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Questions About Arranging

Started by braix, June 02, 2014, 07:14:47 PM

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braix

What exactly do you guys look for when you're arranging it by ear? What do you do with songs that have multiple voices? What about songs that have a lot of strings instruments and stuff that makes it hard to hear any notes? Finding the (quiet)bass line? Adding harmony? Easy way to find the key?
I doubt I'll ever stop posting in the help thread. xD
Quote from: MaestroUGC on August 19, 2015, 12:22:27 PM
Braixen is a wonderful [insert gender] with beautiful [corresponding gender trait] and is just the darlingest at [stereotypical activity typically associated with said gender] you ever saw.

FireArrow

Uh, there's no "trick" to hearing things you can't hear. Either you can or you can't. An important step to transcribing things that you can hear that you may be missing is humming it. Listen to the counter melody (or whatever quite voice you can't quite make out) and listen to it over and over again until you can hum it. Once you can, figure it out on a keyboard.

For finding key signatures, I just play the melody on the keyboard until it becomes obvious. Alternatively, just listen for the tonic.
Quote from: Dudeman on January 23, 2017, 05:35:59 PM
straight from the department of redundancy department

Maelstrom

I'm new at this, but I'll give you my strategy. I download the song, slow it down with audacity if necessary, and basically mess around on a keyboard until I figure out all the notes. The key signature is easy: just play the song and figure out a few notes. About 75% of songs end or start on the note of the key. If all else fails, try to figure out a scale that the few notes you figured out are in. I have a terrible time picking out other instruments when the strings are just too loud. If anyone has any suggestions, I could use them. With multiple voices, pick the main ones and any others that are in the same range that the other notes are in. A lot of the time, you will just need to drop a voice or two to fit everything in.

mikey

Quote from: maelstrom. on June 02, 2014, 08:10:02 PMAbout 75% of songs end on the note of the key.
Many more than that my friend
unmotivated

Maelstrom

Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on June 03, 2014, 07:44:05 AMMany more than that my friend
There is a lot of very strange music out there. But, yeah, most of the arrangeable video game music would do that.

FireArrow

I'd say many less, a lot of times songs/pieces (what do you call video game music, it's kinda both) will start on the fifth. I think a more accurate thing to say it would be 80% of songs start on the tonic chord (chord of the key.)
Quote from: Dudeman on January 23, 2017, 05:35:59 PM
straight from the department of redundancy department

FierceDeity

Quote from: maelstrom. on June 02, 2014, 08:10:02 PMAbout 75% of songs end or start on the note of the key.
Quote from: FireArrow on June 03, 2014, 01:09:15 PMI'd say many less, a lot of times songs/pieces (what do you call video game music, it's kinda both) will start on the fifth. I think a more accurate thing to say it would be 80% of songs start on the tonic chord (chord of the key.)

In classical counterpoint, the upper voice begins on the tonic (1st note of the scale), mediant (3rd note of the scale), or dominant (5th note of the scale), and ends on the tonic. However, comparatively few video game pieces actually follow this, largely because classical counterpoint rules are far from compositional law (even for classical composers), and largely because the "end", according to the sheet music, is often leading back to the beginning, and so the last written chord will often be the dominant (V). But really, I digress, because there are no set "rules" for video game compositions (they can span a wide range of genres that are in themselves undefined), and so the most helpful recommendation I can make here is regarding ear training.

This website can be really helpful. In "Exercises", under "Ear Training", start with "Intervals". In the customizable settings in the top right, I'd recommend starting with ascending only, then descending only, then ascending harmonic with descending harmonic, and then just harmonic. Practice identifying every interval in each setting, and when you no longer get any wrong, move on to the next setting. Literally all of ear training is based off of interval recognition. Scales, chords, everything. So, once you're good on those, I'd recommend moving onto chords. In the customizable settings, I'd recommend a similar process: starting with root position chords only (i.e. turn off inversions), go ascending only, descending only, ascending harmonic with descending harmonic, and then just harmonic. Possibly just limit yourself to triads at first, or really whatever ones you're comfortable with. And definitely practice the scales section somewhere in there, too.
Keep in mind, I make this recommendation without really knowing what point you're at in music theory/ear training, so start at whatever point you feel comfortable, and clarify the music theory for yourself in the Lessons section of the site if you need to. (Definitely don't neglect the plain ol' music theory exercises, either!)

But the point is, to determine what key you're in, or to pick out notes within a chord with difficult or overbearing timbres, or anything like that, you're going to have to do some ear training. People make recommendations like "Hum a note, and whatever note seems most obvious that's the key you're in", but that really requires a certain level of subconscious ear training (without the conscious aspect, even). Really, once you're transcribing accurately, you'll typically be able to notice from the chords and scales what key you're in, and it'll get quicker and quicker with every arrangement. The tonic note, or tonic chord (which will, more often than any other chord, be the first chord of the piece), will eventually become apparent; it's the one thing that everything is leading back to.

I'm no theory professor, so I'm sure somebody else could explain the process better than I can. The point is, practice makes perfect. Whether that comes from painstakingly writing down every note in an arrangement until you have a completed scale, or spending a bunch of time on a music theory website, that's what needs to happen.

FireArrow

Quote from: FierceDeity on June 21, 2014, 10:17:29 PMIn classical counterpoint, the upper voice begins on the tonic (1st note of the scale), mediant (3rd note of the scale), or dominant (5th note of the scale), and ends on the tonic. However, comparatively few video game pieces actually follow this, largely because classical counterpoint rules are far from compositional law (even for classical composers), and largely because the "end", according to the sheet music, is often leading back to the beginning, and so the last written chord will often be the dominant (V). But really, I digress, because there are no set "rules" for video game compositions (they can span a wide range of genres that are in themselves undefined), and so the most helpful recommendation I can make here is regarding ear training.

Classical counter point is a completely different ball game and has very little relevance to video game music. I mean, even in this song they decide to lead into the theme with a diminished chord. I think your last sentence should be considered the golden rule of arranging, too many times I see people say "It can't be that because of theory." They could right a homophonic gigue and nobody would stop them.
Quote from: Dudeman on January 23, 2017, 05:35:59 PM
straight from the department of redundancy department

JDMEK5

#8
Quote from: FierceDeity on June 21, 2014, 10:17:29 PMI'm no theory professor, so I'm sure somebody else could explain the process better than I can.
Where's Jompa?

Quote from: FierceDeity on June 21, 2014, 10:17:29 PMThe point is, practice makes perfect. Whether that comes from painstakingly writing down every note in an arrangement until you have a completed scale, or spending a bunch of time on a music theory website, that's what needs to happen.
I'd suggest the latter; because if you do it without any help of theory, and find out after that what you came up with makes theoretical sense, then that can help serve as an assurance that what you got is correct. Just another correction method if you get what I mean.
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