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Author Topic: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines  (Read 4796 times)

Tobbeh99

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2015, 07:41:32 PM »

This is unfair to the people who can't afford Finale, or wound up with Sibelius through some strange twist of fate.
Although, to tell the truth, Finale sheets look much more professional than Musescore or Sibelius sheets. Maybe just require the PDFs to be made from the .mus file?

Isn't this already the standard?? And if I'm not mistaken you can export XML-files and finish of the work in notepad. I wanted to add this because I just looked at a submission that, as he claims it, had followed the formatting guidelines, but the sheet look nothing like how it's supposed to look, the size and style on the title and etc. And he said that he uses noteflight, so he had probably formatted it according to the formatting guidelines but in noteflight.

I've also seen someone use a Siblius sheet, so this is just to get people on the right track from the start. Maybe I expressed myself wrongly in my previous comment I meant that the formatting and exporting must be done from a Finale program. Am right about that?

Tobbeh said "a Finale program," not the program, Finale (totally confusing nomenclature, btw). This would include Notepad, which is free.

yes this exactly what I meant. Any Finale program: Notepad, Songwriter, Printmusic, Full Version.   

« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 07:44:08 PM by Tobbeh99 »
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MaestroUGC

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2015, 07:46:48 PM »

Personally I find the idea we'd even need an .mus at this point in the site's progression is a bit antiquated, considering we post both PDF and midi files for every arrangement. I'm curious as to what the download rates on the .mus files versus the pdf and midi files are. I don't know, what's the argument for putting the .mus files on the site again?
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Tobbeh99

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2015, 07:50:28 PM »

I think mus. are great, I used them a lot when I look at sheets. It's great because you can both hear and follow the sheet at the same time!
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Latios212

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2015, 07:52:26 PM »

I don't know, what's the argument for putting the .mus files on the site again?
Well for one thing it helps to watch the sheet scroll by itself while the sound plays instead of opening up both the midi and pdf and trying to follow along. (ninja'd by tobbeh)

Also, it makes the files readily available for editing and replacement around here - if we need to fix something, we just click the link on site and make a couple of edits instead of searching for them wherever else we would store them.
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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2015, 07:53:54 PM »

Oh I'm not doubting the behind the scenes functionality of them, but I'm just wondering how many of our visitors (i.e. not any of us here) actually use those files.
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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2015, 07:55:59 PM »

For what it's worth, yes, I did use the .mus files before I joined the forums. If nothing else, Notepad does playback just fine.
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Tobbeh99

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2015, 08:08:07 PM »

For what it's worth, yes, I did use the .mus files before I joined the forums. If nothing else, Notepad does playback just fine.

same here.
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Maelstrom

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2015, 08:10:20 PM »

Notepad does not count as a valid music notation software. No one should be forced to use that instead of something with actual features just because they want to submit something to the site.

Bespinben

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2015, 08:23:45 PM »

MaestroBespinFan has a word to say about this:

[1:05:19 PM] Benjamin Persinger: I'm now not the only one who thinks Finale-centricism is hogwash. Thank you.
   [1:06:47 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally it was outdated once PDFs became a requirement.
   [1:07:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Sure it helps create a uniform standard in the creation process.
   [1:07:36 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: But I seriously doubt most passerbys have Finale to make the MUS something    they want.
   [1:08:01 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Most of our intended audience are kids/teens between 9-16.
   [1:08:23 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Who are just looking for an easy resource for their favorite VG tunes to show off to    their friends.
   [1:08:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Not exactly the kind of demographic who would even have Finale.

[1:09:13 PM] Benjamin Persinger: If we allow other programs, the less I have to deal with Notepad junk in submissions
   [1:09:35 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And even if a few of them had Notepad (mind you, that's maybe 10% at best)    what could they even do with it?
   [1:09:42 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It's a pretty worthless program.

[1:11:01 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Even if a XML import turned out alright, I usually make a "tidied up" version anyway
   [1:11:14 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: I'm sure we can get a uniform quality across all other programs.
   [1:11:48 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Hell, it's not like most of the cosmetic requirements can only be done in Finale.
   [1:12:02 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And as long as the music itself is correct and legible.

[1:13:29 PM] Benjamin Persinger: If we're using Finales spacing and typefont as the basis of "uniformity", I've already broken that rule
[1:13:49 PM] Benjamin Persinger: (Having used custom settings)
   [1:14:12 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: So then it's a moot point ultimately.
   [1:14:22 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Since there's apparently some give to those rules.

[1:15:06 PM] Benjamin Persinger: I've seen plenty sheets made in other programs that have a "Finale look" to them, on the other hand
[1:15:28 PM] Benjamin Persinger: So this whole uniformity thing is yes a moot point
   [1:15:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Start the crusade and I'll back you.

[1:15:58 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Gogogogogo
   [1:16:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally I prefer Finale, but that's largely because it's all I've used these past 10 years.

[1:16:44 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Oh same. I just think forcing it on everyone else is counterproductive.
   [1:17:11 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It is, especially since it has such a steep learning curve.
   [1:17:30 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And since most people don't have $150 for the next level above Notepad.
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Altissimo

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2015, 08:27:08 PM »

I wonder, can other music software programs beyond Musescore and Finale programs make XML files? Maybe we could require just PDF, MIDI and XML or MUS and then the updaters could plug the XML in to create a MUS file if the arranger isn't able to do it themselves.
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MaestroUGC

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2015, 08:27:26 PM »

Spoiler
MaestroBespinFan has a word to say about this:

[1:05:19 PM] Benjamin Persinger: I'm now not the only one who thinks Finale-centricism is hogwash. Thank you.
   [1:06:47 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally it was outdated once PDFs became a requirement.
   [1:07:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Sure it helps create a uniform standard in the creation process.
   [1:07:36 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: But I seriously doubt most passerbys have Finale to make the MUS something    they want.
   [1:08:01 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Most of our intended audience are kids/teens between 9-16.
   [1:08:23 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Who are just looking for an easy resource for their favorite VG tunes to show off to    their friends.
   [1:08:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Not exactly the kind of demographic who would even have Finale.

[1:09:13 PM] Benjamin Persinger: If we allow other programs, the less I have to deal with Notepad junk in submissions
   [1:09:35 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And even if a few of them had Notepad (mind you, that's maybe 10% at best)    what could they even do with it?
   [1:09:42 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It's a pretty worthless program.

[1:11:01 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Even if a XML import turned out alright, I usually make a "tidied up" version anyway
   [1:11:14 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: I'm sure we can get a uniform quality across all other programs.
   [1:11:48 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Hell, it's not like most of the cosmetic requirements can only be done in Finale.
   [1:12:02 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And as long as the music itself is correct and legible.

[1:13:29 PM] Benjamin Persinger: If we're using Finales spacing and typefont as the basis of "uniformity", I've already broken that rule
[1:13:49 PM] Benjamin Persinger: (Having used custom settings)
   [1:14:12 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: So then it's a moot point ultimately.
   [1:14:22 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Since there's apparently some give to those rules.

[1:15:06 PM] Benjamin Persinger: I've seen plenty sheets made in other programs that have a "Finale look" to them, on the other hand
[1:15:28 PM] Benjamin Persinger: So this whole uniformity thing is yes a moot point
   [1:15:41 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Start the crusade and I'll back you.

[1:15:58 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Gogogogogo
   [1:16:09 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: Personally I prefer Finale, but that's largely because it's all I've used these past 10 years.

[1:16:44 PM] Benjamin Persinger: Oh same. I just think forcing it on everyone else is counterproductive.
   [1:17:11 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: It is, especially since it has such a steep learning curve.
   [1:17:30 PM] Zachary "Maestro" Loy: And since most people don't have $150 for the next level above Notepad.
[close]
I'm Maestro and I endorse this message.

Maestro for President 2028
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Olimar12345

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2015, 08:29:59 PM »

I wonder, can other music software programs beyond Musescore and Finale programs make XML files? Maybe we could require just PDF, MIDI and XML or MUS and then the updaters could plug the XML in to create a MUS file if the arranger isn't able to do it themselves.

XML files are sort of the "bridge" file between notation programs. However, they sure are FAR from perfect, and often look like complete shit when imported.
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Altissimo

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2015, 08:33:33 PM »

I actually haven't had to do much editing when I port an XML file from Musescore to Notepad. I guess other programs handle XML files differently?
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Maelstrom

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2015, 08:52:28 PM »

While I'm ok with other people using other programs, encouraging a "Finale Look" should be a high priority for non-finale programs just for consistency's sake. A short stickied guide for musescore and sibelius would go a long way in that regard.

edit: But the .mus files make it much easier for updaters, as only one of the three files would need to be updated each time for feedback.
And .mus files help for edits and replacements, but, with our current quality standards, replacements would not be needed for anything added recently.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 08:54:11 PM by Maelstrom »
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Tobbeh99

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Re: Ideas for updating the Formatting Guidelines
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2015, 09:40:31 PM »

While I'm ok with other people using other programs, encouraging a "Finale Look" should be a high priority for non-finale programs just for consistency's sake. A short stickied guide for musescore and sibelius would go a long way in that regard.

Yes and a updated picture in the guide so people can see how it should look.
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