marx's Theme", so it would probably be best to be consistent with that and title the sheet "Meta Knight's Theme".
• The repeated 16ths are possible, though pretty demanding. I think it's fine to leave them in, since the performer can decide if they want to exclude some notes or not.

Some other stuff:

• All those 16th notes/rests in m1-4 and 9-12 would look a lot cleaner and be easier to read if they were just staccato 8th notes.
• Those 8th note octave hits like in m9 might sound better with the 5th in between, to give it some extra punch. Up to you though.
• For m24, I think "ad lib." would be more appropriate than rubato. Rubato implies stretching the overall time (with both hands), but ad lib. tells the performer to play the specific melodic line more freely (which makes more sense bc it's a typical rock or jazz solo).
• m24-31 LH: Beats 1-3 are beamed in 6/8, while the RH is beamed in 3/4... I would rewrite it like this, which not only matches the RH but removes all those staccatos and augmentation dots:
  
• m29 RH: Beat 1 sounds more like an 8th note triplet to me.

Once these things are addressed I'll fix up the formatting for you. Nice arrangement by the way, this song is quite a pain to capture on just a piano, but I think you really nailed it here.

Adjusted everything except m29 RH, which I've still found to start with 8th note-16th note-16th note after listening to the source at 75% and 50% speed, and the not-necessarily-needing-to-be-adjusted m18-19 and 8th note octave hits in m9, etc. M9's already tough enough to play at full speed.

[Maelstrom]

FF7-Fight on!

• I don't think the gliss text on the glissando is nessicary, and it's really hard to read anyway, so I'd recommend removing it.
• If this is 12/8, and everything is beamed like 2 6/8 measures, then syncopated quarters like the 2nd one in m10 should be split into 8ths tied to 8ths to better show the beat
• m19- first 2nd layer RH chord should be a 2nd - G+A and the G resolves down to the F, like you have it, on beat 4. Also in m25
• Dropping the strings in m67-68 for the arpeggios is, imo, a terrible decision. You completely lose the resolution of that voice for some background elements. I'd highly recommend changing it.
• I'd recommend revisiting m53-56 again, this time using layers to incorporate all the strings and melody, because it's definitely doable.
• I don't hear a change in rhythm on m22 b10-12 LH
• Speaking of LH rhythms, I hear a few quarter+8th where you have dotted 8ths. Those are: m17 b7, m18 (all). Same for where this repeats.
• m32 b7-12 and the like need to be properly beamed, like m10. Same for m36
• m38, 42 - LH - b10-12 - I hear 3 8ths instead of quarter+8th
• m50, 58 - b7-12 the quarters here are an E, not an A. And beat 12 is a G, although on the other side of the A.
• m66 is similar, but b12 is a D to resolve into the C next measure
• If this were me, I'd add notes left and right to the LH to make more than just a single note the entire song, because that's kind of boring. However, this isn't my sheet, so do what you want.

[Dekkadeci]

Adjusted my "Fight On!" edit; my comments are below:

FF7-Fight on!

• I don't think the gliss text on the glissando is nessicary, and it's really hard to read anyway, so I'd recommend removing it.

I figured out how to remove it on Musescore so the Finale version also has the text gone.

• If this is 12/8, and everything is beamed like 2 6/8 measures, then syncopated quarters like the 2nd one in m10 should be split into 8ths tied to 8ths to better show the beat

Fixed that.

• m19- first 2nd layer RH chord should be a 2nd - G+A and the G resolves down to the F, like you have it, on beat 4. Also in m25

Managed to pull that off for you; it sounds convincing enough.

• Dropping the strings in m67-68 for the arpeggios is, imo, a terrible decision. You completely lose the resolution of that voice for some background elements. I'd highly recommend changing it.

Whenever I sing "Fight On!" (including before I made the first version of this edit), I actually preferentially sing the arpeggios. With that being said, I managed to figure out how to include the high strings while keeping most of the arpeggios (I dropped the least audible arpeggios). It definitely sounds cooler this way--good suggestion!

• I'd recommend revisiting m53-56 again, this time using layers to incorporate all the strings and melody, because it's definitely doable.

I actually managed to pull off all the strings and melody in Bars 53-60. Now they sound even cooler!

• I don't hear a change in rhythm on m22 b10-12 LH

You were right, so I fixed that.

• Speaking of LH rhythms, I hear a few quarter+8th where you have dotted 8ths. Those are: m17 b7, m18 (all). Same for where this repeats.

The only time I heard quarter + 8th note in those places instead of dotted quarter notes were when I set the source videos to 25% speed. That gave me significant doubt that the quarter + 8ths are really there.

• m32 b7-12 and the like need to be properly beamed, like m10. Same for m36

Fixed those, too.

• m38, 42 - LH - b10-12 - I hear 3 8ths instead of quarter+8th

I managed to hear the three 8th notes, too (with a different source video). Turns out I had to correct the left-hand notes of Bar 42, Beats 10-12. (That last A note there sounds like it's scooped into in the original.)

• m50, 58 - b7-12 the quarters here are an E, not an A. And beat 12 is a G, although on the other side of the A.

For Measure 50, I did hear both left-hand quarter notes there as E's, but I kept hearing Beat 12 as an A instead of a G, even when the music was at 50% or 25% speed. For Measure 58, I actually heard the 1st left-hand quarter note there as E and the 2nd left-hand quarter note as G. At least its Beat 12 was also a G.

• m66 is similar, but b12 is a D to resolve into the C next measure

I heard the Beat 7 left-hand quarter note as E there, but I kept hearing Beats 10-12 left hand as B quarter note - A 8th note, resolving into a G next measure. (The C's are a new line on top of the G.)

• If this were me, I'd add notes left and right to the LH to make more than just a single note the entire song, because that's kind of boring. However, this isn't my sheet, so do what you want.

I tried to stick more closely to the Commander6 original score, which uses a single-note line for the left hand the entire way through, but I did find the A-B-C-D electric guitar line in Bars 17-18 and 23-24 to be so loud that it was worth including.

My biggest concern about my current score is the collision of triplet beams in Beats 10-12 of Bar 68. I've tried flipping the right-hand stems, but the resulting right-hand rest positioning (regardless of whether the rest goes above or below) looks even uglier on Musescore, IMO. Ideally, I'd also like each slur in Bars 67-68 to span all right-hand triplets in those bars.

[Static]

Adjusted everything except m29 RH, which I've still found to start with 8th note-16th note-16th note after listening to the source at 75% and 50% speed, and the not-necessarily-needing-to-be-adjusted m18-19 and 8th note octave hits in m9, etc. M9's already tough enough to play at full speed.

After listening again, I can hear that rhythm more clearly now, and that makes sense for those hits. The changes you made all look great! I went ahead and made some formatting edits to your sheet, including spacing, increasing the copyright info size, and removing the word "gliss" as per Maelstrom's suggestion. You can check out the new file here, and if you're fine with the changes, feel free to upload it to the folder. I approve.

I tried to stick more closely to the Commander6 original score, which uses a single-note line for the left hand the entire way through, but I did find the A-B-C-D electric guitar line in Bars 17-18 and 23-24 to be so loud that it was worth including.

Just chiming in to say there's not really a limit on how much you can change - if you want to make more large structural edits to the sheet you could (just change it to a challenge replacement). Feel free to go crazy with it.

[Dekkadeci]

After listening again, I can hear that rhythm more clearly now, and that makes sense for those hits. The changes you made all look great! I went ahead and made some formatting edits to your sheet, including spacing, increasing the copyright info size, and removing the word "gliss" as per Maelstrom's suggestion. You can check out the new file here, and if you're fine with the changes, feel free to upload it to the folder. I approve.

The only thing I did to your new file before uploading it into the folder is moving the "ad lib." indication in Bar 27 back to Bar 24, but shrunk to size 10 font (I assumed you moved the indication because of text size issues, but the wonky-rhythm right-hand line starts in Bar 24).

...I actually uploaded it into both the "Approved" and "Arranged" folders.

[Latios212]

...I actually uploaded it into both the "Approved" and "Arranged" folders.

No need for that I removed the copy in the "Arranged" folder, leaving us with the "Approved" version as the one source.

The only thing I did to your new file before uploading it into the folder is moving the "ad lib." indication in Bar 27 back to Bar 24, but shrunk to size 10 font (I assumed you moved the indication because of text size issues, but the wonky-rhythm right-hand line starts in Bar 24).

This should be above the right hand part since it applies to that voice (and there's also more room there).

Anyway, thanks for doing this one, we really need it! Aside from the above, I have a few more comments after taking a look. The main things I have are:
- LH rhythm in m. 1-23: Without the context of the original percussion, the left hand part loses its drive - the three notes per 5/4 bar aren't enough to really ground the rhythm especially in places like m. 5-8. One thing I would suggest trying is simply re-striking the low C on beat 2. This would emphasize the beat that the song is based on.
- Repeated C's in m. 13-18: Yes, they may be technically doable... but it's prohibitively difficult. You could easily have alternating C's between the upper and lower octave. Also, beat 5 should be not connected to beat 4 via a shared beam.
- Dynamics: The only dynamics here are a mp at the beginning/end and a mf at m. 24. You can do more to highlight contrasts between different parts. For example, there's no indication that the chords in m. 5-8 should be emphasized more than the high 8va line. They could also use a crescendo. Other things you might want to consider are making m. 13 louder, a crescendo in m. 19, and a forte in m. 32.

Other smaller things:
- There are some minor visual tweaks that would be nice - I can take care of them for you. These include editing the page margins (the top is really big), giving the gliss. in m. 18 more room
- Why isn't m. 28 RH all in one layer? Regardless, the last tie should be flipped downwards.
- For our ease of navigation, please make sure the file name reflects the track title. "Kirby Super Star - Meta Knight's Theme" would work nicely here.

[Dekkadeci]

This should be above the right hand part since it applies to that voice (and there's also more room there).

Moved the "ad lib." direction to above the right-hand part of Bar 24.

- LH rhythm in m. 1-23: Without the context of the original percussion, the left hand part loses its drive - the three notes per 5/4 bar aren't enough to really ground the rhythm especially in places like m. 5-8. One thing I would suggest trying is simply re-striking the low C on beat 2. This would emphasize the beat that the song is based on.

With bassline melodies like Bars 1-4, I'm really not a fan of splitting them into more notes, and the finer note resolution there is actually running 16th notes. Thus, I've only re-struck the C 2 octaves below Middle C on Beat 2 in Bars 5-8 and Bars 20-23. (The source actually does put a percussion beat on Beat 2 instead of Beat 2.5 like I would have thought from the Kirby: Planet Robobot remix.)

- Repeated C's in m. 13-18: Yes, they may be technically doable... but it's prohibitively difficult. You could easily have alternating C's between the upper and lower octave. Also, beat 5 should be not connected to beat 4 via a shared beam.

Based on all those repeated 16th-note dyads and chords I've played in both hands at quarter note = 180 bpm, I really don't think the repeated C's (which can be played by different successive fingers instead of what I've done for the 16th-note chords) are prohibitively difficult. However, I have put in an easier version...but after testing on the piano, I've found that the B flat below Middle C sounds better than Low C (IMO) because of the lack of register change, replicating the original. The last note in each repeated-C segment has been replaced with A flat for ease of playing.

Broke the beams between Beats 4 and 5 in Bars 13-18, but I must warn that the default Musescore beaming put the beams there.

- Dynamics: The only dynamics here are a mp at the beginning/end and a mf at m. 24. You can do more to highlight contrasts between different parts. For example, there's no indication that the chords in m. 5-8 should be emphasized more than the high 8va line. They could also use a crescendo. Other things you might want to consider are making m. 13 louder, a crescendo in m. 19, and a forte in m. 32.

I was worried that you updaters wouldn't support different dynamics for each hand, but your words are encouraging enough that I've put different dynamics between left and right hands whenever the high 8va line is there (e.g. Bars 1 and 9). Can you please make sure they work in playback?

Added some crescendos in Bars 5-8 and Bars 18-19. I don't hear Bar 13 as louder than Bar 12, though, so I didn't make Bar 13 louder. Also, after listening to Bars 24-32, I don't hear Bar 32 as louder than any of the others there, so I didn't put a forte there.

For all new dynamics, can you please improve their positions? I don't like the Bar 19 dynamic positions, for example.

Other smaller things:
- There are some minor visual tweaks that would be nice - I can take care of them for you. These include editing the page margins (the top is really big), giving the gliss. in m. 18 more room

You can definitely fix those for me. There are quite a lot of things I can't do with Finale Notepad (and I've been adjusting that file alone since I submitted this theme for replacements).

- Why isn't m. 28 RH all in one layer? Regardless, the last tie should be flipped downwards.

Dunno how the right hand got pushed to Layer 2. I did manage to flip the tie downwards, though.

- For our ease of navigation, please make sure the file name reflects the track title. "Kirby Super Star - Meta Knight's Theme" would work nicely here.

Changed the name of the file.

[Latios212]

Okay, went ahead and made some edits!

- LH rhythm in m. 1-23: Without the context of the original percussion, the left hand part loses its drive - the three notes per 5/4 bar aren't enough to really ground the rhythm especially in places like m. 5-8. One thing I would suggest trying is simply re-striking the low C on beat 2. This would emphasize the beat that the song is based on.

With bassline melodies like Bars 1-4, I'm really not a fan of splitting them into more notes, and the finer note resolution there is actually running 16th notes. Thus, I've only re-struck the C 2 octaves below Middle C on Beat 2 in Bars 5-8 and Bars 20-23. (The source actually does put a percussion beat on Beat 2 instead of Beat 2.5 like I would have thought from the Kirby: Planet Robobot remix.)

Sure, that works since the other voices provide something of a rhythm in some places. Though would you be open to writing in beat 2 in m. 13-18 as well?

- Repeated C's in m. 13-18: Yes, they may be technically doable... but it's prohibitively difficult. You could easily have alternating C's between the upper and lower octave. Also, beat 5 should be not connected to beat 4 via a shared beam.

Based on all those repeated 16th-note dyads and chords I've played in both hands at quarter note = 180 bpm, I really don't think the repeated C's (which can be played by different successive fingers instead of what I've done for the 16th-note chords) are prohibitively difficult. However, I have put in an easier version...but after testing on the piano, I've found that the B flat below Middle C sounds better than Low C (IMO) because of the lack of register change, replicating the original. The last note in each repeated-C segment has been replaced with A flat for ease of playing.

Oh, I like that a lot!

- Dynamics: The only dynamics here are a mp at the beginning/end and a mf at m. 24. You can do more to highlight contrasts between different parts. For example, there's no indication that the chords in m. 5-8 should be emphasized more than the high 8va line. They could also use a crescendo. Other things you might want to consider are making m. 13 louder, a crescendo in m. 19, and a forte in m. 32.

I was worried that you updaters wouldn't support different dynamics for each hand, but your words are encouraging enough that I've put different dynamics between left and right hands whenever the high 8va line is there (e.g. Bars 1 and 9). Can you please make sure they work in playback?

Visual clarity for the performer in the PDF is always the most important thing, so if that's what's intended by all means go ahead and write different dynamics for the hands when there's an important contrast. Let me know if the playback isn't satisfactory and I'll try to tweak it some more.

Aside from the above... I adjusted the layout to space things out a bit more evenly. A couple more things I would like to change (but didn't yet) are:
- At the end, the half rest would be better written as two quarter rests
- I think F# makes more sense than Gb in m. m. 30 RH (chromatically ascending to the G)
- Writing in beat 2 in the LH of m. 13-18 as well since the rhythm is mostly absent in the beginning of the measures there

Let me know if everything's all good (and if the above few changes are okay for me to make) before I accept!

[Dekkadeci]

Aside from the above... I adjusted the layout to space things out a bit more evenly. A couple more things I would like to change (but didn't yet) are:
- At the end, the half rest would be better written as two quarter rests
- I think F# makes more sense than Gb in m. m. 30 RH (chromatically ascending to the G)
- Writing in beat 2 in the LH of m. 13-18 as well since the rhythm is mostly absent in the beginning of the measures there

Let me know if everything's all good (and if the above few changes are okay for me to make) before I accept!

Yep, everything's all good, and you can make all those changes. Tested writing in Beat 2 of the LH of Bars 13-18 in Finale Notepad and it actually sounded fine.

(Neat fact I found while transcribing Bars 27-33: until the glissando, all notes there are found in the C blues scale with added flattened supertonic.)

[Maelstrom]

Fight On!
Sorry to keep you waiting on this.
I really like how m67-68 AND M53-60 turned out. Great work.

> LH rhythms for m17 and 18, and m50-58
I'd like whoever checks this next to weigh in as well, because I still hear what I said. If they agree with you, then I'm fine with it.
Correction: the last note I hear in m66 RH is a B.
Here's what I hear there in full.

I've been using an album I downloaded ages ago for my source, but the first result on youtube pulled up the same notes I hear just fine.

There's a really easy solution to bar 68; just move the staves further apart. You've got space on the page, so you might as well.

[Dekkadeci]

Fight On!

Correction: the last note I hear in m66 RH is a B.
Here's what I hear there in full.

Looked at the image and I hope you mean m66 LH.

Listened to the bassline of Bar 66 in the original, including at 75%, 50%, and 25% speed, and I still hear the A-A-A-A-E-A-B-A I put down in the LH of Bar 66.

There's a really easy solution to bar 68; just move the staves further apart. You've got space on the page, so you might as well.

Had to move the staves of the Musescore version further apart in Bar 68 and recreate the .mus from that, since despite https://usermanuals.finalemusic.com/Finale2012Win/Content/Finale/Distances1.htm mentioning a "Staff tool", I can't find that tool in Finale Notepad.

[Latios212]

Meta Knight's Theme

Yep, everything's all good, and you can make all those changes. Tested writing in Beat 2 of the LH of Bars 13-18 in Finale Notepad and it actually sounded fine.

(Neat fact I found while transcribing Bars 27-33: until the glissando, all notes there are found in the C blues scale with added flattened supertonic.)

Sweet! Made those edits (also noticed that beat 2 in the RH of 13 would look better flipped) and am accepting now ^^