Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on December 29, 2014, 06:02:27 PMLet's make our own post game!
Well well, humans. You certainly got very lucky first with olimar (he made a huge mistake though lol) and then with BDS. I think FireArrow deserves wolf MVP. He certainly did a good job of keeping alive.
Human MVP has got to be fank. He was the first one to push the BDS lynch and Yugi only jumped on because he knew he himself couldn't be a wolf.
Then there's me. I gotta admit, I did a pretty spectacular job at getting everyone so annoyed they had to mislynch me just to shut me up. Not only did I get mislynched once, saving firearrow just barely, I also got lynched AGAIN (but by the wolves so eh) to put the game into a stall giving wolves a second chance to win.
Best traitor play ever.
Anyone second those nominations?
TWG LXXII: Agents of Shield (Season 1)
1. Master Hydra - Seered green.
2. Hydra
3. The Clairvoyant - Seer.
4. Traitor.
5. Agent Coulson - Miller.
6. Skye - Seer.
7. Agent May - Brutal human: When wolfed, random wolf dies.
8. Agent Fitz - knows Simmons! When Fitz dies, Simmons dies.
9. Agent Simmons - knows Fitz! When Simmons dies, Fitz dies.
10. Human
11. Human
12. Human
13. Human
Item:
GH-325: Given to a random player during night phase 2, can be passed along or used to bring a dead player back to life.
50% chance of appearing a second time in night phase 3, 25% n4, etc.
Cardflip: role reveal upon death
1. Mashi - Agent Coulson
2. Nocturneow - Agent Traitor
3. fank009 - Agent Fitz
4. FireArrow - The Clairvoyant
wolf mvp5. BlackDragonSlayer - Master Hydra
6. Yugi - Human
7. The_Subjective_Thought - Human
8. Toby - Agent May
9. Olimar12345 - Hydra
10. mariolegofan - Human
11. maelstrom - Human
12. Jon - Agent Simmons
13. blueflower999 - Agent Skye
Agent FitzSimmons got revive item n2, passed it on to Agent May, Toby.
Master Hydra (BDS) got the revive item n3, reviving Olimar.
25% chance hit on n4 and the item goes to Agent Skye! She really cared about Agent Traitor. He was part of their team, after all...
Toby used the n2 revive item on Agent Fitz (fank).
I'm pretty sure NocturneOfShadow voted all the maf at least once so he gets human mvp
yay blue i love you
in a completely straight way
lol who revived nocturneofshadow
so do I get human mvp for leading the human team to victory
YAY, Postgame...
so many things with this game...
the revive mechanic had a huge chance of swinging the other way.
(blue, I dont know why you revived Noct other than traitor gambit)
Even though this game had the most posts... it was the most stale... we spent all game, discussing what should have been D1 lynch (granted I wasn't a help) and by D3 there really wasnt anything to talk about after needing to relynch olimar/noct. (though at that stage it was mislynch/lose -noct) as the options cut down, it was easier to have a look at angles...
who was it, I think it was said in the alliance chat, that you cant convince wolves on why they were a wolf, thats somewhat how D4 felt like.
The wolves made so many bad wolfings... there were only 2 good wolfings, N1 with TST, and N3 with me... (q, were you hunting for masons n2???) - hunting for masons MLF was a terrible wolfing, considering how close he was to olimar. Maelstrom was a bad wolfing because numbers. even if Mashi was pro FA. wolfing mashi was a mistake, since the argument was a fear killing... and using me as the example of fear killing. would have been better convincing me of the fear killing, but I dont see anyway that you would sack yugi.
FA played well... to a point. cant remember where I made this statement, should have claimed N1... something tells me that wolves werent organized at that stage in who was claiming. the argument was somewhat believable, and worth of wolf MVP for the fact that you should have been lynched D1.
I want to know how much help I gave you guys... cause I if anything spelt it out... (and if you knew so much why didnt you sack, would have gotten Blue lynched for sure possibly... (if not toby's vote the mob would have gone that way)
The criticisms against toby were... totally (whats the word) understandable. being held back information didnt help (timezones?)
just imagine if we knew FA had claimed.
there's a few things that I need to work on on my game... as FA said, I do need to readjust my gameplay, and rewrite my established leans with some people (FA ;)). and make my good books harder to get into.
Quote from: Yugi on December 30, 2014, 04:49:29 PMso do I get human mvp for leading the human team to victory
lets be honest, noct was more of a help than you are ;)
Why the **** did Blue revive Noct? Really?
I don't even know what to say......
Well that was ok.
I don't think I played that bad, holding information from the thread while leading an alliance is pretty much the point of having an alliance, although I probably could have shared more had Firearrow just been lynches Day 1 like I planned and I didn't have to keep after him the whole game instead of thinking about much else.
I called olimar, firearrow and possibly Mashi out as wolves day 1 but then after getting then after night 2 getting him seered red led me to believe he wasn't the wolf and then when it came down to Yugi or BDS I made the right decision. We didn't lynch a non wolf winning player all game (although we still almost lost because revive fun), we did pretty good. I think games where revives can come to any player are generally sort of unbalanced, as if the wolves end up getting the revive every night then they win (which is highly unlikely but hey ho).
This was a good game and will be my last for a good while, I kind of quit twg a good while ago, I'd been gone from twg for about 8 months before this game and I had mentioned I might come back now and then for a game or something but now I'll probably disappear again and focus on studies and such.
Fun game, nice work Jub, you were a great host and I really enjoyed the game!
Quote from: Toby on December 30, 2014, 06:11:52 PMWell that was ok.
I don't think I played that bad, holding information from the thread while leading an alliance is pretty much the point of having an alliance, although I probably could have shared more had Firearrow just been lynches Day 1 like I planned and I didn't have to keep after him the whole game instead of thinking about much else.
I called olimar, firearrow and possibly Mashi out as wolves day 1 but then after getting then after night 2 getting him seered red led me to believe he wasn't the wolf and then when it came down to Yugi or BDS I made the right decision. We didn't lynch a non wolf winning player all game (although we still almost lost because revive fun), we did pretty good. I think games where revives can come to any player are generally sort of unbalanced, as if the wolves end up getting the revive every night then they win (which is highly unlikely but hey ho).
This was a good game and will be my last for a good while, I kind of quit twg a good while ago, I'd been gone from twg for about 8 months before this game and I had mentioned I might come back now and then for a game or something but now I'll probably disappear again and focus on studies and such.
Fun game, nice work Jub, you were a great host and I really enjoyed the game!
we haven't even had a twg for a pretty long time
Considering what a bad start we got out to (FireArrow waited to claim only because he thought items would be distributed earlier than they were, and he was hoping we'd get the item), I think we did fairly well.
To explain my weird actions:
Olimar voted me because we were gonna fake a log of him catching me slip up, thus making him look really human after my card flip.
The late claim was because I thought revives were given out day 1. >_>
I wolfed MLF because of the Toby bait and with olimar dead it didn't really matter if it was a trap (so high reward no risk.)
I wolfed Mashi because mashi is smart and he would of caught on if he lived. It also doubled as framing blueflower, which I'm kinda surprised that yugi disregarded it so quickly.
The biggest mistakes that we made was day 1. If I could of bounced the lynch to a human rather than olimar we would of won, but we were just so disorganized.
Mashi and Mael, you guys taking my side was by no means a misplay. The humans had really bad argument against me, and if this was some high level TWG where stupid things didn't happen (my day 1 wolf play...), you guys would of made the right call. There is absolutely no reason someone would do what I did as a wolf, because I did those things out of ignorance and confusion. Mael your pretty new at this, but you played like a veteran. You were one of the few people who analyzed each argument independently and unbiasedly to come to your conclusion.
Olimar, you have the workings to be really great at TWG. You caught Toby's trap from a mile away and you did a pretty good job of supporting me while still not looking like my partner for the majority of the phase. If you just hadn't posted that plan ;-;
NoS... wtf. You helped the humans more than you helped us... to the point where they revived you over TST.
Toby, your bad play was not responding to me. When a wolf makes a really good defense you have to make a really good counterargument. Otherwise people will be like "Uh, and why are we voting him again." What made it worse is that you never really understood my argument, so you'd say random things that were just plain wrong and it made you lose all your power over the thread. Of course I did kinda post like crazy which made it really hard to keep up.
to be fair I didn't know who the wolves were until like just before I got lynched the second time
BDS sent a PM to me that said "I wouldn't do that if I were you" and I'm like oh hey
Quote from: FireArrow on December 30, 2014, 08:26:38 PMMashi and Mael, you guys taking my side was by no means a misplay. The humans had really bad argument against me, and if this was some high level TWG where stupid things didn't happen (my day 1 wolf play...), you guys would of made the right call. There is absolutely no reason someone would do what I did as a wolf, because I did those things out of ignorance and confusion.
Mael, you're pretty new at this, but you played like a veteran. You were one of the few people who analyzed each argument independently and unbiasedly to come to your conclusion.
Thanks! I seriously didn't think a wolf would be that stupid.
no offence
Quote from: Maelstrom on December 30, 2014, 08:31:50 PMThanks! I seriously didn't think a wolf would be that stupid. no offence
That was his point
And I never actually thought you were a wolf :P
@mael
Yeah XD
That's kinda why this game sucked so much. It's an example of where being smart would result in the wrong decision, so it's kinda impossible to make a human MVP.
Anyone who made the right decision did it because of terrible reasoning.
Anyone who made wise decisions made the wrong decision.
I mean, there were some really good reasons to suspect me (namely Mashi living as long as he did) but people were too busy tunnel visioning the stupid stuff. I have to give Yugi credit for the Blueflower meta though, that was pretty good.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on December 30, 2014, 08:29:24 PMto be fair I didn't know who the wolves were until like just before I got lynched the second time
BDS sent a PM to me that said "I wouldn't do that if I were you" and I'm like oh hey
We didn't PM you that day because you trying so hard to lynch me made me look more human.
What you needed to do was not go around asking for wolves, it just makes it look like a bait.
Quote from: FireArrow on December 30, 2014, 08:26:38 PMwhich I'm kinda surprised that yugi disregarded it so quickly.
People do a lot of disregarding when they're determined to believe something. :P
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on December 30, 2014, 08:29:24 PMto be fair I didn't know who the wolves were until like just before I got lynched the second time
BDS sent a PM to me that said "I wouldn't do that if I were you" and I'm like oh hey
I didn't think you were
really the traitor until you were lynched.
I revived Nocturne because I didn't think you guys would be stupid enough to lynch him again, that's why. :P
Quote from: Maelstrom on December 30, 2014, 05:56:30 PMWhy the **** did Blue revive Noct? Really?
I don't even know what to say......
Also because I kind of wanted reactions like this. What, that's just the kind of person I am, heh.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on December 30, 2014, 09:32:58 PMPeople do a lot of disregarding when they're determined to believe something. :P
Yeah, that's one thing I learned this game. Manipulate people not with logic, but with emotions and first impressions.
::) that's something you can learn from any argumentation course.
people appeal very strongly to pathos.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow on December 30, 2014, 09:37:19 PM::) that's something you can learn from any argumentation course.
people appeal very strongly to pathos.
I didn't think that'd apply to TWG though. >_>
Everything applies to TWG.
O:
le gasp
Quote from: blueflower999 on December 30, 2014, 09:34:07 PMI revived Nocturne because I didn't think you guys would be stupid enough to lynch him again, that's why. :P
Well, we wanted to lynch you...
Quote from: FireArrow on December 30, 2014, 09:35:32 PMYeah, that's one thing I learned this game. Manipulate people not with logic, but with emotions and first impressions.
wait we are supposed to use what now??? (hangs up logic)
Quote from: FireArrow on December 30, 2014, 08:26:38 PMTo explain my weird actions:
Olimar voted me because we were gonna fake a log of him catching me slip up, thus making him look really human after my card flip.
The late claim was because I thought revives were given out day 1. >_>
I wolfed MLF because of the Toby bait and with olimar dead it didn't really matter if it was a trap (so high reward no risk.)
I wolfed Mashi because mashi is smart and he would of caught on if he lived. It also doubled as framing blueflower, which I'm kinda surprised that yugi disregarded it so quickly.
The biggest mistakes that we made was day 1. If I could of bounced the lynch to a human rather than olimar we would of won, but we were just so disorganized.
Mashi and Mael, you guys taking my side was by no means a misplay. The humans had really bad argument against me, and if this was some high level TWG where stupid things didn't happen (my day 1 wolf play...), you guys would of made the right call. There is absolutely no reason someone would do what I did as a wolf, because I did those things out of ignorance and confusion. Mael your pretty new at this, but you played like a veteran. You were one of the few people who analyzed each argument independently and unbiasedly to come to your conclusion.
Olimar, you have the workings to be really great at TWG. You caught Toby's trap from a mile away and you did a pretty good job of supporting me while still not looking like my partner for the majority of the phase. If you just hadn't posted that plan ;-;
NoS... wtf. You helped the humans more than you helped us... to the point where they revived you over TST.
Toby, your bad play was not responding to me. When a wolf makes a really good defense you have to make a really good counterargument. Otherwise people will be like "Uh, and why are we voting him again." What made it worse is that you never really understood my argument, so you'd say random things that were just plain wrong and it made you lose all your power over the thread. Of course I did kinda post like crazy which made it really hard to keep up.
So everyone who thought you were a wolf was playing bad and everyone who thought you were a human was playing good, makes sense. I took your day 1 claim as you trying to look human by seeming confused and not willing to trust me yet, which in how things were going would have been the wrong play for a human, you could have claimed and then seered me night 1 no matter who I aaked you to aeer, that would have gained you some human points, but the way you acted, waiting until I had warned people an alliance was being set up at a certain time, after revealing no confusion that I had no aeer claims, had you been a human you would have let a wolf walk into the alliance, but I highly doubted a human would be so stupid to disregard that.
Then your weird day patterns were how you reacted was so jumpy and your confusion was beginning to take a pattern with you being relaxed at first (even giving yourself up for the lynch), then after people went after you, you became defensive, attacking other players and this behaviour continued throughout the game.
The reasoning against Blueflower was not strong enough in any way for me to lean towards him, all of your reasoning came under the fact that i was telling Blueflower, FANK and jon to act in certain ways in order to try not look suspicious.
On day 3 (I think?) when you revealed a Blueflower seering to the thread, that was when I knew you knew who the real seer was, I decided to keep low a bit for that day because if I was to respond everyone would have wanted a big arguement for how we should or should not trust the seering, however I wanted to see how firearrow would have reacted and if he would have changed from his 'the plan is you lynch me' behaviour to an attack on Blueflower, which he did and that made him even more suspicious and concludes to why he was a wolf.
And yet sometimes the wrong reasoning is only wrong reasoning because you can't realise that other people have other perspectives to things that you can't see.
Admittedly the day 1 claiming was probably not meant as to seem human, but it was incredibly dumb and suspicious given the circumstances.
I actually followed the game a bit from the sidelines and the most notable mistake I saw was lynching NoS, technically a confirmed human(he counts for the human team) for the reason that it's "minimal risk/reward" and I was surprised people didn't turn against FireArrow after he suggested that option!
Shoutout to Yugi for completely violating the wolf team in the end 8)
Assuming that nocturne was going to side with the wolves and do as they asked, the game was just going to be a kitB decision to who would win. Lynching nocturne was more beneficial to the humans than the wolves and I think that's what Firearrow failed to realise, had nocturne lived, the game would have been 3v3 (assuming nocturne voted as the wolves asked), and the outcome would have been 50/50, had nocturne not sided with the wolves or if it was a different human revived, we would have won the game quicker and much easier.
Lynching nocturne made sure that if we mislynched the game wouldn't have been 50/50 for who would win and the humans would have more control using actual evidence to make a lynch and have more time to gather evidence.
Lynching the traitor was good!!!
Valid point about the evidence and time, although the humans would have lost anyway if you had mislynched after Night 4! My mistake though!!!
Quote from: Toby on December 31, 2014, 05:08:55 AMSo everyone who thought you were a wolf was playing bad and everyone who thought you were a human was playing good, makes sense. I took your day 1 claim as you trying to look human by seeming confused and not willing to trust me yet, which in how things were going would have been the wrong play for a human, you could have claimed and then seered me night 1 no matter who I aaked you to aeer, that would have gained you some human points, but the way you acted, waiting until I had warned people an alliance was being set up at a certain time, after revealing no confusion that I had no aeer claims, had you been a human you would have let a wolf walk into the alliance, but I highly doubted a human would be so stupid to disregard that.
Then your weird day patterns were how you reacted was so jumpy and your confusion was beginning to take a pattern with you being relaxed at first (even giving yourself up for the lynch), then after people went after you, you became defensive, attacking other players and this behaviour continued throughout the game.
The reasoning against Blueflower was not strong enough in any way for me to lean towards him, all of your reasoning came under the fact that i was telling Blueflower, FANK and jon to act in certain ways in order to try not look suspicious.
On day 3 (I think?) when you revealed a Blueflower seering to the thread, that was when I knew you knew who the real seer was, I decided to keep low a bit for that day because if I was to respond everyone would have wanted a big arguement for how we should or should not trust the seering, however I wanted to see how firearrow would have reacted and if he would have changed from his 'the plan is you lynch me' behaviour to an attack on Blueflower, which he did and that made him even more suspicious and concludes to why he was a wolf.
And yet sometimes the wrong reasoning is only wrong reasoning because you can't realise that other people have other perspectives to things that you can't see.
Admittedly the day 1 claiming was probably not meant as to seem human, but it was incredibly dumb and suspicious given the circumstances.
I already argued this in the thread and I'm not going to do so in post game. You still don't have any idea what my argument was, only bits and pieces of it. Even blueflower shared my jumpy behavior day 2 - he went from calmly saying "that seering is fabricated" to giving up and calling everyone stupid. Remind you of anyone else? >_>
Quote from: Toby on December 31, 2014, 07:52:03 AMAssuming that nocturne was going to side with the wolves and do as they asked, the game was just going to be a kitB decision to who would win. Lynching nocturne was more beneficial to the humans than the wolves and I think that's what Firearrow failed to realise, had nocturne lived, the game would have been 3v3 (assuming nocturne voted as the wolves asked), and the outcome would have been 50/50, had nocturne not sided with the wolves or if it was a different human revived, we would have won the game quicker and much easier.
Lynching nocturne made sure that if we mislynched the game wouldn't have been 50/50 for who would win and the humans would have more control using actual evidence to make a lynch and have more time to gather evidence.
Lynching the traitor was good!!!
...How did I not realize that? I tried to lynch blueflower and only changed to NoS when it became between NoS and BDS. Mashi was behind the lynch and the KitB was my reasoning to save BDS.
What's with all this pride... you're making me seem humble :/
Just clarifying things.
Case against FA. As I hinted in chat... you were seer'd red, you didn't need that much of a case against you, wanting in actives day 1 didn't help. You did not have that smart of a defense, basically it was, they are scummy because they are going for me and I'm not scum. Please hindsight guide us in this misconception.
You were a valid d1 lynch and the only reason you weren't lynched was because olimar was too pushy.
As much as yugi was a pivotal player, we all know the biggest push against the scum team was yours trully
Will post another post tying everything together
hey I knew BDS was a wolf, you just convinced me to change my vote!
Quote from: fank009 on December 31, 2014, 02:14:37 PMWhat's with all this pride... you're making me seem humble :/
Just clarifying things.
Case against FA. As I hinted in chat... you were seer'd red, you didn't need that much of a case against you, wanting in actives day 1 didn't help. You did not have that smart of a defense, basically it was, they are scummy because they are going for me and I'm not scum. Please hindsight guide us in this misconception.
You were a valid d1 lynch and the only reason you weren't lynched was because olimar was too pushy.
As much as yugi was a pivotal player, we all know the biggest push against the scum team was yours trully
Will post another post tying everything together
The case against me and the case I was using were actually very similar. You guys said Toby's seer is real, your fake. I said Toby's seer is fake and I'm real. At the time, any piece of evidence that could lean to one seer was invalid, which you can reread day 1 if you want to know why. What should of happened was "We need this cardflip and we don't know who the other seer is." If NoS was a human, he would of been the most sensible player day 1.
And the lynching inactive things was literally me saying "what would I do as a human... oh yeah, I'd lynch inactives because they're my pet peeve." You guys read way too far into that, there wasn't really any other motive than to look human (which I suck at... really badly.)
NoS should get human MVP even though he wasn't human.
Yugi is probably the most valuable of the humans. His logic regarding the analysis of facts was bad, but he read into me and blues behavior really well (as in, he went beyond "you are jumpy.")
Quote from: Waddle Bro on December 31, 2014, 05:53:26 AMviolating the wolf team in the end 8)
i'm not sure what you mean by this