[N64] Pokémon Stadium 2 - "Stadium" by Fernman

[Zeta]

Submission Information:
Series: Pokémon
Game: Pokémon Stadium 2
Console: Nintendo 64
Title: Stadium
Instrumentation Solo Piano
Arranger: Fernman

[Fernman]

Moving this over from my personal arrangements thread.

I warmed up to Latios' suggestion in measures 5-8

I ask that the inversions in measures 1 through 4 stay as they are since that is what I hear in the treble staff which I brought down on octave,
I rearranged the beat 4 of m3 and 19 so it doesn't parallel the RH and instead sounds more march-y
Krititune suggested adding in more of the bass pattern in m9 - 15. I don't think that is possible since all my LH fingers are busy playing what's there.

Another countermelody begins in m17 that I excluded since I'm not sure how that is playable with everything currently being played. Krititune mentioned that page 2 sounds a bit empty. I agreed with that since the harp is playing in that section which goes all over the staff and I don't find that playable given what is currently written.

formatting-wise there is a ritardando on b2 of measure 7 which didn't transfer over from Musescore, and the 2 16th notes in m32 have the parenthesis around it in Musescore, but it didn't convert over, not to mention the placement of the dynamics is also off

I omitted some of the harmonics which make I find make it more difficult than necessary to play.

I'm open to improving the sheet, but if there are any breaking points do let me know.

[Bloop]

Here's a .mus with fixes of the things you mentioned that were off, as well as some other fixes:
-Removed the abbreviated .pno markings
-Updated the layout a bit (the staves where pretty close together)
-Added quotation marks on the title on the second page
-Put the New Bark Town part of the arranger credits in two lines so it doesn't creep up under the song title.

Here are a couple of first comments:
-Maybe instead of "Composition by:" you could do "Composed by", so it's consistent with the arranger credits?
-m1-6: I think you can add some of the harmony back in the R.H., without making it too hard to play: some examples would be m1 beat 1 and beat 4 (only the first note of beat 4), and m2 beat 1. These are places where the R.H. thumb has enough space and time to play a note.
-m3 and 19: There's some more stuff happening in the L.H. here:
You cannot view this attachment.
For easier playability, you could leave out the bottom note of any dyad.
-m9-12: I've been thinking about this section for a bit, but I'm still not sure what I'd do myself exactly haha. The thing I noticed is that some parts of the horn melody (currently in the L.H.) seem to be end up sounding secondary: some notes are missing in m11, the pickup at m8 beat 4 is missing too, and there seems to be some harmonic ambiguity in m10. Maybe instead of arranging the high strings in the R.H. and the horn melody in the L.H., you could arrange the horn in the R.H. and the lower strings (the accents) in the L.H.?
-m12: There's not Bb in the L.H. on beat 4, but there should be an An in the R.H. as pickup for the melody in m13.
-m24: The L.H. on beat 2.5 and 3 goes from Asus4 to A major, maybe you could write these chords as A-D-E going to A-C#-E?
-m28: The A on beat 4 in the R.H. should be an octave higher
-m25 and 27: You could write these dotted half notes as whole notes too, to fill up the bar. In m25 in the L.H., maybe using D instead of B will make the L.H. sound a bit more grounded.
-m26: Maybe you could use an A instead of an E for the snare drum hits, as that's the note that the low strings are playing?
-m28-32: I think you can add some bass notes here to fill up the empty space:
--m28: An A in a separate layer below the L.H.
--m29: a G an octave below the half note
--m30: an A a 5th below the L.H. in a separate layer as a half note
--m31: a G in a separate layer as a whole note
--m32: The bass note here should be A again, but you could also put the E of these chords in a separate layer as a whole note to fill up the bar

[Fernman]

Here's a .mus with fixes of the things you mentioned that were off, as well as some other fixes:

Thanks for the file, but it will only helpful up until there is something I can't do in notepad, which did happen, (the voicings at the end) So maybe all formatting can be left till the end. I went back to using my Musescore file.

-Maybe instead of "Composition by:" you could do "Composed by", so it's consistent with the arranger credits?

I did the opposite and said "Arrangement for piano by", so it sounds more formal.

-m1-6: I think you can add some of the harmony back in the R.H., without making it too hard to play: some examples would be m1 beat 1 and beat 4 (only the first note of beat 4), and m2 beat 1. These are places where the R.H. thumb has enough space and time to play a note.

I added it back into beat 1, and you got me thinking and actually pushing myself that I add more harmonics. It is playable/reachable for my handspan, it will just take some more practice to get it to tempo.

Edit: Thinking about this, while I was putting in some harmonics, the "issue" I found was that it sounds more harmonic/fuller at first, then it sounds empty and then back to fuller. So that is why I included more harmonics since it seemed "unbalanced" so to speak. I'm sure a pro can play it as written at tempo so maybe I'll just arrange it as such for purposes of NSM. Otherwise using the RH fingers 3-5 to on those 16th notes at tempo is quite a developed skill then jumping down at tempo requires practice to say the least.

-m3 and 19: There's some more stuff happening in the L.H. here:

Yes I'm aware of the descending bass, but I don't see a way to play it with what I have written. However, if you prefer it be included how about on the repeat (m19) I change the measures to be that bass pattern, and the subsequent measure would be changed to the bass pattern Latios initially suggested as it fits well. I rather keep the first instance of this the climbing notes since it makes it sound like you are entering a stadium.

For easier playability, you could leave out the bottom note of any dyad.

True, but I learned to play it that way so I'm fine with how it's written.

-m9-12: I've been thinking about this section for a bit, but I'm still not sure what I'd do myself exactly haha. The thing I noticed is that some parts of the horn melody (currently in the L.H.) seem to be end up sounding secondary: some notes are missing in m11, the pickup at m8 beat 4 is missing too, and there seems to be some harmonic ambiguity in m10. Maybe instead of arranging the high strings in the R.H. and the horn melody in the L.H., you could arrange the horn in the R.H. and the lower strings (the accents) in the L.H.?

I arranged it as you suggested. It sounds good, but I wouldn't personally emphasize the bass pattern string accents. I would rather have it be more melodic, but there are different ways of skinning the cat.
I omitted the An pickup on beat 4 in m8 since it overlaps with the climbing notes. This makes it more difficult to play and it will get lost anyway. or at least sound blurry with the rest of those notes.

In how it was arranged prior I'm not sure what you meant by harmonic ambiguity in this context and what that really presents (for lack of a better word) musically... unless you mean there is no clear chord present in the measure.

-m12: There's not Bb in the L.H. on beat 4, but there should be an An in the R.H. as pickup for the melody in m13. -m24: The L.H. on beat 2.5 and 3 goes from Asus4 to A major, maybe you could write these chords as A-D-E going to A-C#-E? -m28: The A on beat 4 in the R.H. should be an octave higher -m25 and 27: You could write these dotted half notes as whole notes too, to fill up the bar. In m25 in the L.H., maybe using D instead of B will make the L.H. sound a bit more grounded.

These are fixed
I did however add another A in the base on beat 4 of m12 just so it doesn't sound empty with only the RH playing

-m26: Maybe you could use an A instead of an E for the snare drum hits, as that's the note that the low strings are playing?

I hear what you are pointing out, but I like the E because the snare sounds different from the rest of the pitched instruments. The E gives it a different texture I guess.

-m28-32: I think you can add some bass notes here to fill up the empty space: --m28: An A in a separate layer below the L.H. --m29: a G an octave below the half note --m30: an A a 5th below the L.H. in a separate layer as a half note --m31: a G in a separate layer as a whole note --m32: The bass note here should be A again, but you could also put the E of these chords in a separate layer as a whole note to fill up the bar

m29 I also hear a low d after the G on beat 2.5, so I brought that up an octave. Though I must say to play that low G I have to pick finger 5 part way through to get to the D.
Fixed

Oddly a stacatto on m21 beat 1 RH is appearing below the notes.... Let's fix that at the end of the second review.

[Bloop]

Thanks for the file, but it will only helpful up until there is something I can't do in notepad, which did happen, (the voicings at the end) So maybe all formatting can be left till the end. I went back to using my Musescore file.

I thought working in different layers was possible in notepad too, at least in two layers? Anyway yeah, probably best to leave the total formatting for the end ^^

I did the opposite and said "Arrangement for piano by", so it sounds more formal.

That works too! In that case, I think it looks a bit better to at least remove the colon in the composer box, or add it to both arranger sections too, again for consistency

I added it back into beat 1, and you got me thinking and actually pushing myself that I add more harmonics. It is playable/reachable for my handspan, it will just take some more practice to get it to tempo.

This was pretty much what I came up with as well, lookin good!

Edit: Thinking about this, while I was putting in some harmonics, the "issue" I found was that it sounds more harmonic/fuller at first, then it sounds empty and then back to fuller. So that is why I included more harmonics since it seemed "unbalanced" so to speak. I'm sure a pro can play it as written at tempo so maybe I'll just arrange it as such for purposes of NSM. Otherwise using the RH fingers 3-5 to on those 16th notes at tempo is quite a developed skill then jumping down at tempo requires practice to say the least.

It's not a bad thing if something requires a bit of practice ^^ We usually try to find a good balance between playability and accuracy, and the player always has the freedom of leaving out a note or two if they so desire. In this case, I personally don't have any problem playing the 16th notes for example, so I'm assuming that with most players will be able to get there with too. You can also even play it with the 2nd to 4th finger even, if that feels a bit easier.

Yes I'm aware of the descending bass, but I don't see a way to play it with what I have written. However, if you prefer it be included how about on the repeat (m19) I change the measures to be that bass pattern, and the subsequent measure would be changed to the bass pattern Latios initially suggested as it fits well. I rather keep the first instance of this the climbing notes since it makes it sound like you are entering a stadium.

I actually wasn't referring to the bass pattern at all: you're able to see the screenshot I posted, right? The climbing strings play a bit more in beats 3.5-4.75, and your current beaming for beat 2.5-3 is incorrect. Arranging the bass the second time through is a nice touch though, I don't mind that! I do think I prefer it over the faster rising strings haha, but either or both is possible ^^

I arranged it as you suggested. It sounds good, but I wouldn't personally emphasize the bass pattern string accents. I would rather have it be more melodic, but there are different ways of skinning the cat.
I omitted the An pickup on beat 4 in m8 since it overlaps with the climbing notes. This makes it more difficult to play and it will get lost anyway. or at least sound blurry with the rest of those notes.

Yeah leaving out that An is alright, the harp run works similarly as a pickup to that B. You could even use cross-staffing to move the last B and C# in the m8 to the R.H., so it's easier for the L.H. to jump back down to the D-G and for the R.H. to get in there.

In how it was arranged prior I'm not sure what you meant by harmonic ambiguity in this context and what that really presents (for lack of a better word) musically... unless you mean there is no clear chord present in the measure.

With harmonic ambiguity I meant that there wasn't a clear difference between m9 and 10 harmonically, mostly because the G major and D major chords weren't that clearly outlined in the higher strings and horn. With these chords and the melody above, that difference is a lot more clearer, so this looks good now!
In m12, I'm not sure how I feel about the B and F# in the L.H.: together with the A on beat 2 in the R.H., it sounds like this is a Bm7 chord, but it should be something more like an Asus chord (i guess technically A6sus2? or Gmaj7 over A? anyway anything that sounds like a V in D major). The F# also clashes a bit with the G in the R.H. on beat 1. The alternatives don't sound as amazing to me either, but it's best to at least add an A on beat 1, and put the B and F# (or only one of them) in a separate layer that resolves to the C# and E (or only one of them, again).

I hear what you are pointing out, but I like the E because the snare sounds different from the rest of the pitched instruments. The E gives it a different texture I guess.

My main thinking was that harmonically, the A major chord in this bar is missing the A, which makes it sound less like A major. Maybe you could put E's an octave higher and put the A as a dotted half note in a separate layer?

m29 I also hear a low d after the G on beat 2.5, so I brought that up an octave. Though I must say to play that low G I have to pick finger 5 part way through to get to the D.

Ah yeah that's right, looks good!

[Fernman]

That works too! In that case, I think it looks a bit better to at least remove the colon in the composer box, or add it to both arranger sections too, again for consistency

Fixed

It's not a bad thing if something requires a bit of practice ^^ We usually try to find a good balance between playability and accuracy, and the player always has the freedom of leaving out a note or two if they so desire. In this case, I personally don't have any problem playing the 16th notes for example, so I'm assuming that with most players will be able to get there with too. You can also even play it with the 2nd to 4th finger even, if that feels a bit easier.

Given my octave hand span I got a cramp/pain in the back of my hand when I first tried using fingers 2-4 on the 16ths. I guess I just need to work on my finger strength. I'm sure others can play it as you mentioned.

I actually wasn't referring to the bass pattern at all: you're able to see the screenshot I posted, right? The climbing strings play a bit more in beats 3.5-4.75, and your current beaming for beat 2.5-3 is incorrect. Arranging the bass the second time through is a nice touch though, I don't mind that! I do think I prefer it over the faster rising strings haha, but either or both is possible ^^

Oh now I follow, I glanced at it, I prefer to have it simplified the way I had it for easier playability. but since the difficulty is increased already I'll add it.

Yeah leaving out that An is alright, the harp run works similarly as a pickup to that B. You could even use cross-staffing to move the last B and C# in the m8 to the R.H., so it's easier for the L.H. to jump back down to the D-G and for the R.H. to get in there.

Adjusted. I added a B at the bottom of the LH chord, even though the RH plays it.

In m12, I'm not sure how I feel about the B and F# in the L.H.: together with the A on beat 2 in the R.H., it sounds like this is a Bm7 chord, but it should be something more like an Asus chord (i guess technically A6sus2? or Gmaj7 over A? anyway anything that sounds like a V in D major). The F# also clashes a bit with the G in the R.H. on beat 1. The alternatives don't sound as amazing to me either, but it's best to at least add an A on beat 1, and put the B and F# (or only one of them) in a separate layer that resolves to the C# and E (or only one of them, again).

Theory wise I get what you are saying that before m13 starts a new phrase, m12 has to come to a close

My main thinking was that harmonically, the A major chord in this bar is missing the A, which makes it sound less like A major. Maybe you could put E's an octave higher and put the A as a dotted half note in a separate layer?

I added the A in another layer in LH. I rather keep the E where it is since it sounds ungrounded an octave higher.

[Bloop]

I added the A in another layer in LH. I rather keep the E where it is since it sounds ungrounded an octave higher.

It's at least better than no A, but I still feel like putting the E's an octave higher sounds better ;p I put my reasoning below, but if you really prefer the E's where they are right now, I'm alright with approving! There's of course still some formatting things left to do, but those are best taken care of at the end.

explanation on why not e below

Putting the E below still changes the quality of the chord: we usually hear the chord in relation to the lowest note, which is why in D major for example, a D major with a D in the bass sounds very different than a D major chord with an A in the bass. The former is used as a point of rest (tonic chord), but the latter is used in cadences moving towards a point of tension (subdominant), for example as D/A, A7, D. Another reason why I prefer the E's not being too low, is that the snare drum itself isn't a very low tuned percussion, it's more tuned towards the middle range.

[close]

[Bloop]

Ah, seems I didn't notice that you updated your files! The layers in m26's L.H. could be switched around so that the E's have their stems pointing upwards, but I'll approve for now so another updater can take a look!

[Fernman]

Yes, I updated the sheet per your suggestion shortly after your January reply.

Since you said the magic word "approve"

I'm alright with approving!

I assumed it was moving to the next stage anyway so I didn't feel it necessary to post another reply that I made the change. Now I know to keep responding till I sill the blue approve.


I'll make sure it is fixed in the next update.

[Bloop]

Coming back to this for a bit, recently in the updater discord we had a little back and forth about whether formatting should be fixed before accepting or before approving. We decided to do so before approving, as an approval essentually means that an updaters think the sheet is fully able to be uploaded to the site. At the accept stage it's best to work together on what things you're able to fix yourself in notepad, and what things an updater will need to fix.
Anyway, apparently the current .mus file has the contents of your star fox versus select sheet. Could you upload the correct .mus file? Then I can go ahead and fix the formatting things that were left ^^

[Fernman]

Woops! sorry about that. the correct file is uploaded now.

FYI though, since I'm using the latest Musescore 4.2.x the XML cleaner is now giving me an error.
"XML error in file [file name] at line 66 Attribute "type" with value "grace-cue" must have a value from the list "cue grace large"
Everything still imports well, but the file name didn't carry over prompting me to make this file name mistake since I have to do it manually. I'll pay more attention though.

[Bloop]

Updated the files with fixed formatting! Now I can definitely approve ^^

[Kricketune54]

• Pickup measure I don't think there's a real rule on this but typically the dynamic aligns with the first notes, not necessarily the first beats (rests in this case)
• m1 and other places, RH when you have multiple layers, typically the preference is to align the staccato over the notehead and not over note stem. But it's a preference, I can't remember if you've been asked before, but I can make this change for you if you'd like (don't think you can in NotePad)

• m2 and m18 RH beat 1.0 might've said this before but staccato dotted 8th notes are not typically used, as they are a bit ambiguous as far as length goes. Usually, these are written as staccato 8th, followed by a 16th rest or an 8th note without a staccato and a 16th rest
• m4 and m20 RH beat 1.0 hearing this as same length as m2's beat 1, so whatever you want to do there you could for this measure too
• m8 LH 2.75 hearing Dn not En
• m13 RH 2.5 hearing this En tied to the En on 3.0
• m19 LH 1.0 sounds like a Bn, and 3.0 is Gn. Technically the low notes are only on 1.0 and 3.0 are half notes, but I think based off the line you're blending in, 4.0 should be an En as a result. I think you could also remove the staccatos here as well
• m24 LH 1.0 think the Dn could also go here like on 2.5.

• m25 RH the ottava could be adjusted a tiny bit. Typically the "8va" symbol lines up with the "8" a little ahead of the notehead, but the symbol is overall centered over the note. In it's current position, it looks like m24 4.0 should be underneath it as well.

Then, for the ending tail of the ottava, you could align that a bit closer to the last note it applies to as opposed to right up to where the ottava technically ends. Just a general formatting guidance, but please see the reference image for a visualization

• m27 RH in spots where two instruments play the same notes in the original, I sometimes like to reflect this by adding a lower octave. You could do this for beat 4, as well as at m31 beat 4 and m32 on beat 1 (dotted half note)
• m28 the cresc. could come down a little, and also doesn't have to extend all the way to the bar line. Maybe you could replaces the cresc. symbol with the cresc. text marking? it's kind of ambiguous as far as how long it's supposed to last. Is the forte in m32 intended to make the 2nd time through the arrangement after the repeat forte instead of mf?

[Fernman]

• Pickup measure I don't think there's a real rule on this but typically the dynamic aligns with the first notes, not necessarily the first beats (rests in this case)

now that I think about this, would it have been better that I made the pickup measure only a 1/8 instead of a 1/4. I can't make the change now in finale. That would have also avoided that placement of the mf.

• m2 and m18 RH beat 1.0 might've said this before but staccato dotted 8th notes are not typically used, as they are a bit ambiguous as far as length goes. Usually, these are written as staccato 8th, followed by a 16th rest or an 8th note without a staccato and a 16th rest

I don't have a musical reason to disagree with this, however I like the fact that it makes the music cleaner by having less stuff on the page. a dotted 8th and 16th are very recognizable compared to having a space in between.
When I tried changing this in notepad in finale, that music value/space where the rest would go disappear or I would lose space for the beat itself by using the eraser... I would effectively have to restart the measure from scratch and keep all the beats intact. is this how finale works or is there something else I should be doing? This is nothing like Musescore.
Any way you could fix this with all the formatting?

• m4 and m20 RH beat 1.0 hearing this as same length as m2's beat 1, so whatever you want to do there you could for this measure too

I think this is the same as the above comment the dotted eight?

• m8 LH 2.75 hearing Dn not En

No, I hear the En

• m13 RH 2.5 hearing this En tied to the En on 3.0

No, I hear it rearticulated as it is written

• m19 LH 1.0 sounds like a Bn, and 3.0 is Gn. Technically the low notes are only on 1.0 and 3.0 are half notes, but I think based off the line you're blending in, 4.0 should be an En as a result. I think you could also remove the staccatos here as well

The LH Tuba line should be the same as the start of the song, but it is much clearer sounding at the start. I hear it as it is written and it sounds Staccato'd. This gives it a march-y feel. The notes being only detached doesn't have the same feel.

• m24 LH 1.0 think the Dn could also go here like on 2.5.

Added

• m27 RH in spots where two instruments play the same notes in the original, I sometimes like to reflect this by adding a lower octave. You could do this for beat 4, as well as at m31 beat 4 and m32 on beat 1 (dotted half note)

I hear you, but in this case it brings the tone of the song down more than my liking.

• m28 the cresc. could come down a little, and also doesn't have to extend all the way to the bar line. Maybe you could replaces the cresc. symbol with the cresc. text marking? it's kind of ambiguous as far as how long it's supposed to last. Is the forte in m32 intended to make the 2nd time through the arrangement after the repeat forte instead of mf?

I removed the forte since that was an old thought. I wanted the crescendo since it is natural to increase in dynamics climbing those notes and to the end of the song for a grand finish.
However, given the feedback from my Versus select arrangement that the crescendo has to go to the next level, in this case forte, then I'll pass. Not that I'm entirely opposed to it, but I rather remove the markings and leave it up to interpretation for NSM purposes. And the original I think is fairly even in dynamics in those measures.

Then, for the ending tail of the ottava, you could align that a bit closer to the last note it applies to as opposed to right up to where the ottava technically ends. Just a general formatting guidance, but please see the reference image for a visualization

I'm not sure if I can edit the 8va in notepad (if so let me know how), and this is interesting to know for the rest of my arranging. However since this is formatting could you handle this and the other stuff you pointed out please.

[Bloop]

• m2 and m18 RH beat 1.0 might've said this before but staccato dotted 8th notes are not typically used, as they are a bit ambiguous as far as length goes. Usually, these are written as staccato 8th, followed by a 16th rest or an 8th note without a staccato and a 16th rest

I don't have a musical reason to disagree with this, however I like the fact that it makes the music cleaner by having less stuff on the page. a dotted 8th and 16th are very recognizable compared to having a space in between.

For my personal take btw, I also use dotted 8ths with staccatos. My thinking is that staccato doesn't necessarily mean "50% of the note value", but rather "play this note short/detached". Also, the difference between a 32nd note in length won't make that much of a difference at this tempo. tl;dr it's fine as is ^^