FierceDeity's Arrangements (11/3 - NEW: Pokémon X and Y - Emotion)

[FierceDeity]

Yeah, there's a lower voice you're not hearing. It sounds like a double reed, probably bassoon, and it is doubling the melody in a lower octave. As for adding in the strings, no, I did not think they were in unison with the melody XD in fact, I thought they were so rhythmically unsimilar to the melody that they would be immensely difficult to have in the same hand, especially with the lower octave included in the melody. I had to leave something out, so I went ahead and left that (as well as the mallet part) out of the arrangement. I might go ahead and take out the bottom octave and see if the strings work well with that taken out, but either way, it's inevitable that a voice or two get left out.

Also, I did just notice that there is a spot where I did put it in octaves incorrectly, probably because I was having a hard time hearing the harmony there before (measures 13-14), but I think I've got it down now.

And yeah, I've started to notice a trend of me forgetting to use mordents, like, everywhere XD

...I often feel like I come off as too defensive when receiving criticism, so I just want to make a point to say I'm really grateful for the feedback, regardless of how argumentative my responses may seem, haha. Thank you

[FireArrow]

Yeah, there's a lower voice you're not hearing. It sounds like a double reed, probably bassoon, and it is doubling the melody in a lower octave. As for adding in the strings, no, I did not think they were in unison with the melody XD in fact, I thought they were so rhythmically unsimilar to the melody that they would be immensely difficult to have in the same hand, especially with the lower octave included in the melody. I had to leave something out, so I went ahead and left that (as well as the mallet part) out of the arrangement. I might go ahead and take out the bottom octave and see if the strings work well with that taken out, but either way, it's inevitable that a voice or two get left out.

Also, I did just notice that there is a spot where I did put it in octaves incorrectly, probably because I was having a hard time hearing the harmony there before (measures 13-14), but I think I've got it down now.

And yeah, I've started to notice a trend of me forgetting to use mordents, like, everywhere XD

...I often feel like I come off as too defensive when receiving criticism, so I just want to make a point to say I'm really grateful for the feedback, regardless of how argumentative my responses may seem, haha. Thank you

Not a problem, as long as we keep it civilized, debates are a good thing. I'll go back and see if I can hear it, but I'm probably just gonna have to trust you on this one. However, do try the strings, becuase in a situation where you need to ommit something, you should probably be ommiting the voice playing in unison with the melody (sorry, I worded that horribly.)

[FierceDeity]

Sorry for the little leave of absence there. So, I fixed (or, attempted to fix, not quite sure how well I did) Apple Kid's Theme. First off, I added text to imply that it's in swing (kind of an important detail ). I changed a couple of the chromatic runs to meet that rule; however, at the second to last bar, if I were to go with that rule, it would become extremely cluttered (even more so than it is right now, somehow). There would be multiple notes written as an augmented second apart, and personally, if I were reading it, I wouldn't be able to tell at first glance which note a particular accidental was for. So, I did a couple things to maintain at least a third between notes, such as changing F# to Gb even though it's an ascending chromatic, and Fb to E natural, even though I had that particular figure use an Fb in other areas where it showed up (in those cases, to avoid excessive use of accidentals). Please let me know whether those were good decisions, as I'm having a bit of trouble pegging this one down. Also, still not entirely sure about the key; from the first measure, I would assume it's the C dorian minor using the blue note (dorian because jazz style), but I'm not entirely sure.

As for Hometown Domina, I looked into adding the strings, but there are a ton of register issues that would come up :/ I agree with you FireArrow, it would sound a lot better if those could be put in, but they're too independent. They would be in flux between being higher and lower than the melody, and, at least in my opinion, it would end up drowning out the melody itself. As for everything else you pointed out, I'll get to fixing those now
EDIT: Changed the tempo to 104, changed the twirls to mordents (although, I'm not quite sure how to indicate that a mordent is only on the top note. I think it's likely that the bottom voice has a mordent as well, but I feel like that translate as well to octaves on piano.), changed the harmonies in measures 13 and 14 to as close to the recording as possible (the following two measures I took some liberties to help with the voice leading, as the original harmony was a tenth below, not a third). I was considering putting some of the mallet parts, or possibly whatever that other voice is that's sounding on the "and" of every beat (I'm totally not sure what that is), but it doesn't sound too good in that register (I don't know, at this point, I'm beginning to suspect I might just be really picky when it comes to register, haha).

Oh, and Onion, I promise I'm fixing the things you pointed out in Legend of Mana Title Theme one of these days, haha XD

[FireArrow]

Finale will probably make it sound like that, but melodies on top of each other are extremely common in video game music, so if the performer knows that the top melody is the counter melody, than it should sound just fine. I'll download an mp3 and see how it sounds.

EDIT: It sounds fine, the only problem is that it's in unison with the flute in measure 2, which makes it sound really empty randomly.

[FierceDeity]

It sounds fine, the only problem is that it's in unison with the flute in measure 2, which makes it sound really empty randomly.

If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, that's a result of this weird thing finale's been doing for me where it makes the top note of a line much softer after a mordent until the next rest; I'm really not sure why it does that.

Finale will probably make it sound like that, but melodies on top of each other are extremely common in video game music

Ehhh. In video game music, yes, it's common; it's common in all music. But, that's because in recordings, they have the added benefit of individual voices. To my knowledge, in piano arrangements (as well as really any time when the "different" voices are so similar in timbre, like in a sax soli), you generally try not to cross voices with the melody, regardless of individualized dynamics, especially when it would be in flux as much as with this. Still, I'm definitely more experienced in writing for winds than for piano, so I may be wrong, but I would assume that the principle carries over.

[FireArrow]

I'm sorry, I was mistaken as to the pitch of the strings. Ya ya, the would clash to much with the melody, but if you moves around the octaves a bit, it sounds pretty good (bar the transition for one to two.)

Here's what I did to give you an idea (I slapped it together, so it's probably not accurate.)

[MUS]

also, you have a staccato followed by a rest

[FierceDeity]

Hm, yeah, I do see how that could kinda work. Like you said, though, trouble spots like the transition between bars 1 and 2 (the second note is a G, but yeah haha) do come up, unfortunately :/ and then after everything you added in, there comes the problem of getting back up to the F again. I don't know; to me, it seems like so much jumping around in the octaves kinda ruins the voice leading. I'm sure there's a way to tweak that voice well enough that it fits in the arrangement while maintaining the original feel, but I'm really not experienced enough of an arranger to do that.
As for the staccato before a rest, I'm not sure we ever truly resolved that dispute, did we? Haha. In this situation, I feel it's necessary to indicate that the articulation is the same for all notes under that marking. Again, it technically does translate to "separated", but it's come to mean something much broader in an articulation sense.

Thank you for taking all this time to help me with this piece, by the way

[FireArrow]

The problem is that it works in both directions, if you don't include everything, it won't sound like the original either. If you left your arrangement the way it is, it would sound a bit empty. Also, the transition from 1 to 2 may just be finale being stupid.

[FierceDeity]

Not exactly like the original? Yes. Empty? That's debatable. I feel like what we're talking about now is more of a matter of opinion in arranging, and personally, I'm a lot more frustrated when an arrangement tries to cram in everything from the original at the cost of musical integrity, than when an arrangement is logical in and of itself, despite some minor omissions/alterations. Still, though, as I become more experienced at arranging, I'm probably going to go back and revisit some pieces and see if there's anything I can do better, and Hometown Domina is definitely one of those pieces, even if I may be satisfied with it for now.
I'm glad you brought up the fact that it goes both ways, though, because it's made me consider how the two need to be balanced. I tried to do that in my new arrangement, Sting Chameleon. I tried to implement the inner parts that couldn't be fully voiced, like you were telling me to do in Hometown Domina, without making it too crammed. If you could let me know how I did on that, it'd be greatly appreciated
...Also, let me know if you need further explanation on what I meant by that, because I'm kinda tired, and I'm not really sure if I'm making sense haha XD

[Brassman388]

Megaman X is probably one of my favourite series on Nintendo. For gameplay as well as music.

So here's what I have to say about the Sting Chameleon arrangement you have.

First off, it's a bit too fast. Not too fast, but fast enough where the quality of the arrangement, as it is now, is lost. I suggest slowing it down, about 12 to 10 to even about 8 bpm.

Second, I understand you probably worked really, really hard transcribing the bass parts and it took a really long time, but I feel (and hear) that it shouldn't be taking up a whole staff. Yes, I know it's a bass part in the bass staff, but as an arranger, you have to understand that with all those cool counter melodies you have mashed up in the treble clef staff can be used and put in the lower staff. For me, I always want to have the melody line set in the treble clef. It's easier to read, in my opinion. And so, the bass parts and the left hand are free for interpretation. You don't need to have the bass exactly like the way it is in the song, but just have it accentuated where it needs to be. After that, focus on how you're going to fit in the counter melodies as long as it doesn't crash with either the main melody, or the bass line. You also don't want your intervals to exceed past 8 intervals. That tends to happen when you move the counter melody lines into the bass, so watch out for that.

If you need help to understand what I am saying, don't be afraid to ask. I'm always willing to help.

And don't worry, as time goes on and you arrange more and more, you'll get better and better. I promise.

[FierceDeity]

Thanks for the feedback, man. A few questions, though.

For me, I always want to have the melody line set in the treble clef. It's easier to read, in my opinion.

Did I not? Or are you saying it should be just the melody and nothing else?

You also don't want your intervals to exceed past 8 intervals. That tends to happen when you move the counter melody lines into the bass, so watch out for that.

I'm assuming you mean not to make it wider than an octave, and that you're talking about bar 19, but I was under the impression that a 9th is acceptable, especially when it's harmonizing below the melody, because a 2nd below the melody is a general no-no for harmonizing, and while somewhat of a stretch, it's definitely manageable for most pianists. I did make some alterations in the harmony for bar 18 because it was a similar, yet more severe, situation; I suppose if a 9th is too much, then I can do the same thing there.

Second, I understand you probably worked really, really hard transcribing the bass parts and it took a really long time, but I feel (and hear) that it shouldn't be taking up a whole staff.

Heh, it's ok, transcribing is never really the problem for me. However, at another point, you suggested that I should fit in the counter melodies as long as it doesn't interfere with the main melody or bassline; it seems like you're suggesting two opposite things; or, are you saying that they shouldn't interfere with the parts where the bassline is "accentuated where it needs to be"? And what if I determine that it's a significant part for the majority of the time?

First off, it's a bit too fast. Not too fast, but fast enough where the quality of the arrangement, as it is now, is lost. I suggest slowing it down, about 12 to 10 to even about 8 bpm.

Are you sure? I put the original to a metronome and, yeah, it was a little fast, but it synced up perfectly at 170 bpm, and at 168, it fell behind.

For most of your suggestions, I kinda just need you to be a little more specific as to where in the song you're talking about, or an example of a place where it applies.

[Brassman388]

Alright, just give me a few hours. I'll make the changes that I suggested rather than explaining it. This way, you can make a comparison and if you have any questions regarding how or why I made those changes, then you can.

Easy as pie.

Is that cool? If not, I'll explain it with a very wordy explanation and I won't even bother sending you a copy.

Your choice.

[FierceDeity]

No, that'd be awesome! Thanks

[Brassman388]

Here you go.

Sting Chameleon

[FierceDeity]

As much as I appreciate you taking the time to do this, there are a lot of things you did that I disagree with, many of which are opinion-based issues :/
However, while I can try to comfort myself with the fact that opinions are subjective, they are also brought closer to fact through experience, and I know you are much more experienced at this than I am (you've been at this since, what, before 2006?), so I feel obligated to trust your judgment. Either way, I don't feel comfortable submitting this until I've become experienced enough at this to be able to say for myself. Haha, I'm not sure whether I picked the best time or the worst time to start arranging for this site; on the plus side, I've learned enough theory to have some level of competency, and I can start getting experience both arranging and receiving criticism (something I'm absolutely terrible at); on the other hand, I'm about to start my first year of college (majoring in composition), where I'm going to learn so much more, both about arranging and about playing piano.

For now, I'm going to put my Megaman X arrangements on hold, seeing as I've found a treasure trove of completely manageable arrangements in Pokémon Pinball

...Seriously, though, the fact that you pretty much did a whole arrangement just to help me with this is probably the coolest thing ever. Thank you.