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Author Topic: [DELETED] [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci  (Read 1541 times)

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[DELETED] [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« on: August 28, 2016, 11:40:25 PM »

Submission Information:

Series: Other
Game: Castle Crashers
Console: Multiplatform
Title: Archetype
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Dekkadeci
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 02:19:29 AM by Dekkadeci »
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Dekkadeci

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2016, 11:50:15 PM »


My arrangement is of the Newgrounds version, which does make it into Castle Crashers in pretty unedited form.


Castle Crashers
I'm pretty certain the Castle Crashers loop doesn't fade out at the end, and I've heard evidence that The Behemoth extended it. I've only found one gameplay video with the suspected extension, though, so I haven't transcribed it.

Thing-Thing Arena 2
I'm not certain that the original Thing-Thing Arena uses this song, despite the number of Youtube videos claiming that it does--if it does, please tell me!

Note that Archetype was published on Newgrounds first, then Thing-Thing Arena 2 used it, then Castle Crashers used it. I bet you've never heard of Thing-Thing Arena 2 before, though...

I've privately talked to Maelstrom before about the copyright, and we agreed that a copyright of Newgrounds was good...but I'd like to see a consensus on the copyright here, too.

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 06:28:52 PM »

Rule 42 of music; always show beat 3 in simple metre.
No exceptions. No exceptions.

Example: Instead of writing two dotted quarters and a quarter, write dotted quarter, eighth-tied-quarter, and a quarter.
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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2016, 09:51:59 PM »

Rule 42 of music; always show beat 3 in simple metre.
No exceptions. No exceptions.

Example: Instead of writing two dotted quarters and a quarter, write dotted quarter, eighth-tied-quarter, and a quarter.
Fixed the .mus and .pdf to reflect the above. I did not edit the MIDI, as doing the above ruins playback in Musescore.

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 03:05:36 PM »

Rule 42 of music; always show beat 3 in simple metre.
No exceptions. No exceptions.
I would defend the exception of the half note on beat 2 just because of its conventional use and clarity despite not being technically correct as shown in measure 17 of this:
Sheet
[close]

About copyright I think my only big hangup with going with Newgrounds is that the game title being listed is Castle Crashers, which is not Newgrounds (so far as I know). Since you said your arrangement is of the Newgrounds version, I would like to see something pertaining to Newgrounds listed as the game title. That would solve the issue nicely.

Anyways, to the sheet itself:
-First page: I would lift the last line of music so it isn't cramming the copyright so much.
-Kind of all over the sheet, both hands, everywhere: I'm not sure I believe in having augmentation dots in both the augmentation position and the staccato position on the same note in the same voice at the same time (with the same hand). Sure, it's a staccato tenuto every time it appears here but I would still sooner see the rests just written out. It's less subjective and also less questionable. (Most questionable example of its use I see is measure 17 RH beat 3)
-Measure 41: You have articulation overlapping your dynamics. Spread it out some.
-Measure 66, RH: Here's a spot where what Ben said would apply. I wouldn't be against you leaving it personally however because it looks far more concise as it is rather than using a tie and comes at the expense of no clarity.
-Measures 97 and following, LH: Here's an example of misuse of staccatos. Write out these rests before slapping staccatos on notes that are either tied or under the effects of an augmentation do (as is the case here).
-Measure 153 and following, RH: More staccato stuff, you know the drill.
-I would spread the last two lines out a little more. That is, more space between hands for the last two lines.
-I think the last visual thing is the 8va at the end is a bit excessively long. I don't think you need the extension on it for a single note like this.

Again, due to circumstance rn I can't take a listen for note accuracies but fix those up and I'll be happier.

I can't even hear it and it looks insanely repetitive...
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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2016, 09:08:07 PM »

My replies are in blue. I may not be able to edit the .mus accordingly today, but I'll try my best.
I would defend the exception of the half note on beat 2 just because of its conventional use and clarity despite not being technically correct as shown in measure 17 of this:
Sheet
[close]

About copyright I think my only big hangup with going with Newgrounds is that the game title being listed is Castle Crashers, which is not Newgrounds (so far as I know). Since you said your arrangement is of the Newgrounds version, I would like to see something pertaining to Newgrounds listed as the game title. That would solve the issue nicely.
I am against labelling this song's game as "Newgrounds" for multiple reasons.
  • If someone could give me two game play videos with what I suspect is the Castle Crashers extension of this song, I will be eternally grateful, edit the extension on accordingly, and put on a repeat sign. Sadly, I've found only one video with the suspected extension, and that was after watching several Arena videos of Castle Crashers, including ones that weren't long enough to cover the entire loop and ones that used their own music instead of Castle Crashers's. Thus, I am currently unable to completely trust that what I heard in that video was the genuine in-game extension of Archetype.
  • This being a website devoted to piano transcriptions of video game music, I would much rather include Castle Crashers in the game title. (I suspect that, the moment someone tries to submit Jumper, s/he'll have to provide two otherwise identical versions: one labelled as Castle Crashers and the other labelled as Geometry Dash.)

Anyways, to the sheet itself:
-First page: I would lift the last line of music so it isn't cramming the copyright so much.
Will do. I'll probably end up reducing the space between systems.
-Kind of all over the sheet, both hands, everywhere: I'm not sure I believe in having augmentation dots in both the augmentation position and the staccato position on the same note in the same voice at the same time (with the same hand). Sure, it's a staccato tenuto every time it appears here but I would still sooner see the rests just written out. It's less subjective and also less questionable. (Most questionable example of its use I see is measure 17 RH beat 3)
I commonly see this marking in sheet music, and it's called portato. I'd rather use portato than rests because I believe it's actually the performer's discretion how long to hold down each such note. Some days, I play closer to 3/4's of the notated length, and other days, I even play half of the notated length (i.e. I should be using staccato instead). If I had to use rests, I'd probably make the notes 2/3 or 3/4 of their previous length (depending on which is easier to notate).
-Measure 41: You have articulation overlapping your dynamics. Spread it out some.
I'll edit the Musescore base and re-transfer the MusicXML. (I've had similar pain with my arrangement contest submission, so I've steeply increased the space between each staff, as each staff is for a different instrument.)
-Measure 66, RH: Here's a spot where what Ben said would apply. I wouldn't be against you leaving it personally however because it looks far more concise as it is rather than using a tie and comes at the expense of no clarity.
The only RH note I see in Bar 66 is a dotted half note.
-Measures 97 and following, LH: Here's an example of misuse of staccatos. Write out these rests before slapping staccatos on notes that are either tied or under the effects of an augmentation do (as is the case here).
Similar to my explanation for the second point, I use articulation to convey that the performer can afford to be imprecise about exactly how long the notes should be. If I had to use rests, I'd make those notes half their previous lengths.
-Measure 153 and following, RH: More staccato stuff, you know the drill.
-I would spread the last two lines out a little more. That is, more space between hands for the last two lines.
When I listen to the song, the most prominent notes I hear in the last two lines are the top and middle voices. I made sure to record them faithfully, even though I don't like how high the bass voice has to go as a result.
-I think the last visual thing is the 8va at the end is a bit excessively long. I don't think you need the extension on it for a single note like this.
The extension is to make the 8vb more obvious. I'll shorten it to its default length, though.

Again, due to circumstance rn I can't take a listen for note accuracies but fix those up and I'll be happier.

I can't even hear it and it looks insanely repetitive...
I knew the song was sort of repetitive before I transcribed it, but I was amazed how harmonically monotonous it was after I finished my transcription. Nearly all the song basically goes C# minor-G power, with C# minor taking up the first 3 beats of each bar and G power taking up the last beat. (No wonder I transcribed it so quickly...)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 09:16:09 PM by Dekkadeci »
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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2016, 02:23:11 AM »

Finally got around to fixing up the Archetype submission.

The most significant changes:
  • I eliminated all staccatos and portatos, changing note lengths accordingly. I didn't like to do this, but I like putting staccatos and portatos on tied notes even less.
  • There are slight note length changes to make this transcription easier to play.

I was unable to change the distance between staves and between systems (friendly reminder that I use Musescore, Finale Notepad, and a text editor to directly manipulate XML). Bar 41 looks a bit better but still looks ugly. At least the copyright on the first page isn't crammed against the music anymore.

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2016, 07:38:53 PM »

First and foremost, invest in some repeat systems. There is too much repetition for this to actually be 11 pages of new content

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 09:37:53 PM »

First and foremost, invest in some repeat systems. There is too much repetition for this to actually be 11 pages of new content
What kind of repeat signs should I use, though? "Repeat this bar 4x"? I think that's the most likely kind I'd use, but I've got to figure out how to implement that, for example.

Sadly, I've listened to the entire song many times and, while it repeats bars many times (which helped when transcribing this), it does NOT loop over its slightly-over-4-minute length. Bar sections like Bars 85-88 and Bars 97-104 never recur again.

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 09:40:28 PM »

You can use that, or have a longer section that is repeated 2x, or even a few 1/2nd repeat systems.

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2016, 09:17:18 PM »

bump

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2017, 03:31:59 AM »

bump.

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Re: [MUL] Castle Crashers - "Archetype" by Dekkadeci
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2017, 12:33:38 AM »

Come again soon!

(meaning re-submit if you find time to make changes, but archiving this for now)
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