[GCN] Pokémon Colosseum - "Normal Battle" by Kricketune54

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Colosseum
Console: Nintendo GameCube
Title: Normal Battle
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Kricketune54

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kricketune54]

[Zeila]

Welcome to NSM! Nice attempt and choice of song :3

Formatting

• I did some margin, text, and staff size updates according to the guidelines since you presumably only have Notepad; in the future you could try using this thread to check for templates you can paste over, although I think the some of the text is still not aligned to the margins; alternatively you could post here and wait for someone to eventually help with formatting issues so that it is ready for submissions
• In the future you should use English names for the game subtitle
• You were missing a dynamic but I put mf for now, and the tempo marking was moved to be aligned with the time signature
• Added measure numbers
• m18 changed the sextuplet to two triplets
• Updated the note beamings so that the eighth notes were more separated, and rebar'd the music so that quarter and half notes wouldn't extend pass the 3rd beat (which generally shouldn't happen in 4/4 if those start on off beats). It's just cleaner and easier to understand at first glance, so it would be good to avoid that in the future (here's a guide about note beaming although it is not fully comprehensive)
• This is something for you to change, but if you're going to add a bunch of tied notes under the melody, then please use layers instead or just get rid of the tied notes altogether actually after listening to this I don't think any of the tied notes are necessary at all. Just restrike them, remove them, or put a different note according to what the harmony is playing (e.g. m14 instead of the tied Eb, the second one could be an Ab; also the first Eb should be an F anyways)
• Changed the time signature to C minor

Notes

• m1-4 LH sounds like there are 5th's/G's above the C; also I think it would be better to emphasize the percussion so I added octaves, feel free to change that
• In general the note lengths are off in some parts, like how m5 beat 2.5 should actually be tied
• Overall it could use more articulation like some staccatos on beats 1.5/2/3.5/4 of measures 5 and 6
• m5-12 you're missing out on some of the movement of the piece and I think it would be better if you added a few more eighth notes in between the chords
• m13-22 you could definitely make the LH more interesting; one thing you could do is take inspiration from the percussion part and put power chords on the snare drum strikes, but feel free to experiment more with it
• m13-22 RH could also use some more harmonies in order to capture the original better

This wasn't super extensive but it is just to get you started. Here's the file I edited

[Kricketune54]

Zeila,

Thank you for the pointers, I really appreciate it!  This is my first time ever really trying to transcribe like this before.  I am currently working on some of the things you suggested and should have another version up some time tomorrow. 

Couple questions/ideas:

I know you struck your comment out about, but I was thinking of trying different voices/layers.  Is this not possible in Notepad?

For your m 5-12 comment, were you saying more eighths on both would work better?


If anyone else also has some pointers about anything let me know

[Kricketune54]

Welcome to NSM! Nice attempt and choice of song :3

Formatting

• I did some margin, text, and staff size updates according to the guidelines since you presumably only have Notepad; in the future you could try using this thread to check for templates you can paste over, although I think the some of the text is still not aligned to the margins; alternatively you could post here and wait for someone to eventually help with formatting issues so that it is ready for submissions
• In the future you should use English names for the game subtitle
• You were missing a dynamic but I put mf for now, and the tempo marking was moved to be aligned with the time signature
• Added measure numbers
• m18 changed the sextuplet to two triplets
• Updated the note beamings so that the eighth notes were more separated, and rebar'd the music so that quarter and half notes wouldn't extend pass the 3rd beat (which generally shouldn't happen in 4/4 if those start on off beats). It's just cleaner and easier to understand at first glance, so it would be good to avoid that in the future (here's a guide about note beaming although it is not fully comprehensive)
• This is something for you to change, but if you're going to add a bunch of tied notes under the melody, then please use layers instead or just get rid of the tied notes altogether actually after listening to this I don't think any of the tied notes are necessary at all. Just restrike them, remove them, or put a different note according to what the harmony is playing (e.g. m14 instead of the tied Eb, the second one could be an Ab; also the first Eb should be an F anyways)
• Changed the time signature to C minor

Notes

• m1-4 LH sounds like there are 5th's/G's above the C; also I think it would be better to emphasize the percussion so I added octaves, feel free to change that
• In general the note lengths are off in some parts, like how m5 beat 2.5 should actually be tied
• Overall it could use more articulation like some staccatos on beats 1.5/2/3.5/4 of measures 5 and 6
• m5-12 you're missing out on some of the movement of the piece and I think it would be better if you added a few more eighth notes in between the chords
• m13-22 you could definitely make the LH more interesting; one thing you could do is take inspiration from the percussion part and put power chords on the snare drum strikes, but feel free to experiment more with it
• m13-22 RH could also use some more harmonies in order to capture the original better

This wasn't super extensive but it is just to get you started. Here's the file I edited

Just reuploaded all files.  Separated some parts into different voices to better capture the chords as well as the piece's movement.  For reference, I am converting from MuseScore to a NinSheetMusic Notepad template as well as your edits.[/list]

[Zeila]

Zeila,

Thank you for the pointers, I really appreciate it!  This is my first time ever really trying to transcribe like this before.

Couple questions/ideas:

I know you struck your comment out about, but I was thinking of trying different voices/layers.  Is this not possible in Notepad?

You're welcome! I responded to this late but it seems like you found your answer already, although measures 5-6 and 9-10 have the bottom layer facing up when it should be down. I don't know if there's a way to fix that in notepad but you can try pressing the 'L' key to see if it would work

For your m 5-12 comment, were you saying more eighths on both would work better?

I meant just in the LH, sorry for the confusion

Just reuploaded all files.  Separated some parts into different voices to better capture the chords as well as the piece's movement.  For reference, I am converting from MuseScore to a NinSheetMusic Notepad template as well as your edits.[/list]

Next time it would be better if you just put your edits in an already existing updated/edited file instead of a template since the template is just to get people started, and the one you used actually had some margin issues while the XML import tempo was improperly aligned. I guess someone should update those templates eventually, or maybe Musescore files will be accepted before then...

Moving on from that though, it's good that you used layers but now some notes/intervals are impossible to play like in measure 13, 15, and others, so that section should be modified somehow. This also extends to the m5-12 RH part, and although those notes could be played with the LH technically, I think it would be better if they were removed. If you still want to add them, then just add it to the LH part instead of as a second layer in the RH

Now to address stuff from last time:

• Updated the note beamings so that the eighth notes were more separated, and rebar'd the music so that quarter and half notes wouldn't extend pass the 3rd beat (which generally shouldn't happen in 4/4 if those start on off beats). It's just cleaner and easier to understand at first glance, so it would be good to avoid that in the future (here's a guide about note beaming although it is not fully comprehensive)

The note beaming is still not proper since there are notes extending past the strong beat when started on an off beat, and the eighth notes in m5 and 9 weren't connected. I think it is good practice to keep that in mind while you arrange in general, but in Notepad you can just highlight a region and click Utilities -> Rebar -> Rebar Music for a general update

• Overall it could use more articulation like some staccatos on beats 1.5/2/3.5/4 of measures 5 and 6

I think you did an over-correction on placing staccatos, as I think the dotted eighth note in m7 should be a quarter note in length (but written as tied eighth notes) while the eighth note after that doesn't sound like it should be staccato'd

• m13-22 RH could also use some more harmonies in order to capture the original better

You did add more but you're still missing out on some (e.g. m13 beat 2, and m17-18 in general) and others could be changed to different notes (e.g. m14 beat 2.5 or m15 beat 1). If you still can't hear it then I or someone else can help

Other small things I noticed at the moment:

• m12 RH grace note should be slurred
• m13 RH Ab and C eighth note dyad sounds like it should be tied to a sixteenth note instead of having a sixteenth rest afterwards
  
• m19 RH beams should be flipped
• m29 RH Gb's would be better written as F#'s
• m27-30 LH you could add some power chords or octaves on the snare hits to make it a little more interesting here too

The other changes you made were fine. I edited the file again, but I didn't mess with the measure distribution aside from any automatic changes within Finale since they're bound to change based on future updates

[Kricketune54]

Worked this time from your edited file:

Now to address stuff from last time:The note beaming is still not proper since there are notes extending past the strong beat when started on an off beat, and the eighth notes in m5 and 9 weren't connected. I think it is good practice to keep that in mind while you arrange in general, but in Notepad you can just highlight a region and click Utilities -> Rebar -> Rebar Music for a general update
I think you did an over-correction on placing staccatos, as I think the dotted eighth note in m7 should be a quarter note in length (but written as tied eighth notes) while the eighth note after that doesn't sound like it should be staccato'd
You did add more but you're still missing out on some (e.g. m13 beat 2, and m17-18 in general) and others could be changed to different notes (e.g. m14 beat 2.5 or m15 beat 1). If you still can't hear it then I or someone else can help

So I looked through the arrangement, and to my knowledge, there are no note beaming issues anymore, but I have some screen shots attached about ones I was a little unsure of (i.e. lh m13-20 rhythm)!

You did add more but you're still missing out on some (e.g. m13 beat 2, and m17-18 in general) and others could be changed to different notes (e.g. m14 beat 2.5 or m15 beat 1). If you still can't hear it then I or someone else can help

Added more harmonies all around, though I refrained from some of the eighth and sixteenth moving parts.  I also deleted some of the staccatos.  I think there is an issue where your staccatos are not translating into notepad well.  I didn't do anything to them this time around because it is admittedly a bit tedious to edit them and replace so I held off this go around.

It'd definitely be less of a hassle if MuseScore was accepted because beyond the .mus files, it seems like all the other parts of submissions are possible without the added wrangling that occurs from trying to work with the limitations of Finale Notepad.

Thanks once again

[Zeila]

So I looked through the arrangement, and to my knowledge, there are no note beaming issues anymore, but I have some screen shots attached about ones I was a little unsure of (i.e. lh m13-20 rhythm)!

Wait where??

Added more harmonies all around, though I refrained from some of the eighth and sixteenth moving parts.  I also deleted some of the staccatos.  I think there is an issue where your staccatos are not translating into notepad well.  I didn't do anything to them this time around because it is admittedly a bit tedious to edit them and replace so I held off this go around.

It's fine if you want to omit harmonies in those spots. Regarding the staccato's, it's good you didn't bother yet because that's an issue with Finale v26. Someone with Finale v25 can automatically edit articulation positions back to the default

It'd definitely be less of a hassle if MuseScore was accepted because beyond the .mus files, it seems like all the other parts of submissions are possible without the added wrangling that occurs from trying to work with the limitations of Finale Notepad.

Thanks once again

Yeah it's been discussed a lot and I don't know if/when that will happen. And you're welcome :3


Some other stuff:

• You have a tie on the E in the LH part of m6 and 10, but because they are currently leading towards separate layers it doesn't play in the midi file. Are the ties intentional?
• Continuing with the layer stuff, I swapped some of them so that it is more consistent (so the above problem doesn't exist anymore, but I'm still wondering if the ties are intentional or not); I also flipped the half notes in m20 for you
• I think it would be nice if there was some dynamic contrast between the m13-22, m23-26, and m27-30 sections. Like if m23-26 was mezzo piano and m27-30 was forte, although feel free to do something different
• m13-19 LH while it does sound like an E is consistently played, I think it would be better if you focused on the bass note playing at the time, which would either be Ab or Db; also if you do change the bottom layer to just a Db in m14/16/18, then you should also delete and rewrite the first dotted eighth notes in the upper voice of the LH so that they would reset to their default positions
• m18 RH instead of thirds the harmony goes Ab-Ab-C-Ab-Ab
• m27-30 RH it sounds like you're swapping the primary melody between two different voices (i.e. you drop the upper octave on beat 3.5 of m27 and then you completely drop the piano part and focus on the brass harmony in beats 1-2 and 4 of m29); it would be better if there was more consistency, and I think in m28 the bottom note should be inverted up so that the Bb-Anat part is on top; also, I think it is worth adding a few harmonies in this part too like the G's in m27 or a D in the final chord

[file]

[Kricketune54]

Wait where??

Oh I was having trouble figuring out how to attach screen shots and I meant to take that line out...

I actually goofed with those ties m6 and m10!  Got lost in the sauce I guess I haha

m13-19 LH while it does sound like an E is consistently played, I think it would be better if you focused on the bass note playing at the time, which would either be Ab or Db; also if you do change the bottom layer to just a Db in m14/16/18, then you should also delete and rewrite the first dotted eighth notes in the upper voice of the LH so that they would reset to their default positions.

I tried to focus on the bass notes for that section- though I didn't want to compromise the dotted eight line by going down a step on the Ab so I all I really did was remove the Eb whole note and kept the Ab and Db (fixed dotted eighths to default).

m27-30 RH it sounds like you're swapping the primary melody between two different voices (i.e. you drop the upper octave on beat 3.5 of m27 and then you completely drop the piano part and focus on the brass harmony in beats 1-2 and 4 of m29); it would be better if there was more consistency, and I think in m28 the bottom note should be inverted up so that the Bb-Anat part is on top; also, I think it is worth adding a few harmonies in this part too like the G's in m27 or a D in the final chord

So this was this way because I was trying to emulate the piano part with how it does not have the primary melody in the original at m27.  I do like this file's replacement version for capturing the actual melody better.

Added some crescendo and decrescendo between 13 and 16. I know that's not how the piece is written, but I thought it might add some healthy dynamic contrast.

Also just wanted to circle on something I didn't really address yet, but you had mentioned that I needed to have English subtitles.  What should it be in this case?

[Zeila]

I tried to focus on the bass notes for that section- though I didn't want to compromise the dotted eight line by going down a step on the Ab so I all I really did was remove the Eb whole note and kept the Ab and Db (fixed dotted eighths to default).

What you have now is fine to me

Added some crescendo and decrescendo between 13 and 16. I know that's not how the piece is written, but I thought it might add some healthy dynamic contrast.

I see that those are gone in the new file from the 19th. I think it's better without the the crescendo/decrescendo's in that spot

Also just wanted to circle on something I didn't really address yet, but you had mentioned that I needed to have English subtitles.  What should it be in this case?

I just meant that the game title should generally be the English version, and it's already changed to that now. Initially it was "Pokemon Colésseum" when the actual title is "Pokémon Colosseum"

Another thing is that the page two text and overall system distribution get messed up somehow (in both the pdf and the mus). I guess whoever does the final check can adjust it. Other than that I think it looks fine now. Nice work :3

[Kricketune54]

whoever does the final check can adjust it. Other than that I think it looks fine now. Nice work :3

Okay thank you for the update!

[mastersuperfan]

Looking pretty good! Some more suggestions I have:
- I get that the extra C's in LH m1-4 on top are supposed to replicate the percussion in the original, but I don't think they work super well since they're higher than the other LH notes, instead of lower). I would suggest either changing the high C's to low G's, removing the high C's entirely and replacing them with accents where percussion strikes, or just remove the high C's and not replace them with anything at all. (your choice)
- For m7/11 LH beat 1, I would change the Eb-B dyad from an eighth note into a dotted quarter note in order to keep the LH continuous. It's true that, in the original track, it's staccato, but when both the melody and LH dyad are staccato in the sheet, beats 1.5-2 feel a bit empty to me.
- For m7/8/11/12 LH, it would just be cleaner to keep the dyads held until the very end of the measure, instead of leaving an eighth rest or quarter rest at the end.
- Also, for m8, it would probably be easier/clearer to move the Layer 2 C from the RH into Layer 1 of the LH.
- Here's what I recommend for m12 (you should be able to hear the chord progressively inverting upwards in the original):


- For m13-20, you might consider incorporating the LH bottom notes directly as part of the rhythmic upper layer (i.e. combine them into one layer so that the bottom note is also played rhythmically), which would keep the low register rhythmic and driving like it was in the m1-12. It's completely up to you, though.
- It's tricky to play parallel octaves or repeated notes at the pace of 16th notes in m19-21 RH. In m19 RH, I would remove the bottom note on the second and third 16th notes. In m20 RH, I would remove both bottom notes on the second 16th note (beat 3.25), leaving only the upper F.
In m21, I would remove both bottom notes on the last 16th note (beat 4.75), leaving only the upper F. (To simplify it even further, in m20-21, you might consider removing the bottom notes on ALL the 16th notes, not just the second in each pair.)
- In m23-26, I would double the LH an octave below to give it some more emphasis in the low register.
- m29 RH beat 1 sounds like it should be G-D-G, rather than Bn-G-Bn.

Formatting things:
- The space between staves is really cramped, and the space between systems on page 1 is also pretty small. Not sure if you can do this in Notepad, but I would spread the staves and systems further apart so everything has more breathing room (and consequently move the 5th system onto the second page, instead of cramming five systems on the first page).

- Just as an updater's note, someone with Finale 25 will need to reset articulations on this sometime. Someone else can get this for you later.

[Kricketune54]

- The space between staves is really cramped, and the space between systems on page 1 is also pretty small. Not sure if you can do this in Notepad, but I would spread the staves and systems further apart so everything has more breathing room (and consequently move the 5th system onto the second page, instead of cramming five systems on the first page).

I looked into it, and I can't do this with Finale Notepad.

Just as an updater's note, someone with Finale 25 will need to reset articulations on this sometime. Someone else can get this for you later.

I actually can fix the articulations... manually.  Can this be done automatically in Finale 25?

[mastersuperfan]

I actually can fix the articulations... manually.  Can this be done automatically in Finale 25?

Yeah, it only takes a second to reset all of them simultaneously in Finale 25. Don't worry about it for now.

[Kricketune54]

Yeah, it only takes a second to reset all of them simultaneously in Finale 25. Don't worry about it for now.

Cool, thanks! I think I'm out of luck on the other formatting changes regarding the systems and staves due to NotePad missing the staff tool.

I've made almost all the changes but I'm a little confused on this part

For m13-20, you might consider incorporating the LH bottom notes directly as part of the rhythmic upper layer (i.e. combine them into one layer so that the bottom note is also played rhythmically), which would keep the low register rhythmic and driving like it was in the m1-12. It's completely up to you, though.

If I'm understanding correctly, you recommend the voices be combined 13-20 so that the whole note (second voice) is the same rhythm as the top notes of LH (first voice)?