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Spookietune's Halloween Sheet

Started by Kricketune54, September 30, 2021, 04:24:34 PM

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Kricketune54

I know I teased I was working on "Dark Manor" from Epic Yarn, but I'm not pleased where I'm at on that one.  Maybe next year...

Instead, here's another Trick or Treat from the Pink Puffball, or rather his deranged robed opponent (or is he?)

Kirby Star Allies - "Puppet Offering"

[.MUSX][.MUS][.MIDI][.PDF]


Bloop

wow this is unsettling coming from a kirby game
Anyway, onto the actual comments:

-m1-2: Instead of a tempo marking, I'd write "Cadenza" here: there's not really a tempo to hold on to, as it accelerates from the first note already.
-m3 and on: The D#'s and A#'s should be notated as Eb's and Bb (it should look like a Ebsus2 chord)
-m5: For some reason the double barline is at the beginning of this bar instead of at the end of m4?
-m7: The 32nd notes here, though technically correct, may be a bit too hard to play at this speed. I'd recommend raising the 2nd and 4th of these notes up an octave, so the high plingy sound is still there while being way more managable.
-m9: I think it would be cool to have a strong low Eb an octave below the low gamelan part + pedal, to imitate the gong in this bar. It's so sudden and spooky, it'd be a waste to leave it out imo.
-m10: The quarter notes on beats 2 to 4 can have their stem back down, as the other layer isn't affecting it anymore (and it's part of the lower layer anyway)
-m11: The F on beat 1.333 in the R.H. should be an E# (third in C# major scale). Also, I think the L.H. could either use portato markings (tenuto + staccato), or just be written as 8th + 8th rests. It's not really staccato short.
-m12 L.H.: Again, the D#'s should be Eb. I think it'd work better to include the octave above beat 3 and 4 too, as it feels like the same strength as the notes before, except an octave higher.
-m13-15: The Gb's here should be F#'s (they won't look weird with the F's in the R.H., this is too polytonal to worry about that). Also, each of these bars end with a rest. Technically it's always an tuplet 8th rest, but for m13 and 14 it may look a bit cleaner to just have normal 8th rests. Also also, you could add the lower octave to the L.H. on beats 1 and 2 to imitate those crazy Majora's Mask percussion accents. Lastly, the accent markings in the R.H. don't really make sense to me, as the notes they're on aren't really more or less accentuated than others. You could add the accents to beat 1 and 2 though, if you combine that with the L.H. octaves + accents.
-m16: I personally would've taken on this bar completely different:
You cannot view this attachment.
The accents are there for the majora's mask percussion stuff, as well as the octaves in the L.H. again. I hear the low B on beat 3.333: the C on beat 4 is for the percussion accent. I renotated a lot of stuff enharmonically: A# and B in the L.H., and almost the whole of beats 3 and 4 in the R.H. to show the B major-ish scale. The D# could maybe be written as an Eb as it appeared before in the bar, but it obscures the structure of this upwards phrase imo.
-m17: I personally don't really like the repeated ped+line markings as pedal lines, I'd either prefer the classical ped + star, the modern lines only, or a combination of both.

now that i look at it better though, why do you have pedal lines here anyway? The notes in the L.H. can be held fine as is and the melody doesn't profit from the pedal at all.

-m20: I'd renotate the G#'s and D#'s in the R.H. as Ab's and Eb's, as well as the C# and A# in the L.H. as Db and Bb, because these go down a half step on beat 3.
-m21-23: I'd renotate everything that has a sharp in the R.H. as it's enharmonic flat, so it starts in Db major and goes down chromatically. Also, the first note in m21 in the R.H. could use an accent because it's so piercing,
-m25: Same thing in the L.H. with portato or 8ths + 8th rests.
-m27: And again in the R.H. with moving up the 2nd and 4th 32nd notes an octave. In the L.H., I'd move them down (so they won't clash with the R.H.). I'd also renotate the G# as Ab.
-m28: And lastly, another big gong in this bar, so you could again add an octave below the bass. I'd also add a pedal line, so the notes keep playing while the player taps the pencil.
-Small thing too: the url in the copyright information could use a / at the end.

There were quite a few places I commented on the enharmonic spelling: remember that in most cases, you use sharps when going up and flats when going down from the note you want to flatten or sharpen.

Kricketune54

Just want to preface before getting into the comments, I really tried with the enharmonic spelling based off previous feedback I received; looks like I fell short on this though.  I knew this was going to be a tough one and I put a lot effort into figuring out the pitches and chords, but I'll do better for future stuff

Quote-m1-2: Instead of a tempo marking, I'd write "Cadenza" here: there's not really a tempo to hold on to, as it accelerates from the first note already.

Swapped out the tempo marking as directed

Quote-m3 and on: The D#'s and A#'s should be notated as Eb's and Bb (it should look like a Ebsus2 chord)

These should be fixed now

Quote-m5: For some reason the double barline is at the beginning of this bar instead of at the end of m4?

Shoot.  I had this right when I first addressed this... Zeila had made me aware of including a double bar with the segundo but I misunderstood her feedback and changed what I had after I initially fixed it.  Fixed to be correct

Quote-m7: The 32nd notes here, though technically correct, may be a bit too hard to play at this speed. I'd recommend raising the 2nd and 4th of these notes up an octave, so the high plingy sound is still there while being way more manageable.

Yeah I was wondering if this was too fast.  Fixed.

Quote-m9: I think it would be cool to have a strong low Eb an octave below the low gamelan part + pedal, to imitate the gong in this bar. It's so sudden and spooky, it'd be a waste to leave it out imo.

I had no idea first off that the gamelan was the name of the instrument lol.  Just thought it was some sort of belled instrument that was unique and cool sounding, but I have added this.  Thanks also for the photos, I didn't really know where to terminate the pedal in a measure but these visuals helped

Quote-m10: The quarter notes on beats 2 to 4 can have their stem back down, as the other layer isn't affecting it anymore (and it's part of the lower layer anyway)
-m11: The F on beat 1.333 in the R.H. should be an E# (third in C# major scale). Also, I think the L.H. could either use portato markings (tenuto + staccato), or just be written as 8th + 8th rests. It's not really staccato short.

Fixed both, didn't feel it was a true staccato either but didn't know what to put  :P

Quote-m12 L.H.: Again, the D#'s should be Eb. I think it'd work better to include the octave above beat 3 and 4 too, as it feels like the same strength as the notes before, except an octave higher.

Fixed, and I also have made the C# on beat 4 LH a Db based off prior feedback; I assumed it was forgotten

Quote-m13-15: The Gb's here should be F#'s (they won't look weird with the F's in the R.H., this is too polytonal to worry about that). Also, each of these bars end with a rest. Technically it's always an tuplet 8th rest, but for m13 and 14 it may look a bit cleaner to just have normal 8th rests. Also also, you could add the lower octave to the L.H. on beats 1 and 2 to imitate those crazy Majora's Mask percussion accents. Lastly, the accent markings in the R.H. don't really make sense to me, as the notes they're on aren't really more or less accentuated than others. You could add the accents to beat 1 and 2 though, if you combine that with the L.H. octaves + accents.

A lot to digest here.  Fixed the Gb's as well as the last beats.  I like the idea of beat 1 and beat 2.  The accent marks on the F's were intended to replicate what sounded  like a little more emphasis on the first notes, and also sounded to me like the symbol crashes more on those beats.  I will remove though.

Quote-m16: I personally would've taken on this bar completely different:
You cannot view this attachment.

The accents are there for the majora's mask percussion stuff, as well as the octaves in the L.H. again. I hear the low B on beat 3.333: the C on beat 4 is for the percussion accent. I renotated a lot of stuff enharmonically: A# and B in the L.H., and almost the whole of beats 3 and 4 in the R.H. to show the B major-ish scale. The D# could maybe be written as an Eb as it appeared before in the bar, but it obscures the structure of this upwards phrase imo.

Wherever the enharmonic stuff, I fixed.  Hahah I spent way more of my life on this than I wish I had, but I ended up sort of going with this screen shot for the most part.  Was not initially a fan but as I listened in audacity and played around I realized it made sense.  I did also add a lower octave to the LH second A#, and a lower octave to the final note in the LH.  If you think that's too difficult I will remove.

Quote-m17: I personally don't really like the repeated ped+line markings as pedal lines, I'd either prefer the classical ped + star, the modern lines only, or a combination of both.

now that i look at it better though, why do you have pedal lines here anyway? The notes in the L.H. can be held fine as is and the melody doesn't profit from the pedal at all.

On this point, I was trying to replicate the increased reverb of this part, but if it isn't perceived as adding anything I will remove.  Just a detail, kinda like what was recommended for m9 imo

Quote-m20: I'd renotate the G#'s and D#'s in the R.H. as Ab's and Eb's, as well as the C# and A# in the L.H. as Db and Bb, because these go down a half step on beat 3.

Fixed

Quote-m21-23: I'd renotate everything that has a sharp in the R.H. as it's enharmonic flat, so it starts in Db major and goes down chromatically. Also, the first note in m21 in the R.H. could use an accent because it's so piercing,

Yeah I thought this was C#.  Fixed.

Quote-m25: Same thing in the L.H. with portato or 8ths + 8th rests.

Portatoed.

Quote-m27: And again in the R.H. with moving up the 2nd and 4th 32nd notes an octave. In the L.H., I'd move them down (so they won't clash with the R.H.). I'd also renotate the G# as Ab.

Changed the octaves as advised

Quote-m28: And lastly, another big gong in this bar, so you could again add an octave below the bass. I'd also add a pedal line, so the notes keep playing while the player taps the pencil.

Good point, added.

Quote-Small thing too: the url in the copyright information could use a / at the end.

No joke this weird Chinese looking character kept popping up at the end of the url every time I edited the text there and would keep coming back.  In my efforts to erase the Chinese menace, I must've deleted on accident.

File has been re-added to D-Box

Bloop

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 06, 2021, 05:54:12 PMFixed, and I also have made the C# on beat 4 LH a Db based off prior feedback; I assumed it was forgotten
Ah yeah, that one could be either way I guess. The enharmonic spelling is usually based on the notes it precedes, not the notes it follows. As this is the last note in the phrase, it could be either one, though I guess having it as natural-flat-natural-flat is a bit more elegant.

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 06, 2021, 05:54:12 PMThe accent marks on the F's were intended to replicate what sounded  like a little more emphasis on the first notes, and also sounded to me like the symbol crashes more on those beats.  I will remove though.
I think that's just the way the F sounds in this soundfont, as all F's have that same kind of accent.

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 06, 2021, 05:54:12 PMI did also add a lower octave to the LH second A#, and a lower octave to the final note in the LH.  If you think that's too difficult I will remove.
Not sure which A# you're referring to that I didn't already have, but this is fine too!

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 06, 2021, 05:54:12 PMOn this point, I was trying to replicate the increased reverb of this part, but if it isn't perceived as adding anything I will remove.  Just a detail, kinda like what was recommended for m9 imo
Ah, I see. On a real piano (and definitely a grand piano) it would have a bit more reverb effect, though all the melody notes may drown eachother out a bit. I think it's good to assume the sheets on site will mostly be played on a keyboard or electric piano, where the pedal really just has the effect of lengthening the duration of the notes. The dynamic change and the long notes in the L.H. would probably be enough to evoke the different vibe in this part.
Also, tiny comment on m19, it's probably better to have the G# in the R.H. as Ab here (preceding the Gn), as that'd look a bit more consistent with the Ab in the next bar.

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 06, 2021, 05:54:12 PMYeah I thought this was C#.  Fixed.
C# major would work too, but then you'd have to change the Fn's and Cn's to E#'s and B#'s, which is a bit harder to read. Also, I was referring to m22 and 23 too when changing the sharps to flats, as this is a descending motion too.

A few other minor points on the changes made:
-A bit unclear on my part: in m27, I originally meant changing the G# to Ab at the end of the bar (the 32nd notes), the G#'s you had in beat 1 and 1.333 were fine as is. I originally liked changing it as G#-F looks like a third on the piano, and as it's not a normal Western tonality, I thought it'd be better to show the third-ness in the notation too. However, having done a little bit more wikipedia research on gamelan music, it's possible that that part is based on this gamelan scale (or pelog), if you notate the sharpened Eb as an E:
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So maybe changing the last Ab back to G# too is not such a bad idea.
-About the pedal markings, you can be a bit more nitpicky about where you want them to end (the star part): the one starting on m9 could end at the start of m10, and the one in m28 should end directly under the quarter rest.
-Lastly, about the tap pencil mark, you probably don't need the staccato on the 8ths, as the player can't really alter the duration of the note. You could also change the last 16th note + 8th rest to a dotted 8th note too for this same reason.

Kricketune54

Quote-About the pedal markings, you can be a bit more nitpicky about where you want them to end (the star part): the one starting on m9 could end at the start of m10, and the one in m28 should end directly under the quarter rest.

Not sure I understood where the end mark for the m9 pedal goes, so hopefully that's the right spot.  Fixed m28.


All other stuff mentioned in your comment has been addressed and updated, I did revert m27's Ab's to G#'s where you had specified.  I also added a courtesy sharp to the last G# in the right hand

Bloop

This is what I meant with pedal marking in m9, though what you have is fine too. Also, extra suggestion as well: I hid the half rest and flipped the first note of the first layer, as to not clash with the 3rd layer:
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This way, the pedal keeps sounding until the first note of the m10.

Also, I again was a bit unclear of what Ab's needed to be G#'s: it was all of them, haha. This is what it should look like:
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Sorry to put you through this measure so much, just to pretty much end up where you started! You don't really need the courtesy accidental in the R.H. like this, as it's most likely pretty clear that it's not a G, as that would sound and look out of place.


Kricketune54

Updated Project Folder with this feedback

Bloop

After a few tiny fixes mentioned via discord, I'll give this an You cannot view this attachment.!

Latios212

Here we go! Second check!

- Having a slur between the F# and G in m. 6 RH beats 3-4 could help to show that the F# is held while the G is tapped quickly. Conversely, I think the slur over m. 24 is confusing due to the staccato in the middle of the measure and I'd recommend taking that slur out.
- Not sure I hear the upper octave C#s in the right hand of m. 9, and I'm not sure it belongs as the rest of the melody is just single notes
- About m. 16, I don't think the accents being on beat 4 is right. It sounds to me like accents should divide the second half of the measure into three, just like the first half of the measure. That'd also be consistent with the bass moving to C on beat three and two thirds.
- Accordingly, I think it might be better for the left hand of m. 16 to be quarter note triplets.
- You should have courtesy naturals on the left hand D's in m. 22-24 because they alternate with the D#s. (Would recommend non-parenthesized)
- I forgot if I mentioned this somewhere else in Discord, but I don't think between the staves next to the rest is the best place for the text note. It should be next to the part it is supposed to relate to. There's not a lot of room on the top, but I think it would look better up there - maybe shifted left a bit because of the DS.
- Pedal release marking is higher than the pedal marking in the last measure.

Quote from: Bloop on October 06, 2021, 12:30:08 PM-m11: The F on beat 1.333 in the R.H. should be an E# (third in C# major scale). Also, I think the L.H. could either use portato markings (tenuto + staccato), or just be written as 8th + 8th rests. It's not really staccato short.
Beat one and two thirds? This is still an F instead of an E#. (Also F# major scale here, not C# major?)

About the performance note at the end, I like it haha. A couple of things about that, though. "Grandmother's" doesn't need to be capitalized. And I'm not sure if a toy piano would work, because I think toy pianos generally have a pretty small range - you need the high tinkly notes as well as the low bass octaves, so I don't think using a toy piano as a suggestion makes a lot of sense.

And lastly the main thing I want to mention about this one is that it could be respaced a bit. The third system in particular is pretty cramped. You've got a lot of empty space on page 2 that you can use for an extra system, so I'd suggest shifting a few measures downwards. See what looks good to you.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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turtle

Kricketune54

Quote- Having a slur between the F# and G in m. 6 RH beats 3-4 could help to show that the F# is held while the G is tapped quickly. Conversely, I think the slur over m. 24 is confusing due to the staccato in the middle of the measure and I'd recommend taking that slur out.

Slur added m. 6, taken out as instructed for m. 24


 
Quote- Not sure I hear the upper octave C#s in the right hand of m. 9, and I'm not sure it belongs as the rest of the melody is just single notes

Yeah I think I thought this because the bells sound different here compared to other parts.  Playing with audacity didn't here a second layer so took off the top notes

Quote- About m. 16, I don't think the accents being on beat 4 is right. It sounds to me like accents should divide the second half of the measure into three, just like the first half of the measure. That'd also be consistent with the bass moving to C on beat three and two thirds.

Fixed

Quote- Accordingly, I think it might be better for the left hand of m. 16 to be quarter note triplets.

I'm assuming you just meant the first two beats of the LH, fixed

Quote- You should have courtesy naturals on the left hand D's in m. 22-24 because they alternate with the D#s. (Would recommend non-parenthesized)

Added, non-parenthesized

 
Quote- I forgot if I mentioned this somewhere else in Discord, but I don't think between the staves next to the rest is the best place for the text note. It should be next to the part it is supposed to relate to. There's not a lot of room on the top, but I think it would look better up there - maybe shifted left a bit because of the DS.

I don't think I saw that if it was said... or maybe I misinterpreted it lol.  I have moved it above the notes, and also moved the D.S up 3 up arrows

Quote- Pedal release marking is higher than the pedal marking in the last measure.

Fixed

QuoteBeat one and two thirds? This is still an F instead of an E#. (Also F# major scale here, not C# major?)

Fixed this forgorten part, are there any implications to the scale being F#?  I.e. changing accidentals

Quote"Grandmother's" doesn't need to be capitalized.
Shhhh it's a formality respect your elders fixed

QuoteAnd I'm not sure if a toy piano would work, because I think toy pianos generally have a pretty small range - you need the high tinkly notes as well as the low bass octaves, so I don't think using a toy piano as a suggestion makes a lot of sense.

Okay, took that part out.  I was trying to illustrate that you want this to sound somewhat goofy but it did cross my mind it probably wasn't feasible

QuoteAnd lastly the main thing I want to mention about this one is that it could be respaced a bit. The third system in particular is pretty cramped. You've got a lot of empty space on page 2 that you can use for an extra system, so I'd suggest shifting a few measures downwards. See what looks good to you.

Arrrggh I knew it I resisted though for the lack of wanting to fix the things that inevitably get shuffled.  Fixed

Bloop

Quote from: Latios212 on October 19, 2021, 05:04:06 PMBeat one and two thirds? This is still an F instead of an E#. (Also F# major scale here, not C# major?)
Oh yeah it's F# major, not C#, but then again the F should still be written as an E#, right? It's the 7th in F# major. It's also for continuity's sake: there's an E# in m10 (beat 2.5) and at the end of m11

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 19, 2021, 06:01:49 PMare there any implications to the scale being F#?
The scale of C# major is C# D# E# F# G# A# B# (just like C major but just with all flats). We have a Bn instead of a B# in this part though, so it's F# major (F# G# A# B C# D# E#).

Latios212

Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 19, 2021, 06:01:49 PMare there any implications to the scale being F#?  I.e. changing accidentals
Nothing else to change! Just wanted to point out the right scale, as Bloop mentioned above.

Quote from: Latios212 on October 19, 2021, 05:04:06 PM- Accordingly, I think it might be better for the left hand of m. 16 to be quarter note triplets.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 19, 2021, 06:01:49 PMI'm assuming you just meant the first two beats of the LH, fixed
I did actually mean to suggest the whole measure, like this:
You cannot view this attachment.
I wasn't really hearing eighth note triplets as you wrote in.

Quote from: Latios212 on October 19, 2021, 05:04:06 PMAnd lastly the main thing I want to mention about this one is that it could be respaced a bit. The third system in particular is pretty cramped. You've got a lot of empty space on page 2 that you can use for an extra system, so I'd suggest shifting a few measures downwards. See what looks good to you.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 19, 2021, 06:01:49 PMArrrggh I knew it I resisted though for the lack of wanting to fix the things that inevitably get shuffled.  Fixed
Better! A couple further potential improvements:
- Move m. 8 down a system to make the second system less cramped, since the third system now has two measures, m. 9 being relatively empty. (You may need to re-enter or adjust the positioning of the 32nd notes in m. 9 so they're not crushed up against the barline).
- Move the top system (i.e. all the systems) and the performance note down on page 2 since you have extra space at the bottom and the music is pretty close to the header.
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

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[close]
turtle

Kricketune54

QuoteI did actually mean to suggest the whole measure, like this:
You cannot view this attachment.
I wasn't really hearing eighth note triplets as you wrote in.

I'm not sure if you had seen what Bloop had given feedback on for that measure, but what you have is essentially what I had to begin with (minus the lower notes) in the LH.  This way of arranging the part seems more accurate to me, certainly in an audible sense.  I've updated the file to express what you have here but I just wanted to confirm if this is the preferred way

Fixed the spacing as directed on pg 2, reuploaded this time in the right folder lol

Latios212

Quote from: Bloop on October 06, 2021, 12:30:08 PM-m16: I personally would've taken on this bar completely different:
You cannot view this attachment.
The accents are there for the majora's mask percussion stuff, as well as the octaves in the L.H. again. I hear the low B on beat 3.333: the C on beat 4 is for the percussion accent.
Quote from: Kricketune54 on October 20, 2021, 05:38:59 PMI'm not sure if you had seen what Bloop had given feedback on for that measure, but what you have is essentially what I had to begin with (minus the lower notes) in the LH.  This way of arranging the part seems more accurate to me, certainly in an audible sense.  I've updated the file to express what you have here but I just wanted to confirm if this is the preferred way
Gotcha, yeah I see Bloop's comment but not what you originally had. Writing it in quarter note triplets feels simpler and more natural to me, as well as reflective of the pulse in the original. If you agree with me then I'd say go with that but Bloop feel free to re-weigh in here as well!

Quote from: Latios212 on October 20, 2021, 04:39:41 PM(You may need to re-enter or adjust the positioning of the 32nd notes in m. 9 so they're not crushed up against the barline).
You cannot view this attachment.
Don't forget this! You can use the Note Position Tool to push them left a bit if they don't want to move there automatically
My arrangements and YouTube channel!

Quote from: Dudeman on February 22, 2016, 10:16:37 AM
who needs education when you can have WAIFUS!!!!!

Spoiler
[close]
turtle

Kricketune54