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Author Topic: Politics  (Read 155993 times)

mikey

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2370 on: April 14, 2019, 03:06:31 AM »

I once read a new York Times article (several years old at this point, probably never finding it again) that essentially amounted to a writer asking her coworkers why people thought nyt was so biased (something outrageous like a quarter of their readers are conservative at the time) and answers ranged from "we aren't" to "the truth has a liberal bias"

Anyway if you're looking for something you can trust I've always been impressed with npr, they always seem consistently moderate and often have interesting guest speakers
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FireArrow

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2371 on: April 14, 2019, 03:12:44 AM »

There's no methodology that's the answer to everything, so the larger percentage of the body of issues you apply a set of values, and the larger extent applied - the more extreme you are. I would personally apply mostly left values with some right values, BDS and Noc would do mostly right values with some left ones. You two appear to apply conservative values to almost everything, seeing any liberal solution as immediately wrong, hence "extreme."


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FireArrow

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2372 on: April 14, 2019, 03:15:08 AM »

I once read a new York Times article (several years old at this point, probably never finding it again) that essentially amounted to a writer asking her coworkers why people thought nyt was so biased (something outrageous like a quarter of their readers are conservative at the time) and answers ranged from "we aren't" to "the truth has a liberal bias"

Anyway if you're looking for something you can trust I've always been impressed with npr, they always seem consistently moderate and often have interesting guest speakers

I absolutely love npr and support this 100% - im guilty of it being my only news source if I dont bother to research further.
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mikey

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2373 on: April 14, 2019, 03:21:07 AM »

I absolutely love npr and support this 100% - im guilty of it being my only news source if I dont bother to research further.
if you have to have only one source npr ought to be it
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Sebastian

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2374 on: April 14, 2019, 03:43:44 AM »

You two appear to apply conservative values to almost everything, seeing any liberal solution as immediately wrong, hence "extreme."
There have been conservative views I've disagreed with and liberal views I've agreed with. I don't apply conservative values to everything, but rather I do apply Biblical values to everything, which do sometimes differ with conservative views. For example, I do believe that some conservatives are a bit ugly/unkind at times (I used to be one of them back before I grew up). They like to be all "I'm gonna be a patriot" or "I'm gonna start a revolution if these dems don't shape up" or "I'm gonna drive this point into the ground no matter what."  I believe that those types of conservative ideas aren't Biblical ideas, so I guess you could say that that is one example of a differing view that I have.   
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Splatoon Inkling

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2375 on: April 14, 2019, 04:58:44 AM »

There have been conservative views I've disagreed with and liberal views I've agreed with. I don't apply conservative values to everything, but rather I do apply Biblical values to everything, which do sometimes differ with conservative views. For example, I do believe that some conservatives are a bit ugly/unkind at times (I used to be one of them back before I grew up). They like to be all "I'm gonna be a patriot" or "I'm gonna start a revolution if these dems don't shape up" or "I'm gonna drive this point into the ground no matter what."  I believe that those types of conservative ideas aren't Biblical ideas, so I guess you could say that that is one example of a differing view that I have.
I actually do have to agree on this one. And yes I'm conservative, but I don't think it's a solution to everything at all. But I'm not about to side with liberalism as they are totally against Christians. The true problem with this country is sin. We have strayed so far away from the Bible in just about every aspect. We need Jesus, we need the bible. Jesus is the answer to our problems. God puts leaders in there place to serve his purpose. I believe God has put Trump in office to help hold back the evil that is to come for a while. No doubt our country is drifting further into sin. The bible says that we will be persecuted and hated because we are not of the world. That is true Christians. Our problem is rebellion against God, and the only way to fix our problems is to return back to him. There truly is no political leader who can fix that.
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mikey

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2376 on: April 14, 2019, 05:15:51 AM »

Hey FireArrow are you totally against Christians?
No?

Now where on earth did our good friend splatoon inkling get that idea...
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mikey

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2377 on: April 14, 2019, 05:18:28 AM »

Also this is straying into religious discussion but God didn't anoint Trump man
How "christlike" is trump?
Attributes of Christ include:
Loving
Humble
Meek
Selfless
Merciful

How many of these words truthfully describe our president?
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Splatoon Inkling

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2378 on: April 14, 2019, 05:26:22 AM »

I am, saying that God puts our leaders into place, and takes leaders out. I'm saying our nation has chosen to reject God, and is the reason why we have so many problems today. Yet God can use even worldly people to accomplish his purpose. Trump too is a lost and hell bound sinner just like everyone else if they don't accept Christ as their savior, and I do pray for his salvatian. He claims to be a Christian, I'm not totally sure of it, but I am praying.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2019, 05:38:28 AM by Splatoon Inkling »
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mikey

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2379 on: April 14, 2019, 05:45:44 AM »

I am, saying that God puts our leaders into place, and takes leaders out. I'm saying our nation has chosen to reject God, and is the reason why we have so many problems today. Yet God can use even worldly people to accomplish his purpose. Trump too is a lost and he'll bound sinner just like everyone else, and I do pray for his salvatian. He claims to be a Christian, I'm not totally sure of it, but I am praying.
Monarchs claiming to be chosen by god is exactly what kept europe in the dark ages for hundreds of years.  I agree that america as a whole is turning away from the concept of traditional theism and I think it's causing problems.  But if I was to choose a politician to represent conservative christianity, trump is never in a million years my choice.  I liked McMullen and Cruz quite a lot and the fact that Trump was nominated over them shows that conservative christians in general are likely more of a minority among conservatives nowadays.  The idea that Trump is some warrior chosen by god is heartwarming but to suggest our political leader is chosen/predetermined kind of undermines the concept of free agency.  Humanity as a whole is allowed to make poor decisions- Trump is one of them.  God ain't gonna come down and say "nope try again" unless your name is specifically David son of Jesse (well actually that was Jesus!), so I guess if that's your idea of being chosen then sure, he's chosen.  I really don't think that as christians we should be pushing trump as a holy man.
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Splatoon Inkling

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2380 on: April 14, 2019, 05:57:10 AM »

I did support Cruz, as he is a Christian, but he is just another politician, and he wouldn't have been as strong of a leader as Trump. God is ultimately in control of what happens. Trump is obviously not a holy man, but that's why we need to pray for him and for our leaders.
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mikey

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2381 on: April 14, 2019, 06:06:18 AM »

I did support Cruz, as he is a Christian, but he is just another politician, and he wouldn't have been as strong of a leader as Trump. God is ultimately in control of what happens. Trump is obviously not a holy man, but that's why we need to pray for him and for our leaders.
God's omnipotent, not controlling.  If he was, we wouldn't be able to choose, then at that point wouldn't it just be God saying who gets to go to heaven or not?  Seems like a broken system :p
Again, I think Trump does not exhibit qualities best suited for leaders whatsoever.  No love, no humility, no selflessness whatsoever.  Being a leader isn't about aggression.  While cruz didn't necessarily display traits like this in spades to the degree that people like Jefferson or Eisenhower did, he definitely has the qualities that Trump doesn't and in the modern era would make a fine leader.  You're probably gonna hate to hear this but I think it's true:  Obama is a better leader than trump is.
I like the notion of praying for the success of our leaders.
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BlackDragonSlayer

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2382 on: April 14, 2019, 06:20:54 AM »

God's omnipotent, not controlling.
Not to get too much into religion, but I agree with this. I think God gives humans the free will to decide their own fate, even if that leads to problems. I'm not really a fan of people who turn to inaction because they believe that God is going to run their life for them.
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Pianist Da Sootopolis

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2383 on: April 14, 2019, 10:27:00 AM »

The reason that "liberal bias" seems so rare in the U.S. is because what the U.S. perceives as liberal or leftist is nowhere remotely that almost anywhere else in the world.

In the United States, universal healthcare is considered a radically liberal idea. Everywhere else in the industrialized world disagrees; profits should not be put before people's lives. Private market health care is more costly and gives lower quality outcomes to the majority of people, because it rations care based on the size of someone's wallet rather than need (as you might find in other nations).

The idea of taxing income past 10,000,000 at 70% was labelled an insane idea when Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez proposed it, but the vast majority of the rest of the world has comparable tax rates. In fact, during the golden age of economic expansion in the United States, the post-war 1950s, our top marginal tax rate was 90%.

The Overton Window (ideological views considered acceptable in mainstream discourse) has been shifting further, and further, and further, and further, and further to the right in America for so long now that Obamacare was called a liberal plan, despite being originally proposed by the Heritage Foundation.

Similarly, Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to over a million undocumented immigrants. Now, the supposed "crisis" on our southern border has people believing completely made up statements like "thousands of people are pouring in every day."

BTW, again, if you want to stop the immigration issue, end the war on drugs.

Splatoon, with all due respect, it doesn't seem to me that there's anything Donald Trump could do to be the wrong leader, based on your statements. If Trump were actually a biblical man, of course, he would be being held up and praised. But if he's not biblical, then we just pray for him. If God is ultimately in control of everything, then why ever care about politics at all?

I'd be interested to see which policies of Trump's you think are good, specifically as it pertains to biblical values. In particular, verses like:

I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me.
Matthew 25:35

The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.
Leviticus 19:34

You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 10:19
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FireArrow

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Re: Politics
« Reply #2384 on: April 14, 2019, 12:21:55 PM »

There have been conservative views I've disagreed with and liberal views I've agreed with. I don't apply conservative values to everything, but rather I do apply Biblical values to everything, which do sometimes differ with conservative views. For example, I do believe that some conservatives are a bit ugly/unkind at times (I used to be one of them back before I grew up). They like to be all "I'm gonna be a patriot" or "I'm gonna start a revolution if these dems don't shape up" or "I'm gonna drive this point into the ground no matter what."  I believe that those types of conservative ideas aren't Biblical ideas, so I guess you could say that that is one example of a differing view that I have.
I actually do have to agree on this one. And yes I'm conservative, but I don't think it's a solution to everything at all. But I'm not about to side with liberalism as they are totally against Christians. The true problem with this country is sin. We have strayed so far away from the Bible in just about every aspect. We need Jesus, we need the bible. Jesus is the answer to our problems. God puts leaders in there place to serve his purpose. I believe God has put Trump in office to help hold back the evil that is to come for a while. No doubt our country is drifting further into sin. The bible says that we will be persecuted and hated because we are not of the world. That is true Christians. Our problem is rebellion against God, and the only way to fix our problems is to return back to him. There truly is no political leader who can fix that.

I'm using conservative with christian interchangeably - which direction your extremism comes from is not important, my point still stands. Christian values aren't immune to scrutiny intrinsically and pretending otherwise would be intellectually dishonest because they aren't homogeneous. What makes your interpretation of christian values better than Obama's, Alexandria Cortez's, Hillary Clinton's? What about Noc, BDS, or any other more conservative Christians on NSM who feels alienated by trump? Prove to me that "Christian Values" isn't just a pretext to pretend righteousness in bias and absolve need for evidence.

Also inkling my dude if god put trump in office that also means he put obama in office like this idea of divine right does not follow. If god exists he's got much better ways of saving us than getting into politics
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