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TWG CXVI: Assassin's Gambit (Game Ovev? GAMA OVAR?!)

Started by Kaiveran, September 21, 2023, 10:52:01 PM

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A# Minor

forgive me for being dumb


but "midnight" always confuses me


the phase ends 24 hours from now, right?
hey! listen!! ⬆️


haha get drowned
[close]

I unintentionally set an avatar that matches my custom title (Termina Tango) and now I don't want to post

Kaiveran

Quote from: A# Minor on September 22, 2023, 10:04:23 PMforgive me for being dumb


but "midnight" always confuses me


the phase ends 24 hours from now, right?

A bit less than 24 hours if there's a majority, with another 24h extension if not.
Early Countdown
Late Countdown
~ Kai Lugheidh | http://pronoun.is/ey ~

Kaiveran

VOTECOUNT 0.1

BlackDragonSlayer – (0/6) – XiaoMigros
davy – (1/6) – XiaoMigros
SpecsFlyer17 – (1/6) – threalmathguy

I may have accidentally PM'd this votecount to someone apologies if so!
~ Kai Lugheidh | http://pronoun.is/ey ~

davy

Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on September 22, 2023, 09:30:49 PMSo since there's not a concerted push to lynch me right now I feel comfortable claiming: I am a hot target. Obv not saying which color. Come get me assassins.

Hot targets: do not claim to TZP
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow
[davy]'s in a way different time zone so basically he pops in at like 2 AM and posts 500 words and wins the game

davy

Quote from: Toby on September 22, 2023, 03:31:03 PM2)I don't think you're able to reliable enforce this because there will be reverse psychology from the assasins but also its natural instinct for a human to defend themselves because they'll have their own opinion on who is a better lynch. There's not really anyway to enforce this because people are going to push their own suspicions regardless and re directing is a form of defense. you cant just expect people to be silent and give up once they get voted just because theyre town

As I said before, but bears repeating:

Quote from: davy on September 22, 2023, 01:06:44 PMAlso to clarify: not defending yourself does not mean you can't push for a different lynch in my book, so a player under fire can still try to get a different lynch going.



Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on September 22, 2023, 09:12:46 PMHowever....

What if an Assassin starts collecting lynch votes! They're likely going to just claim Normal Human to avoid losing on the spot. If we establish a Normal Human does NOT defend themselves, wouldn't that pin the Assassin? Basically, if someone starts collecting lynch votes and defends themselves, it means they're an Assassin.

That be a good strategy in a different TWG since a townie being lynched directly helps the wolf. But here, it doesn't directly affect the Assassin- the Ward could end up dying too.

So, I think I'm leaning towards "Normal Humans" NOT defend themselves in an effort to pin an Assassin, at least in the early game.

This guy gets it.



Quote from: A# Minor on September 22, 2023, 09:15:46 PMso if people want to lynch me, I just sit back and be like "noice, bye bye guys"

cool

You can still push for an alternative lynch in this case.



Quote from: TheZeldaPianist275 on September 22, 2023, 11:45:58 AMKai, are cardflips just the color of the person killed, or do they say the explicit role of the deceased?

Kai, could you clarify this?
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow
[davy]'s in a way different time zone so basically he pops in at like 2 AM and posts 500 words and wins the game

davy

Quote from: Kaiveran on September 22, 2023, 11:39:15 PMBlackDragonSlayer – (0/6) – XiaoMigros
davy – (1/6) – XiaoMigros
SpecsFlyer17 – (1/6) – threalmathguy

You missed BDS's vote for me.
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow
[davy]'s in a way different time zone so basically he pops in at like 2 AM and posts 500 words and wins the game

davy

Okay, with the first 24 hours of Day 0 over, let's move on to a suspicion list (with help from BDS's activity list).

Assassin lean

1. XiaoMigros. They are playing very differntly from last game, with very little involvement with the thread. Could be an assassin trying to figure out their own strategy which limits them from joining in formulating a town strategy. Also, when BDS persuaded him not to vote him, he immediately changed his vote to the player BDS was also voting for, which is something I wouldn't really see town!Xiao do.

2. Toby. Toby seems a bit too absent from this game, missing several key points in the discussion between BDS and me. Like with Xiao, I think this points to him being an assassin trying to figure out their own strategy which limits them from joining in formulating a town strategy. Now there was a lot to digest with the convo between me and BDS, but I know Toby as a player capable of digesting a lot of info. While I'm more suspicious of Xiao, I'm placing my vote on Toby mostly to motivate him to get more involved in the game, because an involved town!Toby is very helpful to town.

Neutral lean

3. The Musical Poet. Comes across as a new player enthousiastic about playing the game. I have no clue how she normally plays town or assassin, so have no conclusions to draw from her posts so far.

4. A# Minor. Playing the same as previous games. Either town!A# being town!A# or wolf!A# immitating town!A#. As with The Musical Poet, I have no clue what her wolf game would look like.

Slight Town Lean

5. SpecsFlyer17. Gets town points for actively joining the town strategy discussion as a newer player, which changes them from a neutral to a slight Town Lean.

Town Lean

6. BlackDragonSlayer. Being quite aggressive? Check. Being a bit too sure of himself? Check. Feels like normal town!BDS to me so far.

Strong Town Lean

7. TheZeldaPianist. I doubt assassin!TZP would fake claim hot target.

(Mostly) Inactive
  • therealmathguy
  • ThatHiddenCharacter
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow
[davy]'s in a way different time zone so basically he pops in at like 2 AM and posts 500 words and wins the game

BlackDragonSlayer

I forgot if I've already mentioned this, but worth noting is that if a ward is up for lynch it's entirely possible for an assassin to subtly defend them/push for an alternative lynch (especially early on before the lynch gains too much traction), which would also invalidate further benefit from davy's plan.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
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Story Thread
The Dread Somber

Toby

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 23, 2023, 04:16:59 AMI forgot if I've already mentioned this, but worth noting is that if a ward is up for lynch it's entirely possible for an assassin to subtly defend them/push for an alternative lynch (especially early on before the lynch gains too much traction), which would also invalidate further benefit from davy's plan.

There are certain things best left unsaid and this is definitely one

There's no reason this needed to be revealed unless you were using it against someone, which you're not

Toby

Quote from: Kaiveran on September 22, 2023, 11:39:15 PMVOTECOUNT 0.1

BlackDragonSlayer – (0/6) – XiaoMigros
davy – (1/6) – XiaoMigros
SpecsFlyer17 – (1/6) – threalmathguy

I may have accidentally PM'd this votecount to someone apologies if so!

I voted TZP

Toby

Quote from: The Musical Poet on September 22, 2023, 04:40:12 PMI will be catching up on this after I finish my work. And hopefully I will be able to respond in time.

Since TZP is hot target im going to vote musical poet for not responding yet

Toby

Quote from: davy on September 23, 2023, 12:33:28 AMOkay, with the first 24 hours of Day 0 over, let's move on to a suspicion list (with help from BDS's activity list).

Assassin lean

1. XiaoMigros. They are playing very differntly from last game, with very little involvement with the thread. Could be an assassin trying to figure out their own strategy which limits them from joining in formulating a town strategy. Also, when BDS persuaded him not to vote him, he immediately changed his vote to the player BDS was also voting for, which is something I wouldn't really see town!Xiao do.

2. Toby. Toby seems a bit too absent from this game, missing several key points in the discussion between BDS and me. Like with Xiao, I think this points to him being an assassin trying to figure out their own strategy which limits them from joining in formulating a town strategy. Now there was a lot to digest with the convo between me and BDS, but I know Toby as a player capable of digesting a lot of info. While I'm more suspicious of Xiao, I'm placing my vote on Toby mostly to motivate him to get more involved in the game, because an involved town!Toby is very helpful to town.

Neutral lean

3. The Musical Poet. Comes across as a new player enthousiastic about playing the game. I have no clue how she normally plays town or assassin, so have no conclusions to draw from her posts so far.

4. A# Minor. Playing the same as previous games. Either town!A# being town!A# or wolf!A# immitating town!A#. As with The Musical Poet, I have no clue what her wolf game would look like.

Slight Town Lean

5. SpecsFlyer17. Gets town points for actively joining the town strategy discussion as a newer player, which changes them from a neutral to a slight Town Lean.

Town Lean

6. BlackDragonSlayer. Being quite aggressive? Check. Being a bit too sure of himself? Check. Feels like normal town!BDS to me so far.

Strong Town Lean

7. TheZeldaPianist. I doubt assassin!TZP would fake claim hot target.

(Mostly) Inactive
  • therealmathguy
  • ThatHiddenCharacter

I fully agree I have been absent, my heads been elsewhere which is why I was reluctant to join another game to begin with, and there was a lot of discussion from Davy and BDS that I had to just skim through because I couldn't focus on it

I also didn't follow the logic of a lot of it as any plan we announce an assassin can copy - such as telling humans to not defend themselves. I also feel what we call defending ourselves is very subjective and pushing for another lynch is a given anyway. So I don't really get the logic of the plan at all given everyone is gonna try redirect a lynch anyway, and if you want humans to just play quiet then the assassin will just do that too.

Having hot targets claim I did think about a bit but if the hot targets claim that gives the assasins exactly what they want for their night kill ? And there is no benefit to humans ? If assasins don't know the hot targets, the benefit to humans is they might kill a ward, or the other assassin which is what we want

So TZP claimed hot target, which I think might be okay as a solo claim, but I don't think the other hot target should claim because then at least the assasins might both end up trying to kill TZP and waste a kill. I'm not sure how I judge if 1 hot target claiming is better than 0 but we have the 1 claim now so we can't reverse it lol

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Toby on September 23, 2023, 04:32:01 AMThere are certain things best left unsaid and this is definitely one

There's no reason this needed to be revealed unless you were using it against someone, which you're not
Why? It's fairly obvious reasoning that follows going through with davy's plan, and any town that ignores it is just leaving themselves vulnerable to being taken advantage of.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber

Toby

Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 23, 2023, 04:46:17 AMWhy? It's fairly obvious reasoning that follows going through with davy's plan, and any town that ignores it is just leaving themselves vulnerable to being taken advantage of.

Maybe it's because my mindset is we won't be following Davy plan anyway, but the more we tell the assassins what we are looking for the less reliable it can be

Unless you want to suggest a plan where no one defends anyone this game too lol, I would preferred that reasoning only be brought up to be used to vote against someone rather than just blurted out

BlackDragonSlayer

Quote from: Toby on September 23, 2023, 04:55:06 AMMaybe it's because my mindset is we won't be following Davy plan anyway, but the more we tell the assassins what we are looking for the less reliable it can be
As far as I can tell, it's still a matter of for debate, and I'm adding evidence that could potentially sway people's opinions.

QuoteUnless you want to suggest a plan where no one defends anyone this game too lol, I would preferred that reasoning only be brought up to be used to vote against someone rather than just blurted out
That's fair, but as I said I think it's mostly obvious information to the point where the only people who wouldn't figure it out would be people who might not have been paying close attention to the game so far.

On that note, I do stand by my vote for davy at the moment. I can't help but shake the feeling he's an assassin who made the assumption that he probably only needed to convince one or two people to go along with his plan to get enough traction to get everyone else to follow along. If davy is one of the assassins, he certainly already realized what I mentioned, and knowing this, would have great incentive to continue to try and convince people to follow through with his plan as a method of gaining better control over the lynch (i.e. davy is playing the game to be assassin vs. assassin rather than town vs. assassin). Backing down entirely, however, would look weird for him at this point (and likely would've had to happen much earlier in our discussion), which is why he's only walked back on the idea in steps until the point when enough people have spoken out against it.
And the moral of the story: Quit while you're a head.

Fakemon Dex
NSM Sprite Thread
Compositions
Story Thread
The Dread Somber