How do you guys recognize notes so easily?

[Jompa]

So you mean to rely on memory then? That is possible.
But I really wouldn't count on anyone saying they "remember" the pitch, though. I mean, that could be messed up (and likely will be) just from listening to a different song. It also sound exhausting to have to focus on keeping the pitch all the time..
Just wondering; can you do this?

^Also: if you know the pitch of one song without any reference, then you can basically tell any pitch there is.
So you would just have to remember Moonlight Sonata, and be able to tell if a song is in lets say F major. Right?

[Ricky]

So you mean to rely on memory then? That is possible.
But I really wouldn't count on anyone saying they "remember" the pitch, though. I mean, that could be messed up (and likely will be) just from listening to a different song. It also sound exhausting to have to focus on keeping the pitch all the time..

What I'm currently referring to is the ability to recognize a pitch when hearing it, not actually being able to lets say reproduce the pitch with your voice or just think about and be sure it's an Ab I'm thinking about. But ofc, the thinking and singing part is also practicable. I just tested and my thought wasn't too far away from a correct C for example. No, there's no need to focus on keeping the pitch all the time. You need to practice it sometimes yeah but I never go around and think, I need to keep that C, I need to keep that C.

Just wondering; can you do this?

^Also: if you know the pitch of one song without any reference, then you can basically tell any pitch there is.
So you would just have to remember Moonlight Sonata, and be able to tell if a song is in lets say F major. Right?

I guess so, I haven't really practiced it but could be a good idea. My pitch recognition isn't so good to directly tell in which key a piece is. Yes, there are degrees of "perfect" pitch and in the end it's all about memory (those with the seemingly magical perfect pitch ability from young age probably were exposed to more than average amount of music at young age so that memory got strongly implanted). I don't believe there's a perfect pitch gene.

[JDMEK5]

So you mean to rely on memory then? That is possible.

When I was much younger I used to dream of recognizing notes by sound, and the only way I could think to do that was by memory.
So I would play and hum middle C over and over and over again.
I haven't done that in a long time but guess what? I can instantly hum a middle C whenever I want.
Memory works better than you think, but it takes time.

[Jompa]

Yes, there are degrees of "perfect" pitch and in the end it's all about memory (those with the seemingly magical perfect pitch ability from young age probably were exposed to more than average amount of music at young age so that memory got strongly implanted). I don't believe there's a perfect pitch gene.

What I am going to write now are facts:
Perfect pitch does not have any degree - there is absolutely no way. If you believe that, then I think you should consider checking your source of that information.
There is no perfect pitch gene. As you said.
Absolute pitch is a bit of a mystery, when it comes to how a person gets it, but it is believed that something triggers it at young age. It is not likely that it is triggered by "exposed by a lot of music" - think about it, you have to agree, that just sounds like fantasy.
And lastly, Memory: The "memory"-part of absolute pitch is not about remembering the pitch of something because you have heard it a lot. It may seem like a way to find pitches, but this is not absolute pitch at all, and as I have already said: it is not reliable.

me not being convinced by pitch paths

I just looked up pitch paths, and most of my hits were just optimistic self-overrating (which doesn't work), and what seems to work turns out to actually need a starting note of sorts from an outside source - and once that is in the game, you are on intervals, and not pitch hearing.

[close]

In absolute pitch, IF YOU ARE A MUSICIAN, you may have learned what each note you hear is called, so basically you know exactly how a G sounds. That's the role memory plays.

In absolute pitch there are some seemingly over-natural benefits as well: Like hearing the tiniest differences between two glasses of the same kind clinging, or being able to transcribe a the sound of a car breaking <-- I've seen both these cases in action :O It's nuts!

What I'm currently referring to is the ability to recognize a pitch when hearing it, not actually being able to lets say reproduce the pitch with your voice or just think about and be sure it's an Ab I'm thinking about. But ofc, the thinking and singing part is also practicable. I just tested and my thought wasn't too far away from a correct C for example. No, there's no need to focus on keeping the pitch all the time. You need to practice it sometimes yeah but I never go around and think, I need to keep that C, I need to keep that C.

If you can't sing an Ab out of nowhere then you can't just recognize it either. I would call that more or less self-contradicting.
Did you get a C? Or did you get a note that "wasn't too far away" like B or C# (it really doesn't count if you missed by half a tone)? That C could easily have come from a reference, like the last song you heard. Either way, since you missed slightly, it must have been at the very least slightly messed up since the last time you heard a C?
You know, since I am decided on the fact that you can only do this with absolute pitch, I don't believe that this was a case of your "burnt into your brain as a C"-memory, but rather a case of reference+intervals, simply reference or simply luck.

If you know the pitch of one song without any reference, then you can tell any pitch there is.
So you would just have to remember Moonlight Sonata, and be able to tell if a song is in lets say F major. Or any other songs pitch for that matter. Intervals.

But I still don't believe the whole pitch paths thing works. Don't forget, a note would have to be remembered for a long time - I call it unreliable.

When I was much younger I used to dream of recognizing notes by sound, and the only way I could think to do that was by memory.
So I would play and hum middle C over and over and over again.
I haven't done that in a long time but guess what? I can instantly hum a middle C whenever I want.
Memory works better than you think, but it takes time.

But you don't have absolute pitch? Then I wouldn't call that middle C reliable - it could be messed up by anything.

[SlowPokemon]

Jompa, you're sounding like a dick. Absolute pitch DOES NOT MATTER A TINY BIT and if you don't have it IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD MUSICIAN. I don't see anything special about people with perfect pitch.

[Ricky]

It's hard to argue with you cause no matter what I tell you think I'm more or less not telling the truth. Pitch Paths works, it works for me, it probably worked for others. There is a degree of perfect pitch, are you sure everyone with perfect pitch can really recognize such tiny differences in pitch? So you're saying that if you can recognize all the 12 tones played on an instrument but can't say lets say in which pitches the wind is sounding you don't have perfect pitch. Perfect pitch if not maintained can be made worse or "lost". So, that's another way in which perfect pitch can vary (i.e. different degrees). You're also claiming that there always have to be a reference with the Pitch Paths method, yes that's called long term memory as I already said. Once you learn the associations and implant them well in your memories they are there. Recognizing something you hear when hearing it doesn't equal to being able to recall it. Lets take an example: You may recognize a piece of music you've heard when hearing it but if you were asked how that piece goes without being able to recall it would be harder, especially if you are supposed to sing it. For example I could be asked how Mozart's 20th symphony goes, I probably wouldn't be able to recall it eventhough I've heard it but if I would listen to it there's a better chance I would recognize it. I admit that my recognition isn't 100% correct all the time because I don't practice perfect pitch so much. The more you practice the better you get (just like with any skill). I guess you will deny what I'm saying again anyways.

I would like to rephrase what SlowPokemon wrote: Absolute pitch matters but recognition of intervals, rhythm, chords, scales, instruments etc. is also important.

[Jompa]

Absolute pitch DOES NOT MATTER A TINY BIT and if you don't have it IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU A BAD MUSICIAN. I don't see anything special about people with perfect pitch.

is that pointed towards me? Because I've never said anything that suggests otherwise.

Ricky, there can't be a degree of absolute pitch - this is explanatory, nd if you wish, I can explain that.
Absolute pitch won't ever be lost or made worse.
The "magical cases" I toldyou are true. But you mentioned the wind? I know you are trying to make me sound foolish, but there is a difference between pitching a car breaking and the wind.
And the reason the pitch path method doesn't work is because it is basing on memory. You can't disgree with the fact that it will easily get messed around, affected by what you listen to (which is the outside source).

Different subject kinda (in responce to your rephrasing of Slow):
Why does absolute pitch matter?

[JDMEK5]

But you don't have absolute pitch? Then I wouldn't call that middle C reliable - it could be messed up by anything.

I do have absolute pitch. But the middle C is the only note I can hum spontaneously without having to think of that note in a song.
(e.g. When I need to hum a G, I hum the first note of the Opening from Pokemon B/R/Y)

[Jompa]

But if you have a C, then you have every other note as well - as you can easily hear the interval between this C and everything else:) right?

[Ricky]

Ricky, there can't be a degree of absolute pitch - this is explanatory, nd if you wish, I can explain that.
Absolute pitch won't ever be lost or made worse.
The "magical cases" I toldyou are true. But you mentioned the wind? I know you are trying to make me sound foolish, but there is a difference between pitching a car breaking and the wind.
And the reason the pitch path method doesn't work is because it is basing on memory. You can't disgree with the fact that it will easily get messed around, affected by what you listen to (which is the outside source).

Different subject kinda (in responce to your rephrasing of Slow):
Why does absolute pitch matter?

Well, lets use a reliable source (The University of Texas) and see what they say.
1. "People who have AP will generally lose it if it is useless to them." There you have it, like I said.

2. "In addition, some people have AP only for their principal instrument or the instrument that they learned first. In 1981, G. R. Lockhead and R. Byrd reported that some of their pianist subjects could identify 90% of pitches played on a piano but only 60% of pitches on another instrument." One more example of degree of absolute pitch. Told you so.

3.  "Infant AP could be useful for learning some Asian languages, where the same sound pronounced at two different pitches often represents two different words with different meanings. Diana Deutsch, a psychologist at the University of California, San Diego, demonstrated that native Vietnamese and Mandarin Chinese speakers (not necessarily musicians) may use AP in speech. Researchers asked Vietnamese speakers to read rapidly a list of words spanning the range of tones in Vietnamese, then to perform the same task a day later. The subjects' pitch over the two days was very consistent, with an average variation of only 1.1 semitone. Mandarin speakers were also asked to read several words spanning the range of tones in their language, but their task was slightly different: to read one word, then to repeat it twenty seconds later. The next day, they performed the same task. The Mandarin speakers also exhibited great consistency in pitch, showing an average variation of only half a semitone between any two readings. In a way, these Vietnamese and Mandarin speakers displayed Levitin's pitch memory and pitch labeling, by associating certain pitches with certain words." So if you believe that there is no perfect pitch gene (which is one of the few things we agree on) then these Vietnamese and Mandarin speakers aren't really that much different when compared to others in that regard. Yet they learn a language that requires at least some degree of AP. This shows that AP can be learnt and also shows (see bold text) that association is a way for aquiring AP (in their case with words, in other cases for example with melodies). This in turn gives a proof to the idea that AP in fact is a memory thing. This is ofc if there isn't a perfect pitch gene.

Yes things that depend on memory is unreliable. Even if you can memorize the 10000s of pi's decimals (something accomplishable by anyone who doesn't have a brain damage affecting the memory and who does lots of practice using memory techniques, but probably one of the most useless things to memorize either way) if you're tested you can always get something wrong and mess up the whole thing. Are you sure someone with absolute pitch is 100% accurate at all times? You know what the difference is between the being able to tell the pitches of a car breaking and lets say recognizing only most pitches and only in most cases? Memory! For example if the C pitch is very deeply implanted in your memory then you will get the C correct most of the time if not so often that it's basically always.

Why is perfect picth good to have? I will quote The Fundamentals of Piano Practice:

"Having PP is clearly an advantage. It is a great help for memorizing, sight reading, and recovering from blackouts, and for composing music. You can be the pitch pipe for your choir, and easily tune string or wind instruments. It is a lot of fun because you can tell how fast a car is going by just listening to the tires whine, you can tell the differences between different car horns and locomotive whistles, especially by noting whether they use thirds or fifths. You can remember telephone numbers easily by their tones."

[Jompa]

We are going so far away from what this thread is about now, hahah..

As a reply to your quotes from your reliable source:
I see all over the place that it says that these are theories and proposals - not sure how that is gonna win me over. For your first quote it even says "hypothesized"

Yes things that depend on memory is unreliable.
Are you sure someone with absolute pitch is 100% accurate at all times? You know what the difference is between the being able to tell the pitches of a car breaking and lets say recognizing only most pitches and only in most cases? Memory! For example if the C pitch is very deeply implanted in your memory then you will get the C correct most of the time if not so often that it's basically always.

If you have absolute pitch, then you have absolute pitch. If you are a musician, and has learnt what each tone is called, then yes, you will get it correct each time, because that is what absolute pitch is.

Here are a two different quotes (from myself) about why a memorized pitch is unreliable:
"Oh my god, that guy's memory is unreliable, because I don't thrust that he has memorized what he should have"
"Oh my god, that guy's memory is unreliable, because the information will more or less be replaced every time he is exposed to new information"
Out of the two quotes above, I belong to the latter. You have so far been treating the discussion as if I belong to the first one.
It's not interesting how long you can remember the tonic after the last time you played moonlight sonata in the piano, but when that pitch is going to get pushed around by all the music you will listen to between that and when you are going to give the same tonic again, it is likely not going to be the same tonic in your head anymore. Unless, you have absolute pitch.

And since you keep using the "one note implanted"-situation:
If you have a C implanted, then you have ALL notes implanted. And then you have absolute pitch. And therefore, since you have this C as a source, it is totally possible to pitch a car breaking, or anything for that matter. Congratulations, you can now hear anything - that is, if you actually can remember a C at all times

Why is perfect picth good to have? I will quote The Fundamentals of Piano Practice:

Well, I didn't exactly want to know that, because it is obviously good to have.
What I meant was: Why is perfect pitch so important that you chose to rephrase Slow's motivational quote, and seemingly listing it over other things, like intervals?
It is not like you become a bad musician if you don't have absolute pitch. Haha, wouldn't that be sad? And you don't become a good musician just by having it.

[Ricky]

Yes, these are theories but they are based on actual studies. Where are your sources that say that absolute pitch is not memory based? And on what would it be based if not on memory? Yes if you remember a C at all times and have a good relative pitch it's probably possible to pitch a car breaking.

About the rephrasing. I guess I changed what Slow said quite much but either way I wasn't really listing it over those things. I was treating them simply as examples of important things to learn. Besides isn't absolute pitch more powerful anyway (for the reasons mentioned in the quote and because you can always hear the correct pitches instead of only hearing the intervals)?

So what's the thing inbetween called when you don't have absolute pitch according to your definition but has it partially (lets say better pitch recognition for a specific instrument than others or maybe not being 100% accurate all the time)?

[Jompa]

Oh, well I too think it is memory based, of course, but I just don't agree that people without it can use memory to keep a pitch. I mean, they practically speaking do have absolute pitch if they can hum a C at any time - because then you would always have a determined pitch to use. So this is what I don't believe.

If absolute pitch is more powerful? You could say that, yes, but according to your source only 1 in 10 000 people have it. So it doesn't matter at all to those people. So I don't think it should be listed with the other things.

If you have absolute pitch then you should be able to determine any note played for you.
For what it is worth, I just heard a tenor sax over the radio, and I managed to hear when the sax played an A 8va the ledges, because I recognize how the sax sounds at that note (all saxophonists know what I mean). I dunno about piano, but I could use that A to determine stuff.
But really, i don't know. I'm not sure if I even believe that those piano exmples are cases of pitching without a reference - so I guess I don't have any arguement here.

[JDMEK5]

If you have absolute pitch then you should be able to determine any note played for you.
For what it is worth, I just heard a tenor sax over the radio, and I managed to hear when the sax played an A 8va the ledges, because I recognize how the sax sounds at that note (all saxophonists know what I mean). I dunno about piano, but I could use that A to determine stuff.

^Exactly my case with the middle C on piano. But I don't trust myself enough with intervals to branch everything off the C so I mentally listen to a song that has said note (that's not middle C) nice and clear so I can hum it directly to that. That's how I hit a note spontaneously.

As for recognizing notes, sometimes I'll do the reverse of the 'listen-to-song-with-note-in-it' method, sometimes I'll just be able to tell from hearing that note so much (only works with some notes), or sometimes I'll just have a gut feeling telling me what it is.
That last one happened to me the other day. There was this band playing a song I knew but forgot about for 10+ years and my "musical instinct" (if you will) said, "E, E, E, F#, G, E, D, D, C#, D, G, etc..." I didn't trust myself enough to use the note names to give the band leader to distinguish the song that I wanted the music for, but once I got the sheet, I found that I could've. I had it right on.

[Jompa]

Then relative pitch should make you hear any note in the whole world:)