[NDS] Pokémon Diamond Version &amp Pokémon Pearl Version - "quotVeilstone City (Day)"quot (Replacement) by L

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Diamond Version & Pokémon Pearl Version
Console: Nintendo DS
Title: Veilstone City (Day)
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Latios212


Replacement Information:
Links to Existing Sheet: MUS | MIDI | PDF
Replacement Type: Challenge (new arranger)

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[Latios212]

Definitely the most needed replacement from Diamond/Pearl right now, given the quality of the sheet on site~

A few notes from me on this:
- I tried to insert harmonies where they fall in the non-melody voices in the original, writing them underneath the melody where possible. There are a few places though where I shifted the harmony to conform more to the rhythm of the melody when I think it might be a bit distracting otherwise falling on other beats.
- The rhythms are pretty straightforward in this piece, even if they are a bit unsightly. I thought about aligning triplets/swung eighths between LH/RH like I normally do in other pieces, but I'm thinking about not doing that for this piece since there's a lot of that going on and the reader would need to carefully check where things do and don't line up in this piece anyway.
- I had a pretty tough time with the accidentals... there is both a lot of chromatic movement and interesting chords in this track.

Source, because the playlist from PocketMonstersMusic which I always refer to is now gone: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fu9vt7q8s7fa0pe/59%20Veilstone%20City%20%28Day%29.m4a?dl=0

[Kricketune54]

A real schwinger, but honestly kudos for making this one work 


m2 beat 1.5 I hear like a Dn on top of the G# for this rhythm, but it could just be some reverb
m3 and m5 RH- based off the original I think 1.5 should be tied over to another quarter note
m9  RH Lower layer beats 3-4 Extremely subtle but I hear a Bn to Bb movement inside these quarter note clusters.


m22 RH beat 2 I hear an An grace note on this Bb
m24 as a part of the solo in the original I hear a low Gn on beat 2 but maybe that's left out because it's not really a feasible reach (and it's also very ad-libbed soloey sounding)
m25 RH beat 3-4 the Fn's seem pretty far away from the An's, could they be moved up an octave or left out?
m26 RH grace note on beat 2.5- is this a doubled accidental because of the key instead of just being Gn?
m28 RH unless there's something I don't know about grace notes and ties this should be a dotted quarter... also applies for m37
m33 lower layer has a staccato on beats 1.5 and 3
m35-36 RH The notes seem to have staccatos similar to m32 but on on beats 1.5 and 3.5
m35 LH beat 3 (and m40 same spot in measure) given this is just chromatically ascending here could this just be Dn and then have the sharp accidental on beat 4?  I saw in m23's LH it was done this way, but maybe I'm not paying attention enough to the key.

[Latios212]

A real schwinger, but honestly kudos for making this one work 

Thanks! I'm glad it ended up presentable, I had started this a long time ago and wasn't too sure how it'd end up haha

m2 beat 1.5 I hear like a Dn on top of the G# for this rhythm, but it could just be some reverb

It's definitely there, sounds like it's part of another voice that's sometimes octave doubling the bass part I wrote in or something, it's a bit off. I was leaning towards keeping the LH part here monophonic like the rest of the piece, but if we think it might sound amiss without that note I have nothing against writing it in. Didn't touch it for now though

m24 as a part of the solo in the original I hear a low Gn on beat 2 but maybe that's left out because it's not really a feasible reach (and it's also very ad-libbed soloey sounding)

Wow I never even noticed that lol, but yeah I think I'll leave it out since it's not part of any of the parts I wrote in here

m25 RH beat 3-4 the Fn's seem pretty far away from the An's, could they be moved up an octave or left out?

This is actually where I stopped a couple years ago because m. 24-25 were making me uneasy lol. I do not like the sound of the minor second the E-Fn makes if you raise the Fn by an octave and would prefer omitting it if the performer can't reach. Hence the parentheses around the first one (but the other two are reachable with a bit of jumping). It is possible for hands of moderate size though (I can barely reach, but probably not at tempo)

m26 RH grace note on beat 2.5- is this a doubled accidental because of the key instead of just being Gn?

This is just due to the fact that it's adjacent to a G#. I think putting the grace note and melody note on the same staff line, even with different accidentals, looks a bit weird (although I may do it sometimes if it looks nicer. In this case, the Fx isn't too out of place given we have a G#m chord.

m28 RH unless there's something I don't know about grace notes and ties this should be a dotted quarter... also applies for m37

Nothing to do with grace notes, sometimes I prefer to show the beat with dotted quarters in swing pieces to be more explicit about where the beat lies.

m35-36 RH The notes seem to have staccatos similar to m32 but on on beats 1.5 and 3.5

Yup, I also added a few staccatos in the last four measures as well since I forgot to add some here

m35 LH beat 3 (and m40 same spot in measure) given this is just chromatically ascending here could this just be Dn and then have the sharp accidental on beat 4?  I saw in m23's LH it was done this way, but maybe I'm not paying attention enough to the key.

Ah yeah Dn is probably a bit easier to read (and closer to the key signature - flatted seventh of E major)

m3 and m5 RH- based off the original I think 1.5 should be tied over to another quarter note
m9  RH Lower layer beats 3-4 Extremely subtle but I hear a Bn to Bb movement inside these quarter note clusters.
m22 RH beat 2 I hear an An grace note on this Bb
m33 lower layer has a staccato on beats 1.5 and 3

Got these too! Thanks for looking!

[Code_Name_Geek]

Wow, this is a really impressive arrangement! Great job

One thing I noticed regarding the first half of m. 32 and then all of m. 35-36: I think the RH rhythms would be easier to read as quarter note triplets (it's also the way I usually see rhythms like that written in swing charts). The way you wrote it is technically also right, though, so up to you if you want to change it or keep it.

[Bloop]

Ah yes, Gracenote City, my favorite.

Nice work on this song! I can hear a lot of grace notes you haven't included in your arrangement, but I think that was probably intentional? I won't point them all out if it was ^^ Anyway, onto the comments:

-I think I agree on keeping the first 2 bars without the second voice, the monophonic intro probably works a little bit better.
-m4 and 6: The G# in beat 3.5 is actually the grace note going towards an A.
-m5: I can hear the Fn being restruck on beat 3.33
-m7: I think you can add an E to beat 3 too, it's there in the original and it prevents the beat from sounding like a Bm7.
-m9: Maybe the Bb on beat 4 would work better as an A#, as the sax melody uses the A# too and it kinda seems to be going back to B anyway.
-m10: Also maybe the Dn on beat 1.66 below the F#, so you have a little bit more of the chord in there.
-m12: The Bb in the left should probably be A# (A#dim going to E7/B in the next bar)
-m14: The Fn's here should be E# (going the the F#m7 in the next bar). Also, is the Fn/E# in the R.H. on beat 2 one of the shifted harmony notes? I personally don't feel that weird having it go from F# to E# on beat 3 (and also having that F# on beat 1.66 instead of beat 2), but up to you if you wanna keep it as is ^^
-m17-19: aww the marimba solo's not there. I'm guessing you left it out so the player can take a little breath, but you could still include it as it's very much in the foreground.
-m20: I think Gn's instead of F#'s in the triplet figure in the R.H. would work a little bit better: the F#'s are there an octave above the Gn, but they're there as a dissonant upper extension to the Gn. In the basis, this bar is an A7 chord, and the F#'s might make it more like an A6.
-m22: I hear G# on beat 1 instead of Gn.
-m24: The Bb's in the R.H. should be A#'s (like m12, A#dim or some inversion of that to E7/B)
-m26 and 38: I think you can add an E# to beat 2.5 (just below the melody), as that's the third in the chord on beat 3 (C#9). I think you can still keep En in that grace note run down on beat 4, as the that sounds a bit jazzier than changing it to E#.
-m32: I still hear Gn in the R.H. on beat 2.33 (instead of it going to A# already)
-m33: I hear F# on top on beat 3 instead of E.
-m34: You can include a G# on beat 2.66 in the R.H. too.

[Latios212]

Nice work on this song! I can hear a lot of grace notes you haven't included in your arrangement, but I think that was probably intentional? I won't point them all out if it was ^^

Thank you! I probably omitted a bunch of them for a bit easier/neater playing but if you think I missed any that really should be there let me know!

-m17-19: aww the marimba solo's not there. I'm guessing you left it out so the player can take a little breath, but you could still include it as it's very much in the foreground.

I thought about this a little while back then, and I don't think there's much room for both that and the existing line to coexist in the arrangement. If you think it could work though, feel free to either show me something or suggest having another go!

I think I got the rest of the items, but lemme know if I missed something. Thanks for the detailed feedback

[Bloop]

Thank you! I probably omitted a bunch of them for a bit easier/neater playing but if you think I missed any that really should be there let me know!

Yeah leaving them out for the piano chords sounds good, there are a few melody grace notes you could include though:
-m25 b1.5, A# grace note;
-m31 b1, F# grace note;
-m39 b1, D# grace note.

I thought about this a little while back then, and I don't think there's much room for both that and the existing line to coexist in the arrangement. If you think it could work though, feel free to either show me something or suggest having another go!

After trying it out a bit myself, I felt that including the solo+chord tones underneath doesn't seem to work as much (the marimba solo accentuates a lot of non-chord tones, which will sound like chord tones if you add in a few underneath). Having only marimba+bass and nothing else would work a little better in that case, but it's up to you if you like that or only chords+bass better

m17 and m18 marimba+bass if you wanna try it out

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I think I got the rest of the items, but lemme know if I missed something.

Just these little things!
-m14: The sharp of the E# on beat 3 in the R.H. is hidden because of a hidden tie.
-m20: There are still a few F#'s in the R.H. part instead of Gn's (the ones that are in layer 1 dyads)
-m38: The E# in the R.H. on beat 2.5 is hidden because of a tie as well.
Also, did you see Code_Name_Geek's comment about the quarter triplets in m32 and 35-36? Since you have one in m25 as well, I think it makes sense to either use triplets in 32 and 35-36 too, or change m25 to be like what you have now in 32 and 35-36.

[Latios212]

Yeah leaving them out for the piano chords sounds good, there are a few melody grace notes you could include though:
-m25 b1.5, A# grace note;
-m31 b1, F# grace note;
-m39 b1, D# grace note.

They might make it a bit more annoying to play, but I added the first two. The last one didn't seem too necessary since the last note of m. 38 is the same D#

After trying it out a bit myself, I felt that including the solo+chord tones underneath doesn't seem to work as much (the marimba solo accentuates a lot of non-chord tones, which will sound like chord tones if you add in a few underneath). Having only marimba+bass and nothing else would work a little better in that case, but it's up to you if you like that or only chords+bass better

m17 and m18 marimba+bass if you wanna try it out

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Thanks for writing that out! I played around with it a little bit and I think that the flip side of having this highlight the rhythm and non-chord tones is that it sounds a little empty with only a single line. I think I would prefer to keep it as is for that reason.

Just these little things!
-m14: The sharp of the E# on beat 3 in the R.H. is hidden because of a hidden tie.
-m20: There are still a few F#'s in the R.H. part instead of Gn's (the ones that are in layer 1 dyads)
-m38: The E# in the R.H. on beat 2.5 is hidden because of a tie as well.

Oops, got these!

Wow, this is a really impressive arrangement! Great job

One thing I noticed regarding the first half of m. 32 and then all of m. 35-36: I think the RH rhythms would be easier to read as quarter note triplets (it's also the way I usually see rhythms like that written in swing charts). The way you wrote it is technically also right, though, so up to you if you want to change it or keep it.

Also, did you see Code_Name_Geek's comment about the quarter triplets in m32 and 35-36? Since you have one in m25 as well, I think it makes sense to either use triplets in 32 and 35-36 too, or change m25 to be like what you have now in 32 and 35-36.

Ah sorry I missed this! My thinking for writing it like this was that the three triplet notes are articulated the same in m. 25, whereas in 32/53-36 the ways they're articulated differs a bit and I thought writing it using this rhythm would help draw attention to that. Let me know if that doesn't really make sense though haha

Files updated!

[Bloop]

Ah sorry I missed this! My thinking for writing it like this was that the three triplet notes are articulated the same in m. 25, whereas in 32/53-36 the ways they're articulated differs a bit and I thought writing it using this rhythm would help draw attention to that. Let me know if that doesn't really make sense though haha

I think if you write them as triplets, the different articulations would be a bit easier to see as there's less visual stuff to process. In m32 the triplet is also articulated the same (so the chord on beat 2.33 should actually have a staccato dot too, now that I see it), and in 35-36 it would be just every second of the three notes having a staccato dot (and possibly the first and third notes a tenuto, but not as necessary I think)

All other changes look good! Nice work ^^

[Latios212]

Makes sense, thanks! Updated, hopefully I got it all right

[Bloop]

Yup, looks good!

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[Libera]

Well this is certainly something.  Really nice work on this one and something that the site really needs.  Nearly all of my comments are just do with bits and pieces of missing harmony and stuff I'm hearing slightly differently in the chords.  The left hand looks great, so if I say something like 'An on beat 2.5 of bar 12' I'm suggesting you add an additional An on beat 2.5 of bar 12 in the right hand.

-D on beat 1, C# on beat 1.5 of bar 8.
-E and G harmony on beat 1.666 in bar 9.
-The D# sounds like a Dn on beat 1.66 of bar 10.
-Why not have the chord come in on beat 3 of bar 13 also, kind of like you do in bar 9.  I think that would be cool and there's certainly enough space for it.  You may need to write the first chord in a second layer and mess with the voicing a little.
-G# harmony on beat 3.5 of bar 14.
-D# on beat 1.5 of bar 17.
-Might be nice to substitute the Fn in bar 18 RH for an Eb to get that F7 sound in there.  Or just add it, but maybe you want to keep the number of notes consistent and you already have an F in the bass.
-G# on beat 1 of bar 19?
-It seems like the emphasis is a little backwards in bar 21 beat 1.  To me it sounds like the hit on beat 1.5 is the one with the harmony whereas the first one just sounds like a Gn.  Maybe Gn -> Bn+Dn+En (stacked in that order) might sound better?  It'd also probably be easier to play a single note coming off of the chromatic triplet run than a chord.  Thoughts?
-C# on beat 4 of bar 23.
-If what you're doing with the harmony in bar 26 is what I think it is (using the chord that appears towards the end of the bar for harmony on beat 2.5), then I think the D# in the second chord should be a Dn and then also the E# should probably be spelt as an Fn?
-You could also put a B chord under the F# on beat 2 in bar 26 if you wanted to (like in the original).
-In the original it sounds like the little chromatic run at the end of bar 26 goes through all the notes in between G# and C# but that might be kind of annoying to play.  The main thing I'd suggest is that it seems most important to me to have the run include the note a semitone below the G# (i.e. Gn) and the one a semitone above the C# (i.e. Dn) so that you get that sound of 'sliding' off of the initial note and onto the final note.  My suggestion would be Gn -> F# -> En -> Dn for the grace notes.  Thoughts?
-D# on beat 3.5 of bar 28.
-Fn on beat 3 of bar 29, although maybe that is a little awkward.
-The A on beat 1 of bar 31 sounds like a G# to me.
-The chord on beat 1.5 of bar 33 sounds like it should have the E on top rather than the G#.
-Bn on bear 3 of bar 33.  You can substitute it for the G# if you want three notes as there's already a G# in the bass.
-The first chord in bar 37 sounds exactly like the one in bar 25 so I feel like they should match (i.e. add another Bn to the one in 37 or take it away in 25, I don't mind which).
-My comments for bar 26 mostly apply to bar 38, but interestingly the chromatic run seems to actually be different this time.  Instead of doing all the notes it skips out F# for some reason.  I guess then my recommendation would be Gn -> Fn -> En -> Dn.
-An An on beat 4 of bar 40?

That was fun to go through.  Hope it helps!

[Latios212]

Thank you for giving this a thorough look! There's a lot of small details and I think you had more fun looking over it than I had arranging it xD

Responses to a few things inline here:

-E and G harmony on beat 1.666 in bar 9. G#?
-C# on beat 4 of bar 23. I think that's a grace note to the Dn
-In the original it sounds like the little chromatic run at the end of bar 26 goes through all the notes in between G# and C# but that might be kind of annoying to play.  The main thing I'd suggest is that it seems most important to me to have the run include the note a semitone below the G# (i.e. Gn) and the one a semitone above the C# (i.e. Dn) so that you get that sound of 'sliding' off of the initial note and onto the final note.  My suggestion would be Gn -> F# -> En -> Dn for the grace notes.  Thoughts? I like that a lot better than what I had, thanks
-Fn on beat 3 of bar 29, although maybe that is a little awkward. I agree it would be good there sound-wise - how does this look?
-The chord on beat 1.5 of bar 33 sounds like it should have the E on top rather than the G#. Iinverted that to keep the G# in range of the top note - I can just cut it on beat 1.5 though

Everything else should be updated since I agree with the rest of your suggestions. Thanks again!

[Libera]

Everything looks good apart from:

-Might be nice to substitute the Fn in bar 18 RH for an Eb to get that F7 sound in there.  Or just add it, but maybe you want to keep the number of notes consistent and you already have an F in the bass.

You added an En rather than an Eb.

AND

-Why not have the chord come in on beat 3 of bar 13 also, kind of like you do in bar 9.  I think that would be cool and there's certainly enough space for it.  You may need to write the first chord in a second layer and mess with the voicing a little.

It sounds to me like the G# moves to an An on the second chord on beat 3.

Otherwise everything looks great.