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Author Topic: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek  (Read 456 times)

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[MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« on: May 31, 2020, 09:46:06 PM »

Submission Information:

Series: Other
Game: Persona 5
Console: Multiplatform
Title: Our Beginning
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Code_Name_Geek
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 05:29:45 PM by Libera »
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2020, 09:46:21 PM »


Edit: Old video got taken down.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 05:00:51 AM by Code_Name_Geek »
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2020, 01:08:30 AM »

Only taking a cursory look right now, but a couple of things to start!
- This would definitely mess with the nice measure distribution but you may want to consider writing in the intro as a tremolo in LH notes to achieve that buildup effect
- Be careful with your tie directions - sometimes multiple layers will throw off the default direction when you don't want them to, or Finale's default just isn't right. For example in m. 1 the ties between the lowest notes in the RH should still point downwards because there is nothing below them. The inner ties between the first tied chords in m. 4 should be flipped to avoid overlapping. The LH tie between m. 19-20 should point up away from the moving bottom voice, and similarly for the tie entering 22. You can easily use Ctrl+F to flip ties you want, although I think you'll have to use the special tie tool for the one enterint 22. (Everything past 22 looks good though)
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2020, 08:16:46 PM »

- This would definitely mess with the nice measure distribution but you may want to consider writing in the intro as a tremolo in LH notes to achieve that buildup effect
Added this, it did squish things a bit but I think the measure distribution will be okay after all. I wasn't entirely sure whether to make it a pickup measure or a 2/4 bar since there are some stray 2/4 bars in the rest of the piece, though... I went with a pickup measure for now.

- Be careful with your tie directions - sometimes multiple layers will throw off the default direction when you don't want them to, or Finale's default just isn't right. For example in m. 1 the ties between the lowest notes in the RH should still point downwards because there is nothing below them. The inner ties between the first tied chords in m. 4 should be flipped to avoid overlapping. The LH tie between m. 19-20 should point up away from the moving bottom voice, and similarly for the tie entering 22. You can easily use Ctrl+F to flip ties you want, although I think you'll have to use the special tie tool for the one enterint 22. (Everything past 22 looks good though)
I tried to fix as many of these as I could, but I actually don't know a whole lot about the rules for tie placements so let me know if there's anything I missed.

Thanks for taking a look!
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2020, 09:58:36 PM »

Sorry for the wait on feedback, but here we go anyway.

Firstly, the most important thing to mention is that the barring isn't correct in the 'triumphant' sections, which causes these stray 2/4 bars that you mentioned which surround those sections.
Basically, the current pickup actually starts on beat 1 of the first bar and your current bars start on beat 3.  It's not immediately clear that this is the case until the figure in bar 7-8 which makes vastly more sense with the barlines shifted.  Then when the drums properly come in at bar 10, it's really obvious that the barring has gone awry.

Now onto the more usual feedback:

-Missing G before B in bar 1 on beat 4.  Same in bar 4, 10 etc.
-Bar 6, the right hand B should be an An.
-Not sure about the sus4 A chord in bars 7-8 and 16.  I can hear a C# rather than a D in those places.
-Quavers in bar 32 move upwards to C# E rather than staying at B D like before.
-The lower line in 23 goes F# G F# D#, rather than what you've written.
-I'd have a closer listen to what the bass is doing at the end of 12 and 22.  It's quite different to what you've written down.
-Any reason for the middle note to drop to an A in the second left hand chord in 35,37 etc, rather than just sticking with power chords?  It sounds kind of off to me.
-More generally, this section (35-36) feels kind of weak compared with the original and with the opening of the arrangement.  There's less instruments for you to draw on which makes it more difficult, I understand, but we can probably still get a more exciting sound.  Something I might suggest is trying to make more of the bass and rhythm lines in the left hand, leaving the right hand to do the call and response on its own.  That way, the right hand isn't stuck doing nothing every other bar, which is currently killing a lot of the energy in my opinion.  Another thing you could try, if you didn't like that, is to put some more of the guitar rhythms into the right hand, which would also give it something to do in every bar.
-Harmony seemingly drops out in 45-46 in the right hand.
-This is mostly an issue from 35, but it also exists on the opening page to a lesser extent: be careful with the middle ties on chords.  Sometimes, when there isn't much space, finale has a tendency to really squish the middle ties unnecessarily, so you often need to go in and manually adjust these to make them look normal.  (Sometimes finale can squish these so much that they pretty much disappear!)
-I'm not sure about the chords you've written in at the end.  I hear something more like this (though you might want to move the C# in the second chord down an octave so it's below the melody):
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Hope that helps!

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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2020, 10:41:16 PM »

Firstly, the most important thing to mention is that the barring isn't correct in the 'triumphant' sections, which causes these stray 2/4 bars that you mentioned which surround those sections.
Basically, the current pickup actually starts on beat 1 of the first bar and your current bars start on beat 3.  It's not immediately clear that this is the case until the figure in bar 7-8 which makes vastly more sense with the barlines shifted.  Then when the drums properly come in at bar 10, it's really obvious that the barring has gone awry.
That... explains a lot actually. I thought the part at measures 7-8 was really weird in the old barring. Anyways, all of those sections have been redone and fixed.

-Missing G before B in bar 1 on beat 4.  Same in bar 4, 10 etc.
-Bar 6, the right hand B should be an An.
-Not sure about the sus4 A chord in bars 7-8 and 16.  I can hear a C# rather than a D in those places.
-Quavers in bar 32 move upwards to C# E rather than staying at B D like before.
-The lower line in 23 goes F# G F# D#, rather than what you've written.
- Done.

-I'd have a closer listen to what the bass is doing at the end of 12 and 22.  It's quite different to what you've written down.
-Any reason for the middle note to drop to an A in the second left hand chord in 35,37 etc, rather than just sticking with power chords?  It sounds kind of off to me.
- For m. 12, I'm not hearing anything different. I made some slight modifications in m. 22 but I didn't hear anything wildly different than what I had, however I'm having trouble hearing that part so I could be wrong. (I realize the bar numbers changed, so those are the old bar numbers; I think the new ones are 11 and 21 or something?)
- For the second one, I think I was trying to fill out the chord but it does sound a lot better to keep it as power chords. That's been fixed.

-More generally, this section (35-36) feels kind of weak compared with the original and with the opening of the arrangement.  There's less instruments for you to draw on which makes it more difficult, I understand, but we can probably still get a more exciting sound.  Something I might suggest is trying to make more of the bass and rhythm lines in the left hand, leaving the right hand to do the call and response on its own.  That way, the right hand isn't stuck doing nothing every other bar, which is currently killing a lot of the energy in my opinion.  Another thing you could try, if you didn't like that, is to put some more of the guitar rhythms into the right hand, which would also give it something to do in every bar.
- So here's what I did in this section... I kept the melody the same, but had the doubled octave in the lower voice join in the response instead of just holding through. I also had the middle voice join the rhythm of the bassline to give it some more weight, as well as incorporating the 2 16th notes that are in the guitar comping at the end of phrases. Does that sound better than what I had before?

-Harmony seemingly drops out in 45-46 in the right hand.
-This is mostly an issue from 35, but it also exists on the opening page to a lesser extent: be careful with the middle ties on chords.  Sometimes, when there isn't much space, finale has a tendency to really squish the middle ties unnecessarily, so you often need to go in and manually adjust these to make them look normal.  (Sometimes finale can squish these so much that they pretty much disappear!)
-I'm not sure about the chords you've written in at the end.  I hear something more like this (though you might want to move the C# in the second chord down an octave so it's below the melody):
- Did my best to add the harmony, but I wasn't 100% sure on the notes.
- Went through and fixed a bunch of ties manually; hopefully those look better!
- Yeah those chords were kind of difficult to pick out, that's probably more correct than what I had.

Some other edits:
- added accents to the low timpani notes in 8-9
- I had been thinking of how to differentiate the second repeat of the melody at the beginning (beyond just dynamics) since the instrumentation changes in the original, and I decided to try putting the second time up the octave. Thoughts?

Sorry for the wait on feedback, but here we go anyway.
~~~
Hope that helps!
No worries, thanks for the help! This is a tough one so I appreciate it a lot.
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2020, 11:39:23 AM »

Sorry for again taking a while to get back to you.  This looks much better now!

- For m. 12, I'm not hearing anything different. I made some slight modifications in m. 22 but I didn't hear anything wildly different than what I had, however I'm having trouble hearing that part so I could be wrong. (I realize the bar numbers changed, so those are the old bar numbers; I think the new ones are 11 and 21 or something?)

I'm not sure why I wrote what I did.  I think I was actually talking about bars 17 and 21, but I had a look at them again and they seem fine.  I think the rhythms were just confusing me.

- So here's what I did in this section... I kept the melody the same, but had the doubled octave in the lower voice join in the response instead of just holding through. I also had the middle voice join the rhythm of the bassline to give it some more weight, as well as incorporating the 2 16th notes that are in the guitar comping at the end of phrases. Does that sound better than what I had before?

Yes this looks much better than before!  Thanks for having a think about it.

- I had been thinking of how to differentiate the second repeat of the melody at the beginning (beyond just dynamics) since the instrumentation changes in the original, and I decided to try putting the second time up the octave. Thoughts?

This works for me!



Other edits look good also.  One thing I'd suggest though is putting in double barlines at the tempo changes; I think it'd look at lot clear that way.  Other than that, I don't think I have anything else to add.  Nice work.

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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2020, 05:40:31 PM »

Other edits look good also.  One thing I'd suggest though is putting in double barlines at the tempo changes; I think it'd look at lot clear that way.  Other than that, I don't think I have anything else to add.  Nice work.
Good idea, done!
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2020, 05:56:32 PM »

Great!  I'll fix the articulations later on.

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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2020, 03:52:13 PM »

Nice work :) I'm mostly here to point out some more flipped things...
- m. 9 beats 3-4 RH
- m. 15 beats 1-2 RH
- Staccatos in m. 21
- m. 33 beat 1 LH
- Tie between the last two measures

Also, not totally sure, but I think the song returns to the original slightly slower tempo at the m. 26 section instead of at m. 33?
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 02:27:36 AM »

Nice work :) I'm mostly here to point out some more flipped things...
- m. 9 beats 3-4 RH
- m. 15 beats 1-2 RH
- Staccatos in m. 21
- m. 33 beat 1 LH
- Tie between the last two measures

Also, not totally sure, but I think the song returns to the original slightly slower tempo at the m. 26 section instead of at m. 33?
- Fixed all the parts that needed to be flipped.
- I checked it again and I think you're right about the tempo, so I changed that as well. Since that section doesn't feel as triumphant as the beginning, I just put Tempo primo at m. 26 and kept the "Triumphant" marking where it was.
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 08:01:41 AM »

I'd now suggest another double barline at the tempo primo.

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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 05:31:23 PM »

I'd now suggest another double barline at the tempo primo.
Ah yes, that would make sense. Thanks for the reminder, fixed!
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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 08:31:30 PM »

I was actually suggesting using an additional one at the tempo primo whilst still keeping the one at triumphant, but if you'd prefer to move it that's cool as well.

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Re: [MUL] Persona 5 - "Our Beginning" by Code_Name_Geek
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2020, 12:16:27 AM »

For my two cents, I think this works fine as you have it now, but feel free to do the above as well. Let me know when you're done and I'll accept :)
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