Jompa's Compositions/Non-Video Game Related Arrangements/Performances

[Jompa]

Makes me wanna learn some jazz theory....

I wouldn't say there's any different theory to jazz than there is to any other music, because there really isn't.

[FireArrow]

As a good unknown composer on Youtube roughly said: Follow your ear if you want to compose. Don't learn too much theory too early. Improvise constantly. And so on.

The point is, you want learn jazz theory but you should try to learn improvise jazz and listen to jazz to analyze the pieces structually etc. And ofc do ear training (especially focused on jazz) but you are probably good at it already considering you arrange pieces.

I don't even know what a jazz scale is... so improvising jazz is a bit over my head. 

[Ricky]

I don't even know what a jazz scale is... so improvising jazz is a bit over my head. 

You don't need a jazz scale to play jazz although there probably are some specific scales in jazz. I would say using the modes can be enough. It's probably more about using different types of chord extensions and syncopated rhythms to make it sound like jazz but I don't know as I don't know much about jazz.

[Jompa]

Again, it's not the theory that makes it jazz.
Rythm and modes and stuff is used in all music.

"Jazz" is that wide music genre that more or less group together styles such as bossa nova or swing or boogeywoogey and so on.
The whole "point" of jazz is improvisation.
To create a piece of jazz you don't need any more than a simple progression, but there are characteristics that make it jazz, obviously.

So you don't need any "jazz-theory" to play or make jazz. It is about the way you execute it!

[FireArrow]

Now I'm more confused... D:
What makes jazz jazz? How do I execute something to make it Jazz?

Anyways, this is somewhat off-topic - I really liked your new composition Jompa!

[Ricky]

Again, it's not the theory that makes it jazz.
Rythm and modes and stuff is used in all music.

I didn't deny that. Ofc, it's used all over music. I was referring to the increased emphasis on syncopated rhythms and chord extensions (not to mentioned the general instrumentation).

"Jazz" is that wide music genre that more or less group together styles such as bossa nova or swing or boogeywoogey and so on.

You've got a point. It's like you can't group together a bunch of random classical pieces and say they are in the same style.

The whole "point" of jazz is improvisation.

How come there is written jazz then? I hope you don't think improvisation is limited to jazz or improvisation equals jazz. Obviously you can improvise in different classical styles (not to mention many great composers did improvise) and probably in pop and rock too.

To create a piece of jazz you don't need any more than a simple progression, but there are characteristics that make it jazz, obviously.

So you don't need any "jazz-theory" to play or make jazz. It is about the way you execute it!

Exactly what I was saying... Three of those characteristics are (if I'm not too wrong) more syncopated rhythms, the usual instrumentation and wider more frequent use of chord extensions. Like with any style, it's about how all the musical things relate to one another.

[Jompa]

My point was just that nothing you guys specified is any different to any other music. Syncopations are used in a lot more than just jazz, and there is jazz that don't use syncopations.

Now I'm more confused... D:
What makes jazz jazz? How do I execute something to make it jazz?

well, there are plenty of ways, as there are plenty of sub-genres - so to find out ways to make something jazz, you first have to listen to it.

[FireArrow]

so to find out ways to make something jazz, you first have to listen to it.

Wierd chords that sound amazing? I've got some listening to do...

[Ricky]

Syncopations are used in a lot more than just jazz

I didn't say syncopations were exclusive to jazz, I just said they appear more frequently in jazz (maybe I'm wrong though). Yes other music can be heavily syncopated too.

[Jompa]

Not like it's to big of a deal or anything, but you guys narrow jazz down a tiny little bit too much.

Wierd chords that sound amazing?

That really depends on how you view jazz. One of my favorite jazz pieces in the world is Too Good Too Bad. And there are literally only four different chords, and 3/4 of them are totally simple:
The scary chord in the wind instruments at the start and the beginning is a Bbm11 with a Cb in the bass - yes this is a weird chord, but it is only there to create tension and noise, so it's not exactly theory. And it is not really a part of the progression anyways. And in my opinion a classical piece could pull this off as well.
And the rest of the chords in the song are Bbm, Eb9(major) and F7b9(b13). Notice that the Eb is in major - in minor the subdominant is usually in minor, but there is absolutely no rule saying it has to be - the reason it's in major in this song is because Too Good Too Bad is in dorian mode, which is just co-incidentally chosen by the composer. Well, these three chords are literally used in almost every single song in minor (though Eb is in major in this case), and I'm not talking about every single jazz-song in minor - I mean every single song in minor that has an exciting enough progression to use the dominant and the subdominant - which is basically is a lot of songs - jazz, classical or whatev.
And this song is jazz!!! Even if the chord progression is nothing special and the chords themselves aren't really exciting.
And this would still be jazz if it was performed by strings, and not a big band.

Everyone knows a jazz piece when they hear one - I think that would be my conclusion.
It's such a freaking wide genre.
I mean, this, this, this, this and this are all totally random examples of jazz, and even though they are so different, and fall under different sub-genres, AND borrow elements from different styles of other music - they are all obviously jazz.

[FSM-Reapr]

Everyone knows a jazz piece when they hear one - I think that would be my conclusion.
It's such a freaking wide genre.
I mean, this, this, this, this and this are all totally random examples of jazz, and even though they are so different, and fall under different sub-genres, AND borrow elements from different styles of other music - they are all obviously jazz.

Amazing examples, all of them.

It's good to know there's someone else here who appreciates jazz just like me. ilu Jompa

[FireArrow]

I guess I'll go and try to improvise some jazz - but it never sounds like jazz, just messed up classical. From what your saying, jazz doesn't have any rules to follow, which makes it really hard to get started.

[Jompa]

I guess I'll go and try to improvise some jazz - but it never sounds like jazz, just messed up classical. From what your saying, jazz doesn't have any rules to follow, which makes it really hard to get started.

Then why don't I give you some quick rules then?
Try this:
Play some bossa nova (for instance)- and then try to improvise - something cool about bossa nova is syncopated rythms - try using that.
If you need a bossa nova piece, you could use "Poffin" from Pokémon Diamond & Pearl, which was the first example I posted earlier. It is an extended version, so you can play along without having to restart the video all the time.
The chord progression is easy to join - it's kinda 251-infulenced, using some cool dominant(b9)(b13)-stuff. I think it is in C major, but you'll probably find out anyways. I have an arrangement of it if you think you would need that.

And then go over to something else if you want. You probably wanna wait with bebop, but that's fun too.

Just don't go to far about it - you won't learn anything if you don't know what you are doing - and yes you will learn by exploring new things, but this will only happen if you actually take time to understand what these new things are, instead of just rushing over them and accepting them as "messed-up classical". If some weird dissonance appears; try to understand why it sounded that way, because if you take it inn you will be able to use it when improvising or just even when composing or arranging. Ahh, I love music.

Amazing examples, all of them.

It's good to know there's someone else here who appreciates jazz just like me. ilu Jompa

ilu2 you sexy beast<3

[Ricky]

@Jompa, I get your point. You are right, it's kinda pointless to describe a music genre as wide as jazz by narrowing it down the way I tried to do. It wouldn't work for classical music either for example (which is way way wider I would say). Even pop music or rock is still too wide to narrow things down (although the instrumentation and length are two aspects which don't vary so much in pop music or rock). Ofc I can go into subgenres and sub-subgenres and try to narrow it down but it's kinda pointless anyways. Like a guy on Youtube said in a video (roughly): While it's comfortable for listeners to sort things into genres it's limiting for the artists or composers.

@FireArrow, I think you misunderstood him. What he was trying to say (I think) is that jazz is very wide and consists of many different subgenres. Basically the point is that you can try to get into specific subgenres and try to play in that style. I suggest you play around with modes and try find nice chords (diatonic or chromatic), melodies and rhythms that makes it feel like jazz to you. For example in C dorian you could try with a Cminor7-Fdominant7 progression or Cminor9 omit 7 - Fdominant7 which are two progressions I often use in dorian mode. You could also try watching some tutorials or read about jazz improvisation to get some ideas. Either way I don't improvise jazzy typically so I'm probably not the best person to be giving tips about it.

Edit: Jompa has some more concrete suggestions.

[Jompa]

I have some recordings of me playing the piano:
^please keep in mind: I'm not very good.

First here's a song from the visual novel and anime "Little Busters!"
The song is called "Two Sugars":

sheet music

^My arrangement for this can be found somewhere at animesheetmusic.proboards.com, which is a sheet music site created by Don (also known as WarioMan98). Not much is happening at the moment because of the pre-summer rush at school, but we will get back to work when we have time!

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And here is me playing "That Rainy Day" from "The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya":

sheet music

^My arrangement for this can also be found somewhere at animesheetmusic.proboards.com
Hell, I even have a full ensemble arrangement!

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