[DELETED] [MUL] Iconoclasts - "Moonlight (VS Ivory Beast)" by gu

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Other
Game: Iconoclasts
Console: Multiplatform
Title: Moonlight (VS Ivory Beast)
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: gu

[gu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs4qGzpkrI4&list=RDXs4qGzpkrI4&start_radio=1

[Fantastic Ike]

Cool track! Love the iterations on Moonlight Sonata.

Some formatting things:

Arrangement and composition order should be swapped.
Credits and website url should be 10p Times New Roman, so just make it bigger. You also only need it on the first page, so you can delete the other instances.
Measure numbers at the beginning of each system would really help, especially when you have so many measure numbers squashed together.

Now onto the arrangement itself:

m25-40: Sounds like there's some chords you might be missing. Maybe have it spelled out in RH? There might be room there.

m41-48: There's probably a better way to group those rhythms. Maybe make the sixteenths on downbeats into staccato eighths to help readability?

m51-58: Best changing those staccato dotted quarters to just quarters with eighth rests, no articulation.

m107 and elsewhere: Anytime you're working with these multiple layers here, thinking you can either swap Layers 1 and 2 in order to increase clarity, or just flip the notes. Either way, you want the notes on top to be flipped up and the notes on the bottom to be flipped down, otherwise it's hard to decipher.

Overall pretty good arrangement, although it does perhaps feel a bit sparse in areas. Not sure if that's because of the limitations of the piano, or because there could be chords you can add to fill it out more. Sometimes you have to be a bit creative and don't adhere 100% to accuracy in order to make it work for piano. Hope this helps!

[gu]

Hey, thanks a lot for the help! really aprecciate the attenttion

I use Musescore to write and, although I'd given my best, there's probably still some erros in the transition to Finale Notepad. It has been a pretty exhausting process

I've implemented your ideas on the score, and did some tweaks to improve readability, but haven't been able to make those sparse parts more "full", aside some extra notes in each chord (ex: m-25 and m-107)
Anything I did was either too confusing, since both hands intersect so much, or didn't sound like the music anymore.

If anyone have it, I'd love some suggestions

[Fantastic Ike]

Yeah, I use Musescore too. It's not always easy catching every little mistake in translation

[Kricketune54]

Formatting

-There are a few areas that due to the musescore transition, will not be able to convert over properly (ex. the pedal marks). Given a little time I can make a conversion of your conversion though haha, and feel free to make a pdf and midi after you've updated your files with my other commentary.
-In addition that that bit, there are no page numbers or song titles at the top of the pages after page 1. I can't remember if I recommended checking out the MuseScore Conversion guide, which does deal with how to get these elements to carry over from MuseScore to Notepad
-The RH ties from m115 to the end (the bottom RH layer) all need to be flipped down, as well as the notes.  I know the layers can be flipped down in NotePad, and the ties should correct themselves with that
-The accents on these notes are very far away as well, but I assume they should correct with the above change.

Looking at what Fantastic Ike said, not sure if this was stuff that was forgotten when addressing his feedback but let me know if that bit about the layers makes sense!

Notes

-m29 RH I hear a C between the D and E - actually I'm pretty sure m37 RH is the same notewise as 29.
-m47-48 similar to the previous LH parts of this section, a D could go below the A here (the D being bumped up an octave)
-m49 I do not hear E's but rather a B.  I think the way the bell tones (not for whom  ), a G could go under that B
-m50 I'm not hearing it the way it is currently, but I'm assuming this is to accommodate for the fast notes.  I would consider doing something like this instead.

Spoiler

[close]

-Similarly, at the rhythm that begins at 51, I would do a pattern like this, because ostanatos at this tempo are going to be very hard or uncomfortable to play.  Feel free to do different octaves or the reverse as far as the notes I have put but just some suggestions.  I think you're good to keep what you have at m67 on.

Spoiler

[close]

[gu]

Hi Kricketune54, thanks for the feedback!

I did my best to format, but even following the Conversion guide, using Template 1.4 and the MusicXML Cleaner 1.3, I ran into some problems. Mainly, page numbers bug, and appear 'out of the page', and pedal marks continue to doesn't look right.

I was hoping that you could help me with that, if you have time, of course.

About your suggestions:

- m50 and onwards felt much more confortable to play (even though still quite hard with the added notes)
- I simplified the dynamics a lot, since most of it were pretty underwhelming anyway
- I've changed m29, m37, m47-48 and m49, but i'm not entirely sure if that's exactly what you meaned. I can change that later, if necessary

All the files were updated, fell free to submit your alterations there!

PS: Sorry for any grammar mistake or misinterpretation on my part, I'm not english fluent

[Kricketune54]

Not a problem as far as language is concerned, kudos to being able to communicate as well as you do!

I probably should've held off on my earlier comment haha so I could present it with the files.  Here they are though https://www.dropbox.com/sh/s26yge913p4rf49/AADG2adTWykzeEdTsr3ggsXGa?dl=0. 

I fixed the formatting, and I think I got everything else from your latest files, but point it out in a reply if I missed something!

Looking at my previous post, it looks like you did what I had suggested, though I think my comment about the layers was maybe not the most clear, but I think the new files should clear that up as to what I meant

[gu]

Hey, thanks a lot for the help! 

Your files have been formated basically perfectly, all I did was tweak some really small things you suggested on the previous comment and submit them.
Also, I can edit directly on Notepad now if anything needs adjustments.

Again, I really appreciate the support, transitioning between MuseScore and Notepad has been harder then actually writing.

[Whoppybones]

Never heard this song before, and it's a pretty good one, ngl. Not a bad arrangement either!

Here's my feedback:
Section 1 (before the guitar riff):
 - For m1-8 RH and m9-40 LH, I hear these notes played twice as often as they're notated (as in 16th notes EEGGBB instead of 8th EGB)
 - m25-40: The pedal markings are in the wrong place (again, it would seem).
 - m25-39: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're playing the upper string voice in the LH? While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, you also have it notated in the RH so it might be better to try and notate the bass note (an octave beneath the first note of every other measure from what I can tell) instead. Also, if you do this, you could include the bell that's played occasionally in the LH so it's in the proper octave.
 - m41-48: The staccatos are touching the note and should be moved. The slurs also look kinda funky to me, but I could be wrong there.
 - m41: I hear a B played by a bell on beat 1. It could easily be incorporated into the left hand. (Also, as a point of personal preference, I think it might look a bit better if the upper E was in the RH here, which would allow the bell to be played at the proper octave.)
 - m42 should have Gs instead of Bs (beats 3.5 and 6.5)
 - m49: The bell strikes again here (B below middle C).

By the way, great job incorporating the upper strings and bass notes into m41-48. That works really well!

Section 2
 - m50 I only hear Es
 - I hear the same bassline in m50-53 and m54-57. For m50-53 I would add in the harmonies you have in m54-57, and I would change the last 3 beats of m54-57 to match the last three beats of m50-53.
 - m53 (and 57?) LH beats 5-6: I recommend removing the lower octave from these notes as they have far less power than the preceding octaves in the same measure.
 - m59-66 LH beats 1 and 4: I hear an octave above each of these notes.
 - m67 RH: I hear the first note an octave higher than it is.
 - m68 RH: I hear the same as above - this note should be an octave up.
 - m80 RH: Beat 6 sounds like a C, not a D
 - m107: Is the dynamic in the place you meant it? I know that works if it's only for one hand, but it sounds like the dynamic change should apply to both? I'm not sure on this one, so I'm curious to know your thoughts on it.
 - m115-130: The pedal markings look a bit wonky to me here as well.

Even though I have a lot of notes, I just want to say great job on this arrangement! If you feel like I'm incorrect on any of my points, have any confusion, or just want to explain why you intentionally did what you did in certain sections, just let me know! Once again, great job!

[gu]

Hi Whoppybones, thanks for the feedback! The files have been updated

It's been a while that I've written anything so I just kinda re-writed everything again while keeping your suggetions in mind.

All of them were great. I was mostly overthinking the dynamics and voices which lead to a confusing score.

Now I've written things a little diffently. Mainly, the arpeggios that keeps repeating throughout the song are now played one octave lower. It was much easier for me to arrange this way, even though it's not quite like the original music.

I decided to keep m1-8 RH and m9-40 LH in 8ths. I'm pretty sure those notes could be more accurately written as 16ths, since they play as kinda of an "eccho", but writing them slower helped to create a more melancholic feel at the beggining, whitch I think reflects the song well.

For the second half, I've got to say I'm still a bit unsatisfied with the LH. I've implemented your ideas and they certainly help, but still really unconfortable to play and don't sound particularly good on the piano. I don't really know if this could be fixed.

These changes are, of course, open to change if necessary.

Also, I had some luck with the XMLCleaner this time, and the conversion to Finale Notepad went almost perfectly, but the pedal marks didn't appear right as ^ so I've written them with square borders to fix its positioning.

PS: Thank you for the kind words  , it really motivates doing these, and also: Play Iconoclasts! No one seems to know the game, and it's fantastic, especially the stories and characters

[Libera]

Hi gu and welcome to NinSheetMusic.  Sorry for the wait on having an updater's eyes on this submission.

First I should say that this is a very ambitious first arrangement (or first submission) and so it may take a lot of work to get it up to standards for the site.  It seems as if you're willing to put work in, so that is good!  At a glance, the notes seem to mostly be accurate.  The main issues are in terms of the presentation, and the arrangement itself.  I'm going to leave comments about the presentation out of this post, since we can always fix that stuff later.

I will say though that it may be more beneficial to you as an arranger to work on easier sheets first, rather than this one.  Given how much work I think this submission needs, you may find it easier (and more rewarding?) to submit simpler arrangements.  The rest of this post should hopefully give you some idea of what sort of stuff needs to be fixed, which may help you to make that decision.

I think you have fallen into a trap which I have seen many new arrangers do when they get to a piece that has a lot of things going on, where the arranger just picks two parts from the original and puts one in the left hand and one in the right hand.  This makes the sheet itself look fine, but it leads to arrangements that don't really reflect the original well at all.  When there are lots of different parts going on in a piece, the arranger's job is to pick the parts to keep in the original to preserve the important parts of the feel, or potentially merge parts together to create something more workable.  A great example of this issue is in bars 83-98.  Here the ostinato has come back, and so you have chosen to put the ostinato into the left hand unaltered and the melody into the RH.  This 'seems' like a reasonable choice, but it ends up with something that doesn't really resemble the energy that the original has at this point of the piece.  The guitars (bass included) and the percussion at this point are providing far more of the energy in the piece and so leaving them out makes the arrangement sound flat in comparison.  Other than dynamics, there is almost nothing distinguishing bar 83 from bar 9, but the original sounds completely different at these two points.

An even more egregious example is in bars 99-106.  Here (due to the choice of parts for the left hand) the arrangement sounds almost nothing like the original, lacking any of the energy of the original.  Similar issues crop up throughout the rest of the sheet.

Another concern is the overuse of repeated notes in the left hand.  Take bar 50 for example.  In the original the guitar varies in tone along with the percussion building up across the bar.  In the arrangement, this is just repeated Bns and sounds extremely flat and uninteresting, along with being awkward to play.  A quick improvement would be given by alternating octaves, but I think you can achieve something more interesting by thinking about the rhythms in the percussion and incorporating that somehow into the left hand pattern.  Another potential thing to do would be to add a crescendo to the bar.  The left hand in bars 60-82 also consists many repeated notes and again sounds quite flat and not particularly engaging to listen to or to perform.  In the same vein, taking inspiration from the percussion and alternating octaves and do wonders to a left hand accompaniment pattern.  The LH in bars 51-59 sounds a lot better, although this could also be improved.  The repeated top notes in the thumb on beats 3.5-4 etc. are a little awkward and could probably be ironed out with some tinkering, and the part would probably sound more natural if the lowest notes were on the strong beats of the bar, rather than the weak ones.

The difficulty in making an arrangement for this piece comes from trying to solve these two problems.  How do we create an interesting arrangement that reflects the energy from the original, whilst not being boring and repetitive?  I don't have all the answers (I'm not sure myself what exactly I would do if I had to arrange this piece), but I'm happy to help if you have any questions or need me to go more into detail about certain sections.  I can provide some suggestions if you need them for sections, but I'm not going to arrange the whole thing myself to fix this up.  That isn't really the role of updaters.

I hope that helped, and apologies if it's a bit wall of text-y.  Feel free to work on bits at a time, or focus on small sections at a time (in or out of submissions).

[gu]

Hi Libera, thank you for the attenttion!

I did felt quite unsatisfied with how this sheet was turned out, for the same reasons you pointed out, and I think it would really be better to cancel this sub, or at least give it some time and try again later.

I"ll do as you said, and try to search for easier tunes first. (I've been thiking about some from Dandara and Celeste)

A while ago I did upload an arrangement of BOTW's "Sheikah Tower Activated" which after some corrections and help from other updaters, made into the main site. That said, I would like to hear your comments on the presentation so I can improve in future submissions. After that, I might delete this submission.

Once again, thanks to you (and the others) for helping me here.
Better luck next time

[Libera]

A while ago I did upload an arrangement of BOTW's "Sheikah Tower Activated" which after some corrections and help from other updaters, made into the main site.

Ah, my apologies, I must have missed that one.

Hi Libera, thank you for the attenttion!

I did felt quite unsatisfied with how this sheet was turned out, for the same reasons you pointed out, and I think it would really be better to cancel this sub, or at least give it some time and try again later.

I"ll do as you said, and try to search for easier tunes first. (I've been thiking about some from Dandara and Celeste)

That seems sensible.  I think there are also some easier tracks from Iconoclasts, although many of them are quite awkward in a similar way to this one.  I have done a few myself but haven't submitted them...

That said, I would like to hear your comments on the presentation so I can improve in future submissions. After that, I might delete this submission.

Sure, I can give some general advice here.  Many of these things can be solved by following the formatting guidelines and using the template within.  This particular sheet has some oddities such as uneven margins and unaligned text (composer info, mini-titles, copyright etc.).  The arrangement also has too few systems per pages from page 3 onwards, but too many bars per system in places (like on the first two pages).  There are other miscellaneous things like the dynamics not being centred between the staves, ties colliding with beams (or being far too close to each other) etc.