[SW] Paper Mario: The Origami King - "Vellumental Battle" by Greg

Started by Zeta, December 03, 2020, 07:27:45 PM

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Zeta

Submission Information:

Series: Paper Mario
Game: Paper Mario: The Origami King
Console: Nintendo Switch
Title: Vellumental Battle
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Greg

[attachment deleted by admin]



mastersuperfan

This track is amazing.

Some small things, first up:
- Beat 1.25 (the second note) of m5/41 should be E# instead of En.
- The second half of m6/42 should be written with naturals and sharps instead of flats and double flats because it's ascending chromatically.
- I would suggest adding double barlines at the beginning of m23 and m31.
- For patterns like LH beat 4 of m33-39, the two tied sixteenths should be written as an eighth instead.

And now bigger things:
- A lot of the time, you only have the RH playing notes, which really takes away a lot of the energy of this track because it makes the melody sound weak and overpowered by the LH chords. I would suggest adding either harmonies (improvise your own) or octaves in certain places to make the RH line stronger, particularly m9-10, m15-20, m34-40, and m43-47. I would suggesting add harmonies/chords in m9-10, octaves to m15-16/19-20, harmonies to m17-18, octaves (maybe with some chord harmonies too) in m33-40, and so on.
- Those consecutive 16th notes in m15-20 LH are nowhere near playable. Can you try changing that part to something else?
- I like the chords in m21-30 LH, but without the driving rhythmicity you had in the LH before m21, m21-30 (which should be the most climactic part of the track) really loses a lot of its impact. Try finding a way to merge a similar rhythmic LH pattern with the chords you have in there now.
- In m45-48 LH, I would just suggest using something similar to what you have on the first page instead of what you have now. To play this 16th-note line while sustaining the whole note, you'd have to pedal (which would sound terrible for the whole 16th-note line), and the 16th-note line just isn't as harmonically or rhythmically important as the chords you had previously.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Greg

Thanks for the feedback, you really pinpointed some vague misgivings I had about this sheet.


With respect to the bigger items:
  • Added stuff to most of these: omitted octaves in 15-16 and 19-20 due to changes in the LH which make it less overpowering. Not entirely happy with 35-36 and would appreciate suggestions there.
  • Yeah, I forgot to change this to something playable. Should be good now.
  • I tried some stuff here to add notes matching with drumbeats (mostly). Considering removing the bottom note of the LH chords now (which overlap with the 8th note pattern). I'm also not entirely sure how playable it is: it seems possible to me, but I don't have access to a piano to really try it at the moment.
  • I replaced this with something matching the drumbeat, since the LH more or less consists of the 16th note line with long held chords, which isn't much to work with. I think it sounds better now personally.

mastersuperfan

Sorry for the delay on getting back to you. This looks much better!

The main thing is the LH in m23-30: it's much better than before, but the problem now is that the chords are really muddy in such a low register. I also feel like when the eighth note part is on the bottom, the motion doesn't stick out as much as I'd like it to because it's so low. I wonder if it's possible to put the eighth notes above the chords/quarter notes, although I'm not sure it would be playable. Maybe play around with that idea, and if it doesn't work, at least try to thin the chords a bit so they don't sound so muddy.

Other feedback:
- For m9/m45/m47, you might consider adding grace notes leading down to beat 3 to simulate the sliding violin in the original.
- In m17-18 RH, I would move the eighth rests back down to the center of the staff since Layer 2 is so low.
- I think m19-20 RH would probably be better written in bass clef (except for m20 beat 4).
- Finale likes to break eighth note beams when grace notes are involved... I'd recommend manually rebeaming m25 RH back into groups of four.
- I'd add staccatos to m33/m34/m37/m38 RH beat 1.
- For m35-36 RH, I'd suggest deleting the tied 16ths on beats 2 and 4 (e.g. leave the 16ths on beats 1.75/3.75 as isolated, untied notes). It'd make those measures look less cluttered.
- Hmm, the quarter note LH rhythm in m21-22 feels like a bit of a sudden momentum break, so I wonder if adding eighth notes to the LH would make it better... but if you're intending for that phrase to be a buildup to the climax in m23-30, I think the quarter notes work too.
- Not sure I'm a fan of having B's on the bottom of all the dyads in m39 beats 3-4... maybe try other notes instead for some of them?
- IMO I think m34 beat 1 and m38 are not powerful enough when the chord is not outlined by an octave. I would suggest doubling the top note below, either by adding it on top of what you have or (probably more playable) changing one of the notes you have to it.
- For m40 RH beats 3-4, you might consider doubling the top note an octave down to end the phrase strongly.

This one's getting there! Really excited to see how it turns out in the end.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Greg

Files have been updated. Some notes:
  • LH in beat 4 of m.36 was straight-up wrong, should be fixed.
  • I opted not to add grace notes in m9/m45/m47: couldn't really get anything that didn't sound awkward.
  • Personally I prefer m21-22 LH as currently written, since the original sort of does the same thing.
  • m40 RH I opted to only double the top note on the last note in the measure.
Thanks as always for the feedback.

Static

This is a really solid arrangement, nice work. I just have a few more technical things:

  • That chromatic line in m6/42 I think could be spelled in a much clearer way:
    Spoiler

    Usually when writing chromatic lines, I think it's best to try to pick as many notes as possible that are diatonic to whatever key you're in. Spelling it this way also eliminates the use of multiple of the same letter (like En and E# in the same chord as you currently have it), it just makes things a bit less confusing.
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  • Going off of what I said above, the Abs and Gbs in m7-12, 43-47 specifically would be better spelled as F#s and G#s because of how the notes resolve in the melody (Fx to G#, G# to A). Abs are fine in m13 because in this case, it's part of an Fm chord (new idea from the stuff before it).
  • m18 LH beat 4 should probably just be written as a staccato 8th note since it's on the beat, just makes things a bit easier to read.
  • You have slurs in m15-16, 19-20, but not in 33-34 or 37-38 even though it's the same part.
  • Did you mean the fff in m28 to be hidden? Just wanted to make sure.
  • Those G#s in m36 LH should be Abs
  • The bottom of page 1 seems a bit too empty, you should space out those systems a bit more. You might also want to play around with the measure distribution to make it fit evenly on 4 pages, but ultimately what you have currently is fine too.
  • And now the bane of every arranger's existence... most of your text (page numbers, copyright, etc.) is outside the page margins.

Greg

Everything should be taken care of. I realized I was using a really old version of the NSM template (hence the margin issues) so I just copied everything to the newest template and rearranged the measures accordingly.

mastersuperfan

- Ouch, m19-22 does not look good cramped into a single system. For measure distribution per system, I might suggest something like... m19-21, m22-25, m26-29, and then the rest are three-measure systems except m42-45 which is another four-measure system. The obvious downside is that you no longer have the four-measure phrases m23-26 and m27-30 neatly packaged as four-measure systems, but I think it's a better alternative to how cramped m19-22 is right now. You can try messing around with other options too if you'd like.
- m23-30: I think I would remove the thirds from all the Layer 2 triads and just make them dyads. I think it's the best way to remove the muddiness of the sound while preserving the powerful effect. Otherwise, I think this part is good!

And then some spacing stuff:
- m15/17/19 RH: I would re-position the dynamics and move them down a bit more so they're not so close to touching the RH notes.
- m19-22 could use a little more breathing room between the staves; the RH slur is nearly touching the LH.
- The m22 RH Layer 2 beat 3 quarter rest should be moved up a bit, maybe to about here-ish (ignore the fact that the staccato positioning is messed up in this image):
Image

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Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on February 11, 2016, 03:00:36 PMthere's also a huge difference in quality between 2000 songs and 2010 songs
Quote from: Latios212 on February 11, 2016, 03:29:24 PMThe difference between 2000 songs and 2010 songs is 10 songs.

Static

Wow I got sniped by msf just as I was gonna post lol

Well you got everything I was gonna say anyway, but one last thing: the Gb in m10 should be F# since it's ascending chromatically

Greg

Thanks, took care of all that stuff. (I opted to instead put m7-10 into a single line to preserve the phrasing in m23-26: I think it looks fine (definitely less cramped then before), but then I also thought it looked fine before so maybe I'm wrong lmao)

Static

Well this gets an approval from me, just move the copyright/url textbox down a bit. It seems a bit too high up, and it would also allow you to space out the systems on page 1 a bit more. You could also move the systems on page 2 down, there's a lot of empty space on the bottom.

Greg

So I may have exported the PDF on A4 instead of letter paper size, whoops. Fixed!

Latios212

Just glancing and this is looking pretty nice! A few things:
- I think the E# in m. 5/41 might be better spelled as Fn
- Measure 19 through beat 3 of 20 might be better in bass clef in the right hand
- There's no dynamic at the end of the crescendo in m. 22 - might want to show the dynamic in 23
- Minor thing, but when there's only grace note I prefer it to only have one flag (i.e. a small 8th note instead of a 16th note)
- m. 45/47 should use G# like other places
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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