[GCN] Pokémon Colosseum - "Main Menu" (Replacement) by Kricketune54

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Colosseum
Console: Nintendo GameCube
Title: Main Menu
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Kricketune54


Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS | MIDI | PDF
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kricketune54]

TFW replacing someone's only arrangement that's a decade old

Hope I didn't go overboard here.  There's a deceptive amount of things going on here due to some interspersed organ and piano parts between the string melody and bassline.  I wanted to represent those notes as best as possible without overcomplicating the piece.

As for game change this song was originally in Colosseum and was remastered in XD. It is the same except for a somewhat changed organ part (and XD sounds a little more like real instruments but doesn't sound as hip imo)

[Latios212]

Yay another replacement

As for game change this song was originally in Colosseum and was remastered in XD. It is the same except for a somewhat changed organ part (and XD sounds a little more like real instruments but doesn't sound as hip imo)

Updated the submission info, agree that this would be better listed as such.

Hope I didn't go overboard here.  There's a deceptive amount of things going on here due to some interspersed organ and piano parts between the string melody and bassline.  I wanted to represent those notes as best as possible without overcomplicating the piece.

Overall arrangement-wise it looks good but I would suggest removing some of the lower notes in the chords to make it easier to play.
- For m. 5 especially you have very large intervals - augmented tenth on beat 1 and a ninth for the last chord which is tricky given the speed. I would suggest dropping the lowest note in each chord.
- Consider doing so in some other places as well, like the second chord in m. 7 that comes right after a Bb above it, making it a bit awkward to jump to - this would be perfectly natural with only three notes. m. 8 beat 1 too would be much easier to transition into the next few notes if the Ab was removed on the bottom - here you already have AB in the bass so it's not important to keep in the right hand part.

Couple other things as I skim:
- It looks like your rests in layers 1 and 2 are in their default position, which isn't always nice. For example in m. 7 the lower layer rests are entirely off the staff even though the notes are on the staff. And the layer 2 rests are dipping onto the staff when the notes are above the staff. Try to keep the rests roughly horizontally aligned with the notes in the layers they are a part of.
- Give this thing I wrote about staccato placement a look

[Kricketune54]

Updated the submission info, agree that this would be better listed as such.

Cool

Overall arrangement-wise it looks good but I would suggest removing some of the lower notes in the chords to make it easier to play.
- For m. 5 especially you have very large intervals - augmented tenth on beat 1 and a ninth for the last chord which is tricky given the speed. I would suggest dropping the lowest note in each chord.
- Consider doing so in some other places as well, like the second chord in m. 7 that comes right after a Bb above it, making it a bit awkward to jump to - this would be perfectly natural with only three notes. m. 8 beat 1 too would be much easier to transition into the next few notes if the Ab was removed on the bottom - here you already have AB in the bass so it's not important to keep in the right hand part.

Fixed/removed notes

Couple other things as I skim:
- It looks like your rests in layers 1 and 2 are in their default position, which isn't always nice. For example in m. 7 the lower layer rests are entirely off the staff even though the notes are on the staff. And the layer 2 rests are dipping onto the staff when the notes are above the staff. Try to keep the rests roughly horizontally aligned with the notes in the layers they are a part of.
- Give this thing I wrote about staccato placement a look

Fixed the staccatos; I combined some of the rests where they were shared between layers... I'm a little iffy about how m5 looks though.  Would it be better to keep rests separate there or should I move the 16th rest on beat one of the second layers so it doesn't look off?

[Latios212]

Fixed the staccatos; I combined some of the rests where they were shared between layers... I'm a little iffy about how m5 looks though.  Would it be better to keep rests separate there or should I move the 16th rest on beat one of the second layers so it doesn't look off?

Hmm yeah... it does look a little not here not there. Apologies for not playing around with it myself earlier. I think you can keep them separate in most places except perhaps in places like m. 9/10 beat 1 where they're under the same beams.

Anyway before I get too much into that lemme go over the notes to make sure those are all set before we fine-tune the rests.
- I don't think the top layer plays on m. 7 beat 1 (the Eb)
- It doesn't sound like the Ab in m. 8 beat 1.75 is held for another quarter
- Fix the misaligned notes in m. 6/12 in the lower layer: Special Tools > Note Position Tool > right click and Remove Manual Adjustments
- I suggest extending the 8va in m. 10 to the end of that phrase to preserve the descending contour on beat 1
- I'd highly recommend inverting the chords down on m. 10/11 beat 3.25 so it doesn't poke above the melodic line. (Also that chord in m. 10 should be Db like the one in m. 11 i.e. changing the Bb to an Ab.)

And other aesthetics:
- Dynamic should be moved left a bit to be over the notehead
- With the reduced chords I think the staff spacing between LH/RH can be reduced in a lot of these measures. For m. 5-12 nothing gets super close so I think a value of 1" to 1.1" would work fine.

Additionally, I'd recommend adjusting the following rhythmic patterns for ease of reading:
- m. 8 beat 1: 16th + 8th rest + 16th - write as staccato 8th + 16th rest + 16th
- m. 8 beat 4: 16th + 8th + 16th rest - write as 16th + 16th + 8th rest
- m. 9/10/11/12 beat 4: dotted 8th + 16th rest - write as 8th + 8th rest

[Kricketune54]

Hmm yeah... it does look a little not here not there. Apologies for not playing around with it myself earlier. I think you can keep them separate in most places except perhaps in places like m. 9/10 beat 1 where they're under the same beams.

I think that's fixed now

- I don't think the top layer plays on m. 7 beat 1 (the Eb)

Gotcha, I still hear the note there but put it in second layer as it is a part of that piano part playing the chords in the original

- It doesn't sound like the Ab in m. 8 beat 1.75 is held for another quarter

I do to hear this note being held out somewhat so I reduced to eighth note instead of quarter

- Fix the misaligned notes in m. 6/12 in the lower layer: Special Tools > Note Position Tool > right click and Remove Manual Adjustments

I think I saw something happening here when I did this to the bottom layer, but I wasn't too sure what this was doing.

Reuploaded files, I fixed those chords that needed inverting, the other rests/note lengths as well as the aesthetic stuff

[Latios212]

I think I saw something happening here when I did this to the bottom layer, but I wasn't too sure what this was doing.

If you create second intervals between the two layers, one of the notes will get automatically moved, but it won't get moved back if you delete the notes in the other layer. I see it on a bunch of sheets where someone first writes out a bunch of stuff and then reduces it (or stuff gets shifted forwards or backwards in the measure while editing), so watch out for that whenever you remove notes.

Anyway, yeah, looking good! Some follow-up comments before I think I'm mostly done with it:
- The first couple of beats (including the chords and rests) in m. 10 and 11 are now misaligned between the different layers somehow, do the same thing for removing manual adjustments. Also m. 6 RH beat 4.25.
- Be consistent with your usage of 16th-staccato 8th-16th vs. 16th-16th-16th rest-16th rhythms in places like beat 4 RH of m. 6/8/10/12. I would recommend the latter so you don't end up with an awkward-looking 16th-8th-16th rest rhythm in m. 8.
- If we're pretty consistently separating rests between layers, do so in m. 6 as well.
- Some rests can go on normal height on the staff, like the lower layer ones in m. 5, 7, 8.
- By contrast, some do need to be moved away a bit. The last eighth rest in m. 9 is too close to the upper layer. You also should raise the upper rests in m. 10 a bit since that eighth rest looks like it precedes the 16th note chord on beat 3.25.
- Give the gap between LH/RH staff more space in m. 10.

Sorry for all the small nitpicks haha. All for cleaning it up

[Kricketune54]

If you create second intervals between the two layers, one of the notes will get automatically moved, but it won't get moved back if you delete the notes in the other layer. I see it on a bunch of sheets where someone first writes out a bunch of stuff and then reduces it (or stuff gets shifted forwards or backwards in the measure while editing), so watch out for that whenever you remove notes.

Anyway, yeah, looking good! Some follow-up comments before I think I'm mostly done with it:
- The first couple of beats (including the chords and rests) in m. 10 and 11 are now misaligned between the different layers somehow, do the same thing for removing manual adjustments. Also m. 6 RH beat 4.25.
- Be consistent with your usage of 16th-staccato 8th-16th vs. 16th-16th-16th rest-16th rhythms in places like beat 4 RH of m. 6/8/10/12. I would recommend the latter so you don't end up with an awkward-looking 16th-8th-16th rest rhythm in m. 8.
- If we're pretty consistently separating rests between layers, do so in m. 6 as well.
- Some rests can go on normal height on the staff, like the lower layer ones in m. 5, 7, 8.
- By contrast, some do need to be moved away a bit. The last eighth rest in m. 9 is too close to the upper layer. You also should raise the upper rests in m. 10 a bit since that eighth rest looks like it precedes the 16th note chord on beat 3.25.
- Give the gap between LH/RH staff more space in m. 10.

Sorry for all the small nitpicks haha. All for cleaning it up

Okay I hope that did it- fixed all the rests brought up and some rest stuff I noticed on my own.  Hope I didn't overdo it as I am not very good at eyeballing (if only there was a nice grid that showed where to put rests  )

[Latios212]

Thanks! Nah it looks good overall, I'll leave it to the next person to do a second check. Approved

(Oh, and I'd suggest making m. 7 beat 2.25 a 16th + 8th rest in line with my other comment above.)

[Kricketune54]

(Oh, and I'd suggest making m. 7 beat 2.25 a 16th + 8th rest in line with my other comment above.)

Done!

[mastersuperfan]

- Not sure why the slash is on the second grace note on m5 beat 1, I feel like I usually see it on the first grace note... I guess it doesn't really matter though.
- I think it would look cleaner to hide one rest in places where the two layers have the same rest at the same time, i.e. like this (with similar changes in m9-12):

Image

[close]

- On m6 RH beat 3.25, perhaps add a Db under the F and C? You could also add a Bb in Layer 2 on beat 4, although it might be tricky to restrike the Bb on beats 4 and 4.25. Eb on beat 4.75 is also a possibility, but again, the restrike.
- On m7 RH beat 3.25, I'd suggest changing the lower Eb in Layer 2 to an F—it sounds like Db-F-Ab as the chord.
- On m8 RH beat 1.75, the piano melody note in Layer 1 feels short to me, not held, just with a bit of reverb. I'd personally write it as a sixteenth note not tied to anything, especially since that's also consistent with Layer 2.
- In m9, the 8va should start a little further to the left.
- On m9 RH beat 4, the lower note in Layer 2 should be a G instead of an F. But that's hard to play with the G restriking on beat 4.25, so... honestly you could just omit the lower note on beat 4 and just leave the Bb.
- The Layer 1 eighth rests on m8 RH beats 2.5 and 3 should be raised one notch to match the height of the surrounding eighth rests.
- The 16th rests on m9-10 RH beat 1.5 should be lowered to the normal staff height for a 16th rest.
- On m10 RH beat 4, the two layers should be offset from one another. Finale should automatically space it that way if you click on one of the notes.
- I'd suggest lowering the Layer 1 16th rest on m10 RH beat 4.5 down two notches (to normal 16th rest staff height) so that it's not so close to touching the beam.
- Not sure I hear the Bb on m11 RH beat 3.25—sounds like the lowest note should be a Db instead of a Bb.
- Staccato on beat 1 of m12 RH?
- On m12 RH beat 3.25, the lower note in Layer 2 should be Ab instead of Bb (it's a Db major chord again). You could also consider removing the Db and just leaving the Ab in Layer 2 if you don't like the major second dissonance between the Db and the melody Eb.

[Kricketune54]

- Not sure why the slash is on the second grace note on m5 beat 1, I feel like I usually see it on the first grace note... I guess it doesn't really matter though.

Fixed, not sure why it was like that but I didn't know that it was normally the other way

- I think it would look cleaner to hide one rest in places where the two layers have the same rest at the same time, i.e. like this (with similar changes in m9-12):

Image

[close]

used my judgement on this, wondering what you think about m10.

- On m6 RH beat 3.25, perhaps add a Db under the F and C? You could also add a Bb in Layer 2 on beat 4, although it might be tricky to restrike the Bb on beats 4 and 4.25. Eb on beat 4.75 is also a possibility, but again, the restrike.

Added Db, did not add other notes due to fast restrikes

- On m7 RH beat 3.25, I'd suggest changing the lower Eb in Layer 2 to an F—it sounds like Db-F-Ab as the chord.

fixed

- On m8 RH beat 1.75, the piano melody note in Layer 1 feels short to me, not held, just with a bit of reverb. I'd personally write it as a sixteenth note not tied to anything, especially since that's also consistent with Layer 2.

Removed the tie, hid quarter rest that resulted

- In m9, the 8va should start a little further to the left.
- On m9 RH beat 4, the lower note in Layer 2 should be a G instead of an F. But that's hard to play with the G restriking on beat 4.25, so... honestly you could just omit the lower note on beat 4 and just leave the Bb.

Fixed, and removed

- The Layer 1 eighth rests on m8 RH beats 2.5 and 3 should be raised one notch to match the height of the surrounding eighth rests.
- The 16th rests on m9-10 RH beat 1.5 should be lowered to the normal staff height for a 16th rest.

Fixed

- On m10 RH beat 4, the two layers should be offset from one another. Finale should automatically space it that way if you click on one of the notes.

Did this also for measure 12, as it defaults same way.

- I'd suggest lowering the Layer 1 16th rest on m10 RH beat 4.5 down two notches (to normal 16th rest staff height) so that it's not so close to touching the beam.
- Not sure I hear the Bb on m11 RH beat 3.25—sounds like the lowest note should be a Db instead of a Bb.
- Staccato on beat 1 of m12 RH?
- On m12 RH beat 3.25, the lower note in Layer 2 should be Ab instead of Bb (it's a Db major chord again). You could also consider removing the Db and just leaving the Ab in Layer 2 if you don't like the major second dissonance between the Db and the melody Eb.

Fixed these points, I decided to omit the Db and leave in the Ab to avoid the dissonance

[mastersuperfan]

Looking good!

- On m9 RH beat 4, the lower note in Layer 2 should be a G instead of an F. But that's hard to play with the G restriking on beat 4.25, so... honestly you could just omit the lower note on beat 4 and just leave the Bb.

- Oops, I meant m8, not m9. The G in m9 is fine!
- I'd suggest moving the mf in m1 a little more to the left so that it's centered with the noteheads on beat 1.
- You can also hide one of the 16th rests on m5/7 RH beat 3.5 (I forgot to do so in my screenshot) and then manually adjust the remaining 16th rest so that it's positioned comfortably between the two layers. I'd also hide the upper 16th rest on m7 RH beat 4.
- For m10, I'd suggest (a) lowering the quarter rest on beat 2 down to center staff and (b) lowering the Layer 1 16th rest on beat 4.5 down two notches so that it's not so close to the beam. Otherwise, it looks good! Actually, I would suggest not even using an 8va in m9-10 at all. Most of the phrase is well within what is usual to read for ledger lines. The only exception is m9 beat 3.25, but even then, it's a triad with Db as the root, so it's pretty easy to tell what notes to play. Rest positioning could look something like this:

Image

[close]

- I would also suggest moving the m12 RH Layer 2 beat 1.5 16th rest up two notches so it's not so close to the lower beam.
- Now that you deleted the Db, the two layers are misaligned on m12 RH beat 3. It should fix itself if you delete and re-enter the Ab.

[Kricketune54]

Looking good!
- Oops, I meant m8, not m9. The G in m9 is fine!
- I'd suggest moving the mf in m1 a little more to the left so that it's centered with the noteheads on beat 1.- You can also hide one of the 16th rests on m5/7 RH beat 3.5 (I forgot to do so in my screenshot) and then manually adjust the remaining 16th rest so that it's positioned comfortably between the two layers. I'd also hide the upper 16th rest on m7 RH beat 4.

Fixed, the G is back in 9.  Fixed other points

Actually, I would suggest not even using an 8va in m9-10 at all. Most of the phrase is well within what is usual to read for ledger lines. The only exception is m9 beat 3.25, but even then, it's a triad with Db as the root, so it's pretty easy to tell what notes to play. Rest positioning could look something like this:

Image

[close]

Fixed it up to your screenshot

- I would also suggest moving the m12 RH Layer 2 beat 1.5 16th rest up two notches so it's not so close to the lower beam.
- Now that you deleted the Db, the two layers are misaligned on m12 RH beat 3. It should fix itself if you delete and re-enter the Ab.

Fixed

reuploaded

[mastersuperfan]

Great! Almost there...
- On m7 RH beat 3.75, you could optionally add an Ab between the Eb's if you wanted. I'm not sure whether I like it more with or without it; I'll let you decide.
- On m10 RH beat 3, I'd recommend moving the Layer 2 sixteenth rest one notch down so that the "circles" of the rest lie within the first two staff spaces.
- Do you want a staccato on Layer 2 of m12 RH beat 1, like how you have it in m9/10? Or just on Layer 1?
- m12 RH beat 4 has the layers misaligned—as before, deleting and re-entering Layer 2 should fix it.