TWG CXX: Lynch the Grynch Game Thread

[davy]

Also, does the phase end in 10 minutes or do we have another hour? (OP mentions two different times for CET and the time displayed on the forum has been screwed up for me since the update).

[SpecsFlyer17]

Also, does the phase end in 10 minutes or do we have another hour? (OP mentions two different times for CET and the time displayed on the forum has been screwed up for me since the update).

Bleh, one hour from now. I may have messed up the timezones. Standby, I'll fix that. Sorry.

[SpecsFlyer17]

Phase time fixed for the UTC and CET times. I messed up the 12h and 24hr conversions. Really sorry about that guys. Phase updates are UTC 9:00p/2100.

Phase update in 55 minutes.

[Oricorio]

So I went over the posts that have been made so far, and don't have a lot to add to the reads that other players have made already.


THC gets human points for being the one to point out that BDS's posts have amounted to "makes sense".

Disagree with THC that there is no difference between Grandma being lynched and her getting kicked out of the game. Grandma getting lynched takes down another human with her. If we lynch someone else, we have a chance of lynching the Grinch with that lynch.


3 of Oricorio's initial 4 posts have been about Grandma. I can't help but be reminded of Lantern game where Oricorio kept talking about the Lanterns when he was the Strange Man. Feels like this is either a repeat of that, or Oricorio being the Grinch deliberately trying to make us think he's Grandma so he doesn't get lynched.

I feel like that is a nothing argument. Nobody had posted anything substantial, so what else was there to talk about besides mechanical discussion? Furthermore, you have been talking about mechanical discussion as well, so what's the point here?

For another question, what is your read on BDS? You apparently seem to agree with THC that their posts aren't worth strongly townreading, but due you feel that they are a GTH wolf like THC does?

[SpecsFlyer17]

Also a few quick updates

After some consideration, the Grinch's win condition will remain the same, and any Day situation where a KitB is the best the town can do will result in a Grinch win. Example, 2v1, but one townie is on the Naughty List.

Also, for day and night phase deaths, a short death post is permitted, provided it's harmless. No information, strategy, tabletalk, etc. Feel free to reach out with any questions.

[davy]

I feel like that is a nothing argument. Nobody had posted anything substantial, so what else was there to talk about besides mechanical discussion? Furthermore, you have been talking about mechanical discussion as well, so what's the point here?

For another question, what is your read on BDS? You apparently seem to agree with THC that their posts aren't worth strongly townreading, but due you feel that they are a GTH wolf like THC does?

Mechanical discussion is the most logical to be discussed, but it can be about human claiming strategies, seering results, the effects of the naughty list during the game, what the nice list can do to counteract, and I'm probably forgetting some others. The point is that your mechanical discussion at the start of the phase was very much focussed on a 3rd party that doesn't affect the human win con.

Considering BDS, I'd GTH lynch him over anyone but you rn, but that's easy to say when half of the player base haven't made any posts of substance, so I'm happy there's 2 more days where everyone should be able to post more stuff before I have to lock in the decision of who to lynch.

[Oricorio]

Mechanical discussion is the most logical to be discussed, but it can be about human claiming strategies, seering results, the effects of the naughty list during the game, what the nice list can do to counteract, and I'm probably forgetting some others. The point is that your mechanical discussion at the start of the phase was very much focussed on a 3rd party that doesn't affect the human win con.

Considering BDS, I'd GTH lynch him over anyone but you rn, but that's easy to say when half of the player base haven't made any posts of substance, so I'm happy there's 2 more days where everyone should be able to post more stuff before I have to lock in the decision of who to lynch.

The Grandma situation is important to parity, and you are ignoring all my later posts. I think it's important to determine how many mislynches town has to work with (which in this case seems to be one), as that is important to establish in order for town to make the best decisions — in fact, it's typically the first thing that town establishes in most other sites. Besides, I am not particularly interested in hearing this argument from you, as you turned out to be wrong with the same line of reasoning in that last game. If you're gonna wolfread me no matter what I do, what's the point?

Anyway, do you have any basic thoughts on TZP or math? You apparently consider them less likely to be the Grinch than BDS, so why?

[davy]

Anyway, do you have any basic thoughts on TZP or math? You apparently consider them less likely to be the Grinch than BDS, so why?

Both made one post, TZP's had nothing of substance. Math's had a mechanical question and some vague words. BDS's posts have a lot more content but not the substance to go with that, which I why I suspect him more.

I would place them between BDS and THC in a suspicion list along with Toby and Xiao

[Oricorio]

Both made one post, TZP's had nothing of substance. Math's had a mechanical question and some vague words. BDS's posts have a lot more content but not the substance to go with that, which I why I suspect him more.

I would place them between BDS and THC in a suspicion list along with Toby and Xiao

So I guess you're accusing BDS of fluffposting, then? I mean, it is a possibility that the Grinch or Grandma could try to be hiding, then again the same could be true of the PRs

Also, I take it that THC is your only real townlean?

[davy]

So I guess you're accusing BDS of fluffposting, then? I mean, it is a possibility that the Grinch or Grandma could try to be hiding, then again the same could be true of the PRs

I guess? Not very familiar with the term, but it sounds like what the gist of my argument is.

Also, I take it that THC is your only real townlean?

Yeah, apart from myself obvly. Everyone else is either neutral or wolf/grandma lean.

[SpecsFlyer17]

TWG CXX: Lynch the Grynch



Teams:
1. The Grinch

2. Santa Claus
3. Rudolph
4. Frosty the Snowman
5. Elf
6. Elf
7. Ebenezer Scrooge

8. Grandma (who got run over a reindeer)


Role Descriptions:
Grinch: He hates Christmas so much so that each night, he selects one player to be put on the "naughty list". The following day, that player's vote will not count. This list is cumulative. The Grinch will be informed if the player was successfully added to the naughty list or not. Also, if he places Santa on the naughty list, the Grinch will become seer colored green, and Santa will lose the ability to place a player on the nice list. Also has a seer ability, which can be used each night.

Santa Claus: Each night, Santa selects one player to be on the "nice list". If that player is on the naughty list, they are removed from the list but can be placed on the naughty list later. If the player was not on the naughty list, they are immune from being placed on the naughty list for the rest of the game. Cannot select himself, however the ability can be used once more while dead if Santa dies.
Rudolph: Lights up the night with his bright nose. Each night, he can submit one name to learn their color. Seer role.
Frosty the Snowman: A jolly, happy soul. He's pretty thicc, and his extra weight allows him to survive one wolfing without dying. Does not apply to lynching. Role PM says he's an Elf.
Elf: Just a normal elf.
Ebenezer Scrooge: Despite his harsh appearance, Scrooge has rediscovered the true meaning and spirit of Christmas. Unfortunately, he will flag red if seer'd by Rudolph. Role PM says he's an Elf.

Grandma (who got run over by a reindeer): Or at least she's trying to. Her goal is to be lynched by D2. If she is successful in doing so, one random player who voted from her will also be run over by the reindeer (killed), although the Grinch cannot die via this method (unless no one else voted for Grandma). If she fails to be lynched by D2, she loses and is removed from the game. Cannot be wolfed; a wolfing attempt against her will fail. The game does NOT end if Grandma wins or loses.

Other Rules:
N1 start.
24hr nights, 48hr days (a time extension may be implemented over Christmas, Boxing Day, New Years on a case-by-case basis).
No cardflips.
Vote totals will not be published, just the lynched player (and whether or not it was a KitB).
No instas, phantoms will be awarded for failure to vote.
PMs are permitted, just keep the host included.
If the same player is selected by the Grinch and Santa on a given night, they are placed on the naughty list and then subsequently removed. They can be placed on the naughty list on subsequent nights. The Grinch will still be informed that their power worked, since the player was placed on the naughty list, then taken off it.
If a wolfing fails, a "wolfing failed" message will be announced. If the Grinch doesn't wolf anyone, a "no wolfing" message will be announced.
If the Grinch places Santa on the naughty list, the grinch will be informed and Santa's action's will be voided that night.
If Santa is wolfed, his action that night does not count as his one "dead" action.
Added: If the Grinch correctly guesses Santa and is Seer'd by Rudolph that night, the result will be green.
Added: If a day occurs where the best the town can force is a KitB (due to votes not counting), the Grinch will win (example: 2v1 where one townie is on the naughty list).
Added: For all deaths, a short death post is permitted, provided no gameplay, strategy, etc is share.

Win Conditions:
Grinch: Achieve parity (1v1), or force a situation where the best the town can do is a KitB.
Town: Lynch the Grinch.
Grandma: Get lynched by D2.

Role PMs

Spoiler

I wouldn't touch you with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole! You are the Grinch. Each night, submit a player to be placed on the naughty list and submit a player to be seer'd. The results of both actions will be returned at the end of the night phase. Also, submit a player to be wolfed. You win by achieving wolf/town parity, which is 1v1 in this game.

Ho Ho Ho! You are Santa Claus. Each night, submit a player (besides yourself) to be placed on the nice list. If you are killed, you can still place one more player on the nice list during a subsequent night. If the Grinch places you on the naughty list, you lose your power. Ho ho ho!

Lol your nose is red??? You must be Rudolph. Each night, submit a player to be seer'd. The result will be returned to you at the end of the night phase.

'sup shorty. You're an Elf. Find that Grinch and get him out of here! However, you could be Frosty the Snowman or Ebenezer Scrooge (admittedly that makes no sense, but just go with it).

(cue music) Grandma tried to get run over by a reindeer! You are Grandma, and your goal is to get lynched by D2, which is the game equivalent of being ran over. You don't have to worry about getting wolfed, but you will be removed from the game if you don't get lynched by D2. If you are lynched, a random player (besides the Grinch) who voted for you will also be run over by the reindeer (killed) with you. Your win condition does not affect the town/wolf win conditions.

[close]

Players
1. TheZeldaPianist
2. davy
3. BlackDragonSlayer
4. ThatHiddenCharacter
5. XiaoMigros
6. Oricorio
7. Toby
8. threalmathguy

The Grinching (wolfing) failed tonight.

D1 has begun, and will last until:
January 9th, 2023 
9:00p/2100 UTC
1:00p/1300 PST
3:00p/1500 CST
4:00p/1600 EST
10:00p/2200 CET

[Oricorio]

Well, that was lucky. Still doesn't change the math too much as F3 is still basically a wolf victory due to the unlikelyhood of both remaining townies being on the nice list

[davy]

So, the wolf hit Frosty or Grandma. I'm not sure if there's any way to use that info to deduce who is the grinch and who is either of the other roles...

So this guarantees the 2nd mislynch, right? That's very good news.

Though the possibility of the Grinch and Grandma teaming up now worries me...

Anyway, I'm off to sleep, see you all tomorrow.

Ninja'd by Oricorio: Ah, I guess I was a little too quick on my mislynch math there.

[Oricorio]

So, the wolf hit Frosty or Grandma. I'm not sure if there's any way to use that info to deduce who is the grinch and who is either of the other roles...

Probably not, as Frosty doesn't know who they are and Grandma claiming would go against their wincon

[TheZeldaPianist275]

Tough scene for the Grynch!

Davy it's likely but not guaranteed that we have two mislynches. Absolute worst case scenario is 1 wolf and 3 humans going into N3, which in a usual game would go to D3, but if a surviving human has been naughty-listed it'd go to the Grynch based on Specs' ref call there.

@SpecsFlyer17 what happens if Santa tries to nice-list the Grynch?

Oricorio, in your posts you've referred to a thunderdome and F3. What do those mean? Is F3 final three?

My thoughts on players so far:
I don't think Xiao, Toby, and Math being largely or completely MIA is alignment-indicative--not yet at least. I agree with the consensus that THC sounds slightly towny. I agree with the consensus that BDS sounds slightly wolfy. Davy and Oricorio are driving the discussion, and I disagree with Davy that Oricorio's Grandma-talk is reminscent of Oricorio's Strange Man-talk in TWG CXVII. In the postgame for that one, Oricorio pointed out that he was dropping a lot of pro-Strange Man propaganda, and he's doing the exact opposite in this one. I'd say he's more likely Grynch than Grandma, but I'd still lean town. Davy I'm not sure yet.