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Author Topic: SlowPokemon's Halloween Sheet - [SWITCH] Luigi's Mansion 3 - "2F: Mezzanine"  (Read 647 times)

SlowPokemon

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Then don’t accept it. I just don’t really think it’s appropriate that you won’t despite the fact that someone approved it and I’m not breaking any rules (and like I said, I think adding a rule about using simpler key signatures, which you’re basically enforcing here, would be a disgrace). I won’t be changing it and I don’t give my permission to change my existing arrangement.

As a user of this site long ago, seeing this arrangement would have really intrigued me and gotten me excited, and I know there are others like me out there. Sorry that you want me to bend on this, but I won’t.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 01:58:50 PM by SlowPokemon »
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SlowPokemon

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Just want to make sure you all see my edited post and think further about this.
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Maelstrom

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With that said, if you really think that having this piece in A# minor makes the musical ideas in this piece more clear for the reader, then you can leave it, and I'll approve.
As far as I can tell, this sounds like a somewhat conditional approval. We tend to do these on projects where our goal is to move faster, with the intention that another updater can come in while the arranger responds to this, and maybe weigh in as well. That said, I don't belive you satisfied the first part of this conditional. By your own admission,
... it’s just that I’m just always going to advocate for everyone who plays the piano to challenge themselves outside of their comfort zones occasionally.
This is certainly an argument for your case, but one antithetical to static's approval condition. Again, I fully believe there is a time and place for A#m, but every single accidental in this pieces screams that this is not the time and makes the musical ideas more obscured to the performer, rather than clearer.

SlowPokemon

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You know...for musicians you guys are awfully conservative
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Sebastian

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I'm not trying to throw a wrench in the works, but I do have a suggestion and a few thoughts.

@updaters:
I understand where you guys are coming from, especially as a performer myself; however, I believe Slow is right concerning his argument of arranger discretion, especially when it comes to something as trivial as a key signature. Additionally, Slow is right when he says that Bb minor is not generally accepted in the musical community. Forcing someone to write their song in a key that is not generally accepted is ridiculous in my opinion. As an arranger, he should have the choice to choose the key signature for something as ambiguous and/or preferential as this.

What about a compromise? Slow, would you be willing to add a second page to the sheet? Surely we could tack on a second page and label something along the lines of "easier rendition," or "alternate key." Honestly, I know people that find flats easier, and people that find sharps easier, so I would be hesitant to say something like "easier version" as it pertains to the flats version.

Thoughts, updaters?
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SlowPokemon

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Honestly, that’s at least a step in the right direction. My point isn’t that one is more valid than the other, it’s the exact opposite: both are equally valid.
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Latios212

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Then don’t accept it. I just don’t really think it’s appropriate that you won’t despite the fact that someone approved it and I’m not breaking any rules (and like I said, I think adding a rule about using simpler key signatures, which you’re basically enforcing here, would be a disgrace).
To be clear, I did not say that I would refuse to accept this without a keysig change - I haven't decided that for myself personally, although I know for a fact that others would object to it. I am not advocating for a rule about key signatures here.

I was more trying to point out the fact that instead of continuing the dialogue, you've deliberately ignored much of the feedback on this topic including everything after this post. That is the deal breaker to me; when someone refuses to respond to concerns others have raised. I am sorry if you feel like there are too many posts disagreeing with you, but something like this isn't resolved by dismissing what others have said.

Getting back to the initial point here, I agree that A#m is not incorrect here and can provide instructive benefit by exposing performers to a number of sharps they're not used to. But, as others have mentioned, the goal of NinSheetMusic is not to be instructive; it's to provide people sheets so they can play the video game music that they love...
As a user of this site long ago, seeing this arrangement would have really intrigued me and gotten me excited, and I know there are others like me out there.
...and a key signature like this can be an unnecessary roadblock.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 02:30:35 PM by Latios212 »
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(just saw Seb's post; I'm at work now and will check back here later)
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SlowPokemon

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I’m not ignoring the feedback, it’s more like I’ve said everything I possibly have to say about it and people just keep posting variations and complications and obfuscations on the idea “this is easier and better” which is genuinely what it all comes back to.

To be clear, I said Seb’s idea was a step in the right direction, but I’m not going to do that either, because it’s absurd to ask people to submit two arrangements (I think we can all agree there). At this point I’m genuinely going to either have it accepted or not, because this week I’m in Michigan dealing with my grandmother’s funeral and post-death arrangements (thanks 2020) so I don’t really have time to do much in the way of big changes anyway.
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Sebastian

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Just for clarity's sake on my part, I was suggesting adding a page to the current arrangement, not submitting two sheets. Basically this: copy/paste the arrangement to a second page in the existing finale file, change the key, label that second page as an alternate version with the key being the only difference, and submit it as one arrangement (both pages being included in a singular arrangement/file).
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LeviR.star

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If it's okay that I interject, I missed something along the way here: what exactly is the issue with B-flat minor in the "musical community" being referenced here? Is its scale, across different instruments, just more difficult to play than that of the other minor scales?
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Static

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This will be my last post on the subject since I don't really have much more to say, but something here kind of bothered me.

Then don’t accept it. I just don’t really think it’s appropriate that you won’t despite the fact that someone approved it and I’m not breaking any rules (and like I said, I think adding a rule about using simpler key signatures, which you’re basically enforcing here, would be a disgrace). I won’t be changing it and I don’t give my permission to change my existing arrangement.

As a user of this site long ago, seeing this arrangement would have really intrigued me and gotten me excited, and I know there are others like me out there. Sorry that you want me to bend on this, but I won’t.

The thing is, changing the key here has nothing to do with your arrangement itself - we aren't asking you to change notes or chord voicings or any actual arrangement techniques that you used when writing this out. We're merely asking that you make it easier to read.

You might have gotten really intrigued by seeing something like this, but as I've said like 2-3 times already, most users of this site are not trained musicians or in training or music theorists. Our sheets are not meant to challenge our reader's ability to interpret music theory concepts, they're meant to convey the music clearly so that anyone can just find a sheet and play it without thinking too hard about reading it. Working on the music itself - the phrases and notes and dynamics - those are the most important to work on. It's a noble goal to try and educate a bunch of random people on this stuff, and I really see where you're coming from, but it really isn't within our scope here and I don't think it should be.

Music notation are just that - notation. What matters is the audio that's produced from said notation. If you go ahead and add a 2nd page with the same song in Bb minor, I guarantee you most people would just read that one - why go through the headache to play the A#m one?

You're free to still refuse of course, but I just don't understand why this needs to be written like this.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 03:32:40 PM by Static »
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Sebastian

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Just wanted to mention, I made a reading mistake. I made the wrong assumption that the updaters were asking Slow to write in a key that was not included in the normal, common set of key signatures.

With that said, I do agree that Bb minor would be significantly easier to read. This is a great sheet, Slow, and I'm looking forward to its acceptance.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:51:54 PM by Sebastian »
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LeviR.star

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If you go ahead and add a 2nd page with the same song in Bb minor

To add on to what Static's saying here -- because it sounds like you're busy dealing with personal life obligations at the moment, a simple second page doesn't sound like something the updaters would be opposed to adding themselves, especially since the arrangement's in such a great state. I'm not one to say which key the performers would rather read it in, but having both is a good idea in my book, and if it's essential to the sheet, the staff responsible for accepting it should be able to help you in your time of need.

Though I don't appreciate your personal attacks on the updaters, I understand your intentions, Slow, and agree with Static that it's a noble gesture. Having both A# and B-flat minor variations isn't a change to your arrangement, it's just an alternative for those who aren't skilled enough to play in the former.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 05:20:21 PM by Static »
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Static

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Oops I accidentally edited your post instead of replying... but now for a reply:

Though I don't appreciate your personal attacks on the updaters, I understand your intentions, Slow, and agree with Static that it's a noble gesture. Having both A# and B-flat minor variations isn't a change to your arrangement, it's just an alternative for those who aren't skilled enough to play in the former.
Just to be crystal clear here - I'm not arguing that A#m is harder to read; I'm arguing that it takes more time to read.
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