[NDS] Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time & Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness -

Started by Zeta, June 30, 2020, 06:01:57 PM

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Zeta

Submission Information:

Series: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon
Game: Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time & Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Darkness
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Don't Ever Forget
Instrumentation Piano Duet
Arranger: Nine Lives

[attachment deleted by admin]

NineLives


Latios212

A few overall comments before I look closely at the notes:
- Don't use 1/4, 2/4, 3/4 measures. Fermatas are your friends for places like the section transition at the end of page 1, and just include the pickup to the repeat section in the bar at the end instead of splitting the 4/4 into 3/4+1/4.
- The secondo part is very heavy sounding in some places - the notes are quite low for the intervals they make. You could definitely afford to raise it an octave (one or maybe even both hands), with small adjustments here and there if it starts to overlap the primo part.
- Page 1 is extremely sparse; you could bump some measures up a system.
- Game title should match what we have on site
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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turtle

NineLives

All right. I fixed up the above changes. I messed around a bit with the secondo part. Please tell me what you think of it!

mastersuperfan

So I don't know what the secondo RH looked like originally, but the adjusts to make it not overlap with the primo LH leave it sounding kind of awkward (some notes were lowered an octave while others weren't, so now the whole line sounds different). Do you happen to have a copy of the original file for comparison? Maybe having the secondo LH an octave lower is still a better alternative, or maybe there's a different way to fit the parts together.

(As an aside, I transcribed this piece a really, really long time ago so that my friends and I could play it together on band instruments... though I doubt I still even have the file at this point, lol)

Some other things for now:
- The second system on page 1 looks really crowded. Why not remove a measure from that system and add a measure to the second system on page 3?
- The sixteenths tied to eighths at the end of m9, m17, m25, and m33 should be written as dotted eighth notes instead. A rule of thumb is that it's rare for notes that are beamed together to be tied together.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Latios212

Quote from: mastersuperfan on July 31, 2020, 08:56:39 PMSo I don't know what the secondo RH looked like originally, but the adjusts to make it not overlap with the primo LH leave it sounding kind of awkward (some notes were lowered an octave while others weren't, so now the whole line sounds different). Do you happen to have a copy of the original file for comparison? Maybe having the secondo LH an octave lower is still a better alternative, or maybe there's a different way to fit the parts together.
Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6zo68nq5c9wzt7n/Pokemon%20Mystery%20Dungeon%20Explorers%20of%20Time%20and%20Darkness%20-%20Don%27t%20Ever%20Forget.musx?dl=1

I agree with MSF, the contour of the line is changed pretty drastically. My original suggestion was to raise the entire line an octave - were there concerns with it conflicting with the melody? I don't think there's a lot of overlap, and if there is we could possibly omit a note or two here and there or something like that.

Also a few other things as I started looking at the updated version:
- Rather than specifying rit/a tempo in the first system, probably better to just indicate rubato throughout (the timing is pretty loose)
- Like MSF said, the second system is quite cramped, move a measure out of it (you can keep doing that to make everything 3/system since you have an extra 2-measure system on page 3 right now)
- Overall I feel like the staccatos in this sheet don't really help very much. They seem a bit arbitrary and I think it would sound fine with the voices willed out especially if you're not indicating pedal use here.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

NineLives

All right. I updated the sheets without the octave raises for now until I figure something out. MSF suggested to replace the strings part with the harp part on measures 22 through 29 for the RH of Secondo, so I did that, which doesn't intersect the Primo's LH as much as it did if it were an octave higher, which isn't saying much, because it still mixes into if I were to raise Secondo's RH. Without being raised, it does mix in with its left hand in that same section, but that's much more easier to manage and keep sounding nice without having to do too much. I'm up for some more suggestions on how to make it work better, but this is what it is now. I'll mostly focus on the section mentioned before, since it's got the most going on for it.

Latios212

Quote from: Latios212 on August 01, 2020, 07:59:35 AMMy original suggestion was to raise the entire line an octave - were there concerns with it conflicting with the melody? I don't think there's a lot of overlap, and if there is we could possibly omit a note or two here and there or something like that.
Quote from: NineLives on August 02, 2020, 12:46:42 PMAll right. I updated the sheets without the octave raises for now until I figure something out.
Asking again - what specifically is your concern for having the second RH raised an octave? At a glance it looks just fine in most places.
- Looking at m. 6-13, the only part that overlaps is around beat 4 of m. 7/11 - you can easily lower the Bb in the left hand beat 3.75 down an octave
- Looking at m. 14-21, similarly the only part that looks awkward is the same Bb in a similar figure in m. 14/18
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

NineLives

Quote from: Latios212 on August 08, 2020, 08:16:37 AMAsking again - what specifically is your concern for having the second RH raised an octave? At a glance it looks just fine in most places.
- Looking at m. 6-13, the only part that overlaps is around beat 4 of m. 7/11 - you can easily lower the Bb in the left hand beat 3.75 down an octave
- Looking at m. 14-21, similarly the only part that looks awkward is the same Bb in a similar figure in m. 14/18
My whole concern was mostly the section I just talked about. The sections you're talking about, I already understood how those could be changed, but I wanted to focus on what section I felt was more in need of attention before I went to those parts. Here's what I have now: You said that most if the notes aside from the high B flat in the measures you mentioned would be fine, so I decided for Secondo RH that I'd bring down any notes the high B flat and above with a few exceptions to make it sound more consistent. I think I got something well settled out now, but tell me what you think.

Latios212

Sorry for the wait, this past month has been very busy for me :)

In regards to the above, it's looking better! One specific thing is, when primo left hand plays something on beat 1, that doesn't mean that they have to actually keep the note depressed for the whole measure - it's fine for secondo to play it. So what that means for places like m. 9 and 12 is that I would suggest putting the accompaniment back at its original position since it doesn't collide with the melody (the notes in the same range are played later).

Some comments on specific parts (most of what's not listed here or above looks alright, though I'll take a closer look when I check all the notes)
- m. 17 - similar comment as m. 9 above
- m. 22-29 has some somewhat odd-sounding octave jumps, not too sure at the moment what to do about them but let me know if you want some specific suggestions

Also some general comments:
- Use dotted quarter notes instead of quarter-tied-eighth when they call on beat 1 or beat 3
- Same with dotted halves that fall on beat 1
- Half rests in m. 21/37
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

NineLives

I've worked on the general comments, hopefully I didn't miss anything from them.
Quote from: Latios212 on September 05, 2020, 08:43:21 PMIn regards to the above, it's looking better! One specific thing is, when primo left hand plays something on beat 1, that doesn't mean that they have to actually keep the note depressed for the whole measure - it's fine for secondo to play it. So what that means for places like m. 9 and 12 is that I would suggest putting the accompaniment back at its original position since it doesn't collide with the melody (the notes in the same range are played later).
I don't quite understand how to execute what you're talking about here. May I get a visual of what you're saying?
Quote from: Latios212 on September 05, 2020, 08:43:21 PM- m. 22-29 has some somewhat odd-sounding octave jumps, not too sure at the moment what to do about them but let me know if you want some specific suggestions
I believe I had what you're talking about here in the piece before originally in the Secondo right hand, but decided to replace it with what's in there now since the same part's in there both times and that'd make it more active than just quarter notes in the Secondo part for the section.

mastersuperfan

Sorry for the wait on this one!

This looks pretty good! Some comments about the matter of re-arranging the secondo RH to fit:
- First of all, in places like m6/7 where you keep the secondo RH the same except you lower the last note (Bb) down an octave: I think it would be good to raise it back up wherever possible. This includes m6, m10, m15, m19, m31, and m35. On the other hand, in places like m7, m11, m14, m18, etc. I think raising the Bb back up would create some awkwardness between the secondo RH and the primo LH, so I'm fine with leaving it down the octave there.
- In m9 secondo RH, you can raise those dyads back up an octave with no problem. Same goes for m17, m25, and m33. If you want to make m17/33 a little more comfortable, you could also move the Bb on beat 2.75 from the secondo RH to the primo LH (i.e. have the primo LH play a Bb octave there, since it just played that Bb as the previous 16th note).
- I would recommend putting the m12 secondo RH notes (starting from beat 2.75) back up the octave. Yeah, it crosses over the Ab in the primo LH, but the Ab can be held by pedal so that the primo LH won't be in the way. Or, that line could be passed off from the secondo RH to the primo LH at beat 2.75. You could write it either way.

And some other stuff:
- For primo RH m4 beat 1, you can just use a dotted quarter instead of two tied notes.
- Do you think you could try fitting three systems on the first page? You can make space if you decrease the spacing between staves (down to 0.8") and systems, and if you move the 8va's and tempo markings closer to the systems. You can also try decreasing the page or staff size to make more space too. It's a tight fit, but I think it's a lot better than having a single system on the last page: (Ignore all the weird symbols; that's my version of Finale not cooperating with your files)
Spoiler

[close]
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

NineLives


mastersuperfan

Mainly formatting things left:
- You can also move m13 secondo RH (Db half note) up an octave too.
- Except for m22-25 (which should stay in bass clef), it would probably be easier to read the entire secondo RH in treble clef.
- You can move the 8va's a little down so that they're closer to the primo RH staff.
- You moved the copyright on the first page down too far; it should stay within the page margins. You should be able to fit it all in if you decrease the space between the staves within each system (there's quite a bit of free space between the staves right now).
- When there are separate dynamics for both hands, dynamics for the RH should go above the RH staff, not below. This is true for both primo and secondo. For primo LH and secondo RH dynamics, you can position them pretty close to the corresponding staff so that it's clear which one it's affecting.
- Also, for the primo RH dynamics in m5 and m21, you should move them to the next measure when the primo RH actually starts playing.
- https
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

NineLives