What key/time signature is this song in?

Started by The Deku Trombonist, March 24, 2013, 03:27:01 PM

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Jompa

I'd do as FierceDeity says, but I would use 6/8 instead of 12/8 in the beginning, because if you listen to it, I think it's pretty obvious that the stress on the beats indicates that each measure only has two beats -> 6/8.

And for the Dark Pit Theme part (where FierceDeity said to use 4/4), I'd recommend using 2/2 (cut time) (with underlying eights), or 2/4 (with underlying sixteenths) - for the same reasons as above actually - there are only two beats per measure anyhow you look at it, so using 4/4 (both with underlying sixteenths, and underlying eights in a fast tempo) is kinda like using 16/4 or 64/4 - they all go up in four, but the first beats are on every second beat, meaning 2/2 or 2/4.
Birdo for Smash

FierceDeity

#136
I agree with the cut time, actually. I was thinking about that before, but for some reason decided against it.
As for the beginning, are you sure? There may only be two beats stressed, but they're beats 1 and 3 (if, you know, a beat is a dotted quarter) of a 12/8 bar. In the main melody, for example, the C and B leading down to the A would be the 5th and 6th eighth notes of the bar, and then the 11th and 12th. Either way, if it's in 6/8, it's still in 2-bar groupings. I don't have too much of a preference for either one, just saying that 12/8 is reasonable.

EDIT: Oh wait, are you thinking of it as half the speed that I'm thinking of it as? Because I'm saying 12/8 at like dotted quarter note = 142 or so.
I feel like that speed makes more sense, because while 6/8 at half tempo technically works, it feels a little weird to use sixteenth notes as the base rhythm in compound time, not to mention you're gonna run into some weird duple stuff.

Jompa

Quote from: FierceDeity on September 23, 2013, 10:11:10 AMOh wait, are you thinking of it as half the speed that I'm thinking of it as? Because I'm saying 12/8 at like dotted quarter note = 142 or so.
No, I mean, it should be the same speed, but the measures aren't four beats long, they're two beats long. That's what I'm saying. 6/8 at 142 bpm.
It isn't only because of the stressed beats thing (because this is not as strict),
but mainly because the musical phrasing in this case is 6/8 - there's definitely no doubt about that - in contrast to the later pieces in this medley that use 12/8.
I'd go as far as saying that 12/8 is wrong in this case (that's just me though) - it will definitely be inelegant.
Birdo for Smash

FierceDeity


Shaletome

I'm not sure if this is time signature, but for the song, "Minor Circuit," (http://dl1.ffshrine.org/soundtracks/dl/1809/755115/Super%20Punch-Out!!%20Original%20Game%20Rip/12_-_minor_circuit_bout.mp3) from Super Punch Out, I am not sure where beat 1 is and or if it changes. Here is what I have made so far: https://www.dropbox.com/s/nzjxae2njapxu0s/Minor%20Circuit-Incomplete.pdf
I thought it was an 8th note followed by 6 16th notes starting the first (full) measure, but as I listened, around measures 8 and 9, I got really confused and pulled everything back a sixteenth note, but again going through it, that didn't sound right either. If you can tell where each beat is, help would be greatly appreciated.
     Thanks, Shaletome

Jompa

It's in 4/4 yes, but the entire arrangement is one sixteenth ahead of what it should be, so just adjust everything according to that
Birdo for Smash

Shaletome

You mean that it should be https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf4pyy966tswey1/Minor%20Circuit%3E-Incomplete.pdf like I had before I put it back a beat and the snare drum backbeat is on the fourth 16th note in every beat? You think the drums just play a normal beat one 16th note off?

Jompa

You shouldn't think of it as "a sixteenth off". The song is like that, so nothing is really off with it. The snare notes are just placed on syncopations.
The snare drum doesn't really affect the time signature anyway, and vice versa. I mean, why would they even? What matters is the pulse! You could say it's the feeling of the beats. If the snare notes don't follow the beats exactly, then that's their own thing, it is not the pulse that is wrong. Rule: If it doesn't affect the feeling, then it doesn't affect the time sig.
Nothing wrong with having the snare drum on whatever piece of the measure, really - and it's not even that un-normal for it to be on whatever syncopation.
Yes, that last version is the right one.

I want to suggest that you double all note values, and double the speed (could be solved with alla breve) - the way you have it now, you kinda have all measures split into two - idk how to explain that very well, but it has to do with phrasing - it'd be better if the measures were halved basically, and the best way to do that is to double the note values (rather than changing it into 4/8 or 2/4 (which could also be done btw, if you wan't to save yourself a lot of work)).
Now it's like you have two "intended" measures in one of your measures.
Birdo for Smash

Sebastian

I know it is 4/4 up to 0:19 then what??
Here is what I think. It is 4/4 upt 0:19, then 3/4 for a couple bars, then 5/4 for one bar, then I cant figure it out from there on out
PLEASE correct me if I am wrong



FierceDeity

Psst, MLF, you forgot something ;)


Unlike the last one you were asking about, this one can actually just be all in 4/4. The accent pattern "1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4" is a totally acceptable syncopation in 4/4, especially when it starts itself back up again on beat 1 of the next measure like it does here. That's actually a rhythmic motif in this piece. At the beginning, it follows the form of "dotted quarter note, dotted quarter note, quarter note"; in the section you're concerned with, it's the same thing, just with double the note lengths, i.e. "dotted half note, dotted half note, half note".
Lemme know if you need more explanation as to why, but yeah, it's all in 4/4.

Sebastian

I knew I forgot something :)
Thank you very much.
I think I understand what you are saying



FierceDeity


Sebastian

I need this question answered ASAP: How do you know when to put a sharp or a flat?
I am working on Overthere Stair and Fort Francis from Super Paper Mario and they have an evil amount of accidentals. I am always being asked to change from flat to sharp or sharp to flat in a lot of my songs. So, I would like to learn how to do that...



FireArrow

I think I'm finally capable of answering that. :)

1. Look at the harmony and analyze the chord (use an F# instead of a Gb if it's a D chord.)
2. Look at the motion of the melody. If it's going upward, use sharps, if it's moving downward, use flats.
3. If all else fails, just make it easier to read.

If you post a mus I could give you more specific help.
Quote from: Dudeman on January 23, 2017, 05:35:59 PM
straight from the department of redundancy department

Sebastian

Thank You very much Firearrow :) If I need help, Ill pm you


What key is this song in (I think I know, I just want to make sure)?