[GCN] Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness - "Cipher Admin Theme" by Kricketune54

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon XD: Gale of Darkness
Console: Nintendo GameCube
Title: Cipher Admin Theme
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Kricketune54

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kricketune54]

Add this to the current random grab bag of XD tunes onsite...

This one is weird in that it's mislabeled all over online.  I think it stems from a mistake someone made when uploading the XD OST years ago, and since then, you sometimes see it called "Gonzap's Theme".  Other times, "Cipher Admin Theme".

I think it's weird to put the word Theme after, and it doesn't make since to call it Cipher Admin because people might think this is the battle theme for fighting Cipher Admins.  So I have labeled it as "Cipher Admin Encounter", because this is the theme that plays when you encounter them in the game's story.

If you think it should be referred to as Cipher Admin Theme or Cipher Admin, I will fix it but this is my defense and attempt at setting the record straight.

Edit 4/8/2021: lowered the held C in the LH m9-12: figured it made sense to have that sustained instead of conflicting with the main LH layer.

[Kricketune54]

Fixed some beam stuff I missed, also fixed staccato notes based off feedback on my other submission. 

One thing I'm wondering: could/should this be condensed to 3 two bar repeats?

[Static]

Well first of all, I'm definitely not the person who would know anything about Pokémon titles, so hopefully Latios/msf/etc. can chime in... But I do know a thing or two about notes so I'll look at those for you:

• You don't need the repeat sign at the start when the entire piece repeats like this. You only put a forward repeat if it starts somewhere in the middle of the piece.
• I hear the chord accompaniment a bit differently in m4-8:
  
  That organ is kinda tough to hear clearly, so maybe someone else hears it a bit differently. However, I do hear the melody going to Ab instead of Eb on m6 beat 3.5
• Since the piece uses a sort of blues scale, the #4/b5 are interchangeable. You can use one or the other depending on how it fits in with the harmony and melody, so you'll notice I've switched between the two occasionally.
• Also note that because the 2nd layer drops out at the end of m6/8, the 8th rest can move back to its normal position.
• Speaking of which, the 8th rests in m7/9 Layer 2 aren't aligned.
• m9-12 should all be harmonizes as sus2 chords. So m9 beat 2 would be Ab-Bb-Eb, m10 beat 4.5 would be C-D-G, etc.
• I also hear the bassline a bit differently. Beat 4.5 of m6/8 sound like a low Bn/Cb to me.
• The bassline from m9-12 is also off, I just hear this:
  
  However, to get that droning C in there, you could put it as a tied half note at the start of each of those measures.

I've attached copies of the files here for you with these changes and some additional spacing adjustments. If they look good to you, feel free to edit the submission with them.

Fixed some beam stuff I missed, also fixed staccato notes based off feedback on my other submission. 

One thing I'm wondering: could/should this be condensed to 3 two bar repeats?

Forgot about this, but no, I think that's kind of annoying to read. I also like that the full 12 bars takes up the entire page so there isn't a lot of empty space.

[Kricketune54]

Well first of all, I'm definitely not the person who would know anything about Pokémon titles, so hopefully Latios/msf/etc. can chime in... But I do know a thing or two about notes so I'll look at those for you:

With a lack of a GilvaSunner/etc. rip the titles for a few of XD's tracks seem all over the place.

• I hear the chord accompaniment a bit differently in m4-8:
  

Yeah I should've acknowledged I did hear the Eb in there but I had taken it out because I thought it was to much jumping around the held note.  At LH m6 and 8 beat 4.5  I had heard the G lower and put it in the staff, but for the sake of the chords I understand putting in the RH

• Since the piece uses a sort of blues scale, the #4/b5 are interchangeable. You can use one or the other depending on how it fits in with the harmony and melody, so you'll notice I've switched between the two occasionally.

I'm sorry, I don't really know what this is saying and to which measures it applies to.  Unless it's just about the B natties and Cb's.  I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable when it comes to music theory. 

• m9-12 should all be harmonizes as sus2 chords. So m9 beat 2 would be Ab-Bb-Eb, m10 beat 4.5 would be C-D-G, etc.

When the chord is sus!!!  Sounds good.

• I also hear the bassline a bit differently. Beat 4.5 of m6/8 sound like a low Bn/Cb to me.

I relistened, couldn't tell if it went down, but I'll take your word on this

• The bassline from m9-12 is also off, I just hear this:
  
  However, to get that droning C in there, you could put it as a tied half note at the start of each of those measures.

I disagree with this.  There's a lot going on there but with audio stretch I'm making out those bass synth notes as I had.  I am open that I didn't hear everything correctly though. 



Edited your files a bit but resubmitted

[Static]

I'm sorry, I don't really know what this is saying and to which measures it applies to.  Unless it's just about the B natties and Cb's.  I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable when it comes to music theory.

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to
 

I disagree with this.  There's a lot going on there but with audio stretch I'm making out those bass synth notes as I had.  I am open that I didn't hear everything correctly though. 

I can't make out the part you have (at least for beats 1-3), but I still do hear the Bb-C-Bb motion from beat 3.5-4.5 of all four of those measures. Hopefully someone else can weigh on this part.
Anyway, if you're going with this bassline, make sure the layers are aligned (the whole notes are too far to the right). You can fix that by just deleting and re-entering the note.

[Kricketune54]

Yes, that is exactly what I was referring to
 I can't make out the part you have (at least for beats 1-3), but I still do hear the Bb-C-Bb motion from beat 3.5-4.5 of all four of those measures. Hopefully someone else can weigh on this part.
Anyway, if you're going with this bassline, make sure the layers are aligned (the whole notes are too far to the right). You can fix that by just deleting and re-entering the note.

Okay, I hear the C-Bb-C motion now; I still hear a G-C-G, or a G-Bb-C-G for beats 1-2.  Resubmitted, fixed the layers

[Static]

Looks good, I will approve now

[Libera]

I can't make out the part you have (at least for beats 1-3), but I still do hear the Bb-C-Bb motion from beat 3.5-4.5 of all four of those measures. Hopefully someone else can weigh on this part.
Anyway, if you're going with this bassline, make sure the layers are aligned (the whole notes are too far to the right). You can fix that by just deleting and re-entering the note.

It's really hard to hear at the normal octave but if you put it up I think it's reasonably clear.  I'm happy to for it to stay in.

Other feedback:

-The Gn on beat 4.5 of bar 6 and 8 sounds like a Gb to me.
-I hear an additional Bb with the Ab and C on beat 4.5 of bars 5 and 7..
-I don't really hear the Ebs at the top of the chords on beat 1, 1.5 and 2.5 of bars 5-8.  They sound like Fs to me.
-Especially if you take the above feedback, I think you could ditch layer 1 entirely in bars 5-8  (changing the final three chords in 6/8 to the other layer).  I think it'd look a lot cleaner this way, and I don't think the held F adds much really. 
-It won't be necessary anymore if you take the above feedback, but the tie is intersecting the accidental in bar 5 and 7.  Maybe you can bend it up more so that it misses?
-Title, url/copyright and game name are all misaligned horizontally.
-Systems aren't correctly aligned to the left margin.

[Kricketune54]

It's really hard to hear at the normal octave but if you put it up I think it's reasonably clear.  I'm happy to for it to stay in.

I'm a little confused by this feedback: are you saying you hear at as I do/as I have it and that I should bump it up an octave?

-The Gn on beat 4.5 of bar 6 and 8 sounds like a Gb to me.

Can you give this another listen? I am pretty sure this is a G; it's so buried and the organ is so abrasive that it comes off as a very flat G from my interpretation.

-I hear an additional Bb with the Ab and C on beat 4.5 of bars 5 and 7..

I tried and tried and could not hear this.

-I don't really hear the Ebs at the top of the chords on beat 1, 1.5 and 2.5 of bars 5-8.  They sound like Fs to me.
-Especially if you take the above feedback, I think you could ditch layer 1 entirely in bars 5-8  (changing the final three chords in 6/8 to the other layer).  I think it'd look a lot cleaner this way, and I don't think the held F adds much really.

I also do not hear this, it sounds to me as if the only F other than the held trumpet is the bassline.  In fact, as I listen again, I'm really not hearing a Eb at the top either but rather just the C and Ab on those beats as I had originally.  I guess as a means of deviating from the original transcribed F, I could just add it to the 1, 1.5 and 2.5 of bars 5-8 as recommended.

 

-It won't be necessary anymore if you take the above feedback, but the tie is intersecting the accidental in bar 5 and 7.  Maybe you can bend it up more so that it misses?
-Title, url/copyright and game name are all misaligned horizontally.
-Systems aren't correctly aligned to the left margin.

I'm not sure if I can do anything about the tie with notepad.  I'll do the best I can with regards to the other horizontal alignment stuff but with Notepad I'm just eyeballing.

Do you have any ideas/issues with the song name on this?

[Libera]

I'm a little confused by this feedback: are you saying you hear at as I do/as I have it and that I should bump it up an octave?

I mean I think it's fine as it is.

Can you give this another listen? I am pretty sure this is a G; it's so buried and the organ is so abrasive that it comes off as a very flat G from my interpretation.
I tried and tried and could not hear this.
I also do not hear this, it sounds to me as if the only F other than the held trumpet is the bassline.  In fact, as I listen again, I'm really not hearing a Eb at the top either but rather just the C and Ab on those beats as I had originally.  I guess as a means of deviating from the original transcribed F, I could just add it to the 1, 1.5 and 2.5 of bars 5-8 as recommended.

I had another listen and I'm still hearing all of these as I said.  Here's a picture of bars 5-6 with my suggested changes:

Spoiler

You cannot view this attachment.

[close]

The Gb on beat 4.5 of bar 6/8 is very clear to me.  The Bb on beat 4.5 of bar 5/7 is less audible, but I hear it as descending from the Cb.  I think it also makes sense for it to be another three note chord there.  For the Gb, I think it's easiest to see the lower two notes as parallel minor thirds (Eb -> Dn - > Eb + Gb -> Fn -> Gb).  When I listen to these 2/4 bars as you currently have them it sounds off compared to the original.

I'm not sure if I can do anything about the tie with notepad.  I'll do the best I can with regards to the other horizontal alignment stuff but with Notepad I'm just eyeballing.

I can fix these for you if needed.  There are also some other miscellaneous things that need fixing like the tie in bar 10 that I can fix.

Do you have any ideas/issues with the song name on this?

I have absolutely no idea.  I'll ask Latios.

[Latios212]

This one is weird in that it's mislabeled all over online.  I think it stems from a mistake someone made when uploading the XD OST years ago, and since then, you sometimes see it called "Gonzap's Theme".  Other times, "Cipher Admin Theme".

I think it's weird to put the word Theme after, and it doesn't make since to call it Cipher Admin because people might think this is the battle theme for fighting Cipher Admins.  So I have labeled it as "Cipher Admin Encounter", because this is the theme that plays when you encounter them in the game's story.

If you think it should be referred to as Cipher Admin Theme or Cipher Admin, I will fix it but this is my defense and attempt at setting the record straight.

Do you have any ideas/issues with the song name on this?

I have absolutely no idea.  I'll ask Latios.

Sorry, I'm completely clueless when it comes to the GameCube games What you said makes sense, so I'll defer to your judgement unless anyone else has any input.

[Kricketune54]

I mean I think it's fine as it is.

I had another listen and I'm still hearing all of these as I said.  Here's a picture of bars 5-6 with my suggested changes:

Spoiler

You cannot view this attachment.

[close]

The Gb on beat 4.5 of bar 6/8 is very clear to me.  The Bb on beat 4.5 of bar 5/7 is less audible, but I hear it as descending from the Cb.  I think it also makes sense for it to be another three note chord there.  For the Gb, I think it's easiest to see the lower two notes as parallel minor thirds (Eb -> Dn - > Eb + Gb -> Fn -> Gb).  When I listen to these 2/4 bars as you currently have them it sounds off compared to the original.

Okay, that's good enough for me.  I can hear how the Bb fits in, and as I said earlier, I was hearing the G pretty flat and agree it fits better as a Gb lol.  I have fixed all of the points, and also removed all held notes because it seemed like it's better to be consistent to remove them.  Was wondering also if the staccatos need to be flipped but I couldn't seem to do that in Notepad

Sorry, I'm completely clueless when it comes to the GameCube games What you said makes sense, so I'll defer to your judgement unless anyone else has any input.

I did a bit of a revisit with this and I think it's probably best to call this Cipher Admin Theme.  This title fits the same title conventions of the XD OST for other character themes in XD and Colosseum (i.e. Jovi's Theme, Gonzap's Theme, Nascour's Theme)

[Libera]

Cool, I've updated the files with the formatting changes I mentioned earlier (and flipped the staccatos in 9-12).  I also adjusted some of the pitches in 7-8 since they didn't match 5-6 (I assume a mistake), and I made the RH beaming for bars 9/11 consistent with 5/7.  Have a look at the files and let me know if they're ok and I will accept.

I did a bit of a revisit with this and I think it's probably best to call this Cipher Admin Theme.  This title fits the same title conventions of the XD OST for other character themes in XD and Colosseum (i.e. Jovi's Theme, Gonzap's Theme, Nascour's Theme)

That reasoning sounds good to me, but if anyone else wants to chime in, go ahead.

[Kricketune54]

Cool, I've updated the files with the formatting changes I mentioned earlier (and flipped the staccatos in 9-12).  I also adjusted some of the pitches in 7-8 since they didn't match 5-6 (I assume a mistake), and I made the RH beaming for bars 9/11 consistent with 5/7.  Have a look at the files and let me know if they're ok and I will accept.

Oh yeah my bad, I thought I fixed them all.  Should've listened to the midi, but yeah the files look good!