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Started by Kaiveran, September 21, 2023, 10:52:01 PM
Quote from: Toby on September 22, 2023, 02:45:03 AMHopefully the assassins kill each other and we win
Quote from: Kaiveran on September 07, 2023, 01:03:42 AMAssassin's Gambit (10p)x1 Red Assassinx1 Blue Assassinx1 Red Assassin Ward – known to Red Assassin, who loses and leaves the game if they die. Does not know they are a Ward.x1 Blue Assassin Ward – known to Blue Assassin, who loses and leaves the game if they die. Does not know they are a Ward.x1 Red Assassin Cold Target – known to Red Assassin. Does not know they are a Target.x1 Blue Assassin Cold Target – known to Blue Assassin. Does not know they are a Target.x1 Red Assassin Hot Target – not known to Red Assassin. Knows they are a Target.x1 Blue Assassin Hot Target – not known to Blue Assassin. Knows they are a Target.x2 Normal Townies
Quote from: NocturneOfShadow[davy]'s in a way different time zone so basically he pops in at like 2 AM and posts 500 words and wins the game
Quote from: davy on September 22, 2023, 03:34:26 AMThere are six human players that don't know their role. In most games, a normal human death is disadvantageous to the humans because it brings the wolves closer to victory. However, in this game a Normal Towny death doesn't progress the game state towards either team's victory, whereas a Ward's death progresses the game towards a human victory. So for two out of three 'normal' humans, death does not progress the game towards the assassins' victory.
QuoteTherefore, I suggest that all players that were told they were normal humans do not focus on defending themselves, and to go down without kicking and screaming if the lynch is turning towards them. The Hot targets can then either chose to also not defend themselves to blend in with the normal humans or opt to defend themselves to prevent progressing the assassins' victory and possibly blend in with the assassins (I leave that decision up to them in order to not give assassins more information with regards to finding them).
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 03:46:25 AMIdeally, our lynches would try to hit either the assassins or the wards as that's the fastest way to guarantee a win.
QuotePlus, if only certain players are "told" to defend themselves, that just benefits the assassins more than it benefits town, both with giving the assassins more information (if someone defends themselves, then it means they're probably a hot target or another assassin), and making it easier for them to push lynches the way they want to.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 03:57:12 AMIn other words, the only truly beneficial human deaths for town are the ward deaths. A normal townie death is mostly neutral (though still kinda disadvantageous because it narrows down the kill selection for the assassins and gives us less votes to work with).
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 03:57:12 AMNow that I think about it a little more, a possible alternative to your strategy would be that the hot targets claim (not which hot target they are, just that they are a hot target) if, and only if, they're becoming the majority lynch target. It gives the assassins a guaranteed kill toward their victory condition, yeah, but it means we don't waste a lynch on them and have the opportunity to lynch a better option. Still kinda risky and not ideal, but better than handing the assassins their victory condition on a silver platter (they gotta work for it, dammit!!! ).
Quote from: davy on September 22, 2023, 03:59:49 AMWards do not know who they are, so the only way town can attempt to lynch them is if the assassins slips up, in which case we should lynch the assassin anyway.
QuoteAlso, I'm pretty sure that "just lynch the wolves" is the ideal strategy in any TWG.
QuoteWhat you say is correct, but is not what I was suggesting. There is a difference between certain players being told to defend themselves (your words), and all other players being told not to defend themselves (my words). The way I said it, a Hot Target may still opt to not defend him/herself or opt to defend him or herself anyway. And I just realised I should probably stop talking about any benifit or detriment of doing one or the other at least in topic to give the assassins as little information about what the Hot Targets may or may not do. Regardless my point that the 'normal townies' shouldn't defend themselves still stands.
Quote from: davy on September 22, 2023, 03:34:26 AMThe Hot targets can then either chose to also not defend themselves to blend in with the normal humans or opt to defend themselves to prevent progressing the assassins' victory and possibly blend in with the assassins (I leave that decision up to them in order to not give assassins more information with regards to finding them).
Quote from: davy on September 22, 2023, 04:03:10 AMIn an ideal scenario we would find a player that we all agree on is most likely human and have the hot targets claim to them. Then that player could chose the lynch targets to make sure we never hit the hot targets as long as that player is still alive.If the player we chose is an assassin, this blows up in our face and we will lose the game, but it is something we've pulled of before on NSM (can't quite find the game again, but maybe someone else can), so it is not completely impossible.
Quote from: davy on September 22, 2023, 04:06:39 AMIt also narrows down the number of players that could possibly be assassin or ward. And while the game is ongoing, each assassin will never be able to outvote their ward and their remaining target, so having less votes should never become an issue.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 04:21:06 AMThe only way town can lynch them deliberately.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 04:21:06 AMYou're suggesting that players on the lynch docket shouldn't try to defend themselves. I'm saying that makes it more likely for us to not lynch the assassins. Using your strategy we're much more likely to hit a non-assassin, non-ward—people being able to defend themselves as normal would go a long way toward potentially directing lynches toward better targets.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 04:21:06 AMI put "told" in quotes for a reason. You explicitly said this in your post (emphasis mine):There's very little reason the hot targets wouldn't defend themselves.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 04:21:06 AMI feel like this post is a bit of a red herring. There aren't any obvious roles to claim to in the first place—that's really the only way claiming strategies are viable.
Quote from: BlackDragonSlayer on September 22, 2023, 04:21:06 AMI think you're forgetting something: the assassins have their own nightkill guaranteed to them, and also have the possibility of getting control of the lynch if they're sufficiently persuasive enough. Town only has the possibility of control over the lynch. It's not about the assassin begin able to strictly outvote remaining players, it's that the assassin has less people they need to convince to sway the lynch the way they want to. Narrowing down the number of players remaining works more in the assassins' favor than it does town's.
Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on September 22, 2023, 06:28:02 AMThat all being said, the point of the Hot Target is to be unknown to the Assassins. Why blow that advantage? The only missing information for the Assassins' win condition would be the other Assassin's identity.I don't think its worth it to claim Hot Target.
Quote from: SpecsFlyer17 on September 22, 2023, 06:28:02 AMUnless a Cold Target is lynched on Day 1, the Assassins will likely kill their respective Cold Targets on Night 1. That leaves us Day 1 and Day 2 to try and figure things out before the Hots are potentially targeted on Night 2. Even still, it's not a guarantee that the Assassins will even target the Hots if they aren't sure which color they are.
Quote from: Waddle Bro on July 14, 2013, 01:48:09 PMme tzpyou tarzan
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